The Energon Pub

Tue May 04, 2010 1:51 pm

This is essentially an open letter to Hasbro and FunPub that I hope they will read and other members of the Transformer community will contribute to (and respond to).

For years now Botcon has been getting more and more expensive, making it harder and harder for the average person to attend. Though the price increases I am referring to have nothing to do with the prices of the actual toy exclusives, as that is a price increase I can live with. Especially since it is to be expected with today's faltering economy and rising costs of materials and labor. What I am actually more concerned with is the choice of official hotels that Funpublications has gotten itself into bed with, most likely for their own financial reasons (or gain).

It use to be that Botcon was always centrally located in some bust Metropolitan area that gave attendees the opportunity, or better yet the choice, of picking out a hotel that met their budgetary constraints or concerns. Hotels that didn't charge over 100 bucks a night like the Disney Hotels do. But the most recent convention location and choice of official hotel totally screws everyone out of making such a choice. For there is absolutely nothing withing walking distance of the official Botcon hotel, no bars, restaurants, movie theatres, fast food eateries, clubs or other hotels/motels for that matetr! Hence unless you want to rent a car or take several buses or pay for a taxi, you have to stay in that one hotel 24/7 which is not fair to anyone. Botcon could have been located in more central Orlando, Florida with a plethora of much more affordable hotels within walking distance, and Disney world/Epcot would still have been an option if people wanted to go. Especially since there are so many free shuttle services to and from Disney world/Epcot, that people could have stayed much further away than the Dolphin Hotels. In fact just being closer to Universal Studios Florida would have give everyone tons more hotel and entertainment options, especially during the evening.

Now I know that FunPub would like Botcon to be everyone's summer or main vacation plans for the year, but that is never going to be the case and it's just hubris on the part of FunPub to think such a thing. If I want a real vacation I will go to Europe, not the same rinky-dink towns and cities that Botcon has already taken place in the past. Most people travel to Botcon specifically to collect their favorite toys, see the Botcon guest and take a class or two, and that's pretty much it. They aren't really there for the scenery or tourist attractions. They want to get there cheaply, more importantly stay cheaply, buy their toys and then go home. Why should anyone spend close to $1,000 for less than a weeks stay in a hotel that they wont actually use! Think about it, most people only sleep and shower in their hotel to begin with, and the rest of the time they are at the convention.

This Botcon has already been extremely costly, both financially and emotionally since registration is still not up ( We have less than 2 months til Botcon, what are you people doing?!)! Nor have all the guests even been announced. Forcing people to stay in an very, very overpriced hotel is just adding further insult to injury. So please, please, please, make sure that the next Botcon is in an area surrounded by numerous hotel choices, so people don't have to pay through the nose unless they actually want to ( You have a year to make this work!). You have taken out all of the choice with this year's convention and that's not fair at all. The convention is really just to make the fans happy, and not yourselves. This year's convention really feels like you don't give a damn about anyone's feelings or concerns aside from your own.

P.S. I wont even go into how FunPub made a deal with certain hotel chains (who will go unnamed) so the official hotel always has to be a part of said chain, completely limiting future convention hotel choices for everyone. Just for the sake of kick-backs!

News Credits: 1082 · Thu May 13, 2010 12:26 pm

Hotel rewards I'm sure is because they are a business, and it makes sense to them to try to get discounts whenever possible, to make money to continue the club with.

News Credits: 3 · Thu May 13, 2010 2:33 pm

Nova, whileyou bring up some really good points, and i agree with you, keep i mind Hasbro and Fun Pub are cold hearted business who exist purely to make as much money as possible. we can say whatever we want and they just dont care.

why charge so much? because people will pay it. what if enough people threaten not to go? then Has/fun just wont do the convention. Its the old rock and a hard place scenario.

News Credits: 8 · Thu May 13, 2010 6:57 pm

Name_Violation wrote:Nova, whileyou bring up some really good points, and i agree with you, keep i mind Hasbro and Fun Pub are cold hearted business who exist purely to make as much money as possible. we can say whatever we want and they just dont care.

why charge so much? because people will pay it. what if enough people threaten not to go? then Has/fun just wont do the convention. Its the old rock and a hard place scenario.

This is...plain and simple...One of the most awesome replies ..EvaR!

I can totally se Has/FP pullin the plug if not enough people go..

I used to live in the orlando area and I'm very familiar with how Disney and some of what Nova says is very true..that's why i decided to stay with freinds about 45 minutes away..I would rather pay $5 bucks a day to park and gas and have the freedom to come and go as I please.. While alot of people don't have the luxury of this option , There are alternatives to paying the ridiculous Disney prices..Then again Nv hit the nail on the head, Once disney has you there..They WILL get your money..

Disney is evil..... :KREMZEEK:

News Credits: 668 · Thu May 13, 2010 8:34 pm

Name_Violation wrote:Nova, whileyou bring up some really good points, and i agree with you, keep i mind Hasbro and Fun Pub are cold hearted business who exist purely to make as much money as possible. we can say whatever we want and they just dont care.

why charge so much? because people will pay it. what if enough people threaten not to go? then Has/fun just wont do the convention. Its the old rock and a hard place scenario.

I've never gone, and I won't go. The price just isn't worth it. And hopefully, more people will have the same opinion and teach them a lesson.

Past a certain point, they're just gouging the customers/fanbase. Yes, they have to make a profit, but you can't tell me that their costs come close to what they make in return.

If they didn't make a profit, it wouldn't be worth doing. They're not doing this for love, it's for money, just like you said.

If the money dries up, so will their exorbitant prices.

News Credits: 1082 · Fri May 14, 2010 5:12 am

Autobot032 wrote:

If they didn't make a profit, it wouldn't be worth doing. They're not doing this for love, it's for money, just like you said.

I disagree, slightly. Many members of the TFCC, which used to be just the GI JOE club, which really was not official with HASBRO, are there because they love the TF brand and the GI JOE brand, and have loved it since they were kids.

It's also true about a lot of HASBRO's toy designers. They also do what they do because they have a relationship with the different brands from their childhoods.

HASBRO is a business yes. Since Funpub has been sucked in by HASBRO so we can have some official conventions with HASBRO resourced exclusives, it has become more so, BUT FUnpub does not exist solely to 'make a buck'. Most money they make is put back into the exclusives, the magazines, and the salaries of the full time staff.

Say what you will that something is wrong in the club, but it's not cold detachment from the brand.

Sorry, if that is not what you meant to say.

News Credits: 129 · Fri May 14, 2010 6:39 am

BotCon is too costly now and I agree with the OP for the most part.

The convention, while great, is simply not accessible to most fans anymore.

News Credits: 1 · Fri May 14, 2010 9:58 am

Honestly, just wait til it comes near you one year and then go. I would'nt pay to fly to some strange place to go to this.

Tue May 18, 2010 2:49 pm

My point was actually more to do with the incredibly hotel costs, rather than Botcon. I expect to pay money while I am at the convention itself. For the toy exclusives, for the classes, and for the toys in the dealers room. But what I do not want to pay for is needless hotel mark ups. Florida is full of hotels! Many of them for less than 100 bucks a night! They could have picked a convention center that is more central, that way everyone could have picked from literally over 100 hotels of all differnt prices! But FunPub had to pick a Disney Convention center and hotel, which is outlandishly priced! Disneyworld being so close to the official and overpriced hotel is not a perk or a plus! There are free shuttles and buses to and from Disneyworld from a multiple of locations and there is also Universal Studios Florida for that matter! Plus people are coming to Botcon for the Transformers toy line, not for Diseyworld Florida! BOTCON should never be considered people's summer vacation. No matter what you want to make it into, it simply is not! This is a convention to acquire toys that they love and collect-ONLY! So start listening to the fans and start picking areas where the fans will not be forced to stay in only one area and subsequently strangled by high priced hotel chains! An example of what to do would be Rhode Island. There were dozens of hotels to choose from at all different prices within waking distance of the convention center, so people could choose where they wanted to stay and what they wanted to pay! Even in Pasadena, Ca which is somewhat expensive compared to the rest of the United States still had more options than we were given with Botcon Florida! So please, please stop this nonsense! The focus should be on the fans being able to afford the convention and toys they love so dearly, not vacation spots! You can pick previous convention sites as well, if that will make things more affordable. Like I said the convention is about the toys, panels, classes, and special guests, not the actual locale! You could have it in a corn field and fans would still attend in droves as long as they could get cheap hotel rooms! No more limiting people's choices to hotels that are over 100 bucks a night! It's not fair and in these trying economic times you really need to consider this! A lot of people are not attending Botcon this year because of this reason and the fiasco with the registration! By the time it goes up, we will have a little more than one month to register! That's unacceptable!

News Credits: 402 · Updated Oct 21, 2022

To be fair, no one's forcing you to stay in the lavish hotels. There are plenty of Hotels probably within 10-15 minutes driving range that are way cheaper. The downside is you have to spend the time to research them.

The main reason that they choose these hotels is that they're large and they're either right near the convention centre or they contain the convention center ball rooms. They choose the expensive hotels because the cheap ones don't offer the facilities they need to host this properly.

I can understand your frustration at costs. I'm spending near 1,500 simply registering and going to this, and that's before I buy any additional toys to the box set!

Counterpunch wrote:The convention, while great, is simply not accessible to most fans anymore.

Yes, that's the sad truth.

If you can't go to Botcon, then I'd suggest looking to TFCon, which is cheaper to register for, and in a less costly hotel.

News Credits: 668 · Tue May 18, 2010 8:05 pm

Mkall wrote:If you can't go to Botcon, then I'd suggest looking to TFCon, which is cheaper to register for, and in a less costly hotel.

True, but should we have to?

This is supposed to be for the fans, not just the elite few who can gladly blow thousands of dollars over the course of a weekend.

There's absolutely no reason that Botcon should be this ridiculously priced. The dealer room, they have no control over, but the rest of it? C'mon. There's no reason for that. None.

And someone mentioned that if Hasbro and FunPublications couldn't make the money that they do, off of Botcon, they would just nix the whole thing. Well, maybe they should.

There's a big difference between making a profit and ripping someone blind.

And I know, I know, someone's going to say "Hey, I work hard, I make good money, why aren't I entitled to a convention with perks like this?" No one's saying you're not, but why are the rest of us not entitled to enjoy it?

There's no reason that a TOY convention should cost anyone the price of a down payment on a car just to attend and buy a few things. That's ridiculous!

Screw Botcon and their $1,000.00+ price tag. (Yeah, yeah, I know, you don't have to pay that price if you don't do everything, but who's going to want only half or a quarter of the experience?)

News Credits: 1082 · Tue May 18, 2010 8:13 pm

Actually, I dropped $600 tonight registering, and hotels will cost another 2-300, then there's the add on sets... not to mention eating, and gas for the car to get there.

It is overpriced to 'experience it'. To go barebones, it would be expensive, but doable...albeit much less fun, IMHO.

News Credits: 20 · Wed May 19, 2010 10:28 am

I find it really hard to relate to people complaining about the costs of going to a convention for toys. There are cheap ways to get to, attend and have fun at Botcon. With minimal research, you can cut costs by at least half or more, easily. No offense but why anyone feels this is owed them is beyond me. I'm really not trying to sound like a flaming jerkface. It isn't working.

News Credits: 20 · Wed May 19, 2010 10:47 am

Just some suggestions to go about making Botcon more affordable as a way of making up for my d***head post. Find a cheaper hotel. Ensure you'll have a refrigerator for your hotel room and hit a local grocer to cut back on food costs. Buy a second set to sell on the secondary market or the convention to recoup costs or use as trade fodder. Start looking at transportation months in advance for less expensive travel methods or cheaper airfare. If the attendee figures aren't really your thing, try simply attending on the general admission days. It's what? Between $15 and $30 per day, Saturday and Sunday?

I can't complain about the costs because I choose to accept that the convention and seeing acquaintances and friends I've made are so very worth it. We aren't looking at a drastic price increase this year as opposed to previous years. Even if we were, the figures, sets and add-ons are arguably bigger and better each year. I find this acceptable. I don't make truckloads of money myself but I definitely pick Botcon as my vacation of choice and plan my finances accordingly. To the best of my abilities, of course. It is MY responsibility to make sure I can attend and no one else's.

News Credits: 129 · Wed May 19, 2010 11:10 am

Flux,

Speaking for myself, when I say that the convention should be more affordable, I'm looking at it in comparison to the pre-FunPub days.

Now, FunPub does a great job during the four days of the convention, but I think the size and scope of the box sets (and the associated cost) is getting out of hand.

First, the sets started around $250, now they are over $300. First there were two small sets of attendee figures, then there were both large and small sets, then there were/are three sets...

I know there is value in what we purchase. I know I like what we get and I know I can afford it.

But I think that the convention is riding on a pricing and attendance scheme that is unsustainable.

Of course I love getting the toys, but I think that perhaps instead of the 12 figures from last year or the 14 or so from 2008, some of that could be reined in to allow for more financial freedom both in the hosting City and the dealer room.

News Credits: 20 · Wed May 19, 2010 11:33 am

I get what you're saying and I can certainly see reason but I don't agree in general. It's ok, I still love ya! Your point about the business model being unsustainable, in the current economy, I have to agree. For the convention that is. Of course, I know next to nothing of business. Although I can see and process basic logic. Personally, I love the toy overload that the figures have become. The costs associated with them? Not sooo much but I get where the costs come from. I'm hoping that some of the "extra" income they're making this year goes towards new online functionality for the club. I'd like to keep going but It's way past my bed time and my brain is shot out.

Just a thought, I would hate for Botcon to revert to anything pre FP. One or two marginally (read:not) interesting concepts and dinner plates do nothing for me. Having a theme, comic and a group a toys to work from is an entirely different animal to me. That keeps my interest and has since 2006.

News Credits: 129 · Wed May 19, 2010 11:40 am

I agree entirely, plates and unreliability are not what the convention should go back to.

It's all about the transforming toys we get there.

I think that it might be possible to have smaller sets, retain the quality that FP has put into them, and make it so that more people can attend.

Perhaps the numerical reality of what the convention costs would prove me wrong.

Who knows right now. I'm fully on board with buying the sets up until they move past the AEC and Classics toys...then I don't know.

News Credits: 668 · Wed May 19, 2010 1:09 pm

Counterpunch wrote:I agree entirely, plates and unreliability are not what the convention should go back to.

It's all about the transforming toys we get there.

I think that it might be possible to have smaller sets, retain the quality that FP has put into them, and make it so that more people can attend.

Perhaps the numerical reality of what the convention costs would prove me wrong.

Who knows right now. I'm fully on board with buying the sets up until they move past the AEC and Classics toys...then I don't know.

I don't mind them using Classics molds, but I'm a little tired of the A/E/C trilogy. I loved it, I really did, but this is a bit much.

I don't think they're allowed to use the movie toys, or at least not yet. But, what about RID or Beast Wars? Why not go back to some older molds, update them or something.

I know they'll never go back to using G1/G2 molds, though it would be nice. I think a real Pyro and Clench would make collectors salivate and fork over dough. The Piranicon set should've been a clue to them on that one.

EDIT: Thinking about Piranicon brings me back to the money issue. There was no reason people should've had to pay $120.00+ for that set, when you could buy an original for about $80.00 more. Maybe a little over, but still... Plus you had to get saddled with that stupid collector's club membership if you weren't already. I just don't find that to be fair.

If you're paying extra to offset the whole membership issue, why get stuck with something you don't want?

I wouldn't take a membership if you GAVE it to me. I most certainly don't want to pay for it just to enjoy these figures. Isn't that what paying the extra is all about?

News Credits: 129 · Wed May 19, 2010 1:17 pm

Autobot032 wrote:I don't mind them using Classics molds, but I'm a little tired of the A/E/C trilogy. I loved it, I really did, but this is a bit much.

I don't think they're allowed to use the movie toys, or at least not yet. But, what about RID or Beast Wars? Why not go back to some older molds, update them or something.

I know they'll never go back to using G1/G2 molds, though it would be nice. I think a real Pyro and Clench would make collectors salivate and fork over dough. The Piranicon set should've been a clue to them on that one.

Well, they did use RiD Megatron for Deathsaurus and they used that fuzor beast mold for Buzzsaw and the insecticons.

The RiD car brother molds are beyond repair. Prime and Magnus exceed the size they typically use. As far as molds that RiD has that are unique to it, we've got the train team and the build team left.

I'd be happy with the train team as...well, anything.

What I understand of how the mold selection process works is this:

BotCon looks to make a set. Tomy/Takara says, "These are the molds currently available for you to use." Then things go from there. I think that even if the Beast Wars molds still exist, that they are perhaps not accessible. (I know it sounds like crap to us, but really from what I've heard, these molds are big blocks of steel that are very, very poorly tracked after their use.)

News Credits: 668 · Wed May 19, 2010 1:28 pm

Counterpunch wrote:
Autobot032 wrote:I don't mind them using Classics molds, but I'm a little tired of the A/E/C trilogy. I loved it, I really did, but this is a bit much.

I don't think they're allowed to use the movie toys, or at least not yet. But, what about RID or Beast Wars? Why not go back to some older molds, update them or something.

I know they'll never go back to using G1/G2 molds, though it would be nice. I think a real Pyro and Clench would make collectors salivate and fork over dough. The Piranicon set should've been a clue to them on that one.

Well, they did use RiD Megatron for Deathsaurus and they used that fuzor beast mold for Buzzsaw and the insecticons.

The RiD car brother molds are beyond repair. Prime and Magnus exceed the size they typically use. As far as molds that RiD has that are unique to it, we've got the train team and the build team left.

I'd be happy with the train team as...well, anything.

What I understand of how the mold selection process works is this:

BotCon looks to make a set. Tomy/Takara says, "These are the molds currently available for you to use." Then things go from there. I think that even if the Beast Wars molds still exist, that they are perhaps not accessible. (I know it sounds like crap to us, but really from what I've heard, these molds are big blocks of steel that are very, very poorly tracked after their use.)

And get chewed up pretty quickly, due to overuse. Such as Voyager Class Optimus Prime from the movie verse. The repaints have taken their toll on the mold, because by the time I finally bought one, it was junk. Other people who bought one compared it to their original from the very first run and said it was definitely degradation.

So, yeah, I can definitely see them having a problem securing the use of old molds. And reverse engineering would not only be way too costly, but probably prohibited by their agreement with Hasbro/TakaraTomy.

Well, damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.

Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:28 pm

Some of you didn't get the gist of my original post or missed some of the points I was trying to make. The main cost of this years convention was the Disney hotel which you were essentially forced to stay at and pay their prices. Normally Botcon is located in an area where you have a choice of places to stay, like 10 or more, if you do not want to stay at the official Hotel. This years Botcon is located in a somewhat remote area of Orlando. Where you either have to stay at the convention Hotel or you have to drive to it every day. A lot of people fly to a different city each year just for Botcon, so they do not have their car. Making it necessary to rent a car, which would be expensive ( sometimes as much as a hotel stay), walk which would also no work, or take public transportation. Taking a bus is not really a valid option because of the time it would take to gt to and fro each day of the convention, though there are many free buses to Disney world so it is somewhat doable. Just a hassle and very time consuming like I said. Also there are no places to eat at the convention center, or near the Disney Hotels aside from their restaurants! You cannot even order pizza to be delivered to your room. So you either have to trek to a faraway store or you have to eat on the property, and that is going to be very, very expensive! When people get there, they will see how remote this convention center is compared to past ones!

Orlando has a lot of convention center sites, better ones than the one they chose for us. Which would have given everyone more opportunities to choose a cheaper or more affordable hotel. People could still go to Disney world or Universal, since their are free shuttles all over the place for that, and these are things they would do on their days off from the conetnion anyway(or before or after the con). This would have cut people's hotel and transportation costs by half at the very least! Like I said last year's con in Pasadena offered people tons of hotel choices, almost all of them were less than 100 bucks a night and still within walking distance of the actual convention center!

I do not mind paying so much for the registration or the toys themselves, as production costs go up and up and workers need to be paid. It is just the fact that better decisions could and should be made in regards to the various official convention center location and official hotels that they have chosen that really bugs me! FunPub has locked themselves or climbed into bed with certain hotel chains and will always pick their future locations based on their hotel deals in the area so they can get their kickbacks, and that just screws over the fans. Most people are already paying around $400 for the toys and registering, at least $400 for a plane flight, and then close to $1,000 for a week in an overpriced hotel. Not to mention whatever they spend on merchandise at the convention, food, drinks and going out. Your hotel stay should never be the most expensive thing you buy at Botcon, but it certainly has become that! Now can people understand my point? Next year's Botcon needs to be more centrally located, so people have a real choice of hotels! Do not force people to stay where you would like them to stay, or where you can make the most profit! Providence Rhode Island was a good place for the convention, tons of cheap hotels in walking distance, and you could take trips to Hasbro for a tour as well as take a train into Boston and see Harvard if you wanted to.

News Credits: 2 · Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:50 am

To give Botcon their dues, it IS very hard to find a convention venue that is large enough to hold your expected attendance AND have all the on-site facilities that you need. For Auto Assembly, to the best of my knowledge there are now only three hotels in Birmingham large enough to accommodate us! Of those, one is is a location that is too car-dependent, and one is - in my opinion - too far away from fast food restaurants and general facilities / cash points etc so there is only really one choice at our current event size.

In terms of our city of choice, Birmingham is the perfect location as it's central to the UK, has excellent road and rail access to the entire country, has an airport and has a fantastic local public transport system. I have been asked over the years to relocate to other cities or to occasionally hold it elsewhere but it's simply not workable.

In terms of cost for attending Botcon, I do appreciate how much the flight / attending costs can soar though, especially if you do want to experience the whole event. That's another reason why we offer a fixed all-inclusive ticket price and we've worked out that people can attend from all over the world for no more than around $1,500 (flights, registration AND hotel!).

Okay, we don't have exclusive toys, but at least with the pound being in a fairly weak state right now, your dollar stretches a lot further while you're here! lol

Simon

Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:20 pm

Wait I could have flown from Los Angeles to England, and gotten a hotel and conventionn for only $1,500?! Are you sure about that? As I will come next year for the hell of it if you actually charge that, as I can just go around England and see my friends there...How many days in a hotel and isn't Birmingham kind of rough, or some places in Birmingham?

News Credits: 2 · Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:49 am

Novascream wrote:Wait I could have flown from Los Angeles to England, and gotten a hotel and conventionn for only $1,500?! Are you sure about that? As I will come next year for the hell of it if you actually charge that, as I can just go around England and see my friends there...How many days in a hotel and isn't Birmingham kind of rough, or some places in Birmingham?

Yup!

A quick check on Expedia shows flights to Birmingham From Los Angeles costing around $1,200 (working a a departure date of 12th August and heading home on 16th although I'd guess it would be the same if you varied the dates). At the current exchange rate, registration for the convention works out at about $70 leaving you $250 to cover your hotel bill. There is a hotel a couple of minutes walk from the Holiday Inn Birmingham City Centre that costs around £50 a night so that would work out at £150 (or about $220) so you'd have change from $1,500!

Like all cities everywhere in the world, Birmingham has it's good and bad parts BUT it is a big city with a population of about 5 million people spread over quite a large area but I think it's the same with anywhere - you never hear news reports about nothing bad happening, just the negative!

Simon