The Energon Pub

EunuchRon wrote:Way too much harsh in here dudes! Some vids got taken down and people are going all Dinobot rampage. Why don't we all just chill and watch da movie till we kno what's goin' on? U know, facts an stuff?

I like facts. I also LOVE your handle.

megatronus wrote:

EunuchRon wrote:Way too much harsh in here dudes! Some vids got taken down and people are going all Dinobot rampage. Why don't we all just chill and watch da movie till we kno what's goin' on? U know, facts an stuff?

I like facts. I also LOVE your handle.

Thanks, dude!

EunuchRon wrote:

megatronus wrote:

EunuchRon wrote:Way too much harsh in here dudes! Some vids got taken down and people are going all Dinobot rampage. Why don't we all just chill and watch da movie till we kno what's goin' on? U know, facts an stuff?

I like facts. I also LOVE your handle.

Thanks, dude!

Yeah jeez Ron ya really neutered the burning fan debate in here.

I wouldn’t debate this with people who didn’t love Transformers. We all always win because we all love Transformers this is just fun debate on top of that first fact

This shouldn’t even be news to be honest because 1. It’s 3rd party related and 2. It’s all speculation that’s accusing Hasbro of doing something with zero evidence. Again this shouldn’t be news

Randomhero wrote:This shouldn’t even be news to be honest because 1. It’s 3rd party related and 2. It’s all speculation that’s accusing Hasbro of doing something with zero evidence. Again this shouldn’t be news

I see your point. I really did try to write from a neutral stance and only went with what we all know. Anything I said beyond that I really tried to state it was speculation. If I need to temper that tone in my writing then note taken and I appreciate the input.

When I’m wrong I eat my words. If I’m wrong or overstepped with my speculation trust me it will be addressed.

Ironhidensh wrote:Hasbro loyalists and 3rd party fans have argued this same tired argument since the 3rd party thing started, and we probably always will.

FIRRIB / FIBRIR anyone?
Movie VS Classics anyone?

Internet fights seem to be on an eternal loop. And if it's not one thing, it's the other. Like death and taxes, it's an inevitability.

megatronus wrote:

YRQRM0 wrote:If this is true...

I get Hasbro has the right and respect that. But a lot of us were a bit disappointed in Haslab Unicron to begin with, pointing out that indeed the kibble could be managed better, not many features, etc. Some people were acting like this was nonsense, but the Zeta one proved you could do better imo, even if they fell short in some areas like the planet mode.

I was going to buy Haslab until I saw Zeta, and I'm sure not going back to Haslab now just because Zeta isn't available anymore. If that's what they're hoping for (it must be), I think that's ridiculous and greedy. They've already lost to many 3P designs and this was just one more that they should have accepted.

Translation: “Dear Hasbro, I know this hurts but I benefit so you should be cool with it.”

Why is it greedy for Hasbro to want to protect their property and enforce their copyright, but not greedy of Zeta to totally rip it off without paying dues or licensing fees?

You're right, it's totally greedy on 3P part to do what they do to begin with. But Hasbro has kinda set a precedent of turning the other way with this sort of thing. It would be like an artist letting everyone cover their songs, then they have 1 new lead single and suddenly strike down every cover someone makes.

I respect that Hasbro has the legal rights here, but I also appreciate the 3P market because it gives options. Star Wars fans enjoy Hasbro offerings, Disney, Bandai, Figuarts, etc. 3P is usually the pleasant market copmpetition/variety. So yeah, Hasbro has the rights, but I don't think any of us would complain if it became a legal reality that other companies could make figures for us to choose from, too. That's basically what 3P has been...just without the legal part.

None of us work at Hasbro so none of us can really talk about whether the price is right, how long the 18-month lead time really is for a design like this, etc. Personally, I feel that it's not that impressive. The price feels a bit high, the engineering doesn't seem all that amazing (the chest doesn't even attempt to be part of the transformation), the features are lacking, etc. Again, I don't wanna argue this because none of us work there or design transformers for a living, but that's my initial impression. With that initial impression, seeing them strike down a more reasonably-priced design that way more ingenuity went into feels greedy, so that's why I said that.

Stargrave wrote:

Randomhero wrote:This shouldn’t even be news to be honest because 1. It’s 3rd party related and 2. It’s all speculation that’s accusing Hasbro of doing something with zero evidence. Again this shouldn’t be news

I see your point. I really did try to write from a neutral stance and only went with what we all know. Anything I said beyond that I really tried to state it was speculation. If I need to temper that tone in my writing then note taken and I appreciate the input.

When I’m wrong I eat my words. If I’m wrong or overstepped with my speculation trust me it will be addressed.

Well look what’s already happening. People here are screaming hate at hasbro and your article has wound up on Zetas unicrons thread at tfw2005 where more people are spreading their anger and hatred at hasbro, haslab, and their unicron all because you’re accusing hasbro of something with zero proof. You’ve opened a Pandora’s box and tossed it on the front page of one of the biggest transformers fans sites all based on your theory and opinion of something that has zero backing

I mean look at the responses here from this. Also this site doesn’t cover news on 3rd parties.

I’m torn on this for sure.

However - Mayne Hasbro should make trash and charge $700 for it. That’s the only reason why I was excited for Zeta.

megatronus wrote:

PadForce wrote:

megatronus wrote:

YRQRM0 wrote:If this is true...
I would translate HasLab crowdfunding as: "Hey, we invested 18 months of R&D into this cool thing. Do you want this cool thing at X price that makes it worth it for us to produce? If you do, great, we'll make it! If not, I'm sorry, we can't."

PRECISELY

Stargrave wrote:

Randomhero wrote:This shouldn’t even be news to be honest because 1. It’s 3rd party related and 2. It’s all speculation that’s accusing Hasbro of doing something with zero evidence. Again this shouldn’t be news

I see your point. I really did try to write from a neutral stance and only went with what we all know. Anything I said beyond that I really tried to state it was speculation. If I need to temper that tone in my writing then note taken and I appreciate the input.

When I’m wrong I eat my words. If I’m wrong or overstepped with my speculation trust me it will be addressed.

The fact that the video was "copystricken" by Hasbro, Inc. themselves says plenty. Mind you, the strike system was originally meant to avoid video piracy I believe, of which there's no such case here and could be overturned... were it not for the position Zeta Toys is in in the grand scheme of things. Someone may have to give the Terms and Conditions a lookover.

It's true that Hasbro isn't really the type to actively hunt down "IP-fringing companies" unless certain boundaries have been crossed, and the companies themselves (not the reviewers) advertising their product on a major outlet like YouTube is apparently one of those boundaries. It's the first time I've seen such promotions happening, actually, and more importantly, Hasbro actually doing something to thwart them, dubious as the manner may be.

Yes, Hasbro took a stance with that video. That's all we know for sure. And it's possible that's all they did. Zeta Toys may have gotten cold feet and pulled out once Hasbro showed its legal fangs (maybe with a Cease and Desist on top). Who wouldn't, especially if you knew you were handling assets that your company is not the owner of, or were even licensed to you to use?

Crosscheck wrote:By the way, given that Zeta used the actual name Unicron in some of their promotional material, don't think for a second that the Chinese government won't come knocking at their door. Dragon Momoko, a 3P Gundam model company was taken down for that sort of thing. 3 years in prison and a hefty fine is that they got.

Dragon Momoko did plenty of actual KOs so not quite the same. Using the name "Unicron" is the mistake here, that takes things into trademark territory which also means Hasbro would, in theory, have to take some action.

Randomhero wrote:

Stargrave wrote:

Randomhero wrote:This shouldn’t even be news to be honest because 1. It’s 3rd party related and 2. It’s all speculation that’s accusing Hasbro of doing something with zero evidence. Again this shouldn’t be news

I see your point. I really did try to write from a neutral stance and only went with what we all know. Anything I said beyond that I really tried to state it was speculation. If I need to temper that tone in my writing then note taken and I appreciate the input.

When I’m wrong I eat my words. If I’m wrong or overstepped with my speculation trust me it will be addressed.

Well look what’s already happening. People here are screaming hate at hasbro and your article has wound up on Zetas unicrons thread at tfw2005 where more people are spreading their anger and hatred at hasbro, haslab, and their unicron all because you’re accusing hasbro of something with zero proof. You’ve opened a Pandora’s box and tossed it on the front page of one of the biggest transformers fans sites all based on your theory and opinion of something that has zero backing

I mean look at the responses here from this. Also this site doesn’t cover news on 3rd parties.

I see many positive responses in fact I think they’re currently out arguing the negative ones in volume and logic. I think using terms like Pandora’s box is over dramatic and saying this is an article that focuses on a 3rd party product again makes it appear you didn’t read or look at the article.

i bet the rest of those third party guys are sweating right now. i am not saying there are no cool looking 3p products out there. but i always go official hasbro product over 3p every time.

griftimus prime wrote:i bet the rest of those third party guys are sweating right now. i am not saying there are no cool looking 3p products out there. but i always go official hasbro product over 3p every time.

No sweating. They didn't put the word Unicron in a video.

3P haters are rejoicing...rejoicing a false negative. 3P is here to stay and Hastak uses them for designs too. No one cares if you by official product or not. This is not about your buing preferences. This is specualtion as to whether Hasbro went after Zeta for Unicron at all. Until I get an actual official word about the situation I'll just sit back and read these comments.

He’s right I’m sure none of the other 3p’s have their own version they were ready to crank out. I’m sure they’re not affected.

And they won’t worry about using names like not-insert name here, because they don’t have to think twice now. Because, pshh, don’t gotta.

And I mean the 3P companies can all trust every video reviewer out there to use the right-wrong name especially now, ah they won’t make a mistake and post the wrong name you can trust all of them.

It’ll all be fine.

Wait, what?

bvzxa wrote:3P haters are rejoicing...rejoicing a false negative. 3P is here to stay and Hastak uses them for designs too. No one cares if you by official product or not. This is not about your buing preferences. This is specualtion as to whether Hasbro went after Zeta for Unicron at all. Until I get an actual official word about the situation I'll just sit back and read these comments.

I don't think they're going to go after them. I'm not sure that to support Hasbro =/= "3P haters," either. In MY case, I'm sure of it.

It also remains to be said I'm not buying a Unicron, so either way this is an intellectual discussion for me. As I suspect it is for many.

I don't care for 3P, but then again [currently] Takara are catering to what I want, via the MP Beast Wars line. I have no interest in any of their other lines, barring the odd figure IE the New Scorponok, to complete my city bots and the chance of a near mythical MP Galvatron release. In fact I questioned in the past, how 3P can be allowed to exist at all? Yet I did eventually see why it exists. Because HasTak has no interest in fully updating their entire line. A friend of mine has the MP [equivalent] Monsterbots. The chances of Takara even getting to them in the MP line? Negligible. Zeta Toys recently announced they are doing the same for Raiden. Another set HasTak has no intention of doing anything with. In instances like that, I can see the merit of 3P. Aiming to fulfil the desires of fans who want someone beyond the same dozen or so characters.

This Unicron is contentious. As I've stated before, the engineering of the Zeta Toy isn't beyond HasTak IE No backpack, actual calves. They just didn't want to do it. In fact, kibble positioning on their offering gives us an upscaled and modernised Armada Unicron design, with a more G1 aesthetic. That is what they wanted to produce.
They saw someone else doing one with such ideas that they didn't implement and that it garnered positive fan reaction, outside of the most staunch brand loyalists. Deciding in this instance to try to pull the plug. Baring their teeth, only when it suits them.

Either way, this whole affair was polarising long before Zetacron was announced. So many differing groups and stances. The near rabid supporters, the detractors of the price, the detractors of the design and those that don't see why a Mega Corporation should need crowd funding at all.
Given it is typically a platform for The Little Guy. One who couldn't achieve their product via their own resources. Other than, to test the water for Highest End figures-on-demand, of course.
Which is a dangerous road to go down.

I have to wonder, all those people who are pro-3P, how would you react in such a scenario?

You spend hours ... days ... months ... years creating something and it turns out to be a success and you make a bit of money out of it. All that hard work has paid off!

Someone else sees your success and decides to improve on it without talking to you, their product, based on your creation, is a success, they make money on it, thanks to your hard work and theirs it has paid off and THEY have profitted from it and you receive nothing.

Do you ...

"I say old chaps! Well done! It's great to see you take my ideas and run with it and make some money! Good show!"

Or ...

"Oi! What the bloody hell are you wankers doing? That's my bloody creation! Those are my dollary-doos! I'll see you in court and make sure you get a fair boot up the bum for pinching from me!"

Mull over that ...

If it were me (it could be if my stories ever achieved world wide fame) I'd be pretty ticked off that someone was taking the easy way out and leech off my work instead of making their own ip (this is more so if they were selling the work for money, not fan fiction). If the 3rd Party want my full respect and support they need to put their talents to better use and create a toyline to rival Transformers without it using the designs of HasTak. Think about it, imagine if Zetacron was a planet former but instead of thd goatee non-unicron, it transformed into a robotic Grim Reaper with two red leds for eyes and moulded to look like it was wearing robes... With a scythe made from the planet rings. Best part is that this then lends itself to making the other horsemen of the apocalypse as planet formers

Exactly.

There's an incredible amount of talent in the 3P world. We live in a world where crowd funding is an option. They've proven they can produce the goods.

Why not ditch Transformer characters and create their own universe? Imagine what they could create unhindered by corporate rules and go direct to the fans.

Burn wrote:I have to wonder, all those people who are pro-3P, how would you react in such a scenario?

You spend hours ... days ... months ... years creating something and it turns out to be a success and you make a bit of money out of it. All that hard work has paid off!

Someone else sees your success and decides to improve on it without talking to you, their product, based on your creation, is a success, they make money on it, thanks to your hard work and theirs it has paid off and THEY have profitted from it and you receive nothing.

Do you ...

"I say old chaps! Well done! It's great to see you take my ideas and run with it and make some money! Good show!"

Or ...

"Oi! What the bloody hell are you wankers doing? That's my bloody creation! Those are my dollary-doos! I'll see you in court and make sure you get a fair boot up the bum for pinching from me!"

Mull over that ...

It happens all the time. Anytime you make something, you create a starting point for new makers. It’s how progress happens.

Also, bottom line, if Hasbro wanted to end the 3rd party market, they could do it virtually overnight. They just have to make the products fans are craving. They are not, and are leaving a huge void in the wants of consumers. Somebody will always, always come along to fill that void. The consumers owes no loyalty to Hasbro. None. They work for us, if they want our hard earned money.

Burn wrote:Exactly.

There's an incredible amount of talent in the 3P world. We live in a world where crowd funding is an option. They've proven they can produce the goods.

Why not ditch Transformer characters and create their own universe? Imagine what they could create unhindered by corporate rules and go direct to the fans.

It's... complicated. For starters, it's pretty hard to break through in any market, let alone one where "robots converting into different forms" is synonymous with Transformers (and to a lesser extent Power Rangers), and anything similar to them is viewed as a pale imitation in the public eye, thus avoided. Trying that with new IP's is taking a big risk, especially when Transformers is a staple, going strong for years, and covers quite a bit of ground leaving hardly anything undiscovered. Think "Simpsons did it!". And I'm not talking about just toys, but media tie-ins (a necessity nowadays) as well.

Ironhidensh wrote: The consumers owes no loyalty to Hasbro. None. They work for us, if they want our hard earned money.

Exactly.
Bottom line, You shouldn't have to go elsewhere for MP Swoop or Wreck Gar. But when it comes to Transformers, there is someone else out there - who isn't a Mega Corporation - but who asks the consumer "Do you want this?".