The Energon Pub

News Credits: 461 · by **mooncake623** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:36 am

mooncake623 wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:
mooncake623 wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:To be honest, I actually like the look of Uranos more than CW Superion. I'll still get him, though. Because I'm a fool with my money.

One advantage to CW is that their aerialbots are likely to scale well with the Classics Seeker mould I've invested in so heavily while the TFC ones are all large. That's also true for their Stunticons in relation to other deluxe cars.

This is the best argument (aside from price) that I've seen for the CW version over the TFC version. Kudos on that.

How bout them splits that Uranos like to do? =X

That's a crap argument in a discussion of aesthetics, but then I'm not sure if you're being serious.

For one thing, my Uranos stands perfectly fine without tilting, slumping, or sliding as shown by the pic I have him in surrounded by other bots.

For another, it's an easily corrected issue for anyone who takes 10 minutes to adjust the gearing.

This sort of discussion is where I feel lost discussing these issues of official vs certain third party figures. I feel like if I point out what I view as flaws in the official figure compared with the 3rd party figure, you get jumped on for being elitist.

It's almost always a matter of cost. We know that's the real issue but tip toe around it. I'll come back at the end with an example of where to me, it isn't a cost issue, but for now let's run with this.

For instance, let's take Skydive. Objectively, I do not think there is anyway to view the CW version as better than TFC's. Even outside the picture of Superion, the Skydive from TFC is absolutely outstanding. Cost aside, put them next to one another and I really wouldn't trust the opinion of anyone who viewed the CW version as objectively better.

But mix in cost and it's a different story. The Hasbro version for $14.99 or the TFC version for $89.99? Now we have something to change the balance of our decision making. If someone says, for the price, the Hasbro version is superior, I could certainly agree. But I don't think that's how it usually goes. We undermine one side or another to validate our own decision but rarely are we making appropriate comparisons.

So, ultimately, how will the "Hastak combiners" compare to the specialty market 3rd party combiners? They won't be as good. It's apples and oranges. It's Honda and BMW. But we all knew that from the beginning. EVERYONE should know that. Anyone who thinks the $15 general retail release is going to beat out the "custom tailored to 30-something yuppies with disposable income" is **** nuts. But...

But that doesn't diminish the retail release. Apples still taste good. Honda still makes great cars. For $15 is a CW figure going to get you as much enjoyment as I get out of a dead-to-rights G1 update from a 3rd party company? Most definitely. Is it absolutely awesome that Hasbro is making retail combiners a reality? Damn right it is.

Now me, personally? I'm willing to go the length and to spend the dollars to get the best version of any Classics style character. That's my thing, that's how my collection is set up. I'm not alone in that one...I think there are a LOT of people out there who look at this the same way. But I said I'd bring it back to an example where cost isn't the main issue.

So, I'm hoping that the CW line takes on Bruticus. I know...he's been over done as a combiner. He's also one where so far, the 3rd party companies have it wrong.

The FP version from yesteryear is now a sad sack of disappointment compared to modern figures and the Warbotron figure is just absurdly sized. Warbotron kills me because it's size is a waste. They made a beautiful toy that fits in with nothing. So, I'd love to see Hasbro's take on Bruticus. I don't take sides, I buy what's best for my display and where ever and whenever Hasbro gets it right, I'd love to buy and support the product.

I don't think I've posted this many words in a long time in a discussion. I probably **** it up between having a point to make and tending to our newborn.

TL;DR

Some people need to stop acting like collectors are screwing up by paying for expensive toys when those toys meet their needs AND;

Some people need to stop acting like official product is second class product.

I'll probably end up buying CW figures of stuff I already have a 3rd party combiner of anyway.

lol Only a joke CP

But after I read your post... You're right if I can buy TFC's superion for 15 bucks a piece I'll definitely buy it, but where I disagree with you is that one cannot like the Hasbro's superion more taking cost out of the equation... why can't I? (not saying I do btw) I for one will be damn sure that it will be the better toy which even for a 29 year old collector I can appreciate.

News Credits: 118 · by **megatronus** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:24 am

I don't know, CounterPunch. I'm also willing to drop money on whatever version of a figure I think is the best for my Classics collection. Uranos has been around a long time at this point, and I never liked him... the aesthetics just don't do it for me.

CW Superion, though? Love at first sight.

I don't doubt that if you compared the individual figures side-by-side, one-by-one, I would probably come away saying most of the Uranos figures are, in nearly every respect, better. But I'm buying a combiner to display the figures combined, and I happen to prefer the CW aesthetics over Uranos for that purpose.

That the individual figures scale better with Classics is an added bonus.

[EDIT]

You are however, absolutely on point here:

Counterpunch wrote:Some people need to stop acting like collectors are screwing up by paying for expensive toys when those toys meet their needs AND;

Some people need to stop acting like official product is second class product.

News Credits: 4 · by **Tsutsukakushi** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:40 am

Think it's unfair to compare a $400 to $600 3rd party TF combiners to Hasbro's $85 CW Combiners. Ofcause the ones that cost hundreds more are going to win. It's like comparing a Lamborgini to a Chevy Malibu.

Sorry price does need to factor in, not including it is cheating in debate replies here. For $85 buyers are getting a bargain with those USA CW Combiners. For $400 to $700+ buyers over paid for those 3rd party combiners.

If the rumors are true, Then that Titan CW Devastator that has a rumored 6 voyagers that form a Gestalt. This might rival those 3rd party Hercules and Giant for a fraction of the 3rd party gestalt price.

Think you have to really love Combiners to shell out hundreds of dollars to get the 3rd party gestalts. Some-most do not love them that much and are only willing to shell out Hasbro USA prices for them.

It's not that some fans are cheap or have low paying jobs or are unemployed. It's that some-most fans have lives beyond this hobby. Some-most are casually into this hobby and not hard core into this hobby. Some-most are married or engaged and have kids and responsibilities. Some-most have budgets that they can't justify spending tens of thousands a year on 3rd party TF toys. Think these CW Combiners are a God send and high enough quality for fans into this hobby casually, on a budget, married or engaged with responsibilities, kids and bills.

News Credits: 4 · by **Tsutsukakushi** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:51 am

Delta Magnus wrote:Never mind Devastator, WHEN DO WE GET SEACONS!?

Kinda want it to go in 1980's toy release order. With CW Predacons first, Second CW Terrorcons, Then CW Seacons. If there's time lastly CW Monstructor.

Guessing if HasTak gives us all of these for CW Decepticons animal-bots combiners. They'll be a whole bunch of repurposed figures getting used back and forth for each team.

Hoping HasTak treats these CW Combiners like they did the Kreon TF combiners. Where HasTak released all of the 1980's USA combiners teams in the line.

Hoping that since the next TF live movie is Two to Three+ years away. That 2016 has Four to Five+ more CW Combiners teams Gestalt in it. In late 2015-2016, Would like to see CW Computron, CW Predaking, CW Bruticus, CW Abonimus And CW Seacons. Might need to add CW raiden and CW Dinobots to balance out the Autobots side out for 2016.

News Credits: 12 · by **Evil Eye** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:40 pm

Having taken some more looks at the new Aerialbots (or at least the stock photos) I think my favourite might be Skydive, which is funny because I've never been too keen on him (mainly because I think the F-16 is a kinda ugly plane, especially compared to beauties like the Harrier, the F4 Phantom and the F15 Eagle) although I can't comment on his character as I haven't watched that much of the cartoon. But anyway, CW Skydive kicks arse. Something about that shape is just awesome.

Regarding Uranos, I must admit he's the one TFC combiner I'm not overly interested in. The limb-bots are superb and their jet modes are awesome, but the not-Silverbolt is not so good (awfully kibbly jet mode and kinda meh robot mode) and the combined mode just...looks wrong. I dunno, but I think I'll be going HasTak.

News Credits: 293 · by **shajaki** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:23 pm

im quite late to this thread, but i want to weigh in.

even without upgrades, i like CW superion more than uranos. like megatronus, i dont care for uranos' aesthetics and never have. i find uranos to busy and detailed like MK's green giant (which is odd, cause im a fan of TFC and their hercules).

i have intimidator, and while i have issues (overcomplexity and instability) i feel he will remain my definitive menasor. at this point i should note that i plan to get everything hastak puts out for CW, but my definitive versions are the ones ill display in combined forms. whoever i have that doesnt fit the bill for "best version" will likely be posed as separate figures along side the combiner. which works out great for menasor, because separately? i think hasbros stunticons are awesome.

on the subject of upgrade kits, that one new superion one shows a lot of promise. and delta magnus (if i recall) had a great idea of a motormaster trailer that could make his combined mode more proportional. not saying someone will indefinitely do that idea, but someone out there has to be working on an upgrade for menasor. maybe we'll see something soon now that CW prime is out, or maybe not until CW motormaster is out. 3P's might be able to work on a kit based on his mold mate prime, but maybe not depending on how different they are from one another.

News Credits: 12 · by **Evil Eye** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:30 pm

Aye, that was me. I feel that would kill 4 birds with 1 stone: improve the combined mode, give Motormaster a trailer like the G1 version, homage the original toy and its base mode, and provide an elegant solution for parts storage (new hands could be worked in that could form part of the trailer).

Intimidator will be my definitive Menasor but I think the CW figure could be made into something awesome.

News Credits: 293 · by **shajaki** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:38 pm

anyone else wonder what up with beelzeboss? they teased a CW slingshot (alpha bravo replacement) a while ago, and youd think now that theyve hit the market BB would have something to show by now. i also hoped with their slingshot would come a pair of feet and mits, making the PE upgrade moot.

by **Rated X** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:56 pm

shajaki wrote:anyone else wonder what up with beelzeboss? they teased a CW slingshot (alpha bravo replacement) a while ago, and youd think now that theyve hit the market BB would have something to show by now. i also hoped with their slingshot would come a pair of feet and mits, making the PE upgrade moot.

They're probably re-tooling the Fireflight mold to look like a Harrier as we speak. They once teased the Throttlebots from the classics Bumblebee mold in a similar fashion. But they most likely scrapped that project when Toyworld did their line. That was a shame really, since Toyworld kind of duped everybody with neo after relasing a cartoon accurate Rollbar. I'm totally down for a re-tool that matches the same aesthetic. I don't want a over detailed Fansproject looking out of place from the others. I kind of like how the Perfect Effect feet seem to lengthen the legs and cure the monkey arms syndrome.

News Credits: 4 · by **Tsutsukakushi** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:41 pm

duplicate post.

News Credits: 293 · by **shajaki** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:27 pm

Tsutsukakushi wrote:
Rated X wrote: You gotta admit, the oversized feet fixes the monkey arms syndrome superion suffers with the stock feet.
Monkey arms, means the arms are longer than the legs and i'm not seeing this on CW Menasor or CW Superion.

superion doesnt have much of a monkey thing going on, but menasor totally does.

by **Rated X** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:33 pm

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Monkey arms, means the arms are longer than the legs and i'm not seeing this on CW Menasor or CW Superion.

If you dont bend the knees you got a clear case of monkey arms. The added height of the Perfect Effect boots eliminates this issue by making the legs longer.

And that's just Ryan's glamor shot. if you look at the figure from above the monkey arms look even worse.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Not seeing any kiddie looking sculpted hands and feet for CW Superion or CW Menasor. In fact they appear to be high sculpted gestalt feet and hands aimed at teenagers and adults fans.

You mean this thing clipped on Drag Strip's arm ?

While these hands might be a vast improvement over previous combiners, they still flat out suck. You own FP Intimidator and Colossus so you know how real articulated hands designed for adults are supposed to look.

These are not even close:

They were clearly made to be kid friendly.

And lets not get started with Superion's asymmetrical stock feet.

by **guarayakha** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:49 am

It's less kid friendly and more cost cutting, considering that the CW feet and hands are of the same mold. You either get normal hands/small feet or huge hands/normal feet with them, which is why PE's addon help so much with the overall look.

News Credits: 4 · by **Tsutsukakushi** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:15 am

Rated X wrote:
Tsutsukakushi wrote:Monkey arms, means the arms are longer than the legs and i'm not seeing this on CW Menasor or CW Superion.

If you dont bend the knees you got a clear case of monkey arms. The added height of the Perfect Effect boots eliminates this issue by making the legs longer.

And that's just Ryan's glamor shot. if you look at the figure from above the monkey arms look even worse.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Not seeing any kiddie looking sculpted hands and feet for CW Superion or CW Menasor. In fact they appear to be high sculpted gestalt feet and hands aimed at teenagers and adults fans.

Rated X wrote: You mean this thing clipped on Drag Strip's arm ?

While these hands might be a vast improvement over previous combiners, they still flat out suck. You own FP Intimidator and Colossus so you know how real articulated hands designed for adults are supposed to look.

These are not even close:

They were clearly made to be kid friendly.

And lets not get started with Superion's asymmetrical stock feet.

adding bigger feet will not make the legs longer. the only way to make the legs longer is to create replacements thighs or replacements shins that are longer. #-o

Anyways it's common math to know if your using both replacements oversized feet and hands, they will balance things out, not create an in balance. #-o

News Credits: 4 · by **Tsutsukakushi** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:59 am

Rated X wrote: The stock feet and hands were made silly looking for the sole purpose of child playability which I dont care about as an adult collector who just displays figures on a shelf. So an upgrade to make superion look less like a toy and more like an adult collectible is a welcome addition.

Adding MP styled replacements PE hands and feet will not transform a entire CHUG kiddie styled CW Gestalt toy into a MP adult toy. #-o

The only way to accomplish this is to spend hundreds buying 3rd party replacements team members of 5. :lol:

There is nothing kiddie looking about the CW gestalts fist and feet, They are just in CGUG style not MP style.

Other than you, Nobody here sees freakishly long gorrilla arms and freakishly short gorilla legs on these CW gestalts.

Some here are interested in buying these replacements CW PE gestalt hands and feet. Because they are looking for Gestalt hands with more articulated jointed fingers. With replacements PE feet that will add a height boost to the gestalt making it taller and blend in better with other taller 3rd party gestalts.

#-o

Nobody here thinks the bigger PE replacements feet will make the CW gestalts arms appear less shorter. :lol:

News Credits: 4 · by **Tsutsukakushi** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:11 am

Rated X wrote: The added height of the Perfect Effect boots eliminates this issue by making the legs longer.

No, Bigger boots do not make the legs longer and the arms shorter. you'd need 3rd party replacements or add on thighs or shins to make the legs longer.

To break things down into the simplest form I can think of for you to explain this.
Here is a example, Justin Beiber's legs don't look longer when he buys those shoes with lifts inside them. They just give Justin beiber a artificial height and fool everyone into thinking he's taller than he actually is.

by **Ginrai Minor** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:30 am

CW Superion def had some monkey arm syndrome going on, but the PE parts provide the optical illusion that makes the limbs seem more in proportion with each other. It completes the look to me.

So the way I see it for these gestalts...

combined mode:

CW Superion>TFC Uranos
CW Menasor<FP Intimidator

individual bot mode:

CW Superion>TFC Uranos
CW Menasor>FP Intimidator

Hasbro def saved me some money on Superion, but do I get FP Intimidator asap or gamble on a G2 version (hope I didn't blow it when I missed g2 KK :-(

)

I know I will get CW superion and Menasor but idk if hasbro can sway me on anymore Gestalts....I've got giant and Im gonna go with UT for Predaking and MCB for Bruticus. Just gotta play catch up like a mofo. :BANG_HEAD:

by **Rated X** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:25 pm

Tsutsukakushi wrote:
Rated X wrote: The added height of the Perfect Effect boots eliminates this issue by making the legs longer.

No, Bigger boots do not make the legs longer and the arms shorter. you'd need 3rd party replacements or add on thighs or shins to make the legs longer.

To break things down into the simplest form I can think of for you to explain this.
Here is a example, Justin Beiber's legs don't look longer when he buys those shoes with lifts inside them. They just give Justin beiber a artificial height and fool everyone into thinking he's taller than he actually is.

Ummm the PE boots are taller and thicker than the silly hasbro feet. That half an inch really helps. Im not sure how you dont see the monkey arms in the pics I provided. Its almost like youre purposely trying not to see them. While its not as extreme a case as planet X genesis, its there. But that extra half an inch is all it needs to compensate. Taller boots means taller legs. (Hence fanstoys grimlock moon boots) Also PEss smaller fists decrease the length of superions arms a small bit. That helps. If im going to go spend 100 bucks on a combiner, why wouldnt I spend another 60 to give him a better overall look. I like to treat myself. Im not greedy to my toys, I give them the works.

News Credits: 4 · by **Tsutsukakushi** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:28 pm

Rated X wrote:
Tsutsukakushi wrote:
Rated X wrote: The added height of the Perfect Effect boots eliminates this issue by making the legs longer.

No, Bigger boots do not make the legs longer and the arms shorter. you'd need 3rd party replacements or add on thighs or shins to make the legs longer.

To break things down into the simplest form I can think of for you to explain this.
Here is a example, Justin Beiber's legs don't look longer when he buys those shoes with lifts inside them. They just give Justin beiber a artificial height and fool everyone into thinking he's taller than he actually is.

Ummm the PE boots are taller and thicker than the silly hasbro feet. That half an inch really helps. Im not sure how you dont see the monkey arms in the pics I provided. Its almost like youre purposely trying not to see them. While its not as extreme a case as planet X genesis, its there. But that extra half an inch is all it needs to compensate. Taller boots means taller legs. (Hence fanstoys grimlock moon boots) Also PEss smaller fists decrease the length of superions arms a small bit. That helps. If im going to go spend 100 bucks on a combiner, why wouldnt I spend another 60 to give him a better overall look. I like to treat myself. Im not greedy to my toys, I give them the works.

The PE CW Hands are also oversized and bigger than the HasTak CW hands version. :BANG_HEAD:

The Hasbro USA Set of Five CW combiners team cost under $85 not $100. :-B

At it's lowest Price so far. Target stores in the USA had the CW deluxes on sale last week for $11.99 each. With CW Voyagers costing $24.99. that totals $72.95. #-o

PE, Most fans suspect are going to charge an insanely high price for these replacements CW fist and feet. As PE is one of the higher priced 3rd party companies. So $60 seems a bit low for them. Think $70+ seems more like it. :-?

bigger feet does not mean taller legs. Like bigger fist does not mean longer arms. :lol:

the only way to make those CW Gestalt legs taller is to create replacements or add ons, thighs or shins that are longer than the original.

:BANG_HEAD:

If you were to buy oversized clown shoes with 3 inch lifts inside them, they would not make your legs seem longer and your arms seem less shorter, just apply this equation now to the CW Gestalts with the PE Oversized fist and oversized feet. :BANG_HEAD:

I'm done replying on this matter.

by **Rated X** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:51 pm

Did you ever wonder why nearly all women wear high heels ? Its the same concept here plain and simple. Taller boots gives the appearance of longer legs and increased height. You need to go to a strip club and see excactly how much height some3 inch high stilettos can add to womens height.

News Credits: 4 · by **Tsutsukakushi** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:17 pm

Rated X wrote:Did you ever wonder why nearly all women wear high heels ? Its the same concept here plain and simple. Taller boots gives the appearance of longer legs and increased height. You need to go to a strip club and see excactly how much height some3 inch high stilettos can add to womens height.

Your example is moot, as your looking to decrease the CW gestalts monkey arms with Oversized PE replacements feet. 3+ inch high heels stilettos on a woman, still does not make the arms seem less shorter, no elimination of monkey arms syndrome. especially not with the added PE replacements oversized longer CW hands. #-o

News Credits: 12 · by **Evil Eye** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:24 pm

Remind me why out of the 30 years this brand has had, we've only ever had 1 female combiner member (Scylla)?

News Credits: 293 · by **shajaki** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:02 pm

now i know i said superion inst monkey'ish, but after seeing those pics again he kinda is. not as much as menasor mind you.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Nobody here thinks the bigger PE replacements feet will make the CW gestalts arms appear less shorter.

stop speaking for everyone else.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:PE, Most fans suspect are going to charge an insanely high price for these replacements CW fist and feet. As PE is one of the higher priced 3rd party companies. So $60 seems a bit low for them. Think $70+ seems more like it.

again, stop speaking for others. i just poured through all 8 pages of this damn thread (and the PE add-on thread) looking for others talking specifically about how much this add-on could cost, only megatronus speculates 50-60. lots of talk about how much things cost, but not this PE add-on.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:bigger feet does not mean taller legs. Like bigger fist does not mean longer arms.

does it make his legs longer? no. taller overall? yes. wheres the confusion in this idea?

and for the love of god, relax with the emoticons.

by **Lord Raze** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:14 pm

I really think you're mistaken with your opinion of the hands, they look about the same size to me. If they are bigger it's by the slightest margin. No doubt they are longer due to the fact they have articulated fingers that can be moved into an open palm rather then just an open or closed fist.

by **guarayakha** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:18 am

The main problem was that the CW stock feet is simply the hands placed backwards, and is of the same size, thus throwing off the proportion of the combined mode. The PE addons solved that problem.