The Energon Pub

hello all,

Just a simple question. How does having reprolables effect the value of your transformers? By value I mean economic value for resale. I've been applying reprolables to some of my third party transformers so it looks more G1 accurate and they are apply with the utmost care. if I ever resell it would the value be lowered? I've recently brought a bunch of fraction signs and I'm wondering if it'll negatively effect the value if I applied them to some reveal the shield and classics figures.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks in advance.

It's completely dependant on the supplier whether they are okay with reprolabels or prefer original labels coupled with supply and demand of the figure.

what do you perfer? knowing the figures is mint but out of box anyway. would you perfer reprolabels if you find one on ebay? or would you perfer it be mint out of box with no reprolabels.

Personally i'm not too bothered because depending on the condition of the stickers i'll probably replace them myself anyway.

However, if someone uses reporlabels to restore a figure to sell on e-bay, then i'd like to know that they are reprolabels. It's a simple case of open and transparent even though it doesn't bother me whether they're genuine or not, I just like to know what i'm getting.

Burn wrote:Personally i'm not too bothered because depending on the condition of the stickers i'll probably replace them myself anyway.

However, if someone uses reporlabels to restore a figure to sell on e-bay, then i'd like to know that they are reprolabels. It's a simple case of open and transparent even though it doesn't bother me whether they're genuine or not, I just like to know what i'm getting.

I'm of the same mind. Just be up front about it because some people might prefer to have absolutely 100% original.

If you are replacing shoddy labels, then I don't see it lowering the value of a figure since the reprolabels can easily be removed. On the other hand, I don't see them improving the resale value of a figure more than what you paid for the labels anyway.

I would have thought that any tampering would lower the general resale value, but there are probably some who would pay more if you get lucky.

Note: tampering is not the same as customising/kitbashing. Hmmm maybe labeling them as 'custom' would help the value. 'Customised with ReproLabels for enhanced G1 accuracy cos we all know Hasbro won't give us what we want' might raise the value.

nah, it's still a case of supply and demand.

If someone wants a figure and doesn't care if the stickers are original or repro, they'll pay for it.

If someone wants a figure and only wants original stickers, they won't pay for it.

You also have to take into account the popularity and rarity of the figure.

But I agree with what Lapse said, I don't think they'll increase the re-sale value of the figure, but they will increase the display value in your collection.

Don't worry about it. Transformers are not a good investment anyway. Unless you're talking about MISB G1 figures or MISB limited-edition exclusives, most TFs are not going to appreciate in value much anyway. If you sell them some day, you'll be lucky to make back what you paid for them after adjusting for inflation. So don't worry about resale value; just enjoy them here and now.

I don't think it matters either way. The only influence it would have on the value of the figure is what you paid for the stickers. Personally I think some of the repro labels are cool, but I wouldn't pay more for the figure because of them.

You re-sell your G1 figures?

Anyway, reprolabels adds wonders for 2nd hand figs whose decals either have worn out due to play or age.

As an example,the Doubledealer I got from ebay was in a fairly good condition but his decals were suffering from paper rot (seems that the Powermasters either suffered from rusting screws or decals that easily deteriorate)though not all of them are "like the originals', some in fact are better than the originals ('dealer's was like metallic foil like stock).

I especially like their somewhat pricier upgrade sets. Really enhances the figures (like that for Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus,Hotrodimus and BB.

Yeah, I don't think the stickers will change the values much. Like many others said, supply and demand. If demand is high, even without stickers can still sell good because people want the figures, not stickers. But to me personally, I prefer the stickers are not applied when you are selling them. I like to put them on by myself.

If I pay $500 for a original G1 vintage Wheeljack as an example....then I want original G1 vintage stickers on there as well - regardless of the condition. We've had this (for some reason rather controversial) conversation before and I always bring up the classic car comparison.

A classic car is worth more if it has all original parts that are in so so condition than one which has been fixed up with new "old" parts that are in great condition. There are companies that make new "old parts" for old cars. Cars with these parts are worth much less than a car that has all the original stuff, even if the new stuff works and looks better.

I had one of 6 g1 seekers whose stickers needed replacing. Got the repro labels and although they looked nice they did not match the stickers on the others (originals). This was very frustrating. I could go on an on on this subject.

Generally the repro labels look good, but dont match the originals, so if your G1 Rodimus is missing one of his thigh stickers, you cant replace it with a repro as they wont match. There is a reason why the original stickers sell for much much more on ebay than do the repros.

Also - If anyone is growing tired of my classic car analogy check out any episode of Pawn Stars or Antique Roadshow - anything that has been fixed, updated, upgraded, or whatever you want to call it loses a lot of value. This applies not only to cars, but everything from toys, weapons, furniture, you name it. I dont know why some folks on here think that Transformers somehow are an exception to this generally accepted rule when it comes to the value of old, vintage, collectibles.

JackStraw wrote:Also - If anyone is growing tired of my classic car analogy check out any episode of Pawn Stars or Antique Roadshow - anything that has been fixed, updated, upgraded, or whatever you want to call it loses a lot of value. This applies not only to cars, but everything from toys, weapons, furniture, you name it. I dont know why some folks on here think that Transformers somehow are an exception to this generally accepted rule when it comes to the value of old, vintage, collectibles.

Probably because Transformers aren't a high volume trading item as a lot of other things you find in pawn or antique shops maybe?

Let me throw this at you. G1 Wheeljack with all weapons, instruction book, used sticker sheet and reprolabels for $50. A tenth of what you'd pay for one with original stickers.

Would you buy it or pass on it?

hm.. My concern is basically for my classics collection. I've put fraction symbols on some of the RTS figures and Classics figures that doesn't really have one. for example I've put a Decepticon symbol on the nose cone and one on the upper chest area of Starscream. and also third party Transformers like scouting force x. What I'm hoping is that putting these stickers on would not decrease the value of them.

How far down the track are you planning to sell them?

Not really planing on selling anything, just asking for a just in case i have to scenario. Just don't want to be doing anything that'll damage their value cause I think everything looks so much better with these new symbols. So just want to see what people are saying before I go nuts.

It's hard to tell at this point as we don't know if those figures will appreciate in value or not.

Again it will come down to a case of supply and demand. Classics were really targetted at a more adult market who had the disposable income to blow on them. They had no tv show or even comic to "introduce" them to kids so unlike G1, when the "Classics kids" grow up to be adults, they'll be more inclined to chase Animated, Movie, or Prime figures as that's what they grew up with.

So going off all that, I can't see them appreciating much in value and because their stickers, a dedicated fan could easily remove them and restore them back to their original state.

Burn wrote:

JackStraw wrote:Also - If anyone is growing tired of my classic car analogy check out any episode of Pawn Stars or Antique Roadshow - anything that has been fixed, updated, upgraded, or whatever you want to call it loses a lot of value. This applies not only to cars, but everything from toys, weapons, furniture, you name it. I dont know why some folks on here think that Transformers somehow are an exception to this generally accepted rule when it comes to the value of old, vintage, collectibles.

Probably because Transformers aren't a high volume trading item as a lot of other things you find in pawn or antique shops maybe?

Let me throw this at you. G1 Wheeljack with all weapons, instruction book, used sticker sheet and reprolabels for $50. A tenth of what you'd pay for one with original stickers.

Would you buy it or pass on it?

I would buy. I dont get the point.

Bottom line is when you are talking about the resale value of a collectible, especially an older one, anything added that is not original decreases the value - generally speaking, when it comes to my buying, Transformers are no exception.

Now you are asking me would I rather a WJ with original stickers for $500 or with repro for $50, i'll take the repro, but I'm not sure what that proves, other than the fact that I'm not rich.

The reason I surmise why reprolabels don't replicate the exact original decal material is probably to get Hasbro off their backs. So if indeed you use one on an "original", it's up to the buyer(whether it be on Ebay, amazon,etc)on the value (so long as the seller indicates otherwise)of the TF.

Of course the presence of all the original parts makes a lot of difference in the asking price, but in the end, that'd be more for MISB type buyers. If I get a mint but loose, complete except for the decal, I'd grab the opportunity to buy it.

JackStraw wrote:Also - If anyone is growing tired of my classic car analogy check out any episode of Pawn Stars or Antique Roadshow - anything that has been fixed, updated, upgraded, or whatever you want to call it loses a lot of value. This applies not only to cars, but everything from toys, weapons, furniture, you name it. I dont know why some folks on here think that Transformers somehow are an exception to this generally accepted rule when it comes to the value of old, vintage, collectibles.

Um, no. Lets say I have a painting. There's no frame, the canvas is dirty, and there's holes here and there. I pay someone to restore it and add a new frame. Guess what? The value goes up. Similarly, a running '69 Mustang is worth a hell of a lot more than a body rusting in someone's barn. Watch "American Restorations", you'll never see Rick tell someone their item is worth less after he's done with it.

There are actually very few items where cleaning/restoring them hurts the value, chiefly coins and furniture.

fenrir72 wrote:The reason I surmise why reprolabels don't replicate the exact original decal material is probably to get Hasbro off their backs.

I've a feeling it's more economy of scale and improvements in materials. Paper stickers are cheap to print en masse, but for the runs that RL does, it wouldn't make sense. Plus, I find Reprolabels to be more durable than the originals.

Skyfire77 wrote:Um, no. Lets say I have a painting. There's no frame, the canvas is dirty, and there's holes here and there. I pay someone to restore it and add a new frame. Guess what? The value goes up. Similarly, a running '69 Mustang is worth a hell of a lot more than a body rusting in someone's barn. Watch "American Restorations", you'll never see Rick tell someone their item is worth less after he's done with it.

There are actually very few items where cleaning/restoring them hurts the value, chiefly coins and furniture.

Ah... just because I'm in the art dealing industry I'd like to clarify your statement by saying it depends not only on the type of restoration, but the collector ^^;; Even if you repair a hole or two in a painting it's virtually unsalable to a collector and it turns into a "I want that thing now!" sort of deal for people who are either unschooled in art/collecting or don't care about condition (which rules out serious collectors). So yes, the value is certainly higher than when it had a hole, but you lose most the important players who'd bid/consider buying it (Obviously there are exceptions with the highly famous master painters and such, but it's a basic rule that applies to prints, painting, vintage Valentines, etc)

Basically if something is completely destroyed and you fix it up it does gain value back. But if it's in ok condition and you fix it, chances are, depending on the item being restored, you just hurt it's value (can't tell you how many times I've heard my co-workers gripe about how something has been restored to death)

I'd imagine toys are something of the same, but have more liberties. A painting can't have segments replaced (...well, technically it can but if you did that in restoration you'd MURDERED the value). Toys can however. So if, say, your G1 Optimus Prime broke, you can find pieces to other G1 Optimus's to fix it and no one but you would know the difference. But if you wanted to be legit about it you would say your Optimus has been "refurbished" or "repaired." Naturally that means he's not going to be the value of a pristine, never been altered or repaired Optimus, even if he looks it, because he's been fixed and altered in some fashion. But he will be more than a beat to crap Optimus.

And as I end this rambling I will say, when put in Auctions (ebay, Swann's, Sotheby's, etc) things sometimes get funky. Esepcally in this economy. Pieces of crap sometimes sell for the same price or more than the pristine version and sometimes the pristine versions sell for garbage prices (or don't sell at all). Auctions are hot these days and most people at them don't know what the hell they're doing (or get into pissing contests because they want something so badly they forget its real value). Goes for many things, I just hear about it in the art world 'cause that's the industry I'm in and learning about.

My two cents on altering TF toys - at this modern moment I don't think the price will be effected much. But no one can really say what it'll do in 30+ years. Good? Bad? Do nothing at all? Who knows. Hard to tell when you're taking a modern toy and trying to make it look like the classic character. And it'll also depend on if anyone cares about the Transformers realm in 30 years. Supply and demand will certainly play its part.

I'm pretty sure that (beyond the value tumble that is taken when an item is unpacked) the primary base for the value of a Transformer is in its material condition: nothing broken, no stress marks, no discolorations, shiny unscratched plastic and of course completeness of its accessories. In my opinion, problems with any of these can be deal-breakers, and problems or flaws will have a big impact on the value. Easiest to correct is the replacement of accessories, although these might also be one of the most expensive fixes.

In contrast, the condition, correct placement and neat placement of labels are of much less importance, mostly because they can easily be removed or replaced by original labels or Reprolabels without harming the integrity of the material condition. This also means that having the labels replaced will hardly change the value of the Transformer; and if done well, it will probably add to the value of the item.

In general, in most cases, if buying a G1 Transformer, I wouldn't mind an item which has been Reprolabel'ed well.
In the case of newer TF's (like RtS or Generations) or third party TF's which have been pre-printed, I'd be a bit more hesitant in buying one with additional, non-factory labels.

We're not talking about original paintings or classic cars. We're talking about mass-produced $10-$50 toys. There's a big difference. The analogies don't work.

GuyIncognito wrote:We're not talking about original paintings or classic cars. We're talking about mass-produced $10-$50 toys. There's a big difference. The analogies don't work.

Natrally. Toys are always another animal than art (not just in value), but I felt I should clarify a statement made about artwork restoration xP (note edited in : I meant no offense with my rambling before either, to anyone, was just trying to explain the art world end of restoration as it came up)

It's rare to find vitage toys that are worth a crud load and those that are tend to be 50+ years old (cult classics aside). Note, this is just my observation. I certainly don't look at everything (no where even close).

Transformers is just over 25 years old and mass marketing certainly hurts items that, say 50 or 60 years ago, wouldn't have been as wide spread or mass produced as they are in today's global market. There's no telling what the future holds for their value, altered or otherwise. They could collapse on themselves, they could rise up. It's a guessing game for everyone.

Most important thing is to enjoy what you're collecting & if altering your Transformers makes you happier, then I don't see why you should worry. If you're really antsy about it buy a spare figure to remain unaltered, if you can, otherwise just have fun with your little guys