The Energon Pub

So that IS supposed to be Ironhide? I thought that was a prototype of the figure. The reds don't match and there is no yellow stripe. How is that a "Studio Series" when it looks wrong? Looks like a deluxe too.

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Solrac333 wrote:So that IS supposed to be Ironhide? I thought that was a prototype of the figure. The reds don't match and there is no yellow stripe. How is that a "Studio Series" when it looks wrong? Looks like a deluxe too.

Still not fully confirmed, we'll only know the true, final, deco at the official unveiling, either by Takara or Hasbro.

As previously noted, the reds might match better in hand like ER Sunstreaker.

primalxconvoy wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:Also, in places like Japan, such figures are NOT always aimed at (young) children

That might be true but studio series was definitely aimed at children over there when I went as it was one of the few ranges of Tfs non speciality stores stocked. Or maybe half of that is just toysRus Japan trying to be more American. Coca Cola. Wonderbra.

The studio series, from my own limited observations, seems to have been sold in a handful of shops in Japan, just like most TFs, as they aren't that popular in Japan with kids (unless there's a dedicated Japanese release of a film or a TV show and associates marketing), they're pretty rare to see in most shops.

The main Takara Tomy "Transformers" styled toys for kids in Japan currently is this:

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkan ... Shinkalion

However, was due diligence, TT's website lists SS86 Arcee as being aimed at/suitable for (depending upon the translation?) children who are 8 years old or above.

Screenshot_20220807-181413.jpg

That said, this could still be sure to my original point of a toy company following the existing logistics, restrictions and laws to deliver collectibles to adults.

Shinkalion just ended, but you're right, that line is huge in Japan, they make bath salts for it, BATH SALTS! What's coming next and is already out in Japan is a line called Jobraver and I've been excited for the toys since the Spring, I'm more excited for them than most of Legacy.

Lore Keeper wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:It's a difficult issue because of some folks complaints about the YouTubers ethics. This approach offered the best compromise so that we could still news these leaks and offer credit where credit was due.

If you want to watch his reviews check out the review forum where he posts them, along with all the other reviews from users like Lore Keeper, and ChuckDawg.

Now back to Ironhide please.

I see you both!

He looks better, and he certainly has some good engineering in there to him. Seems like he will be a good figure.

He still isn't my cup of tea, but it looks better and I am glad he looks better for you who want it

primalxconvoy wrote:

Emerje wrote:15+ is just the Japanese way of designating something as being for collectors since typically a 15 year old isn't buying "toys" but is likely "mature" enough for some collectibles like Nendoroids which do say 15 and up on the box. Funny thing is I'm holding a Japanese copy of Studio Series Bumblebee Movie Cliffjumper in my hands right now and it says 5 and above right on the front of the box, as do just about every other Deluxe SS figure I'm looking at online, but oddly both Bee Movie Soundwave and Ravage say 8+ (for those that want to see for themselves it's the white box at the top with a number surrounded by Japanese characters).

Checking the Seibertron gallery the only Legends figures I can find with 15+ on them is Blitzwing, G2 Megatron (same mold) and Octane which I have to assume is an error because there's nothing particularly special about those three figures and Black Convoy (using the Octane mold) is 5+ like the rest of the line.

Emerje

That's what I've already stated.

What you keep stating is that it's 15+ isn't adult, and you're right, that's the 18+ designation. I'm saying 15+ is the the universal cut off for collectibles, it has nothing to do with safety or contents.

As for the Legends figures, most of the ones we checked (both at home), and at the toy shop(s) we visited at the time had a "15+" rating. Chicken or the egg here, but it was probably related to the sexual content of the comics that came with those figures. However, the age rating wasn't bonding and toy shops were not always even aware that the rating was there. If any of the figures from Legends were below 15+, I can only assume it was down to the lack of sexualized themes in the pack-in comic at the time.

I checked the age on 32 figure boxes in the Seibertron gallery, only 3 were listed as 15+, one of which had an exclusive repaint (Black Convoy) that was listed as 5+. 15+ was an anomaly and possibly even an error, it was far from being the rule. It had nothing to do with the comics, there's more objectionable content in Weekly Shonen Jump. I think you're misremembering this.

The "15+" rating is, arguably, the closest that such toys can be to bring an "adult collectible" (which, I assume, may necessitate different legal restrictions, etc). However, the point here is that there's no clear distinction between "MP" and "other TFs" as being "adult" and "kids". There's obvious evidence to suggest the average "CHUG" figure (even if they have an age rating below "8+") is aimed at collectors (in terms of aesthetics, character choices, etc), while adhering to legal requirements and/or additional features that will help it sell in its capacity,/function as a toy (for children). MPs, are also aimed at "15+", just like many "CHUG" toys in Japan, and arguably aimed at both collectors and (by the same legalities above) at minors under the age of legal adulthood (20/21 in Japan, in most cases).

Legal adulthood is now 18 in Japan like in the US, though things like gambling and alcohol are still off limits until 20.

I didn't want to go rummaging around for my Legends boxes (most of which do have a "15+" rating on them, from what I remember), but here are some random ones that were lying around, taken from MP, POTP, SS86 and Earthrise. All of them, barring SS86 Perceptor (which seems to be suitable for ages 3+) are aimed/suitable for ages 15+.

SS86 Perceptor is 5+, SS figures put it right on the front of the box instead of the back or bottom like other Transformers.

I would add that, in Japan, Takara has seemingly "cut their losses" with TFs aimed at kids as their major demographic (possibly due to the shrinking population, the lower popularity of TFs in Japan and/or the dominance of Bandai with their Power Ranger/Super Sentai styled toys). Takara may have joined forces with Tomy due to their shrinking market share. It might also be why, ironically, they stopped making "collector focused" toy paint jobs of most CHUG figures (sharing the costs with Hasbro) and why they doubled-down on an even smaller demographic of TF collector for their "anime-centric" MP line.

I think they realized that selling Transformers to kids was potentially taking away from other robot lines they were trying to promote to the same audience. They're still trying to push Zoids the last I saw and there's that new one I can't remember the name of with the little police robots and vehicles. I think the whole brand unification came about because Hasbro wanted to lean heavy into cartoon accuracy with WFC which was already TT and they just jumped in early with PotP.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:
What you keep stating is that it's 15+ isn't adult, and you're right, that's the 18+ designation. I'm saying 15+ is the the universal cut off for collectibles, it has nothing to do with safety or contents.

You're partially right. However, "collectibles" (aimed at adults) and "toys" (aimed at children) follow different legal requirements (drop tests, toxicity of materials etc). Thus, your final point is incorrect.

I checked the age on 32 figure boxes in the Seibertron gallery, only 3 were listed as 15+, one of which had an exclusive repaint (Black Convoy) that was listed as 5+. 15+ was an anomaly and possibly even an error, it was far from being the rule. It had nothing to do with the comics, there's more objectionable content in Weekly Shonen Jump. I think you're misremembering this.

Although I can't/won't check through all of my own boxes, I don't believe I've misremembered things. Most of the boxes for the Japanese version of Titans Returns ("Legends") were indeed 15+. As for the comics, I disagree. The sexualised themes were enough to either warrant the 15+ designation or be "acceptable" to accompany such as product aimed at that age group. I disagree that Shonen Jump featured equivalent content. My Japanese friends, who are themselves mothers, found the content of the pack-in comics questionable (ironically as they assumed the toys were aimed at younger children).

Legal adulthood is now 18 in Japan like in the US, though things like gambling and alcohol are still off limits until 20.

Indeed it is, which was a recent change. However, as you stated, some things are not still permissable:

"...Not everything changed when the age of adulthood dropped to 18. Even though you are an adult, in Japan you are not allowed to:

Buy alcoholic beverages.
Buy tobacco.Gamble and bet on things like horse races.
Enter the national pension system.

The legal age for all of the above is still 20..."

(Source: - https://japan-forward.com/japans-legal- ... that-stay/ )

However, compared to the UK, where "adulthood" is, for most things, 18, socially it could be argued that in Japan/US, the age of adulthood is still possibly 21. Regardless, it's not "15".

SS86 Perceptor is 5+, SS figures put it right on the front of the box instead of the back or bottom like other Transformers.

Thank you, yes, that's true. The safety instructions still state that it's not suitable for anyone under 3 years though, if my translation is correct.

I think they realized that selling Transformers to kids was potentially taking away from other robot lines they were trying to promote to the same audience. They're still trying to push Zoids the last I saw and there's that new one I can't remember the name of with the little police robots and vehicles. I think the whole brand unification came about because Hasbro wanted to lean heavy into cartoon accuracy with WFC which was already TT and they just jumped in early with PotP.

Emerje

I think that might be partially true, but I believe Takara were also spending too much money on "cartoon accurate" CHUG figures and realised they could simply release MPs in that style and either release Hasbro's usual lackluster paint schemes, or possibly pay half with them to make fairly decent figures, somewhere between the (paint) quality of the two companies.

As for more evidence of the "15+" state of Takara TFs, see below.

I know it's been shared before that Hastak (or Hasbro) released some consumer stat a while back that stated only roughly 30% of TF action figure sales were made by collectors...
I'm sure they put someone to the task of figuring out that math/percentage.
But HOW????
How would they know that I'm a collector... When I'm also the father of two kids, ages 14 and 12... How would they distinguish that all of my TF purchases since 2007 have been for me and not as a parent for both and/or either of my kids???
I just think collectors weigh-in more than they'll admit (or know).
Otherwise they could do away with characters and character model likenesses and just go straight after what kids like and find visually interesting and cool with solid play gimmicks outside of transformation.
And consider this-- so many people (including a lot of collectors) who are truly sick of G1 characters would potentially LOVE figures that are based on completely random/new, non-show-related characters.


And back to SS86 Ironhide; maybe the variations of red seen in those images could've and should've been more closely matched (difficult to tell from photos)...
But either way, this is something that happens with a whole lot of figures, and in the end, it doesn't matter that much. Sunstreaker is a good example.
Another one that shares this color "issue", is one that will most likely go down as one of my most favorite of my most favorite figures of all time,
Kingdom Cyclonus.
There are tones of Purple (I'm pretty sure there are 3 variations) and metallic gray/silver (a couple) on various parts that don't completely match one another on that figure.
And weird... He's STILL amazing.

I'm not even a huge fan of Ironhide as a character (I like him, but he's not one of my favorites).
I'm sharing these insights and opinions because I truly believe this looks to be an outstanding figure...
So I'm hoping that people aren't giving-in and being swayed by negativity that, at least to me, seems relatively off-base.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I just think collectors weigh-in more than they'll admit (or know).

They don't. And we all have the evidence staring at us in the face whenever anyone complains about shelfwarming. If collectors were buying up all the figures from generations and studio series, then we wouldn't see them much in stores, they would sell out. But they don't.
You can prove me wrong and buy every SS figure you see if you want.

There really is no question in my mind that Studio Series '86 Ironhide is a huge improvement over the Earthrise release a few years ago. This is perhaps a "mini-Masterpiece" at last for old Ironhide. Also, I won't be clamoring for a DK-2 Guard repaint anytime soon. Given that it's very much a Diaclone reference, I think Guard is best represented by the very G1/Diaclone partsforming method of transformation homaged in the Earthrise Ironhide/Ratchet mold. In fact, I might say that Guard wears that mold best with his black color scheme hiding a lot of the limitations of the design.

Funny thing, Ironhide was trending on Twitter, lots of chatter on the character and toy.

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I just think collectors weigh-in more than they'll admit (or know).

They don't. And we all have the evidence staring at us in the face whenever anyone complains about shelfwarming. If collectors were buying up all the figures from generations and studio series, then we wouldn't see them much in stores, they would sell out. But they don't.
You can prove me wrong and buy every SS figure you see if you want.

That might be down to logistics, rather than "collectors don't buy toys". Shops ordering too much stock, or collectors buying the same products elsewhere. For example, I buy 100% of my TFs online.

Wolfman Jake wrote:There really is no question in my mind that Studio Series '86 Ironhide is a huge improvement over the Earthrise release a few years ago. This is perhaps a "mini-Masterpiece" at last for old Ironhide. Also, I won't be clamoring for a DK-2 Guard repaint anytime soon. Given that it's very much a Diaclone reference, I think Guard is best represented by the very G1/Diaclone partsforming method of transformation homaged in the Earthrise Ironhide/Ratchet mold. In fact, I might say that Guard wears that mold best with his black color scheme hiding a lot of the limitations of the design.

I agree. It's nice to have repaints using one mold and "original" versions in other (better?) molds. I've got Legends Arcee and Siege Paradron Medic for example. Because of that, I've also got Ratchet, so I might not get SS86 Ratchet but instead just replace my awful Siege Ironhide. With Guard, I'll be able to also enjoy that mold (When it finally gets to us in Japan).

Oh for F's sake, grow up.
No, really.

All that talk about whenever these are "adult collectibles" or not are simply your immature inner child who want to grow up and look "adult". Collecting toys is a childish and shameful thing for an adult. That's how children who want to look "grow up" think. So to justify the toy collecting, THE KID want the things to be labelled as "adult" so that the kid feels "grown up".

Even if you're 30yo, you can still have that childish attitude. Yeah, even I was guilty of it 10 years ago.

A REAL ADULT will collect whatever the F they want without giving any F about their labels.

Collectors barely factor in toy buying ... but we're constantly inundated with G1 characters to the point where there's been entire lines just catering to G1.

I mean the older Generations lines definitely reflects a "fans second" approach. There were a couple of G1nners (usually deluxes) with a heavy load of movie inspired characters on it's best day. But now we have a commander class Rodimus Prime and an entire line focused on a movie from 30 years ago. I have to admit I haven't watched Cyberverse - I tried, but it just skewed too young. Is there really enough overlap to justify all the G1 focused stuff?

G1 is nostalgia bait so that parents introduce Transformers to their children. It's parents who are holding the purses string after all.

primalxconvoy wrote:

Emerje wrote:
What you keep stating is that it's 15+ isn't adult, and you're right, that's the 18+ designation. I'm saying 15+ is the the universal cut off for collectibles, it has nothing to do with safety or contents.

You're partially right. However, "collectibles" (aimed at adults) and "toys" (aimed at children) follow different legal requirements (drop tests, toxicity of materials etc). Thus, your final point is incorrect.

What I'm saying is that just because something says 15+ it doesn't necessarily mean it's unsafe for someone under 15. Like I said before, that's the "collectibles" limit. Aside from 18+ the age limit is really just an arbitrary guideline made up for marketing purposes. Hasbro themselves raised the Generations age to 8+ when they started doing more lines for younger kids.

I checked the age on 32 figure boxes in the Seibertron gallery, only 3 were listed as 15+, one of which had an exclusive repaint (Black Convoy) that was listed as 5+. 15+ was an anomaly and possibly even an error, it was far from being the rule. It had nothing to do with the comics, there's more objectionable content in Weekly Shonen Jump. I think you're misremembering this.

Although I can't/won't check through all of my own boxes, I don't believe I've misremembered things. Most of the boxes for the Japanese version of Titans Returns ("Legends") were indeed 15+.

You really expect me to believe that the 29 random Legends figures in the Seibertron Gallery covering the full span of the Legacy line, including a large number the molds from Titans Return, with 5+ age ratings just happen to be the minority? Sorry, but I find that impossible to believe.

As for the comics, I disagree. The sexualised themes were enough to either warrant the 15+ designation or be "acceptable" to accompany such as product aimed at that age group. I disagree that Shonen Jump featured equivalent content. My Japanese friends, who are themselves mothers, found the content of the pack-in comics questionable (ironically as they assumed the toys were aimed at younger children).

You can disagree all you want, you're wrong. Just because mothers find it "questionable" doesn't change the fact that they're far less objectionable than the content of manga that's directed at all ages like, as I mentioned before, the contents of Weekly Shonen Jump which is intended for young teens 12+ though it's popular with elementary kids. One Piece has content FAR more "questionable" than anything in the Legends comics and it's the most popular manga in Japan.

Legal adulthood is now 18 in Japan like in the US, though things like gambling and alcohol are still off limits until 20.

Indeed it is, which was a recent change. However, as you stated, some things are not still permissable:

"...Not everything changed when the age of adulthood dropped to 18. Even though you are an adult, in Japan you are not allowed to:

Buy alcoholic beverages.
Buy tobacco.Gamble and bet on things like horse races.
Enter the national pension system.

The legal age for all of the above is still 20..."

(Source: - https://japan-forward.com/japans-legal- ... that-stay/ )

However, compared to the UK, where "adulthood" is, for most things, 18, socially it could be argued that in Japan/US, the age of adulthood is still possibly 21. Regardless, it's not "15".

Legal adult is legal adult, it doesn't matter if there are restrictions. And I'll remind you that you're the one that brought this up.

SS86 Perceptor is 5+, SS figures put it right on the front of the box instead of the back or bottom like other Transformers.

Thank you, yes, that's true. The safety instructions still state that it's not suitable for anyone under 3 years though, if my translation is correct.

Yes, that's what it says. But that goes back what I said before about the age limits being an arbitrary number. Safe for isn't the same as intended for, they all have to hit the same safety standards. Heck, even high end collectibles that don't have to follow the safety standards will still have the warning just to cover their butts.

I think they realized that selling Transformers to kids was potentially taking away from other robot lines they were trying to promote to the same audience. They're still trying to push Zoids the last I saw and there's that new one I can't remember the name of with the little police robots and vehicles. I think the whole brand unification came about because Hasbro wanted to lean heavy into cartoon accuracy with WFC which was already TT and they just jumped in early with PotP.

Emerje

I think that might be partially true, but I believe Takara were also spending too much money on "cartoon accurate" CHUG figures and realised they could simply release MPs in that style and either release Hasbro's usual lackluster paint schemes, or possibly pay half with them to make fairly decent figures, somewhere between the (paint) quality of the two companies.

When I look at WFC figures, especially ER and Kingdom I have to wonder just what Takara Tomy would have done different. And aside from removing the dry brush "damage" I've got nothing.

As for more evidence of the "15+" state of Takara TFs, see below.

Nobody's saying they don't exist, just that they aren't the norm. There's plenty of examples of brand new Studio Series figures that just came out and are rated 5+. There's no obvious reason for why TT gives certain figures certain age ratings.

Emerje

And what does Death think? Well...

A number of folks seem to be almost defending the hike in price, and the reduction in size, by going on about the 'part count'. But it wasn't that long ago that voyager figures had the bigger size, AND a lower price, AND a higher part count. Like the Thrilling 30 voyagers, for example. I still hold 30s Springer and Sandstorm up as a gold standard of Voyager figures. Sure, that line also gave us one of the crappiest Voyager Blitzwings, but still...

Ditto for the Leader figures. They used to be larger, less expensive, and you could normally expect them to include electronic lights and sounds. Now they're smaller, more expensive, they have no electronics, and the only real justification is "well, they have a few more accessories".

The simple truth when you boil it all down, is that Hasbro is reacting to the global economic downturn by charging us more, and giving us less. Like many other companies, they are jacking up their prices to cover the increased costs of production and distribution. They are also trying to disguise it (or make it slightly less overt) by keeping the price CLOSE to what it was before, but reducing the amount of product you get. Also with rhetorical shell games about 'engineering levels' and 'part counts'. But as the saying goes, no matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.

As for Ironhide? Well, setting aside PvP's dubious early access - I think he was rougher on ER Ironhide than was necessary. He groused that the ER figure's legs were more hollow. But with SS Ironhide, the hollowness seems only to have migrated from the legs to the arms and hands. And since when has partsforming been an offense? There are plenty of current figures that use partsforming, even in the Studio Series line. Double more so if you count the battlemasters/target masters.

SS Ironhide does look pretty good. I may be tempted to sell my Autobot Alliance set and use the proceeds to get him instead. Frankly, I think the Prowl mold is the real dud of the group. If people want to complain about brittle, transparent plastic, and grossly hollow limbs? They need look no further than ER Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen.

-Kanrabat- wrote:G1 is nostalgia bait so that parents introduce Transformers to their children. It's parents who are holding the purses string after all.

I guess, but it seems like a real large glut of that.

....and in the end I'm so content with WFC Ironhide...'nuff said!

-Kanrabat- wrote:G1 is nostalgia bait so that parents introduce Transformers to their children. It's parents who are holding the purses string after all.

Not only that, but the thing everyone here is forgetting is that we have now reached a point where the brand managers and designers, those who choose how things look and what characters get made, are of the G1 generation. It started with John Warden, and that was never the case before, hence the slew of new characters we used to have for all the shows for the first 20 years of the brand.
As a brand manager, you can choose who you want to see on shelves. Warden wanted to see combiners again. So, he made a plan and figured out how he could reuse tooling to sell the idea for Hasbro corporate to greenlight selling it TO KIDS (and their parents). G1 is used because the people making the toys are fans of G1 and they want to use these legacy characters to sell toylines. Just as much in Cyberverse, and in upcoming Earthspark, as they are in Generations. But that doesnt change who their main consumers are, which is kids.

I have no clue why people buying toys in a kids toy aisle strive so much to think that they are the main consumers, how does that matter in your life? Why not accept the facts? It's pretty cool that due to you being the same age as the toy designers, you have similar interests in how the toys look. We live in a golden age of Transformers toys where there is enough to go around for everyone and everyone is welcome. And we have to keep it that way for the brand to thrive. We've seen brands collapse and not see the light of day for ages, let's not make the Transformers brand fall into that as well, let's keep everyone engaged in it, most especially kids. Without them, the brand can't be supported to make affordable toys at retail.

DeathReviews wrote:The simple truth when you boil it all down, is that Hasbro is reacting to the global economic downturn by charging us more, and giving us less. Like many other companies, they are jacking up their prices to cover the increased costs of production and distribution. They are also trying to disguise it (or make it slightly less overt) by keeping the price CLOSE to what it was before, but reducing the amount of product you get. Also with rhetorical shell games about 'engineering levels' and 'part counts'. But as the saying goes, no matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney.

That processus clearly began in the R.I.D. Prime / Generations F.O.C years.
The toys were getting smaller and cheaper but the prices remained the same. Then as the prices increased, the quality went up in Generations T-30. But before the quality took a nosedive again, the massive price hikes began with the movie toys in TLK.

Now, not only do the toys became smaller again, but the next mega price hike is also already starting. Canadian Toys R Us is the prelude.

Thanks to this Twitter post, we have news that the third wave of Transformers Studio Series core class figures have been found in the US. That includes Wheelie and Ratchet. If anyone is wondering, the only new core class figure in wave 2 was Exosuit Spike and in wave 4 we will have the DOTM Laserbeak (Bumblebee predeco toy) and SS86 Rumble (blue). The toys were found in a Target in Idaho but other subsequent sightings have popped up over the US, like in California. AHM Joy is the person who posted this sighting on Twitter.

For those needing some EAN/barcode numbers, here they are:

Ratchet: https://www.barcodelookup.com/5010994112141
Wheelie: https://www.barcodelookup.com/5010994112134

Sabrblade wrote:I've been a kid who buys and plays with Transformers for DECADES!

Me too! A wise man once said we don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing!

william-james88 wrote:I have no clue why people buying toys in a kids toy aisle strive so much to think that they are the main consumers, how does that matter in your life?

I just don't quite get their marketing. And it's not just TFs; Power Rangers Lightning collection also makes me scratch my head a bit. If I were a kid would I want characters from the franchise 20 years ago? I was a snob as a kid, so it wouldn't be for me. I find it hard to imagine a kid would really want Rodimus Prime all that much. So I'm trying to get how this works for Hasbro.

But if it's marketing to the parents, that's still targeting adults more than kids even if it's not "collectors".

It doesn't matter to my sense of self if the toys are aimed at me.