The Energon Pub

i'm just a solider

what does ultra magnus mean to me......... a white and blue repaint of prime.

lol jk jk um rid mangnus was pretty sweat because he was completely different from his g1 counterpart. personally i like him

as for the figure, i don't have it but i saw one at my local comice store and i tempted to buy him.

Lacks leadership training.

Auto Bot wrote:Lacks leadership training.

How so? He came across as a pretty good leader, didn't he?

Sledge wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Lacks leadership training.

How so? He came across as a pretty good leader, didn't he?

I just thought there are tell-tale signs.

1. Not quick enough to catch the most important device in all of the Autobot universe, the Matrix. As it drops off from dying Prime. Fortunately, Hot Rod was quick enough to react and catch it. Somehow, i thought it as the first sign that Magnus is gonna "drop the ball", and Hot Rod will eventually be the fitting leader.

2. Too dependent on the Matrix. As Galvatron pushes the few remaining Autobots into the corner at Junkion planet, Magnus was quick to jump to the ultimate weapon. A better leader would have exhausted all other means first, including escaping. And then save the ultimate card for a much bigger problem. Not for the sake of saving his own hide.

3. A leader always feel responsible for his group or followers. He wouldn't say, "I can't deal with that now.", when informed of his comrades falling off.

4. As a responsible leader, i would think Magnus should have passed on the Matrix to Kup or Springer, or any other available Autobot, as caretaker, and then stand his ground against Galvatron and his troops, to face the ultimate sacrifice. Protecting the Matrix will be the highest priority.

5. (This one is debatable.) During the battle for Autobot City, Magnus delegated the major tasks to his soldiers, and then fade out of the major action scenes. He's either not strong enough to get into the thick of the fight, or he's got his priorities skewed, attending to less important tasks behind the scene.

Just my observations.

You're basing it solely on the Movie? That seems a little... short-sighted. All through Season 3, Magnus comes across as a pretty steady guy, not prone to the rash decisions Hot Rod/Rodneymus Prime is. Judging him based on the Movie hardly seems fair, given that he's been thrust into leadership with no warning, and straight away is up against a bigger threat than anyone even imagined.

Sledge wrote:You're basing it solely on the Movie? That seems a little... short-sighted. All through Season 3, Magnus comes across as a pretty steady guy, not prone to the rash decisions Hot Rod/Rodneymus Prime is. Judging him based on the Movie hardly seems fair, given that he's been thrust into leadership with no warning, and straight away is up against a bigger threat than anyone even imagined.

Yup. Based on the Movie. I entered a "no tv" phase of my life after the Movie. So i wouldn't know how he performed after that.

Speaking of being thrust into leadership with no warning, up against a bigger threat, Hot Rod was in the same situation too, and much worse. In fact, he showed true leadership even before being upgraded into a leader.

Of course, still based solely on events up to the Movie only.

Recently i have read and watched bits and pieces of episodes after the Movie, and it seemed Rodimus' personality veered radically off course. I suspect this is intentional. To give way to the popular sentiment of bringing the dead Optimus back into the picture.

(I haven't seen Magnus in action in these bits of episodes i picked up.)

Rodimus didn't demonstrate any leadership in the Movie. He didn't exist long enough. He lobbed Galvatron into space and shouted "Let's get out of here!" as everything exploded.

Shouting "Let's get out of here!" will be un-leadership-like. (It was Springer who said that.)

What made Rodimus a leader is because he shouted, "Autobots, transform and roll out!"



As far as i can recall, i think only Autobot "Primes" use that line. Not even Ultra Magnus dare use that sacred line.

Anyway, Hot Rod demonstrated his leadership qualities and capacity before he was upgraded into a Prime. (Well, ok, he also demonstrated it after the upgrade, by throwing Galvatron off the Uni-head.)

But throughout the movie, there were a lot of crucial "turning points" or crucial "actions" delivered by Hot Rod, that saved the Autobots from total destruction or prevented mission failure. Maybe some are not specifically signs or qualifications for leadership, but at least, that makes him a very important Autobot.

First and foremost, Hot Rod was the one, with the help of Daniel, who detected the otherwise stealthy entry of Megatron's gang into Autobot City aboard the Autobot Shuttle. I would imagine if not for that crucial moment, Megatron would have arrived at the heart of Autobot City undetected, and slaughter the Autobots within. Maybe even without a fight. Which will then be the end of the Autobot's campaign to retake Cybertron.

Then, he was the one who caught the falling Matrix. Maybe not crucial with this one, but at least symbolic. (The Matrix won't break upon crashing to the floor, will it?)

Hot Rod saved and fixed Kup.

Hot Rod put up a good fight against the insurmountable odds of battling millions of Sharkticons. Kup helped too. But you can see clearly that it was Hot Rod spear-heading and never wanting to give up. Fighting to the last drop of energy. (In contrast, Magnus simply gave up his gun, and turned to the Matrix for deliverance.)
This act did not save the entire Cybertronian race, but it did saved 2 Autobots, namely Hot Rod and Kup, until help arrived. Is that leadership or what?

Hot Rod turned an erstwhile hostile army of Junkions into allies.

It was Hot Rod's resolve and leadership that brought the remaining Autobots and Junkions to battle Unicron. A true leader.

During the flight to Unicron, when their ship was critically hit and knock off-course by Unicron's "eye-beam", it was Hot Rod who pulled the ship back into the correct course. Able to act under pressure.

And of course, puny Hot Rod with a gigantic courage, dared to fight the powerful Galvatron. Not because he has to prove himself, but because of the most important goal of retrieving the Matrix from Galva's hands.

Ultra "I can't Deal With It Now" Magnus?

He's actually quite okay, just the somewhat bland characterization.

Auto Bot wrote:First and foremost, Hot Rod was the one, with the help of Daniel, who detected the otherwise stealthy entry of Megatron's gang into Autobot City aboard the Autobot Shuttle. I would imagine if not for that crucial moment, Megatron would have arrived at the heart of Autobot City undetected, and slaughter the Autobots within. Maybe even without a fight. Which will then be the end of the Autobot's campaign to retake Cybertron.

That's nothing to do with leadership.

Then, he was the one who caught the falling Matrix. Maybe not crucial with this one, but at least symbolic. (The Matrix won't break upon crashing to the floor, will it?)

Still nothing to do with leadership.

Hot Rod saved and fixed Kup.

Nope, not leadership.

Hot Rod put up a good fight against the insurmountable odds of battling millions of Sharkticons. Kup helped too. But you can see clearly that it was Hot Rod spear-heading and never wanting to give up. Fighting to the last drop of energy. (In contrast, Magnus simply gave up his gun, and turned to the Matrix for deliverance.) This act did not save the entire Cybertronian race, but it did saved 2 Autobots, namely Hot Rod and Kup, until help arrived. Is that leadership or what?

No.

Hot Rod turned an erstwhile hostile army of Junkions into allies.
It was Hot Rod's resolve and leadership that brought the remaining Autobots and Junkions to battle Unicron. A true leader.

Now we're getting somewhere.

During the flight to Unicron, when their ship was critically hit and knock off-course by Unicron's "eye-beam", it was Hot Rod who pulled the ship back into the correct course. Able to act under pressure.

That's "piloting" not "leadership."

And of course, puny Hot Rod with a gigantic courage, dared to fight the powerful Galvatron. Not because he has to prove himself, but because of the most important goal of retrieving the Matrix from Galva's hands.

OR: Hot Rod, faced with an insanely powerful Decepticon and nowhere to run, decided to go down fighting. He got lucky.

All the things you list add up to Hot Rod being a pretty good soldier. But a leader? No. One of the things I've always disliked about the Movie is the message that Hot Rod puts across. Compare to Luke Skywalker: Luke starts out as an impetuous youth, and during the course of his adventures, learns that he needs to control those impulses. Hot Rod starts out as an impetuous youth... and stays there until he gets lucky. "Hey, kids! It doesn't matter how badly you screw up because the magic maguffin will fix everything!"

hot rod never wanted to be leader and even constantly doubted himself once he became prime (much like optimus)

all the points raised by autobot my not be 'leadership qualities' but are all qualities that a leader should have and to say he got lucky is a bit harsh on the lad, it was his destiny afterall

Rubbish. The prophecy was clear: an Autobot would use the power of the Matrix to light their darkest hour. Prime did that in Return Part 2.

't was his destiny i tell ya- he did what magnus couldn't, beat Galvatron and relesed the matrix's energy to light there darkest hour even if optimus came back to do it again

i forgot to mention the fact that primus bears an uncanny resembleace to rodimus

Sledge wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:First and foremost, Hot Rod was the one, with the help of Daniel, who detected the otherwise stealthy entry of Megatron's gang into Autobot City aboard the Autobot Shuttle. I would imagine if not for that crucial moment, Megatron would have arrived at the heart of Autobot City undetected, and slaughter the Autobots within. Maybe even without a fight. Which will then be the end of the Autobot's campaign to retake Cybertron.

That's nothing to do with leadership.

Then, he was the one who caught the falling Matrix. Maybe not crucial with this one, but at least symbolic. (The Matrix won't break upon crashing to the floor, will it?)

Still nothing to do with leadership.

Hot Rod saved and fixed Kup.

Nope, not leadership.

Hot Rod put up a good fight against the insurmountable odds of battling millions of Sharkticons. Kup helped too. But you can see clearly that it was Hot Rod spear-heading and never wanting to give up. Fighting to the last drop of energy. (In contrast, Magnus simply gave up his gun, and turned to the Matrix for deliverance.) This act did not save the entire Cybertronian race, but it did saved 2 Autobots, namely Hot Rod and Kup, until help arrived. Is that leadership or what?

No.

Hot Rod turned an erstwhile hostile army of Junkions into allies.
It was Hot Rod's resolve and leadership that brought the remaining Autobots and Junkions to battle Unicron. A true leader.

Now we're getting somewhere.

During the flight to Unicron, when their ship was critically hit and knock off-course by Unicron's "eye-beam", it was Hot Rod who pulled the ship back into the correct course. Able to act under pressure.

That's "piloting" not "leadership."

And of course, puny Hot Rod with a gigantic courage, dared to fight the powerful Galvatron. Not because he has to prove himself, but because of the most important goal of retrieving the Matrix from Galva's hands.

OR: Hot Rod, faced with an insanely powerful Decepticon and nowhere to run, decided to go down fighting. He got lucky.

All the things you list add up to Hot Rod being a pretty good soldier. But a leader? No. One of the things I've always disliked about the Movie is the message that Hot Rod puts across. Compare to Luke Skywalker: Luke starts out as an impetuous youth, and during the course of his adventures, learns that he needs to control those impulses. Hot Rod starts out as an impetuous youth... and stays there until he gets lucky. "Hey, kids! It doesn't matter how badly you screw up because the magic maguffin will fix everything!"

You forgot to include this line from my previous message:
"Maybe some are not specifically signs or qualifications for leadership, but at least, that makes him a very important Autobot."

chronic wrote:'t was his destiny i tell ya- he did what magnus couldn't, beat Galvatron and relesed the matrix's energy to light there darkest hour even if optimus came back to do it again

He didn't beat Galvatron until he got his mitts on the Matrix. I suspect any Autobot in that position would have been similarly "powered up."

i forgot to mention the fact that primus bears an uncanny resembleace to rodimus

There is no Primus.

Auto Bot wrote:You forgot to include this line from my previous message:
"Maybe some are not specifically signs or qualifications for leadership, but at least, that makes him a very important Autobot."

How does that make him anymore important than, say, Springer? Or Jazz? Most of the Autobots are skilled and brave.

Sledge wrote:

chronic wrote:'t was his destiny i tell ya- he did what magnus couldn't, beat Galvatron and relesed the matrix's energy to light there darkest hour even if optimus came back to do it again

He didn't beat Galvatron until he got his mitts on the Matrix. I suspect any Autobot in that position would have been similarly "powered up."

not ultra magnus

i forgot to mention the fact that primus bears an uncanny resembleace to rodimus

There is no Primus.

Blasphemy!!

Auto Bot wrote:You forgot to include this line from my previous message:
"Maybe some are not specifically signs or qualifications for leadership, but at least, that makes him a very important Autobot."

How does that make him anymore important than, say, Springer? Or Jazz? Most of the Autobots are skilled and brave.

i messed that up

Ultra Magnus wasn't in that position.

And show me Primus in the cartoon.

I think Magnus is a swell guy who needed more development.

But then, so did everyone else.

ultra magnus faced off against galvatron and couldnt open the matrix, they were in pritty similar positions

primus may not have been seen in the cartoon but he definatly exsits (at least in my mind) im pritty sure hes been alluded to sevral times
besides he exsists in the comics and thats good enougth for me

Tekka wrote:I think Magnus is a swell guy who needed more development.

But then, so did everyone else.

truer words my friend

Magnus wasn't about to see his planet and it's entire population devoured.

Primus does not exist. Sorry.

And yes, Magnus has taken a lot of undeserved stick over a couple of lines in the Movie. Hell, the "I can't deal with that now" line was pretty reasonable in context. He can't worry about a ship that's been shot down when the one he's in is still under fire.

he was about to get destroyed him self though and he lost the matrix
hot rod took the matrix off galvatron then powered up

dont be sorry, primus dosn't exsist in your mind -fair do's
but the transformers were not made by slagin quitasons

arg- just spilt tea all over the carpet!!!

I like the Quintesson story a lot better than the Primus story. You can't really argue that fact in the cartoon though, the Quintesson are there and Primus isn't. It's a no brainer.

Sledge wrote:

chronic wrote:'t was his destiny i tell ya- he did what magnus couldn't, beat Galvatron and relesed the matrix's energy to light there darkest hour even if optimus came back to do it again

He didn't beat Galvatron until he got his mitts on the Matrix. I suspect any Autobot in that position would have been similarly "powered up."

i forgot to mention the fact that primus bears an uncanny resembleace to rodimus

There is no Primus.

Auto Bot wrote:You forgot to include this line from my previous message:
"Maybe some are not specifically signs or qualifications for leadership, but at least, that makes him a very important Autobot."

How does that make him anymore important than, say, Springer? Or Jazz? Most of the Autobots are skilled and brave.

Not any Autobot in that position would have achieved what Hot Rod did. Take Ultra Magnus for example. While Hot Rod fought his way to retrieve the Matrix, and eventually use it, Magnus wants to use the Matrix first even before lifting a fist against Galvatron, probably hoping he'd never had to do an epic battle with Galvatron.

While it's possible that "any" Autobot being strangled by Galvatron may be given a "power up" by the Matrix, the chance of "any" Autobot reaching that situation of being able to grab hold of the Matrix on Galva's neck will be quite slim. Mostly likely, that "any" Autobot would have been pulverized by Galvatron in a blink of an eye. Not many Autobots possess the combination of skills, speed, fervor, sense of duty, wit, quick-thinking, and courage that Hot Rod was build with.

The irony of it is that Magnus has the Matrix before facing Galvatron, and yet, he lost it. While Hot Rod have to fight Galvatron to reach the Matrix.

Although Springer, Jazz, and a number of other Autobots are crucially important, NONE of them comes close as important at Hot Rod. (Save for Optimus Prime.) The reason(s)? Scroll up and read my long speech.

the quintasons are liers

im not to keen on eather origin, i like the idea of the transformers not knowing and having kind of religions