The Energon Pub

Bonecrusher-522 wrote:All im going to say is that the movie was great and the best movie i ever seen. I never doubted this movie for a second. Cant wait for part 2. Michael Bay is god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone else noticed that ryan seems to have these advertising bots all over the forums ever since the advertisers started selling movie merchandise?(quote related)

Bonecrusher-522 wrote:All im going to say is that the movie was great and the best movie i ever seen. I never doubted this movie for a second. Cant wait for part 2. Michael Bay is god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll say again what I have already said to an other here........your ether young or you havent seen many films.

Or you have only seen some pretty bad films

homelessjunkeon wrote:Anyone else noticed that ryan seems to have these advertising bots all over the forums ever since the advertisers started selling movie merchandise?(quote related)

I dont get your meening.

OK, here's what disturbed me about the movie.

In terms of advertising, it wasn't so much the product placement or the military propaganda in and of itself. It was the fact that it was all way overdone in many areas.

I'm not an extremist. I'm not going to be unrealistic and say that there shouldn't being any product placement or military advertising. But when you have to show the brand names of everything over and over again... When you have to show not just the military or their jets and vehicles, but closeup shots of them with their names over and over again... I don't mind brief glimpses of products or the military. But the movie just went too far.

I actually thought the movie's portrayal of the military soldiers was respectful for the most part. Whether it was realistic was another question. But, for the most part, the soldiers were not portrayed as unrealistically stupid and bloodthirsty like they have been portrayed as in other films. The movie might have been portraying them in an equally unrealistic positive light, but that's another story. And I say for the most part, because not all the soldiers were portrayed in a respectful light.

What bugged me the most about the movie was the over-the-top, nonstop, and out-of-place humor, racism, sexism, nationalism, and the over-empowerment of the military at the expense of the Autobots.

This movie had to throw in corny and cheesy humor in just about every scene, including scenes that required complete seriousness. The human characters themselves, especially Glen and Sam, greatly contributed to the over-kill of cheesy humor, especially in all the wrong places, with their over-acting. Sam and Glen would have been much more believable and convincing characters if they just acted a little more like normal people. Was Sam banging his head on Bumblebee's hood and talking like a goofball throughout much of this film really necessary? Same with Glen's characterization? Did that really add to character development and contribute to the overall movie? I don't mind some humor. But not overly cheesy and immature humor in all the wrong places like this movie had. It seems as if Bay and company were trying to tell the audience the whole time not to take this movie seriously insteading of leaving the audience to make that decision itself. And yes, there was WAY too much time devoted to the human characters, who, for the most part, did not really get any character development at all being corny stereotypes at best. The Autobots and Decepticons got very little time and development. And they too were made into cornballs. Prime saying "my bad" was totally out of character for him. Spending 20 minutes hiding and not being smart enough or quiet enough to not destroy Sam's parents' yard? Come on? Prime not wanting to attempt to rescue Bumblebee? Yes, I understand that Prime did not want to hurt any humans. But Prime in G1 at least considered, and was smart enough to come up with, alternatives. This Prime seemed like all he did was grunt and groan throughout the movie with the word, "Cuuuuube". He didn't seem to care whatsoever about Jazz after being torn in two by Megatron. Yeah, he says, "Oh Jazz", towards the end. But then dismisses him by saying something to the effect of, "We lost an old comrade, but it doesn't matter. Because we gained some new ones in the form of the human soldiers." This is not the Prime I remember. Yes, Prime cared about humans. But he equally cared about his fellow bots. This movie Prime just acts like an insensitive jerk! He'll even sacrifice is most honorable fellow Autobots for the most evil and twisted humans.

I'm wondering if Bumblebee choses to live with Sam, because he's angry that Prime didn't give a crap about him?

So if some evil and twisted humans, like Cobra Commander, had Elita 1 in their possession, and were threatening to kill her, would he refuse to go after her to, putting the welfare of those evil humans above the love of his life? As a human, I know what my choice would be. I would rather save any noble bot over any evil human! Hey maybe that's why Prime needs the human military!

The movie's disturbing American nationalism showed in the treatment of the hispanic soldier. I've worked with many hispanic men and women. And I can tell you, that unlike this soldier, they only spoke spanish to someone they knew understood the language. This guy just speaks it to everyone and is then told to stop. Sounds like a jab at anyone who doesn't speak the national language, English. So is this movie saying that all immigrants are supposed to completely assimilate and forget their language and roots? Do those behind this movie, including Michael Bay, have a beef with Hispanics.

And the treatment of the Indian Call Center employee was disturbing as well. Yes, many United State's jobs have been transported overseas and that has become a problem here. But the life of these Indian employees is no cake walk. I have read about the long hours they have to work and the abuse they have to take under their employers. Maybe this Indian employee should have been treated in a more humane and sensitive manner instead of as an obnoxious and uncaring person?

I am very disturbed by how black people, especially black women, are portrayed in this movie. Bobby's mother and Glen's grandmother are both portrayed as stereotypical "mammies" and/or just as "bitchy old ladies". And what's more disturbing is how Bobby and Glen treat them. Again, Bobby calls his mother by the insulting title, "Mammy". Glen tells his grandmother to just "Shut up!" What is this movie promoting? That older black women deserve no respect from black men, let alone men of other colors? That black women are not even human? So many other women, including Makaela in some scenes, are treated as nothing more than shallow objects and sex objects at that. Except for the older black women who are given the most revolting image of all because they are not the young attractive white women, but instead, older and black.

And let's have a look at three main black male characters in the movie: Epps, Bobby, and Glen. Bobby is a successful or somewhat successful business man as a used car salesman. But he is not portrayed as respectable. Instead he is portrayed as shady and somewhat of a crook and con artist. Glen is portrayed as a genius. He is smart enough to unlock the Decepticon code. He is extremely intelligent, but portrayed as a "loser" who lives with his annoying grandmother, acts corny, and eats junkfood all the time. Now let's look at the black man who's in the military: Epps. He's portrayed throughout the movie as mostly heroic and respectable. So what is this movie with its racism and military propaganda implying? That though black men have the ability to be extremely intelligent and successful economically, if they do so on their own, they will only wind up not respectable in any way? That in order for a black man to be really respectable, he should not strive for more education and intelligent endeavors, nor try to open a business and improve his economic standing? Instead, if a black man wants to become a decent and respectable human being, he should join the military instead? Oh yeah, what a great message to send to all black males and other males of color, especially in light of the fact that military recruiters greatly target poor performing schools in poor areas that oftentimes have large minority populations! What a great message indeed! Let's go tell that one to all the parents of color who bought their children Transformers toys!

And yes, the military's heroism was portrayed at the expense of the heroism of the Autobots and Optimus Prime in particular to promote more military propaganda. While Prime was basically getting his ass handed to him by Megatron, the military was there backing him up with their fighter jets bombing the hell out of megatron. I guess Prime, though he handed Bonecrusher his ass, just couldn't hold his own against Megatron for any length of time. If it wasn't for the military interviening, would Megatron have defeated him? I'm sorry, but Prime and the Autobots, not the military and Sam, should have been the true heros of this movie! I don't mind Sam and the military assisting the Autobots, but not at the expense of the Autobot's heroism.

If the sequel is to be a decent film, it needs to rid itself of all the sexist, racist, nationalist, and propagandizing mistakes of the first film as listed above.

Dude why are u over analizing this so much? It's an action movie, it's not ment to be a drama that u have to take every single detail into acount. The immaurity thing? Get real, any teen acts like that. I mean think about it if you're around a girl you like wouldn't you have trouble knowing what to say? And the immigrant thing, it's not that they should forget their own culture, but they should at least speak English around us. They would prolly want us to do the same if we were in their country.

Nice post.I'll start with saying welcome to Seibertron and

Warning!!!!! Seibertron Contains Nuts.!!!!!!!!

And I'll just touch on a few things.

moldavite wrote:The movie's disturbing American nationalism showed in the treatment of the hispanic soldier. I've worked with many hispanic men and women. And I can tell you, that unlike this soldier, they only spoke spanish to someone they knew understood the language. This guy just speaks it to everyone and is then told to stop. Sounds like a jab at anyone who doesn't speak the national language, English. So is this movie saying that all immigrants are supposed to completely assimilate and forget their language and roots? Do those behind this movie, including Michael Bay, have a beef with Hispanics.

As I said I am "hispanic" even thou I look "Irish" and I cant tell you how many times an other hispanic person switch to spanish while talking to me and others knowing well that no one understood them.

Most were shocked to find out that I understood them.

moldavite wrote:And the treatment of the Indian Call Center employee was disturbing as well. Yes, many United State's jobs have been transported overseas and that has become a problem here. But the life of these Indian employees is no cake walk. I have read about the long hours they have to work and the abuse they have to take under their employers. Maybe this Indian employee should have been treated in a more humane and sensitive manner instead of as an obnoxious and uncaring person?

But have you ever called any of those "Call centers" for tech support????Face it....wether the life of these Indian employees is a cake walk or nor....most of the experances'es that I have with them when I need to call them are very simular to the events of the film [besides the explosions] I normally have to go threw two different guys and then a supervisor just to figure out how to his the start button.

The way I see it the events of those scenes were just a reflection of simular events in the real world.

moldavite wrote:I don't mind Sam and the military assisting the Autobots, but not at the expense of the Autobot's heroism.

I didnt feel that the Autobots were any less heroic.....just less effective.Needing the help of the human military is not a sign of the movie bots lacking heroism...at best it was a sign that they were incompetent.

Why shouldn't people analyze things? Anyone who has ever studied media will do that regardless of what the movie is. Anybody with a thirst for narrative will do that. As will someone who is a fan of a particular series such as Transformers. Can you honestly say you've not sat through a movie and thought "this could be better if that weren't there or this was changed"?

Taking things at face value is all well and good, but if we just plod along and accept all we're given without complaining nothing improves and people get by just doing the bare minimum they can get away with.

And not only is it constructive and provides valuable feedback to those who (should) listen to it. It's also good fun to pick apart something you like and see how it works, then put it back together in a way you think makes it better.

It's all in good fun.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Nice post.I'll start with saying welcome to Seibertron and

Warning!!!!! Seibertron Contains Nuts.!!!!!!!!

And I'll just touch on a few things.

moldavite wrote:The movie's disturbing American nationalism showed in the treatment of the hispanic soldier. I've worked with many hispanic men and women. And I can tell you, that unlike this soldier, they only spoke spanish to someone they knew understood the language. This guy just speaks it to everyone and is then told to stop. Sounds like a jab at anyone who doesn't speak the national language, English. So is this movie saying that all immigrants are supposed to completely assimilate and forget their language and roots? Do those behind this movie, including Michael Bay, have a beef with Hispanics.

As I said I am "hispanic" even thou I look "Irish" and I cant tell you how many times an other hispanic person switch to spanish while talking to me and others knowing well that no one understood them.

Most were shocked to find out that I understood them.

moldavite wrote:And the treatment of the Indian Call Center employee was disturbing as well. Yes, many United State's jobs have been transported overseas and that has become a problem here. But the life of these Indian employees is no cake walk. I have read about the long hours they have to work and the abuse they have to take under their employers. Maybe this Indian employee should have been treated in a more humane and sensitive manner instead of as an obnoxious and uncaring person?

But have you ever called any of those "Call centers" for tech support????Face it....wether the life of these Indian employees is a cake walk or nor....most of the experances'es that I have with them when I need to call them are very simular to the events of the film [besides the explosions] I normally have to go threw two different guys and then a supervisor just to figure out how to his the start button.

The way I see it the events of those scenes were just a reflection of simular events in the real world.

moldavite wrote:I don't mind Sam and the military assisting the Autobots, but not at the expense of the Autobot's heroism.

I didnt feel that the Autobots were any less heroic.....just less effective.Needing the help of the human military is not a sign of the movie bots lacking heroism...at best it was a sign that they were incompetent.

So I'm a nut for wanting to address this movie's blatant racism, sexism, and nationalism? Last I knew, I was living in the more enlightened and tolerant 21st century. I guess not.

You have had different experiences with Spanish speaking people and Indian call center employees than I have. Though I have not found the advice of the Indian call center employees to be helpful, I could tell by the tone of their voice and their determination that they were trying their best to help me. They weren't being obnoxious and indifferent as the Indian worker was stereotypically portrayed in the movie. They simply did not have the training, knowledge of U.S. culture, and mastery of the English language to be of more assistance.

Ok, less competent might have been a better term. But I still find it unsettling that the military was portrayed as being the most effective and competent ones over a race of far more advanced robots. Doesn't just scream bad plot device and the diminishing of this movie's supposed-to-be heros: the Autobots. It screams military propaganda being used in this film as a brainwashing recruitment tool.

Well, in the end, I really don't care if others here agree or disagree with this post. I do not care if others call me a nut. I posted this message out of hope that those behind this film will view it and consider eliminating all the corny, racist, nationalist, sexist, and propagandizing features of the first film from the second film.

I as much as anyone here wants a decent sequel!

moldavite wrote:So I'm a nut for wanting to address this movie's blatant racism, sexism, and nationalism?

I didnt call you a nut.

Warning!!!!! Seibertron Contains Nuts.!!!!!!!!

Is the unerveral greeting here at Seibertron and I'm shocked that no one else has said it to you.If you check out any of the intruduction threads posted by new guys you'll see the same thing in almost every single one.

moldavite wrote: Last I knew, I was living in the more enlightened and tolerant 21st century. I guess not.

Funny I find little to nothing about our culture to be truly enlightened and tolerant.Slavery still exsists, honor killings, The U.S. goverment traiding on our fears to start a war, hate attacks on blacks and gays....need I go on????

I'm not sure about your racial back ground [and I dont meen to assume anything here] but for many of us that are victims of "real racism" the stereotypical portrails of some of the characters are an unimportant issue.

The world of the 21st century is far from a enlightened and tolerant Society.Heck the U.S. of the 21st century is far from a enlightened and tolerant Society.

moldavite wrote:You have had different experiences with Spanish speaking people and Indian call center employees than I have. Though I have not found the advice of the Indian call center employees to be helpful, I could tell by the tone of their voice and their determination that they were trying their best to help me. They weren't being obnoxious and indifferent as the Indian worker was stereotypically portrayed in the movie. They simply did not have the training, knowledge of U.S. culture, and mastery of the English language to be of more assistance.

You've been lucky.Its been my experience with those call centers that they have very little customer service training at all and are somewhat rude.

They seem to be impatiant with my lack of pc knowledge and seem to be under a time constraint.

The fact that I type very slow and tend to miss-spell what there telling me thens to irritate them as well.I have been hung up on more then once by these guys and now all I ever do is ask for a customer service specialist.

moldavite wrote:Ok, less competent might have been a better term. But I still find it unsettling that the military was portrayed as being the most effective and competent ones over a race of far more advanced robots. Doesn't just scream bad plot device and the diminishing of this movie's supposed-to-be heros: the Autobots. It screams military propaganda being used in this film as a brainwashing recruitment tool.

I felt the same thing about what you've called "military propaganda" but I was expecting it the second I heard that Mike Bay was doing the movie so it didnt shock me at all.

moldavite wrote:So I'm a nut for wanting to address this movie's blatant racism, sexism, and nationalism? Last I knew, I was living in the more enlightened and tolerant 21st century. I guess not.

You have had different experiences with Spanish speaking people and Indian call center employees than I have. Though I have not found the advice of the Indian call center employees to be helpful, I could tell by the tone of their voice and their determination that they were trying their best to help me. They weren't being obnoxious and indifferent as the Indian worker was stereotypically portrayed in the movie. They simply did not have the training, knowledge of U.S. culture, and mastery of the English language to be of more assistance.

Tolerant??? enlightened???? Are you having a laugh. The world is getting less and less tolerant by the day. Look at this thread for example, he uses the seibertron welcome, and you dont even read the thing properly and assume he's having a pop at you, which you then decide to throw back at him, which i think you will find is not very tolerant. look at things around the world, you only have to fart in the wrong direction and your being dubbed a racist, or sexist.

As for the call centre, i actually think that was under acted, i actually put up with problems with my net, car insurance etc, just so i dont have to call these places. Its terrible, i once tried to cancel my internet subscription and the woman didnt have a clue what i was saying, i then got passed onto her superior and he had a go at me for not being understanding that they were charging me a fortune for a phone call, and the person on the other end has less than a basic grasp of the english language................DONT BLOOMING EMPLOY HER THEN!!!!!! I didnt find this film racist or sexist, i'll tip my hat to you on the nationalist point, but saying that, pretty much every film we see makes the americans out to be superior, but i think on a whole we accept it, it doesnt bother me, it takes nothing away from the film, and at the end of the day those guys have made it, they are proud of their country, fair play to them. Would it make it better if the next film had the americans being portrayed as inbred idiots who run off crying whenever they see a big robot then you'd have hundreds of complaints from people saying that was an anti-national statment. America is a rich powerful country with a lot going for it, i say fair play to be proud of it, i wish people in this country would show the same pride more often.

When I was downrange, I once had to question a man about an accused insurgent. The man said, with a totally straight face, "He is a murderer, and so he must be a Jew."

And you think the Transformers movie is racist? What is wrong with you?

How about you go visit Sadr City, and then come back and tell me what you think is racist?

Pathetic.

Stop trolling.

-J

Everyone can say what they want but bottom line, The movie ruled. I loved everything about it including the new look of megatron which was so much better then the original. As big of a megatron fan as i am, I never thought for one second that he didnt look good in his movie form. Every character from that movie was so good on the big screen. From prime to bumble bee to starscream and so on. It was a action movie. A movie ment to be fun and exciting. Everyone who didnt like it should just chill out and stop analizing it so much. You know at one point or another you got that chill down your spine from the sight of seeing a transformer in living form on the screen. Be happy that the movie was a success unlike spiderman 3 which was a joke. Michael Bay did a great job and everyone needs to give the man some respect for turning our love of transformers into a living world and showing it respect with a great action film. Great cast, Great robots, Bring on the sequel.

I'm not sure that people are over-analysing, as such. I didn't sit in the cinema analysing the film, but the stereotypical representations were there, as clear as day. I chose to ignore it and enjoy the work, much as one can sit back and enjoy films from earlier decades that contain potentially offensive material. It seemed rather a throwback in that sense. But some people tend to get offended, others do not. I saw the film with a 90% black audience, who laughed uproariously, which is not to say it was necessarily inoffensive. Other black people, who do not perhaps attend screenings of summer blockbusters and eat popcorn, may likely find material in it that may offend them.

I was disturbed by other elements. The gung-ho macho style is at odds with my temperament, and Mrs. Automata couldn't stop tittering all the way through the opening sequence. I must admit I was tickled also, but I then endeavoured to give the film its due appreciation.

I enjoy it, on a dvd, nowadays, when alone. I lower my expectations accordingly and then appreciate it for what it is. The problem is taking on board what seem to be the interests and enthusiasms of Michael Bay, to whose work I come newly. There are attractive women and that is acceptable, but the camera seemed to spend much time perving over motor vehicles, and over the military generally, in a way that sets the whole mood of the piece. It was very pure in this way, in that it tends not to hide its slavering admiration. I came out thinking that Mr. Bay must be a very strange man indeed.

Well i was a G1 purist, and for the intial build up to the movie i was dead set against it, it actaully came down to a TF collector friend of mine practically dragging me to see it. and even though i was all prepared to hate it, i could not help but like it...and that feeling has only grown.

the designed are completely different than G1, true, but really think about it, do you think the pure G1 designs would have worked in a live action movie? I am not so sure now.

bottomline for me is... although I still love G1 above all the rest, I have grown to love the Tf movie continuity. Sure i didn't love everything about the movie, but overall for what it was? I loved it.

jboyler2 wrote:When I was downrange, I once had to question a man about an accused insurgent. The man said, with a totally straight face, "He is a murderer, and so he must be a Jew."

And you think the Transformers movie is racist? What is wrong with you?

How about you go visit Sadr City, and then come back and tell me what you think is racist?

Pathetic.

Stop trolling.

-J

You know what? Please.


1. He's not trolling to come on here and state his opinion. Trolling would be to come on and constantly berate people and nothing else.

2. Why can't he be upset about profiling in the movie? Of course Sadr City in a war zone is going to contain much worse, and dangerous, racism. But stereotyping in our culture is still not something that should be ignored.

At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I'm sick of people saying "There's worse, so shut up." Only if people are acting like those worse things aren't so bad, which I in no way mean to do here, is it necessary to turn problems into a contest.

I have never experienced war, and I know I can't grasp the enormity of what you must have seen. Of course Sadr City is worse. If anyone debates that, they're crazy. But it's almost apples and oranges to use it in this case.


Racism like that exists in the US. All over. The reason people get upset over little stereotypes is because they are a symptom of that very same racism. We are simply mad that the TF movie of all things had to stoop way lower than it needed to for a summer blockbuster, and be part of the problem. Bringing war stories and examples of much worse problems into the issue is like using a bulldozer to remove a mailbox.

Dark Zarak wrote:

jboyler2 wrote:When I was downrange, I once had to question a man about an accused insurgent. The man said, with a totally straight face, "He is a murderer, and so he must be a Jew."

And you think the Transformers movie is racist? What is wrong with you?

How about you go visit Sadr City, and then come back and tell me what you think is racist?

Pathetic.

Stop trolling.

-J

You know what? Please.


1. He's not trolling to come on here and state his opinion. Trolling would be to come on and constantly berate people and nothing else.

2. Why can't he be upset about profiling in the movie? Of course Sadr City in a war zone is going to contain much worse, and dangerous, racism. But stereotyping in our culture is still not something that should be ignored.

At the risk of sounding like an asshole, I'm sick of people saying "There's worse, so shut up." Only if people are acting like those worse things aren't so bad, which I in no way mean to do here, is it necessary to turn problems into a contest.

I have never experienced war, and I know I can't grasp the enormity of what you must have seen. Of course Sadr City is worse. If anyone debates that, they're crazy. But it's almost apples and oranges to use it in this case.


Racism like that exists in the US. All over. The reason people get upset over little stereotypes is because they are a symptom of that very same racism. We are simply mad that the TF movie of all things contained words like mammie. We are mad that it had to stoop way lower than it needed to for a summer blockbuster, and be part of the problem. Bringing war stories and examples of much worse problems into the issue is like using a bulldozer to remove a mailbox.

Nice anaolgy but let m ask you this.......why do words like "Mammie" have to be considered stereotypical when used by a black character any more then the word "Nana" when used by a white character or "Wela" when used by a hispanic????

There all "term's of endearment" for the name "grandmom" for different ethnic back grounds.I'm from Brooklyn and of mixed Hispanic and Afro-American decent and I grew up surrounded by black kids that called their grandmothers "Mammie" and white kids that called their grandmothers "Nanny or Nana".Not to mention what we called our grandmother being mostly Hispanic.

When is it not a "stereotype" but just a reflection of cultural differences that do in fact exist in todays world???

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Nice anaolgy but let m ask you this.......why do words like "Mammie" have to be considered stereotypical when used by a black character any more then the word "Nana" when used by a white character or "Wela" when used by a hispanic????

There all "term's of endearment" for the name "grandmom" for different ethnic back grounds.I'm from Brooklyn and of mixed Hispanic and Afro-American decent and I grew up surrounded by black kids that called their grandmothers "Mammie" and white kids that called their grandmothers "Nanny or Nana".Not to mention what we called our grandmother being mostly Hispanic.

When is it not a "stereotype" but just a reflection of cultural differences that do in fact exist in todays world???

It appears that I misunderstood mammie. I thought it was derogatory term for an old lady.

But however it goes, Moldavite's point still stands that black people were shown to be obnoxious unless in the military.

And my point still stands that stereotyping is important to pay attention to.

Dark Zarak wrote:
It appears that I misunderstood mammie. I thought it was derogatory term for an old lady.

Its been known to be used twards old ladies too but I dont know if I'd call that derogatory at its face value.

I've heard plenty of old guys called "gramps" in a number of ways.I guess it depends on the content of the conversation.

Dark Zarak wrote:But however it goes, Moldavite's point still stands that black people were shown to be obnoxious unless in the military.

And my point still stands that stereotyping is important to pay attention to.

To me thats a bit of a double standered.

We saaw one "obnoxious" black guy and one not so "obnoxious" black guy.I dont see that as stereotyping because we also saw a "obnoxious" pick white police officer and then a nice white guy in Sam's father.

We also saw one "obnoxious" Indian call center worker and then a nice Arab kid and his father.

To me that seems pretty fair and evened out and Ill also say very much like the real world.

I just dont see how it can be called "stereotyping" when the actions and behaivors were present in characters of different colors.

If all the "obnoxious" guys were black and all the nice guys were white then you might have a point but the film had its fair share of "obnoxious" white guys.

I think you read too deeply into my point.


I of course agree with you. The whole movie was obnoxious, even Lennox's baby for God's sake.


I only mentioned the black guys who were obnoxious because they were already the subject matter of the discussion. The other obnoxious people were just not relevant to the point at that time.

It's a matter of semantics I think.

Dark Zarak wrote:I think you read too deeply into my point.


I of course agree with you. The whole movie was obnoxious, even Lennox's baby for God's sake.


I only mentioned the black guys who were obnoxious because they were already the subject matter of the discussion. The other obnoxious people were just not relevant to the point at that time.

It's a matter of semantics I think.

oooooooooooo, so he responds to your exact words, and he's reading too much into it, but you see a couple of so called obnoxious people who happen to be foa different colour and that means the film is racist. Watch anything with bernie mac in it, hes always like that. I must admit, either your deffinition of obnoxious is totally different to mine, or youve seen a different transformers film, because from where i was watching the film, B mac was deffinately not obnoxious, he was a bit of comedy, put in there for a laugh, but again the PC (and i dont mean personal computor squad either ) squad have to come out and read so far it to it they are seeing out of the other side.

Dark Zarak wrote:I think you read too deeply into my point.


I of course agree with you. The whole movie was obnoxious, even Lennox's baby for God's sake.


I only mentioned the black guys who were obnoxious because they were already the subject matter of the discussion. The other obnoxious people were just not relevant to the point at that time.

It's a matter of semantics I think.

How in the hell is a newborn baby that's in a movie for two minutes defined as "obnoxious" ? That's so far out there I can't even fathom that right now.

obnoxious characters exist in movies, following this line of thinking (color before anything else) which colors are ok to be the obnoxious ones?

***Galvatron*** wrote:How in the hell is a newborn baby that's in a movie for two minutes defined as "obnoxious" ? That's so far out there I can't even fathom that right now.

I seem to recall a fart joke involving that baby. How is that not obnoxious? They can't even have a baby without making it fart. It's stupid.

And don't bother riding my nuts about that, like I'm some Church soccer mom who can't handle it. I'm just saying it's obnoxious.

Pottermus_Prime wrote:oooooooooooo, so he responds to your exact words, and he's reading too much into it, but you see a couple of so called obnoxious people who happen to be foa different colour and that means the film is racist.

So okay, I concede. It's not racist if everyone is equally as obnoxious. But that doesn't change the fact that everyone is obnoxious and therefore the movie is annoying, low-brow, and offensive. The only offensive and low-brow thing that I even like is South Park, and that's only because it's supposed to be that way, whereas the TF movie should not have been. And South Park is way more intelligent too, which is saying something.

The TF movie was dumb, even by Michael Bay standards. Even The Island is less obnoxious. And I don't want to hear "It was a summer action movie," because no other summer action movie was that insulting to my intelligence. From that very same summer, Die Hard was not moronic, and even Rise of the Silver Surfer and Spiderman 3 had less tasteless Primetime crap. In fact, most movies I watch are action movies, and they are not even close to the sheer retarded low that the TF movie reached with its humor.

And yes, I will see the sequels, and yes I'll complain about them too. I love Transformers, and most of the movie was awesome and I loved it, but the humor was terrible and Moldavite has every right to let it ruin the movie for him. I just put up with the humor (except right now because it's the topic), but some people don't even go that far.

Moldavite obviously has a university level liberal arts education, as do I. I understand and agree with each and every point he's made, I just put a little less importance on it (but I do put some).

I'd consider the baby fart joke to be a poor not very funny joke, but obnoxious? nah.

For me, if something's obnoxious it's hard to ignore. That joke? Actually forgotten about it until it was brought up. But again, that's just me.

Burn wrote:I'd consider the baby fart joke to be a poor not very funny joke, but obnoxious? nah.

For me, if something's obnoxious it's hard to ignore. That joke? Actually forgotten about it until it was brought up. But again, that's just me.

Well, I consider anything in poor taste to be obnoxious because it's something I have to put up with that I don't like, and yet I'm supposed to like it.

To each their own.