The Energon Pub

Okay so this is a bit of a ethical vs. legal question.

Two houses down the family who lived there went into foreclosure.They have been out of the house for about 4 weeks and it still is vacant. I now however have a dilemma. You see they left an American Flag flying on a pole that is coming off of the house. I hadn't realized it til today but the flag is ripped to shreds. So my first impulse was to go take it down. However... I have another neighbor who regularly calls the cops for any little thing on anyone who lives on our block.

In addition to this one asshole neighbor the family who lived there returns occasionally to pick up any mail or what not.

Due to my respect of the American Flag and what it stands for I really want to take it down so I can get it to a Sons of the American Legion to have it properly retired.

Would you take the flag down even if it meant facing possible petty larceny?

Isn't letting that kind of thing happen to a flag a crime?

I say take it down. The asshole neighbor probably is more of an annoyance to the cops. We all have someone like that. One where I used to live called the cops so much they threatened to arrest HER.

and if the cops do question you, pull out the Patriotism Card. Tell 'em you respect the flag too much to let it continue getting damaged, and you were only doing your Civic Duty as an American Citizen. Anyone who dares challenge that is a DANG COMMIE BASTARD!

If you know of any local boy scout troops in the area they will do a ceremony burn of the flag.

tech348 wrote:If you know of any local boy scout troops in the area they will do a ceremony burn of the flag.

And they'll probably get a badge or something like that in the process. See? You're doing a good thing for everyone!

Shadowman wrote:Isn't letting that kind of thing happen to a flag a crime?

for some reason that sounds correct.

Since the flag is already tattered and the family occassionally returns for mail, you could always take it down for "safe keeping" and leave a message for the owners asking them to contact you so that you may return it or dispose of it properly.

I agree! take it down and leave a note. give it a couple of weeks and if they don't respond, have it properly retired.

Shadowman wrote:Isn't letting that kind of thing happen to a flag a crime?

Yes and in the past people lost there lives if they let such a thing happen.
Also it was a prevelege to touch one, that not every dumbass had.

Why is it such a prob to your naibur?
It's your hous, ground and flag.

As a member of the armed forces, here's a few thoughts. Several things should never be done to the American flag: let it touch the ground, let it be flown under a foreign flag on American soil, and what you describe, be flown while in disrepair. If the house is empty, then by all means go and take it down. If you are worried about the neighbor, then ask a local VFW chapter, boy scouts, etc. to give you a hand. As to getting it repaired, that's probably not in your best interests. The same groups that can help you take it down also know the procedures for properly 'retiring' Old Glory.

Honestly, if I was you, I wouldn't think about it for another moment; it would already be down. You are however thinking of all the legal ramifications which is wise for you to do. I'm just glad to see folks back in the states still care for and respect the flag I currently am deployed for. Rodimus_Lantern: PM me your address. I've got an OIF/OEF combat sortie flag to send you... I know you'll take care of it.

Well I've taken it down today. Had to use a ladder and everything. The neighbor whom I was concerned about never popped their head out while I was taking the flag down.

I do know the proper way to retire a flag and I even took hand in repairing one. I'm a former scout and my family has fought in every American war since the Revolution sans the Gulf War and the current war.

I've left a note on the door of the house so if I don't hear anything within two weeks I'll be taking it down to the local Sons of the American Legion.

This isn't the first time in the last month that I've seen our flag mistreated. I've seen two American Flags in public that were lying on the ground. Once in a mall in a high visibility area, and another at the store where I work. Both times I've gotten passerbys to help me properly fold the flag.

It's disheartening to see how patriotism has all but fallen to the wayside.

quetzalcoatl: I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for the service you are doing for our country. I don't necessarily agree with the deployment but I hold every member of the the armed services in the highest regard. Thank You.

good don't burn it I just noticed that it's not yours.

Yes keep it a wile, it may be of sentimental value to the owners, they may have just forgotten all about it.

I think too much honour is afforded to the physical flag in your country. It's a piece of cloth. Respect what it stands for, respect its symbolism, but don't worry so much about some cloth on a stick.

Gutter Bunny wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Isn't letting that kind of thing happen to a flag a crime?

for some reason that sounds correct.

There is, but there is no federal punishment for it, hence why it isn't enforced.

I think too much honour is afforded to the physical flag in your country. It's a piece of cloth. Respect what it stands for, respect its symbolism, but don't worry so much about some cloth on a stick.

The way I see it, the flag is a symbol, and therefore, how you treat it is symbolic. In all truth, some group that burns a flag in protest bothers me less than someone who lets one fall apart from negligence. I guess it's b/c the people burning it obviously respect the symbolism - otherwise the act wouldn't mean anything. Someone like Rodimus's neighbor is just... apathetic.

Rodimus - good on you for taking it down. Now if only we could get the rednecks in this country to clean the mud off the American Flag stickers they sport so proudly on their tailgates.

We have somebody who lives a few streets over flying the flag upside down

It's a piece of cloth. It's not worth being arrested over. I'm constantly surprised at how some Americans can be so protective of their flags while letting the very things it stands for be perverted and cast away.