The Energon Pub

News Credits: 15 · by **PrymeStriker** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:55 am

Cyclonus43 wrote:Because they cause trouble by doing dumb ****.

That's Miko, not Jack & Raf, who are miles more mature. Plus, Jack was the real mastermind behind the Shadowzone plan - Miko was just the distraction an Raf was the button-pusher.

That you ASSUME he didn't know. There's too many things that can only be guessed at, like Starscream not mentioning that Skyquakes hand appeared out of nowhere, or when Arcee might have mentioned Soundwave's ability to create a bridge. These are only things that can be implied, not proven.

Well, if Soundwave knew about the Shadowzone, don't you think he wouldn't have tried to attack Miko, go through her, and look at his hand in confusion?

by **Cyclonus43** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:05 pm

PrymeStriker wrote:That's Miko, not Jack & Raf, who are miles more mature. Plus, Jack was the real mastermind behind the Shadowzone plan - Miko was just the distraction an Raf was the button-pusher.

Then that wasn't Jack in the early episodes drag racing and almost blowing Arcee's cover?

Along with doing ridiculous things that normal grown people couldn't do. Like moving Starscreams arm, when did Decepticons become made out of tinfoil?

Well, if Soundwave knew about the Shadowzone, don't you think he wouldn't have tried to attack Miko, go through her, and look at his hand in confusion?

Again, you're saying the same thing I'm saying just a different way, they made Soundwave an idiot to make the brats look strong/smart. I find it hard to believe that anyone with Soundwave's capability wouldn't have known the effects that certain aspects of the bridge created. By the way, where was the huge explosion when the bridges collapsed, and why weren't the kids sucked in the way Skyquake was? He was buried BEHIND where the Autobots were standing in respect to where the bridges opened up.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:11 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:Because they cause trouble by doing dumb ****.

That is not what a "brat" is.

Dictionary.com - "a child, especially an annoying, spoiled, or impolite child (usually used in contempt or irritation)."

Jack certainly doesn't fit that description since he not a child, and he's too mature, responsible, and well behaved to be considered "spoiled" or "impolite".

Miko, well, she's been annoying in the past, but in the case with her confronting Soundwave, she was being competent and following orders. She's also not a child either.

Raf's a goody-two-shoes, so, like Jack, he certainly can't be called a "brat".

And, of the three of them, only Miko has ever been directly responsible for causing trouble. But in this case, her Gung Ho nature was being used beneficially.

Cyclonus43 wrote:But at least it might have been a little more acceptable/believable if someone worthy did it.

Jack was a Prime, of all things, chosen by Optimus to be his successor. He destroyed Airachnid's ship and singleheandedly directed a swarm of Scraplets to devour an overpowered Insecticon.

Miko proved herself as a worthy operator of the Apex Armor when she mopped the floor with Starscream, and has been credited as the one who slayed Hardshell. She's even earned "Mr. By-the-book-stiff" Ultra Magnus's respect, of all people.

Raf's a technical genius who's proven to be more than a vital component in the Autobots' more technial-based objectives.

I think it's without a doubt that they've proven themselves worthy countless times a long time ago.

Cyclonus43 wrote:That you ASSUME he didn't know. There's too many things that can only be guessed at, like Starscream not mentioning that Skyquakes hand appeared out of nowhere, or when Arcee might have mentioned Soundwave's ability to create a bridge. These are only things that can be implied, not proven.

Okay then, what reasons do we have to assume that he did know what to do?

At least, it can be said that he didn't see a second portal coming, and was caught off guard in that regard.

Cyclonus43 wrote:I think that's overrating it a bit. Soundwave doesn't have a problem with solitude. Nor will he have a problem finding a way out.

I did mention "until he gets out", yes. But, until then, even though he can deal with solitude, he'll still have to live with the knowledge that he failed his objective and wasn't there to stop his master from dying or to stop his enemies from winning back Cybertron.

Also, Soundwave's original loyalties lay with Cybertron before he devoted himself to Megatron. If he sees that his master is dead and his loyalties return to the planet, he might notice that his loyalties were misguided all along and see himself a fool for letting Megatron lead him astray down a path that ultimately ruined his own life, in the end. Even if he gets out, he have to live with knowing that the path he chose led him to a doomed existence, in which he will forever be seen as a villain and a war criminal in an Autobot-ruled Cybertron. Even if he escapes, if Megatron doesn't come back to power and restores Soundwave's nigh-untouchable position of power, things look pretty bleak for the guy's future ahead.

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:16 pm

Some people are just too dumb to watch children's cartoons.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:28 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:Then that wasn't Jack in the early episodes drag racing and almost blowing Arcee's cover?

Nope. Vince made a crack at Arcee, and Arcee wanted to humiliate him in return.

Jack only really drag raced with Bumblebee, but he was still halfhearted about it since he was really only doing it due to peer pressure (Vince threatening him, Miko encouraging him, Sierra flirting with him). He's a teenager, he's prone to give into peer pressure. We all are/were/will be.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Along with doing ridiculous things that normal grown people couldn't do. Like moving Starscreams arm, when did Decepticons become made out of tinfoil?

Three humans can push big objects. It's not like Screamer's arm was bolted to the ground.

His arm was about has big a large fallen tree trunk, and humans can move those in real life. Not with ease, mind you, but it's not impossible to moved with enough force.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Again, you're saying the same thing I'm saying just a different way, they made Soundwave an idiot to make the brats look strong/smart. I find it hard to believe that anyone with Soundwave's capability wouldn't have known the effects that certain aspects of the bridge created.

What could have have done while paralyzed at the time?

Cyclonus43 wrote:By the way, where was the huge explosion when the bridges collapsed, and why weren't the kids sucked in the way Skyquake was? He was buried BEHIND where the Autobots were standing in respect to where the bridges opened up.

Could have had to do with the size of these bridges this time, since the ones from the other episode were huge, while these were personal-sized.

But, if not, then just call it a continuity error.

by **Cyclonus43** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:30 pm

Sabrblade wrote:Jack certainly doesn't fit that description since he not a child, and he's too mature, responsible, and well behaved to be considered "spoiled" or "impolite".

I appreciate the definition. But I use the term "brat" like I used the term "dickhead" to describe the other poster, it was a generality, not like I actually think the guy is shaped like a penis head. i used it as a term to refer to annoying children.

Miko, well, she's been annoying in the past, but in the case with her confronting Soundwave, she was being competent and following orders. She's also not a child either.

Yes, shes' a child. Unless she suddenly turned 18.

Raf's a goody-two-shoes, so, like Jack, he certainly can't be called a "brat".

Raf I will give you, he's not a brat.

Now please answer my question where the 3 of them have enough strength to move Starscream's arm. With him weighing in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs, his arm isn't exactly "light".

And, of the three of them, only Miko has ever been directly responsible for causing trouble. But in this case, her Gung Ho nature was being used beneficially.

See my other post about Jack in the early episodes.

Miko proved herself as a worthy operator of the Apex Armor when she mopped the floor with Starscream, and has been credited as the one who slayed Hardshell. She's even earned "Mr. By-the-book-stiff" Ultra Magnus's respect, of all people.

Exactly, something Starscream wasn't able to do, forgive me if I can't suspend THAT much reality.

Raf's a technical genius who's proven to be more than a vital component in the Autobots' more technial-based objectives.

Yes, I give him his well earned nerd status.

At least, it can be said that he didn't see a second portal coming, and was caught off guard in that regard.

Possible, but I find it unlikely that Soundwave would be that unprepared.

Also, Soundwave's original loyalties lay with Cybertron before he devoted himself to Megatron. If he sees that his master is dead and his loyalties return to the planet, he might notice that his loyalties were misguided all along and see himself a fool for letting Megatron lead him astray down a path that ultimately ruined his own life, in the end. Even if he gets out, he have to live with knowing that the path he chose led him to a doomed existence, in which he will forever be seen as a villain and a war criminal in an Autobot-ruled Cybertron. Even if he escapes, if Megatron doesn't come back to power and restores Soundwave's nigh-untouchable position of power, things look pretty bleak for the guy's future ahead.

Forgive me if I don't think Soundwave thinks that much about being a villain. He's ALWAYS known his place and what he was doing/who he was working for.

He's survived without Megatron before, though for a short time, and I have no doubt Shockwave or even Starscream would underestimate his value.

by **Cyclonus43** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:38 pm

Sabrblade wrote:Jack only really drag raced with Bumblebee, but he was still halfhearted about it since he was really only doing it due to peer pressure (Vince threatening him, Miko encouraging him, Sierra flirting with him). He's a teenager, he's prone to give into peer pressure. We all are/were/will be.

Halfhearted? Nice to be able to clarify that for him.

His arm was about has big a large fallen tree trunk, and humans can move those in real life. Not with ease, mind you, but it's not impossible to moved with enough force.

Excuse me brawny, but I've never met a tree trunk that weight 1,000 lbs and could STILL be MOVED by 3 CHILDREN.

What could have have done while paralyzed at the time?

He could have moved before it got him. I know, it's not likely to everyone else on this board apparently, but if the Autobots and brats can do ridiculous unexplained ****, then why can't the bad guys?

Could have had to do with the size of these bridges this time, since the ones from the other episode were huge, while these were personal-sized.

But, if not, then just call it a continuity error.

Sorry not every POS you throw at the wall is going to stick

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:Yes, shes' a child. Unless she suddenly turned 18.

Most see "child" as meaning "older than babies, younger than teenagers", which only Raf would be. That's how I was using it.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Now please answer my question where the 3 of them have enough strength to move Starscream's arm. With him weighing in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs, his arm isn't exactly "light".

I made a post as you were typing your response. It's on the previous page.

Though, as for Starscream's weight, how would we know how much he weighs? It's not like he's so heavy he makes craters or potholes with every footstep he takes wherever he goes. Not even Megatron, or even Bulkhead, do that. If anything, Screamer'd probably be one of the more lighter, nimble Decepticons than a heavyweight.

Cyclonus43 wrote:See my other post about Jack in the early episodes.

In my previous post.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Exactly, something Starscream wasn't able to do, forgive me if I can't suspend THAT much reality.

What did he not do? :???:

Cyclonus43 wrote:Possible, but I find it unlikely that Soundwave would be that unprepared.

Again, he was facing against something the Decepticons considered no real threat at all. His overconfidence left him vulnerable.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Forgive me if I don't think Soundwave thinks that much about being a villain. He's ALWAYS known his place and what he was doing/who he was working for.

He's survived without Megatron before, though for a short time, and I have no doubt Shockwave or even Starscream would underestimate his value.

Oh, I didn't mean on a moralistic level. But simply that, with Cybertron now in control by the Autobots and Soundwave having lost everything due to both that and the death of Megatron, he ain't gonna be too happy about having no more place in the world, and has only himself to blame for the choices he made in life.

News Credits: 251 · by **Mindmaster** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:43 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:Excuse me brawny, but I've never met a tree trunk that weight 1,000 lbs and could STILL be MOVED by 3 CHILDREN.

It depends on the tree, really. Starscream's arm, compared to them, was like ten or eleven feet-ish. A full-fledged tree would be much taller. I've pushed downed trees that long before, and I'm only 17, Jack's approximate age. They're pushable, but like my friend Sabrblade says, but not easy to do so.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:46 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:Excuse me brawny, but I've never met a tree trunk that weight 1,000 lbs and could STILL be MOVED by 3 CHILDREN.

What's the source on this being the arm's actual weight?

Cyclonus43 wrote:He could have moved before it got him. I know, it's not likely to everyone else on this board apparently, but if the Autobots and brats can do ridiculous unexplained ****, then why can't the bad guys?

Two seconds isn't quite enough time for someone as relaxed as Soundwave was to react fast enough to escape the vacuum of two enclosing portals.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Sorry not every POS you throw at the wall is going to stick

Continuity error is what continuity does.

I'm still baffled as to how Strscream and Megatron even knew about the Shadowzone in episode 49. :BANG_HEAD:

by **MINDVVIPE** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:49 pm

I see mini predictions creeping into this back and forth :grin:

I dont think the Autobots will rule Cybertron. After the Predacons rising movie, we will be able to predict more clearly, but I see a sort of beast machines cybertron with it being pretty vacant, and with a crafty Shockwave building drones to attack the Autobots wherever they are.

Also, why does everyone seem to think the Apex Armour would not have been too much for Soundwave? Okay, sure, the show is inconsistent at times, but that armour would have wrecked most anyone. I would like to see it pit against Predaking since even he couldn't really damage the armour.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:04 pm

MINDVVIPE wrote:I dont think the Autobots will rule Cybertron. After the Predacons rising movie, we will be able to predict more clearly, but I see a sort of beast machines cybertron with it being pretty vacant, and with a crafty Shockwave building drones to attack the Autobots wherever they are.

Oh, well, I meant "as of right now" they rule it. Yeah, things might shake up once the movie kick in, but the episode ended with Cybertron being in the Autobots' hands.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Also, why does everyone seem to think the Apex Armour would not have been too much for Soundwave? Okay, sure, the show is inconsistent at times, but that armour would have wrecked most anyone. I would like to see it pit against Predaking since even he couldn't really damage the armour.

Oh yeah, that is a good point. Then again, Soundwave might have known he was no match for the armor and simply deployed his portal to shield himself from it, as well as to force Miko away from the bridge by sending her through it.

News Credits: 25 · by **VirusCarnage** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:53 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:
viruscarnage wrote:Why do you insist on calling them brats? The only 'brat' is Miko in reality. Jack is almost of age to be an agent, and Raf has the intelligence of a 30 year old working at the CIA.

I assume you're reading other peoples posts in this thread, and noticed the reason to not ask your question, right?

I just skimmed through them, I respond to whatever ones I agree with and the ones that are the most illogical.

by **Cyclonus43** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:55 am

Sabrblade wrote:Most see "child" as meaning "older than babies, younger than teenagers", which only Raf would be. That's how I was using it.

Quite a few children still "qualify" as children, if not by just age alone.

I made a post as you were typing your response. It's on the previous page.

Though, as for Starscream's weight, how would we know how much he weighs?

I saw the one about the tree stump, but not anything mentioning 3 very small and frail brats....erm....children....being able to move something that heavy. Going by what an f-16 weighs, and what some places say Starscream weighs, he's in the neighborhood of 20,000 pounds.

Though, as for Starscream's weight, how would we know how much he weighs? It's not like he's so heavy he makes craters or potholes with every footstep he takes wherever he goes. Not even Megatron, or even Bulkhead, do that. If anything, Screamer'd probably be one of the more lighter, nimble Decepticons than a heavyweight.

Probably just a continuity error

In my previous post.

Still doesn't make him less guilty.

What did he not do?

Handle the armor as well as Miko.

Again, he was facing against something the Decepticons considered no real threat at all. His overconfidence left him vulnerable.

Again, I still see Soundwave as one that is always thinking, weather confident or conceded, he still always thinking.

Oh, I didn't mean on a moralistic level. But simply that, with Cybertron now in control by the Autobots and Soundwave having lost everything due to both that and the death of Megatron, he ain't gonna be too happy about having no more place in the world, and has only himself to blame for the choices he made in life.

I think he's evolved enough to know the only logical solution is to continue on. He has never struck me as the remorseful type, no matter what the circumstances.

by **Cyclonus43** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:41 pm

Sabrblade wrote:What's the source on this being the arm's actual weight?

Going by the weight of an f-16, and what some sites list Starscream as weighing.

Two seconds isn't quite enough time for someone as relaxed as Soundwave was to react fast enough to escape the vacuum of two enclosing portals.

I never feel Soundwave is "relaxed".

Continuity error is what continuity does.

I suppose.

I'm still baffled as to how Strscream and Megatron even knew about the Shadowzone in episode 49.

Sure it's not #50? So why wouldn't Soundwave have known? He "sees and hears" everything on that ship.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:41 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:I saw the one about the tree stump, but not anything mentioning 3 very small and frail brats....erm....children....being able to move something that heavy. Going by what an f-16 weighs, and what some places say Starscream weighs, he's in the neighborhood of 20,000 pounds.

What places give his weight?

Also, "frail"? Really? :roll:

Cyclonus43 wrote:Probably just a continuity error

My example did refer to continuity, the TFs not stomping holes into the ground everytime they walk doesn't.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Still doesn't make him less guilty.

Arcee started it. And Jack, unlike Miko, learns from his mistakes, showing that he grows and matures as a character, making it easier for him to be forgiven.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Handle the armor as well as Miko.

Who said he didn't?

Cyclonus43 wrote:Again, I still see Soundwave as one that is always thinking, weather confident or conceded, he still always thinking.

There's the problem. It's how "you" personally view Soundwave, rather than the canonical view of him. At the time, he was thinking , yes, but about dealing with Miko, as that's what his focus was directed upon at the time. A second portal appearing behind him all of a sudden wasn't something he was expecting to happen.

Past episodes have also shown that Soundwave is just as prone to being surprised as anyone. Was he expecting the kids to be in the same facility as him in episode 5? Was he expecting Makeshift to have a bomb planted on him by Wheeljack that would blow up and force him to flee in episode 8? Was he expecting Arcee to shoot the unconscious Megatron in the chest in episode 13? Was he expecting Bulkhead to crash the Nemesis in episode 36? Was he expecting the ship to gain its own mind and electrocute him? Was he expecting Wheeljack to shatter his visor and Ratchet to sabotage Laserbeak in episode 37? Was he expecting Raf to knock the Damocles satellite he was controlling out of orbit in episode 45? Was he expecting Optimus to successful get the Star Saber despite Soundwave's attempts to distract him with a fake relic in episode 46? Was he expecting Smokescreen to the one who possessed the final Omega Key in episode 48? Was he expecting Laserbeak to get damaged in battle and thus return with hardly any salvageable surveillance data in episode 53? Was he expecting Shockwave to bring forth a Predacon through the space bridge at the end of episode 54? Was he expecting the Autobots to attack Darkmount so quickly with such limited numbers, Optimus to come to the rescue out of nowhere in a new body, and the humans to ultimately destroy the fortress in episode 56? Was he expecting the Predacon to wreck the Nemesis communications dish (that he was forced to repair) in episode 58? Was he expecting Starscream and Knock Out to unleash a vampiric Terrorcon epidemic aboard the Nemesis in episode 60? Was he expecting Predaking to evolve into an intelligent being that would cause Megatron much worry in episode 61? Was he expecting to get shot down by Optimus, electrocuted, knock out, captured, and interrogated by the Autobots in episode 62? Was he expecting the already intelligently-adept Shockwave to need Ratchet's help to finish the Synthetic Energon formula in episode 63? Was he expecting Laserbeak's signal to be heading towards the Nemesis despite the real Laserbeak being already attached to his own torso in episode 64?

If yes to all, then that's some serious godmodding going on.

Cyclonus43 wrote:I think he's evolved enough to know the only logical solution is to continue on. He has never struck me as the remorseful type, no matter what the circumstances.

Then again, the show didn't quite go into much depth on his inner personality, anyway. Most of the info I got of his inner thoughts on his loyalties and ideals came from the novels.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:52 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:I never feel Soundwave is "relaxed".

Someone whose alert wouldn't turn as slowly and calmly as he did.

Cyclonus43 wrote:Sure it's not #50?

Whoops. Yeah, 50. :oops:

Cyclonus43 wrote:So why wouldn't Soundwave have known? He "sees and hears" everything on that ship.

Except the Shadowzone entrance wasn't on the ship. It was over in that canyon where Skyquake's grave lay.

by **Switchfire** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:39 pm

I didn't read all of the discussion in this thread but I'll voice my opinions.

When I watched the first episode of Prime a few years ago I really liked it. I liked that Starscream actually killed an Autobot. It seemed to show the Decepticons were here, and they were actually capable.

Fast forward to now and such is not the case at all. I understand the bad guys lose and the good guys win, but I never, ever thought the good guys were going to lose ANYONE at all. The closer a(n Autobot) character came to death, the more likely he was to be saved by a ridiculous distraction. I personally can only tolerate that for so long before it gets tiresome. I would have to agree with most of what Cyclonus43 has said.

The Vehicons who, according to Starscream are highly trained and capable, can't seem to fire their own arm at anything other than the ground. Much like the Uruk hai in Lord of the Rings having one guy kill 50 elite warriors with complete ease ruins the threat the bad guys present.

I understand this show was made to sell toys to kids, and it does that. The good guys have to win I know. I just wish they'd fire their blasters a little less and hit a little more.

News Credits: 456 · by **Sabrblade** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:48 pm

Switchfire wrote:When I watched the first episode of Prime a few years ago I really liked it. I liked that Starscream actually killed an Autobot. It seemed to show the Decepticons were here, and they were actually capable.

Fast forward to now and such is not the case at all. I understand the bad guys lose and the good guys win, but I never, ever thought the good guys were going to lose ANYONE at all. The closer a(n Autobot) character came to death, the more likely he was to be saved by a ridiculous distraction. I personally can only tolerate that for so long before it gets tiresome.

Just goes to show how much the creators tricked, deceived, and misled so many viewers with Cliffjumper's murder.

by **Switchfire** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:09 pm

Just goes to show how much the creators tricked, deceived, and misled so many viewers with Cliffjumper's murder.

Tell me about it. After seeing Starscreams broken reaction I felt more sorry for them than I ever did for the Autobots. I just wanted nothing more than to see Starscream kill one of them.

Also, in regards to the whole Soundwave space bridge thing...why didn't Soundwave just deactivate his, walk through the other one and bridge back onto the Nemesis again? I've never actually seen the Shadowzone episode but Soundwave is as close to a living computer as any Transformer, so he should have been able to calculate that outcome pretty quickly. It's the first thing I thought of when watching it.

by **MINDVVIPE** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:18 pm

Switchfire wrote:
Just goes to show how much the creators tricked, deceived, and misled so many viewers with Cliffjumper's murder.

Tell me about it. After seeing Starscreams broken reaction I felt more sorry for them than I ever did for the Autobots. I just wanted nothing more than to see Starscream kill one of them.

Also, in regards to the whole Soundwave space bridge thing...why didn't Soundwave just deactivate his, walk through the other one and bridge back onto the Nemesis again? I've never actually seen the Shadowzone episode but Soundwave is as close to a living computer as any Transformer, so he should have been able to calculate that outcome pretty quickly. It's the first thing I thought of when watching it.

I agree that, if anyone could have thought up an escape plan to what was coming, he would. But maybe with the Apex Armour in front of him, he was less inclined to remove his only defense against certain death. But yes, I agree with you about the other stuff. Almost as bad as watching ewoks kill stormtroopers, haha... K, maybe thats worse.

by **Cyclonus43** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:37 pm

Sabrblade wrote:What places give his weight?

Also, "frail"? Really?

It's on the interwebs.

According to the Armada video game's instruction booklet, Starscream (in his Armada-era body) has the following statistics:

Height: 19' 7" (15' 1" vehicle mode length)
Weight: 22,050 lbs
Thrust: 28,000 lbs
Vehicle Top Speed: Mach 2.7

I figured it wouldn't be far off, and would also dispose you're theory of them not making pot holes when they walked.

Yes, "frail", Raf is what 3'2? Miko looks like an anorexic, and Jack is a cross between Ambercrombie and Twilight.

My example did refer to continuity, the TFs not stomping holes into the ground everytime they walk doesn't.

So maybe the writes decided not to write it in like they have for the past 30 years. I still doubt these robots are light enough to have children moving their parts around....maybe an eyeball or something.

Arcee started it. And Jack, unlike Miko, learns from his mistakes, showing that he grows and matures as a character, making it easier for him to be forgiven.

And his racing with Bumblebee? Though I give you the point that he does learn over time. My problem is more with what they've been able to do, rather than who they are altogether. Raf I can understand as a computer nerd, but some of the others are a little far fetched.

Who said he didn't?

He lost it didn't he?

There's the problem. It's how "you" personally view Soundwave, rather than the canonical view of him. At the time, he was thinking , yes, but about dealing with Miko, as that's what his focus was directed upon at the time. A second portal appearing behind him all of a sudden wasn't something he was expecting to happen.

Exactly why I feel the writers made him look dumb, in the end, they made ALL the Decepticons look weak, frail and cowardly. Who can ever think a group like that is EVER a threat????

Past episodes have also shown that Soundwave is just as prone to being surprised as anyone. Was he expecting the kids to be in the same facility as him in episode 5? Was he expecting Makeshift to have a bomb planted on him by Wheeljack that would blow up and force him to flee in episode 8? Was he expecting Arcee to shoot the unconscious Megatron in the chest in episode 13? Was he expecting Bulkhead to crash the Nemesis in episode 36? Was he expecting the ship to gain its own mind and electrocute him? Was he expecting Wheeljack to shatter his visor and Ratchet to sabotage Laserbeak in episode 37? Was he expecting Raf to knock the Damocles satellite he was controlling out of orbit in episode 45? Was he expecting Optimus to successful get the Star Saber despite Soundwave's attempts to distract him with a fake relic in episode 46? Was he expecting Smokescreen to the one who possessed the final Omega Key in episode 48? Was he expecting Laserbeak to get damaged in battle and thus return with hardly any salvageable surveillance data in episode 53? Was he expecting Shockwave to bring forth a Predacon through the space bridge at the end of episode 54? Was he expecting the Autobots to attack Darkmount so quickly with such limited numbers, Optimus to come to the rescue out of nowhere in a new body, and the humans to ultimately destroy the fortress in episode 56? Was he expecting the Predacon to wreck the Nemesis communications dish (that he was forced to repair) in episode 58? Was he expecting Starscream and Knock Out to unleash a vampiric Terrorcon epidemic aboard the Nemesis in episode 60? Was he expecting Predaking to evolve into an intelligent being that would cause Megatron much worry in episode 61? Was he expecting to get shot down by Optimus, electrocuted, knock out, captured, and interrogated by the Autobots in episode 62? Was he expecting the already intelligently-adept Shockwave to need Ratchet's help to finish the Synthetic Energon formula in episode 63? Was he expecting Laserbeak's signal to be heading towards the Nemesis despite the real Laserbeak being already attached to his own torso in episode 64?

If yes to all, then that's some serious godmodding going on.

Now you're just showing off, or that you're using your brain the wrong way

Then again, the show didn't quite go into much depth on his inner personality, anyway. Most of the info I got of his inner thoughts on his loyalties and ideals came from the novels.

So you're just assuming it'd be the same?

by **Cyclonus43** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:45 pm

Sabrblade wrote:Someone whose alert wouldn't turn as slowly and calmly as he did.

I wouldn't mistake "calm" for "calculating".

Whoops. Yeah, 50.

Yay, something I didn't have to get yelled at for having a different opinion!

Except the Shadowzone entrance wasn't on the ship. It was over in that canyon where Skyquake's grave lay.

Except they mentioned it ON the ship.

One last bit of logic, on why the writers made him look bad. Why didn't Soundwave just open the bridge UNDER Miko, like he had just done previously?

News Credits: 251 · by **Mindmaster** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:48 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:What places give his weight?

Also, "frail"? Really?

It's on the interwebs.

According to the Armada video game's instruction booklet, Starscream (in his Armada-era body) has the following statistics:

Height: 19' 7" (15' 1" vehicle mode length)
Weight: 22,050 lbs
Thrust: 28,000 lbs
Vehicle Top Speed: Mach 2.7

Okay, let me stop you right there. That is a completely different version of Starscream. Just because the Armada game booklet gives readings on a Starscream, that doesn't mean that any and all Starscreams share the same statistics.

by **MINDVVIPE** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:06 pm

Cyclonus43 wrote:One last bit of logic, on why the writers made him look bad. Why didn't Soundwave just open the bridge UNDER Miko, like he had just done previously?

OOHH SNAP. Alright, hole in the scene right there :lol:

As for his weight, he's still gota weight as much, or probably a lot more than an F-16 jet. Arm would probably be as heavy as a mini cooper, but without the wheels to help it move. So over 2,000 lbs. I'm sure it was too heavy for kids to move. But yeah, lots of errors... no point going over them all unless you're that bored.