The Energon Pub

What are your opinions on the H1N1 vaccine? Are you getting vaccinated?

For a glorified (and, statistically speaking, less dangerous) flu strain, the hubbub and fearmongering are definitely overblown, but it's a flu strain nonetheless and measures should be taken. Should you get it? Should you not? I've heard that this vaccine has side-effects and causes more problems than it solves, but then again, that's only one side of the story. The medical area is probably one of the more villified areas, so I'm not sure who should be trusted on this.

For me, I'm on the fence. As I said, I've heard bad things about the vaccine, but I don't really know how credible any one source is. I figure there are enough people on both sides of this story at this site to have an intelligent conversation about this.

I don't know if I'm getting it there have been no cases of it in my area so I don't think I will get it.

Just to say something on the vaccine, there are two versions of it, one that has pretty dubious ingredients that may cause pretty bad side effects and one that is free from those ingredients and shouldn't cause any side effects.
Now guess which version the general public will be getting and which the politicians and military over here.

I will be getting one if I can get the nasal dosage instead of the injection.

I get really bad blood pressure drops from injections and it wrecks me for a day or two.

I'm not getting the vaccination, nor do I get a normal flu vaccination. I can't, I have Guillain-Barré Syndrome and a vaccination could cause a relapse... So, I just keep my hands washed, try to avoid people when I know they are sick, and do my best to stay healthy...

I went to the doctor yesterday for other matters and he insisted I get it.

I tried to argue that it just seemed to be a bit hyped up and he pulled the epidemic card, so I ended up getting it. It was free anyway.

Hellz. No. That's what the H and N in H1N1 stand for to me. Couple of reasons:

1) I've already had the swine flu about a month ago. Stupid sick officemate. I was...unimpressed. Clearly I've lived to tell the tale. What's the stupid shot going to do for me? Waste my money.

2) I don't get flu vaccines: they're guesses at best at what strain will be the 'popular' one. I don't support that kind of gambling.

3) despite what they tell you, I've always gotten the flu shortly after getting a flu vaccine. Dead virus? really?

4) when I was in the Army, we got vaccines for stuff I don't even know what the hell they were for. Bubonic plague kinda made sense. But we'd get shots 3-4 times a year with those pneumatic injectors and no one told us what they were for. Just...stand in line and roll up your sleeve. Now, I'm paranoid to begin with. Strangely, in that period of my life I also developed migraines and nerve damage in my hands...connection?

5) I don't like people telling me what to do with interior portions of my body, thankyouverymuch. Right now it's *mandatory* in my state for health care workers to get the vaccine. There's talk that everyone in my field (education) get it too, because we come into contact with so many other people. Well, where does THAT end? So, like only people who work in cubicles are free to choose NOT to get the vaccine? Yeah, I'm paranoid (see number 4 above). But it's not against the law to be paranoid.


HK, you're better off getting the flu now before it mutates anyway.

I don't know.
I do know that every year that i have received the regular flu shot not long after I catch the flu..

Earlier this year (Around mid Feb) I had some kind of viral infection and it was so bad that I was completely bedridden for 3 days. I could not move a muscle as it had my entire body tensed up and just the slightest movement was extremely painful.

Funny thing is my doctor said that because I now have a higher muscle ratio than fat, the virus hit me harder.. He explaine that if I were fatter it would have been milder.
I exercise and work out to be healthy and when I get sick it is worse.
Uh...?
Go figure..

screw vaccines. more problems than they solve

hellkitty wrote:3) despite what they tell you, I've always gotten the flu shortly after getting a flu vaccine. Dead virus? really?

Cyber Bishop wrote:I don't know.
I do know that every year that i have received the regular flu shot not long after I catch the flu..

See, i've had the complete opposite. I started getting them a few years ago (I think the first time was after the cyclone hit and they were giving them for free) and I never got sick. I skipped one year and boom, got sick.

I think it just comes down to that it works for some and not for others. The Australian Government treat it as "better some people be immune and not get sick than an epidemic breaking out an 80% of the country being laid up" ... yes, this was their belief perpetuated by scare mongering news outlets.

Seriously. What a load of arse and what a great big waste of money and resources.

Next year it'll be dog flu or cat flu. And as it stands, NORMAL flu has and will kill more people then this silly swine flu. Its jsut fear mongering. Sometimes the human body is the best defence. Those bastards who made all the Tamiflu, they've made a mint.

Its all about money with the pharamaco industry, and when something like swine flu comes along they sh1t their pants with joy knowing every paranoid and hypercondriac will be breaking out their wallets to purchase meds. Tamiflu, our "best" defence against swine flu (apparently), well, now there are strands of swine flu that are immune to Tami.

And for crap's sake, I had swine flu, all it is a nasty case of the normal flu that comes on faster and lasts a bit longer. You only really have to worry if you have co-morbidities like Asthma or if you smoke like a chimney, and even then normal flu is a bigger risk to you.

Its like the whole "This spray is hospital grade and kills 99.99% of bacteria! use it or your family will die of the plague!!"

In closing: regarding swine flu, wake me up when they want my back yard for a mass grave site.

hellkitty wrote:3) despite what they tell you, I've always gotten the flu shortly after getting a flu vaccine. Dead virus? really?

This is a myth.

The "flu" can take up to 10-14 days from exposure to develop, so chances are, you had another flu or cold virus.

Which is the problem with vaccines, they only protect you against a couple of the flu strands, and they are the flu strands that existed the year previous, so if something new comes along, it may offer you a half arsed approach of protection, or none at all.

Plus, don't get it if you have an egg allergy.

Seriously, people, washing your hands and not coughing or going to work when you're sick is the best way to stop the spread of colds and flus.

I had H1N1 last month when there was a spate of infections in my area and it really isn't a big deal. Didn't even bother with seeing a doctor, just took the week off work (where I'd likely picked it up from a coworker anyway) got plenty of fluids and kept myself under with a cocktail of painkillers, sleeping pills and smokes for 3 days. No cold cures, no antivirals, if you don't overexert yourself and keep yourself hydrated your body will see the virus off in no time.

I'd only recommend vaccination to people who have underlying health problems that are likely to cause complications when suffering from a viral infection. But that's my stance on regular seasonal flu vaccinations as well, my grandmother gets a shot since getting flu may well kill her, I don't because the worst it will do to me is knock me off my feet for a couple of days.

Name_Violation wrote:screw vaccines. more problems than they solve

This is perhaps the worst thing you have ever said.

Ignorance on the importance of vaccines is staggering. Medical issues which only 50 years ago would have decimated populations or caused significant human misery are now avoided with 3-5 minutes of medical attention.

POLIO

SMALLPOX

RABIES

ANTHRAX

All of those things were blights upon people everywhere and now they're something that you never even have to consider worrying about.

We pay doctors and researchers to do their work. We place a certain degree of trust in their ability to make a professional AND moral (it's part of their oath) decision on our health. I'm not advocating for blind faith in the process, but I am advocating for a more measured approach than, "I heard some crap about someone, somewhere and to me, that weighs more favorably than 100 years of medical research and a professional who has spent the majority of his life training in his trade."

A friend of mine read a book (forget what it's called) that "opened his eyes," as he said, to medication. To him, all doctors are now drug pushers, which is a strong opinion after reading one source. He swears off all medication--even Aspirin--since he claims they all contain high amounts of mercury and whatever else the book told him. He insisted I read this book, but it won't change my opinion. My thinking is that one single book can't unravel hundreds of years and billions of dollars of research. For this reason, I don't consider him and that book credible sources. (Tell an asthma sufferer to stay far away from medication? Not likely.)

I don't really know what source to trust. They're all sensationalistic. I don't find any source to be completely trustworthy. What Poohy said just take the everyday precautions, which makes perfect sense. However, that doesn't apply to my daughter. She's two and doesn't understand enough to protect herself; she'll suck her fingers moments after wiping her nose. Compounded by parents who send their kids to daycare sick or well, that worries me. All I can suggest is that the daycare worker refuses kids that are sick. Thankfully my daughter goes to a home daycare where the number of kids is low (five). But she'll be in school in two or three years, and if H1N1 is here to stay, combined with the regular bugs, I'd better get very informed very quickly.

If it were just my wife and me, I'd just take the regular precautions. But with my daughter, who is part of those "higher risk" groups based on her young age, I have to consider the shots.

I will get it only if i'm ordered by my CO to get it.

Why should I? I'm 26 years old and healthy with a great immune system. Bring it on H1N1! My wife is thinking of getting it for my son, which I'm down for since he's only 3.

HK, I'm lucky enough to be in the military AFTER they realized that giving things with the same needle over and over again isn't the greatest idea.

The flu can take 10-14 days to develop, but you have to realize that your body is having a foreign object injected into it's circulation so it's going to take the appropriate actions. Also, the flu vaccine is an INACTIVATED virus, not a dead virus. Inactivated simply means it's dormant and is not able to CAUSE the disease. Your body will fight it just like it does with any other infection, fever to kill it off by cooking it, vomitting to rid it of your digestive track, so everything you experianced is perfectly normal. The flu mist is a live virus and will cause the same symptoms but will come on a lot quicker but neither should last longer.

Have you guys ever played the game Pandemic II? You get to create a virus/bacteria/parasite and try to exterminate the human race? I did it and named my virus H1N1, and down they went! Muahahahaha

Counterpunch wrote:Ignorance on the importance of vaccines is staggering. Medical issues which only 50 years ago would have decimated populations or caused significant human misery are now avoided with 3-5 minutes of medical attention.

Fun fact of the day: vaccinations have saved more people then anti-botics and fresh water systems combined!

What pisses me off, like REALLY pisses me off is this sh1t that a few celebs have started spreading about vaccinations causing Autism and a few other terrible ills and so the general public don't get their kids vaccinated.

I have a friend who's parents were hippies and refused her the MMR vaccine, well, she ended up getting pregnant and lost the baby due to contracting what she would have been protected from had she been vaccinated. The baby died a HORRIBLE death, and my friend came close to loosing her own life. Her parents were all keen on grandchildren, and well, they won't be getting any from their only child because they thought vaccinations were unnatural and dangerous.

The flu vaccinations, the H1N1 vax, ignore that, I'll belly ache on that, but its the childhood vaccinations that need to be given, unless there is strong compelling proof that the child has a medical history that contraindicates the vaccine.

Its not the parents who are denying the vax to their kid who will suffer. It pisses me off to no ends.

Get your kids vaccinated! Community immunity!!

Me, Grimlock! wrote:She's two and doesn't understand enough to protect herself; she'll suck her fingers moments after wiping her nose.

That's no problem. Those are her bugs. We all have our own little colony of bugs living inside us, and up us and on us et cetera and they're pretty harmless to us because our body's environment is geared up to be hospitable to them.

We're doing the species no favour by not letting kids be kids. Sure, kids died in droves 100 years ago, but its 2009, take into account good medical science, fresh water and anti-botics, what would have snuffed a kid 100 years ago won't even cause them a sniffle now. But children need to be allowed to develop their own immune system.

Its like this peanut and soy allergy thing. There's a lot of it in Western children and parents are told "don't give your babies soy or peanuts to stop them developing allergy" but I have friends from Africa and they've said that babies over there drink a lot of peanut and soy derived milk and foods because they don't have a lot of dairy, and yet there's pretty much zero percent soy and nut allergy.

Generally, people don't give their immune systems a lot of credit.

Compounded by parents who send their kids to daycare sick or well, that worries me. All I can suggest is that the daycare worker refuses kids that are sick.

You should be more worried about kids who are coming to daycare who aren't vaccinated, because those little tykes could be brewing up a super strand of the disease all the other kids are vaccinated against. But people over react to normal cold and flu, kids need to catch these things and as long as they have good parents who don't tie them out in the yard with a sack to sleep in, they'll be fine.

The Noro/Roto/GI viruses are the ones you gotta watch for, not because the virus itself will kill you or the kid, the dehydration can cause issues - but dehyrdation can be dealt with.

Thankfully my daughter goes to a home daycare where the number of kids is low (five). But she'll be in school in two or three years, and if H1N1 is here to stay, combined with the regular bugs, I'd better get very informed very quickly.

Teach your kid good hand hygiene. Wash before meals, after the toilet, use her own chapstick/hankies/whatever and teach her to nag other kids to put their hands over their mouths when they cough. Honestly, that's all anyone really needs to do. We all get sick, and to try and avoid illness like cold and flu is actually doing more harm then good.

All this paranoia about colds and flus and bacteria, and using all these sprays and flu vaccinations its taking the job out of the hands of our immune systems and then the immune system gets "bored" for lack of a better term and can turn on itself or develop a nice wad of allergies.

If it were just my wife and me, I'd just take the regular precautions. But with my daughter, who is part of those "higher risk" groups based on her young age, I have to consider the shots.

Kids have great immune systems, we just have to let them do what they do best. I mean, how many of us as kids in the 80s and before were taken to the doctor to get anti-botics whenever we got a sniffle, when I was crook as a kid I was given a hot water bottle, plenty of fluids, jelly and bed rest, none of this damn poly-pharmacy that we see today.

The only thing you need to watch is sore throats, if the kid is always getting a sore throat with fever you need to get to the doctor in case it blows up into a case of Rheumatic fever, it won't kill quickly, but it can cause a bit of damage in the long term.

Oh, and good diet helps out too.

And that's my long winded health rant for the day.

Just Negare wrote:

Me, Grimlock! wrote:She's two and doesn't understand enough to protect herself; she'll suck her fingers moments after wiping her nose.

That's no problem. Those are her bugs. We all have our own little colony of bugs living inside us, and up us and on us et cetera and they're pretty harmless to us because our body's environment is geared up to be hospitable to them.

But children need to be allowed to develop their own immune system.

If it was just wiping her nose nad sucking her fingers, I'd be okay. But she touches the same toys as other kids, wipes her hands along surfaces like cafeteria tables, all that kind of stuff.

Just Negare wrote:

Me, Grimlock! wrote:Compounded by parents who send their kids to daycare sick or well, that worries me. All I can suggest is that the daycare worker refuses kids that are sick.

You should be more worried about kids who are coming to daycare who aren't vaccinated, because those little tykes could be brewing up a super strand of the disease all the other kids are vaccinated against. But people over react to normal cold and flu, kids need to catch these things and as long as they have good parents who don't tie them out in the yard with a sack to sleep in, they'll be fine.

So I shouldn't vaccinate her and let her immune system build up? I'm one of those parents that lets her play in the dirt, come in, and be dirty (well... not dirty the house, but be dirty). She picks up rocks, rolls around outside, all that. I know farmers have a Wolverine-like immune system because they're outside in all sorts of dirt, doing all sorts of things, working with all sorts of animals, cleaning up all sorts of disgusting fecal matter infested with all sorts of bugs, so they have every opportunity to build up their immunities. My daughter will never have that sort of immune system, but we can get as close as we can.

But now we're told to wash our hands all the time, which is something I'm not sure she'll really understand. Especially covering her mouth when she sneezes and nagging other kids to do it: I don't know if, as a two-year-old, she has the cognitive capacity to understand that and, more so, to understand why so she can "improvise" in situations she was never taught about.

The bottom line is... should I let her immune system do its thing or prepare her for everything by getting vaccinated? (Her other immunizations are all up to date.)

yup. my school is getting the vaccine at the end of the month.

Counterpunch wrote:I will be getting one if I can get the nasal dosage instead of the injection.

I get really bad blood pressure drops from injections and it wrecks me for a day or two.

U see I'm the opposite. I'd rather have the injection. Course getting either one is difficult cause they placing the priority on children and old people. I'm 30 so I guess I'm screwed. Seriously I do want one.

Well, the bank I work for was supposed to get so many doses set aside for us. Those doses are G. O. N. E. gone dadio. Instead we're being offered vouchers for whenever Walgreens gets it.
In any case, I'm not gonna get it. I don't get the regular flu vaccines, and despite taking public transportation, I haven't gotten the flu yet. H1N1 is this year's bird flu or West Nile virus: equal parts media hype and government idiocy.

Not to say I'm anti-vaccine by any stretch, mind you. I'm up on all my other shots. I just don't bother with the flu.

I'm not bashing vaccines, I'm just saying that i think this whole H1N1 think is way over hyped. This isn't 1915 people, and malaria has killed more people than H1N1 has so far.

Malaria kills about 1 million people a year http://www.imcworldwide.org/Page.aspx?pid=498&gclid=COzTkdD8z50CFQMupAod4grDtA

Back in August, H1N1 only killed 1800 people WORLDWIDE http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/161452.php#

I'm not too worried about it. I'm never around kids and from what I've heard on the news, that seems to be the target of choice for the H1N1 virus.

So I most likely won't get the vaccine, seeing as there is already reports of rationing. I feel, my immune system can probably handle it if I get it. I've had different types of flu over the years, so I'm sure my body will be more resistant to this strain. If that one vaccine I let a 5 year old that has a still developing immune system get instead of myself saves a life, it's worth it.

Hell no.

Everyone knows vaccines are the New World Order's way of injecting mind controlling agents into the general populace.

Pfah!

I'm in a similar spot as Fender Bender. With the situation of questionable vaccine supply, I'd rather give up my share so someone else who needs it more can have it.