The Energon Pub

LOL and I thought my Tracks arguement was funny! This is fun. But I agree that they "grow" by upgrading, unless they get christened by the Matrix, which seems to change them quite a bit immediately.

what I want to know is how do they have babies. I mean is it Primus or Vector Sigma or whatever that make the transformers or do the transformers make babies themselves I'm confused

Oh no not that agian.

OptitronPrime wrote:what I want to know is how do they have babies. I mean is it Primus or Vector Sigma or whatever that make the transformers or do the transformers make babies themselves I'm confused

This is a question that can not be answered any one way.In different continuities [G1 toon or Comic book] it was handeled differently.....bot counting any retcons done by the Ulitimate guide[Hasbro's attempt at relineing all continuities].
In the G1 toon they had to be built and then programed for life by some other means,Vector Sigma or some how Grimlock eith his super brain....and Wheeljack and Ratchet gave life to the Dinobots.We never saw any Transformers have any children, however we did see a race very much like the Transformers with children but how they had them is unknowen.

In the Marvel G2 comic book we learn that long ago Primus [TF's God] gave life to the first TF's and gave them the abilaty to reproduce by a form of cell division but still no children.Thes new TF's would kind of grow off other TF's fully grown.....after some time the TF's rase forgot about this form of reproduction and only the CREATION MATRIX [Matrix of leadership] a small part of Primus could give life to new Transformers.
I wont even go into the Japanese stuff.

I would say, yes, Transformers are indeed capable of growth. Just because they are "mechanoids, and not organic life shouldn't make a difference. There is enough evidence in various canon sources to support this, from both US and Japanese sources. The affore mentioned Lithonian children is a good example. Wheelie too is a child, and not because of "programming", because you don't "program" a living being. From the Japanese series, there is the children of the Dinoforce. None of these characters are "minibots" or drwafs, they're children, and they are growing. More proof that Transformers can and do have a true childhood, and thus do indeed grwo is the bio of the BotCon exclusive character, Shadow Striker. HEr bio specifically mentions her childhood Here is the link to her dartabase page: http://www.seibertron.com/database/character.php?view=hasbro&char_id=1205 Her bio talks not only about her childhood, but also her family including her sisters, one of whom was a younger sister who was killed.

TECH SPEC BIO

Forced to watch her third sister's death at the hands of nomadic invaders, Shadow Striker learned at a very early age the difference between those who held the power and those who were the power. She ran constant jobs for the criminal underworld and was particularly favored by one of the more feared gangsters who dabbled in Spark extraction technologies. The memory of her stolen childhood constantly haunts Shadow Striker as she struggles to come to terms with her past, present, and future. Has a specially outfitted engine that provides a sonic dampening cone, enabling her to employ a temporary stealth mode. In robot form, wields a titanium-reinforced shield and an acid hand blaster.
PROFILE

Forced to watch her younger sister's death at the hands of nomadic invaders, Shadow Striker learned at a very early age the difference between those who held the pwoer and those who were the power. Vowing to never allow anyone, Autobot ro Decepticon, to manipulate her ever again, she found herself gaining a somewhat questionable reputation among her peerrs. Learing to survive, and prosper, on the Cybertronian streets, she quickly became known for her boldness and resourcefulness. Shadow Striker ran constant jobs for the criminal underworld and was particularly favored by one of the more feared gangsters who dabbled in Spark extraction technologies. Needing to slip in and out of dangerous locales without being seen, she adopted one of the planet Earth's fastest forms. Defiant and proud, the memories of her stolen childhood constantly haunt Shadow Striker as she struggles to come to terms with her past, present and future.
ABILITIES

In car mode, she can attain a maximum speed of 400 kph with bursts up to 500 kph. Has a specially outfitted engine that provides a sonic dampening cone, enabiling her to employ a temporary stealth mode. In her robot form, wields a titanium-rienforced shield and an acid hand blaster as her preferred armament. Shoudl the need arise, Shadow Striker can also use her laser-guided rocket launcher.
WEAKNESSES

Shadow Striker's only source of comfort and guidance is her twin siter, Roulette. In battle or delciate negotiations, this can be used against her, as she will do anythign to prevent harm to her remaining family.

The bio of her sister, Roulette, here: http://www.seibertron.com/database/character.php?view=hasbro&char_id=1204 also supports this.

On top of this, we have several examples of Transformers who can grow and shrink at will through Parts compression and through Mass conversion. Add to that the fact that their bodies are formed from self-replicating nanomachines, there is no reason why they couldn't grow physically.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

OptitronPrime wrote:what I want to know is how do they have babies. I mean is it Primus or Vector Sigma or whatever that make the transformers or do the transformers make babies themselves I'm confused

This is a question that can not be answered any one way.In different continuities [G1 toon or Comic book] it was handeled differently.....bot counting any retcons done by the Ulitimate guide[Hasbro's attempt at relineing all continuities].
In the G1 toon they had to be built and then programed for life by some other means,Vector Sigma or some how Grimlock eith his super brain....and Wheeljack and Ratchet gave life to the Dinobots.We never saw any Transformers have any children, however we did see a race very much like the Transformers with children but how they had them is unknowen.

In the Marvel G2 comic book we learn that long ago Primus [TF's God] gave life to the first TF's and gave them the abilaty to reproduce by a form of cell division but still no children.Thes new TF's would kind of grow off other TF's fully grown.....after some time the TF's rase forgot about this form of reproduction and only the CREATION MATRIX [Matrix of leadership] a small part of Primus could give life to new Transformers.
I wont even go into the Japanese stuff.

As sto_vo_kor mentioned, most examples from the G1 cartoon show them primarily being built, which is the primary method of TF creation—factory-built protoforms imbued with a spark. However, there is evidence in the cartoon and other sources, including the Japanese material, DW comics, and Ultimate Guide, that suggest that Transformers can and do reproduce through some sexual means. Be it interfacing, or some other method which does not require building a body and imbuing a spark. Their romantic relationships between males and females, the children and families, and the statements in MtmtE that specifically state that Transformers have other untapped potenial for creating new life aside from building them and imbuing them with sparks, is all evidence of this, contrary to what some people say. Whether you coose to accept this is up to you.

Oh, god…
If you saw the “theories on transformer reproduction” thread, you know this is going to get nasty.

Whiner-tron wrote:Oh, god…
If you saw the “theories on transformer reproduction” thread, you know this is going to get nasty.

I think we should hide, far, far away from this thread...

Whiner-tron wrote:Oh, god…
If you saw the “theories on transformer reproduction” thread, you know this is going to get nasty.

I'm hoping for a happy ending this time

Also, keep in mind before anyone applies any biological laws to Transformers, Robots don't occur biologically anyway. You don't see nature documentaries on robots, so one we start getting our own sentient robots in say, 2000 odd years, (If the world doesn't blow up by then) I'm willing to bet scientists will have the sense to apply different laws to them. You can't apply laws such as sexual reproduction to anything that it's not necessary for, and is just down right stupid to do. And any "Evidence" of sexual reproduction amongst Transformers is not concrete AT ALL, and we've SEEN how Transformers are created. And as has been stated time and time again, you can't apply anything MTMTE or the Ultimate Guide say either, since both are non-canon sources, as you'll find that a majority of members will agree, and I've seen that a majority of member DO agree that neither are reliable or canon anymore.

Well, personally, I would prefer it not get nasty.

Damolisher wrote:Also, keep in mind before anyone applies any biological laws to Transformers, Robots don't occur biologically anyway. You don't see nature documentaries on robots, so one we start getting our own sentient robots in say, 2000 odd years, (If the world doesn't blow up by then) I'm willing to bet scientists will have the sense to apply different laws to them. You can't apply laws such as sexual reproduction to anything that it's not necessary for, and is just down right stupid to do. And any "Evidence" of sexual reproduction amongst Transformers is not concrete AT ALL, and we've SEEN how Transformers are created. And as has been stated time and time again, you can't apply anything MTMTE or the Ultimate Guide say either, since both are non-canon sources, as you'll find that a majority of members will agree, and I've seen that a majority of member DO agree that neither are reliable or canon anymore.

Both DW and the Ultimate Guide are canon sources. They were both produced under license from Hasbro, and the Ultimate Guide itself was just reporinted with additional information from IDW and the movie. If the being "outdated" was grounds for a series or book to not be canon, then the original G1 cartoon and Marvel G1 comics aren't canon either, and I don't think anyone agrees with that notion. Therefore, The Dreamwave comics are still just as canon and any other source. Their production and the stories written in them were written under the authority of, and approved by Hasbro. Thus, they are canon. If they aren't, then neither is the original cartyoon and Marvel comics since both are even more "outdated" than the Dreamwave material.

Ugh, here we go again... You've been told by every man and his dog they're not canon sources. And most normal people accept the fact they're wrong when you have a significant number of people telling you when they aren't canon. And your definition of canon is WRONG. You seem to think something being outdated is a reason to not regard what it sas. You think everything overwrites the G1 cartoon. You also appear to be the only one who's heard of these so called "Hasbro authorised retcons." Even a couple of the Admins appear to not know what you're on about, and you don't become an admin here based on what you DON'T know.

Tramp wrote:

Damolisher wrote:Also, keep in mind before anyone applies any biological laws to Transformers, Robots don't occur biologically anyway. You don't see nature documentaries on robots, so one we start getting our own sentient robots in say, 2000 odd years, (If the world doesn't blow up by then) I'm willing to bet scientists will have the sense to apply different laws to them. You can't apply laws such as sexual reproduction to anything that it's not necessary for, and is just down right stupid to do. And any "Evidence" of sexual reproduction amongst Transformers is not concrete AT ALL, and we've SEEN how Transformers are created. And as has been stated time and time again, you can't apply anything MTMTE or the Ultimate Guide say either, since both are non-canon sources, as you'll find that a majority of members will agree, and I've seen that a majority of member DO agree that neither are reliable or canon anymore.

Both DW and the Ultimate Guide are canon sources. They were both produced under license from Hasbro, and the Ultimate Guide itself was just reporinted with additional information from IDW and the movie. If the being "outdated" was grounds for a series or book to not be canon, then the original G1 cartoon and Marvel G1 comics aren't canon either, and I don't think anyone agrees with that notion. Therefore, The Dreamwave comics are still just as canon and any other source. Their production and the stories written in them were written under the authority of, and approved by Hasbro. Thus, they are canon. If they aren't, then neither is the original cartyoon and Marvel comics since both are even more "outdated" than the Dreamwave material.

exmothraforkinzactly. no more or less valid than any of the other dozen or so conflicting TF continuities and their own respective sources. finally.[/b]

Damolisher wrote:Ugh, here we go again... You've been told by every man and his dog they're not canon sources. And most normal people accept the fact they're wrong when you have a significant number of people telling you when they aren't canon. And your definition of canon is WRONG. You seem to think something being outdated is a reason to not regard what it sas. You think everything overwrites the G1 cartoon. You also appear to be the only one who's heard of these so called "Hasbro authorised retcons." Even a couple of the Admins appear to not know what you're on about, and you don't become an admin here based on what you DON'T know.

No, Damolisher, the only person who has said that aren't canon sources is you, and that is because they disagree with your viewpoint. You are the one who has said they weren't canon because they were "outdated" those were your words. The definition of canon is an authorative list of works by an author accepted as authentic, officially recognized list of [Sacred] books, or a comprehensive list of books in a field. the DW comics and the Ultimate Guide were officially licensed books produced under Hasbor's authority. The Ultiomate Guide was juast reprinted with additional material, and IDW has already reprinted some of DW's works, and appear to have plans to reprint more when they can. That certainly qualifies that material as canon.

When two Transformers love each other very much, they are visited by Storkatron, who delivers a big bundle of metal joy.

Unfortunately Storkatron was retired when he accidentally dropped Omega Supreme on his parents' house, killing them instantly.

So now they have to get their kids the old fashioned way, buying a DIY make-your-own-transformer kit from their local Botmart.

Unfortunately, the Transformers that didn't specialize in mechanics ended up making dysfunctional and malformed Transformers that had to be institutionalized immediately upon birth. They would later come to be known as Decepticons.

Eventually, people realized that building psychotic killing machines was best left to the experts. Unfortunately the holy trinity of Primus, Unicron, and Wheelie had already been completed, all hell broke loose.

Primus taught his children, that they must live a life of chaste, and allow their children to be built in factories by professionals.

While Unicron's debacuhery laden scriptures encouraged Transformers to get down and dirty, and build Decepticons out of mud.

Wheelie, once the all powerful god of all gods, was sadly stripped of his holy power and given to Grimlock as a footstool, and to forever be tormented by Daniel. Wheelie went insane and put a curse on all Transformers in his death throes, forcing them to exist with no factories and no mud, and forever be lost within conflicting plot lines.

And the moral of the story is, Transformers reproduce in whatever way the writer of the time says they reproduce.

Thus concludes my theory on Transformers reproduction.

OK, wil you knock it off with the frequent "NO Damolisher, duh, the only one who's going against my beloved and infallible oppinion is you?" Bullshit? Because anyone with eyes and at least half a brain has seen that Shadowman, Coutnerpunch, and even Cyber Bishop himself have said in this or other topics they don't consider the guide canon. I'm not the only one saying anything, troll, and you've been told by me and PLENTY OF OTHER POSTERS IT ISN'T CANON! This is what you were on suspension for- you always think you're right, and anyone disagreeing with you is wrong. Get over it, Tramp, you know very little about Transformers.

IjuinTekka wrote:When two Transformers love each other very much, they are visited by Storkatron, who delivers a big bundle of metal joy.

Unfortunately Storkatron was retired when he accidentally dropped Omega Supreme on his parents' house, killing them instantly.

So now they have to get their kids the old fashioned way, buying a DIY make-your-own-transformer kit from their local Botmart.

Unfortunately, the Transformers that didn't specialize in mechanics ended up making dysfunctional and malformed Transformers that had to be institutionalized immediately upon birth. They would later come to be known as Decepticons.

Eventually, people realized that building psychotic killing machines was best left to the experts. Unfortunately the holy trinity of Primus, Unicron, and Wheelie had already been completed, all hell broke loose.

Primus taught his children, that they must live a life of chaste, and allow their children to be built in factories by professionals.

While Unicron's debacuhery laden scriptures encouraged Transformers to get down and dirty, and build Decepticons out of mud.

Wheelie, once the all powerful god of all gods, was sadly stripped of his holy power and given to Grimlock as a footstool, and to forever be tormented by Daniel. Wheelie went insane and put a curse on all Transformers in his death throes, forcing them to exist with no factories and no mud, and forever be lost within conflicting plot lines.

And the moral of the story is, Transformers reproduce in whatever way the writer of the time says they reproduce.

Thus concludes my theory on Transformers reproduction.

IjuinTekka= Winner of User of the Year. Also, he is nominated for the following category:

Satirical post of the year
Multiple Poster ownage post of the year
User of the millenium
And the sacred
Post of the lifetime.

Damolisher, I know a lot about Transformers. I've been watching them and reading them longer than you've been alive. Secondly, I never saids my "opinon" is infallible. But no one here has to authority to say a source is not canon. The only authority in regards to what is or is not canon is Hasbro. They authorized and approved the publication of those stories, and the material therein. By definition, that makes those materials canon. Secondly, just as many people have agreed that these materials are indeed canon. Simply put, we do not determine what is or is not canon. Only Hasbro does. They do this by authorizing and approving the stories and their publication. If the license changes hands or a story ends, that does not relegate that story or line to non-canon status. Just because Hasbro decides to retcon certain information from a previous source in a later source does not make the later source non-canon, nor totally eliminate the previous source. All that changes is that one piece of information that was retconned. Everything else remains intact. Whether an individual fan considers something canon in their personal canon is not in issue, what is official canon, is only deterimined by hasbro. Officially, these materials are canon because they were published under Hasbro's authority and with their full approval. That makes them canon, and that status cannot be revoked by anyone but Hasbro, and there has been no official word from them that these books are removed from canon. Therefore, officially they are canon sources regardless of what anyone else says.

Tramp wrote:Damolisher, I know a lot about Transformers. I've been watching them and reading them longer than you've been alive. But no one here has to authority to say a source is not canon. The only authority in regards to what is or is not canon is Hasbro. They authorized and approved the publication of those stories, and the material therein. By definition, that makes those materials canon. Secondly, just as many people have agreed that these materials are indeed canon. Simply put, we do not determine what is or is not canon. Only Hasbro does. They do this by authorizing and approving the stories and their publication. If the license changes hands or a story ends, that does not relegate that story or line to non-canon status. Therefore, officially they are canon sources regardless of what anyone else says.

In other words: (Stop arguing after this, because I echo Whiner-Tron's sentiments. You've been back 5 seconds and alread you're trying to act like Mr Bigshot know-it-all again.)

What Tramp means wrote:Because I'm older than you, I think I know more than you. No-one here has the authority to say what is and isn't canon but Hasbro, and even though I don't work for Hasbro, I still like to tell everyone what i think anyway. Regardless of what anyone says, I am right! The end!

Tramp, once again: Becuase you think it's right, it's right, and anyone telling you otherwise knows nothing. You think you know more than anyone who tells you you're wrong. You never admit when you're wrong. (And don't change the subject to "I'm not wrong about this" because I'm not just talking about this. It's every topic someone says you're wrong, you tell them THEY'RE the ones who are wrong.

You are not always right. Hell, you're hardly ever right. Have you ever met any members here who argue with other posteres who disagrees with them like you Tramp? You're the only one I ever argue this badly with. And why? Because you think your'e always right, when I know for a fact yuo're wrong. You're here 5 seconds and you try to act like you know more than everyone here, and I take personal offense to that. You try to tell everyone what to think, and that's why you're unpopular. Dont' argue with me, just go and think about it, and you'll see I'm right.

Damolisher, I',m not trying to tell anyone they are wrong, not saying I am always right. What I am saying is officially, these materials are just as canon as any other officially licensed source because they were publsihed under Hasbro's license, with their full approval and authority. What proof do you have that says otherwise? Do you have the word form a Hasbro exect? Do you have the word from Aaron Archer? I doubt it. There is no official word which states that the Dreamwave material is not coanon. There is no official word that the Ultimate Giuide is not canon. What gives any of us the right to say that these materials are not canon? Only Hasbro has that authority. Thus, until they specifically say that these are not canon, then they are indeed officially canon. Whether we as individuals choose to accept them into our personal canon is not in dispute. That is purely a matter of personal taste. I accept anything from official canon. I don't discriminate. Others only choose the G1 cartoons, still others, choose the Marvel comnics, and others still choose the IDW materials. All of it is canon, but we can each choose which is or favorite stories and what we prefer. We don't have the right to determine what is or is not officially canon, and when we discuss things that require canon evidence, then any and all official sources, including the Ultimate Guide and the DW comcis are fully authoritive and viable evidence, as is the Japanese material. We can't discount any of it simply because we don't like it or it contradicts other sources, or our personal views.

Do we really have to go through this vicious circle again? We all know neither of you will give up, we all know you both have valid points, because there is no right answer. It's all subjective.

The only thing you're going to accomplish is getting the thread locked.

My attempt to unite us all through humour has failed, so I shall appeal to your intelligence. Please, find it within yourselves to stop all the childish baiting and call it quits. Let it go after this post, and stop the baiting in this and other threads.

I know you have the capacity to forgive and forget within you.

I have no problem with that.

IjuinTekka wrote:Do we really have to go through this vicious circle again? We all know neither of you will give up, we all know you both have valid points, because there is no right answer. It's all subjective.

The only thing you're going to accomplish is getting the thread locked.

My attempt to unite us all through humour has failed, so I shall appeal to your intelligence. Please, find it within yourselves to stop all the childish baiting and call it quits. Let it go after this post, and stop the baiting in this and other threads.

I know you have the capacity to forgive and forget within you.

See, now I appreciated the humour. that;s why I nominated you for the various award I mentioned

Huzzah!