The Energon Pub

Yeah, I tried, it wasn't there. Normallly, I wouldn't care, but It took me about half an hour to 45 min. There were several quotes and pics for comparision, and I really was trying to convey a point(rare for me). So it sux when I lost it.

Brief summation. Nevermind, there is no such thing.

I think this thread has run it's course.

Also, I agree the goatee and the big chin look weird, but so does the mouth altogether, so that's all.

...and the voices. What I heard made it sound very...Hee Hee HeeCARTOONISH. It reminded me of TEEN TITANS. Not that, that is bad, but I have been spoiled by what has gone previously.

It sux, but I think I'm getting old.

DJDrew&ScoobyDoo wrote:I wrote a huge long responce to everything in this thread and it didn't take.

Arrgh, I'm not writing it all again. I give up.

I like OP with a faceplate and I'm OK with that.

PM OP showed a mouth behind the faceplate. I credit that due to the Nebulan interaction. Songbird children's books and the UK Marvel comix sometimes showed OP with a mouth.

PM OP isn't Prime, he's God Ginray ore wat ever his weired name is.

Songbird I won't take as an official thing but uk Marvel comics may go for it.

Jinrai and God Jinrai are form the Jap. continuum. I am aware of that. However, we were talking about a mouth underneath the faceplate in the comix.

In the Marvel Comix run, PM OP was an upgraded OP. OP dies numerous times. They rebuilt him(faster, stronger) However, his powercore wouldn't sustain him. However, due to Nebulan technology, once partnered with High Q, OP could still live. However, it effected both of them. High Q, was no longer truly Nebulan, hence his ability to raise the Last Autobot in the final few issues of the US Marvel Comix run.

DJDrew&ScoobyDoo wrote:Jinrai and God Jinrai are form the Jap. continuum. I am aware of that. However, we were talking about a mouth underneath the faceplate in the comix.

In the Marvel Comix run, PM OP was an upgraded OP. OP dies numerous times. They rebuilt him(faster, stronger) However, his powercore wouldn't sustain him. However, due to Nebulan technology, once partnered with High Q, OP could still live. However, it effected both of them. High Q, was no longer truly Nebulan, hence his ability to raise the Last Autobot in the final few issues of the US Marvel Comix run.

The more i acknowledge from the old comics the more Transformers loses sense....
So Prime died how often? Just as much as Kenny from South Park?

lol. It seems like it. I will have to go over the series again. If I miss something, someone let me know.

TF 1-4 Miniseries run. Lat issues all the Autobots are dead, thanx to Shockwave. SW beheads OP, but doesn't kill him.

Somewhere in the #20's Megatron challenges OP to battle in a virtual world. The loser is destroyed for real. Megs cheats(of course) OP looses and is blown up! Boo Hoo, however the human running the virtual world uploads OP's personality to a disk. OP's body is blasted into outer space.

Periodically the Human plays Op as a video game. Wonders how to bring him back.

#30-50's a lot of side stories with an occasional outer space tale. Starscream is out to get the undersea base and the power supply, somehow linked to OP. SS gets's it, get's really big, insane and eventually blows up. This leads eventually to finding OP's body and the Matrix.

Somewhere in there was the TF: Headmasters miniseries 1-4. Shows TF's going to Nebulos and the creation of Headmasters and Targetmasters.

Align with TF and the idea of Powermasters. The first few attempts to rebuild Prime as disastrous. However, with Powermasters tech it becomes a reality.

#60-end is the Matrix quest. Some of the best comic book writing ever(IMO).

It all gets a little fuzzy there. I think OP is blown up again, but High Q is left with some humans(I forgot there name but they were super heroes to battle TF's, Circuit Breaker was part of them and she hated all TF's not just the Decpets), they were funded by JB(?) Blackrock, who was a constant supporter(human) of the Autobots, due to there run ins over the comic series.

I was planning on going through the comix again. I will do so soon. However, I want to finish WORLD WAR Z: an oral history of the Zombie War before I do so.

So, if anyone else can fill in the blanks or missing info until I can, feel free.

So Kenny realy is a Prime ripoff!

Dead Metal wrote:

Tramp wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Now G1 Prime had now mouth, the faceplate just moved to alow the voiceactores to do there bit.

Since animated nore the Movie are G1 it dosn't matter that he has a mouth.
I'de say that on those two Primes the mouth realy fits and looks good, unlike Cybertron's Prime.

Face it, they won't change it, cos unlike a 3D model they can't animore!
They would have to do the whole show (animated) again!

Face it that Prime mouth looks cool!

Actually, there is comicbook evidence that showed G1 Prime did indeed have a mouth under his faceplate.

Do you have a scan of that? I'de like to see that.

No, but I do have the issues packed away.

DJDrew&ScoobyDoo wrote:Yeah, but OP was an Upgrade from Orion Pax.

Only in the cartoon continuity, in the comics, particularly war Within, he started out a character named Optronix.

Counterpunch wrote:Oral fixation?

Waaaah, G1 people can't and won't adapt to anything new.

Waaaah, New Guys place a bloated sense of importance on everything new.

It's all the same idiotic crap that happens with every new series.

No one wins these arguments. They just create a bunch of loosers.

I think that's a fair assessment of the fanbase maybe a year or so ago. Now, I don't see that many "Geewunners" so to speak. Most people want change, just not too much change, or if you're going to change, use a totally new cast of characters and context(Beast Wars).

The G1 continuity block, G1 cartoon, G1 comic, G1 anime, G2, Beast Wars and Beast Machines, is the only part of Transformers that's really that good. As soon as they tried to reboot the universe, they just started to get everything wrong. Tried too hard to be "hip" and follow other kids anime/cartoons instead of failing to realise how iconic Transformers can be.

This is why there's so much resistance to change - first off that people like Sonray come and shove it down our throats, and you can't even reason with them since they just go "Me!? Shoving stuff down people's throats? You are joking right!!!!", and secondly that most change HAS either been bad, or unnecessary.

The movie would have been a better movie if they'd have changed less, in terms of how many fans it would have pleased.

But yeah, I guess lips on Prime are offensive for the reason as much as the plate. But it's still ICONIC, that he keeps it on all of the time. Prime speaking with the plate is iconic, not the fact that he raises it into battle. Then it's no different from, say, Bumblebee's mask.

The thing to remember that change for change's sake, when something isn't really broken, is not a good thing, inherently. Only good change should be praised, and good here is subjective.

People should be allowed to whine. It's part of the fun of being a fan, that you can actually take issues with some of what you're a fan of. It helps you remember what it is that made you a fan to begin with. People like, say, the guy who writes Shortpacked kind of ruin it for all of us. They suck the fun, the drama out of being a fan. They fail to realise why fans are like that and why it's best for them to be like that.

This new breed of change-pusher isn't something that's good for the fandom, at all. If we had taken a more united front against the movie, the execs behind the movie may have been worried this negativity would bleed over into the mainstream, and threw us a few bones. Even if you didn't mind change, you should at least stand up knowing that others do. I think a kind of selfishness and confusion is what caused a lot of what happened to the fanbase.

What happened also proves to me that merely being calm on the surface isn't enough - the boards seem to have calmed down a bit since more people have been bullied into submission. Most people that end up with mods, no offense, tend to be raised on the rather stupid ideas that people shouting and getting angry is what's bad(though make some exceptions for people they agree with, as is probably the case with Sonray right now), and anything else is good. As far as I'm concerned a couple of other TF boards I was on are much worse now, the whole fandom seems it. Calm doesn't mean better. it's better to have aggressive discussion as it shows that people just might be thinking for themselves and expressing themselves passionately. That's also part of the fun of being a fan, indicdentally.

There. Since people wanted to drag this a bit off topic, I said my piece. If someone wants to complain about anything to do with Transformers, they should be allowed to do so without some immature **** shouting in their face for it.

Soundwave had a mouth in some of the early G1 comics. It looked **** creepy. So glad they fixed it.

Generally, I take G1 to be a mix of cartoon and comic, generally taking the personalities and designs from the cartoon, but the in depth plots from the comic.

ghostofstarscream wrote:isn't anyone used to prime having lips yet?

Yeah, kinda like how I'm used to the dead mouse smell coming from under my bathroom...dosen't make it smell any better.

IMHO, the removal of Prime's plate has more to do with a trend in society to remove any form of censor than it really does his look. Look at pro wrestling. Just about any time somebody comes out with a mask on, somewhere down the line they *have* to have a match where he takes it off. Comics...same thing, every villian tries to remove the mask of the superhero, as if knowing his secret identity would make him any less of a challenge. I would assume with Prime, it would follow the reasoning JJ gave in the Spider-man movie: What does he have to hide?

Anyway, from a technical standpoint, a robot does not need a mouth. It is a machine, & even if it does need fuel, it does not have to be inserted through the face...or the head for that matter.

As far as emotions are concerned, eyes work just fine, as well as other body language, & vocal intensity, which I might add Cullen did rather well. It all creates a well-rounded package that can be done with or without a mouth.
Hell, Anthony Daniels as C3-P0 conveyed emotion just fine by by doing nothing more than waving his arms around.

& as far as the series go:

G1 prime didn't have one

G2 Prime didn't

BW didn't untill the writers at mainframe decided he needed one. Of course, Primal isn't Prime.

RID Prime had no mouth, not even in supermode as mentioned earlier. There was an indention in the faceplate, but no mouth in the indention.

Armada didn't.

Energon Prime originally had one, but fan outcry coupled with the Japanese cartoon taking its cues from Takara's version that had a faceplate forced Hasbro to remove the mouth on later releases of the toy(one of my darker collecting moments involves buying a new Energon Prime simply to swap heads with my older one for a mouthless head & returning the mouthy head with the newer prime back to the store.)

& Cybertron was the first one to actually have the removable faceplate.

well, anyway, that's about my $0.03

& in conclusion, I think Prime is better without a mouth, & perfer that he dosen't.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

ghostofstarscream wrote:isn't anyone used to prime having lips yet?

Yeah, kinda like how I'm used to the dead mouse smell coming from under my bathroom...dosen't make it smell any better.

IMHO, the removal of Prime's plate has more to do with a trend in society to remove any form of censor than it really does his look. Look at pro wrestling. Just about any time somebody comes out with a mask on, somewhere down the line they *have* to have a match where he takes it off. Comics...same thing, every villian tries to remove the mask of the superhero, as if knowing his secret identity would make him any less of a challenge. I would assume with Prime, it would follow the reasoning JJ gave in the Spider-man movie: What does he have to hide?

Anyway, from a technical standpoint, a robot does not need a mouth. It is a machine, & even if it does need fuel, it does not have to be inserted through the face...or the head for that matter.

As far as emotions are concerned, eyes work just fine, as well as other body language, & vocal intensity, which I might add Cullen did rather well. It all creates a well-rounded package that can be done with or without a mouth.
Hell, Anthony Daniels as C3-P0 conveyed emotion just fine by by doing nothing more than waving his arms around.

& as far as the series go:

G1 prime didn't have one

G2 Prime didn't

BW didn't untill the writers at mainframe decided he needed one. Of course, Primal isn't Prime.

RID Prime had no mouth, not even in supermode as mentioned earlier. There was an indention in the faceplate, but no mouth in the indention.

Armada didn't.

Energon Prime originally had one, but fan outcry coupled with the Japanese cartoon taking its cues from Takara's version that had a faceplate forced Hasbro to remove the mouth on later releases of the toy(one of my darker collecting moments involves buying a new Energon Prime simply to swap heads with my older one for a mouthless head & returning the mouthy head with the newer prime back to the store.)

& Cybertron was the first one to actually have the removable faceplate.

well, anyway, that's about my $0.03

& in conclusion, I think Prime is better without a mouth, & perfer that he dosen't.

Actually, G1 and G2 Prime did too have a mouth under his face plate. Secondly, they may be robotsic, but they are still life forms. Life forms need to eat. Not just fuel to power their systems, but other nutrients to build new "cells" and to heal. With their regenerative systems, Transformers would need to eat raw materials of some form that their regenerative systems could use to heal the damaged parts. Materials such as raw metals, silicon, plastics, etc. just like we need to eat protien, calcium, vitamins, and such. We don;t just eat carbohydrates for energy, why would a living robot only need Energon for energy and not other nutrients for strong, healthy internal sytems? To consume such nutrients would require a mouth. There are numerous examples of Transformers eating. In Season 3 of the cartoon, we see Octian and Tripticon eating and drinking energon cubes. In the original movie, we see the Sharkticons devouring other robots. Hungurr is known to snack on an opponent, as is Skullcruncher.

Are we forgetting that this is just a cartoon people?

The second Animated Prime toy to be released has a face plate.

Just buy that?

Tramp says:

Actually, G1 and G2 Prime did too have a mouth under his face plate.

I think that, that is still in doubt, read entire thread.

there is a several parts in G2 where prime gets his faceplate damaged and u can see teeth under it

OK, I never read G2, I couldn't get past the art style.

I don't think that it was every shown in G1.

DJDrew&ScoobyDoo wrote:OK, I never read G2, I couldn't get past the art style.

I don't think that it was every shown in G1.

They did once, but that was it. I can't tell you which issue at the moment becuase, as I said before, all my old Marvel comics are packed away.

You really love those comics don't you Tramp?

The Master Blaster wrote:You really love those comics don't you Tramp?

Yep. They're all in bags and packed away in a box safe and sound.

Tramp wrote:

The Master Blaster wrote:You really love those comics don't you Tramp?

Yep. They're all in bags and packed away in a box safe and sound.

I love it when tf stuff is cared for properly

Tramp wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

ghostofstarscream wrote:isn't anyone used to prime having lips yet?

Yeah, kinda like how I'm used to the dead mouse smell coming from under my bathroom...dosen't make it smell any better.

IMHO, the removal of Prime's plate has more to do with a trend in society to remove any form of censor than it really does his look. Look at pro wrestling. Just about any time somebody comes out with a mask on, somewhere down the line they *have* to have a match where he takes it off. Comics...same thing, every villian tries to remove the mask of the superhero, as if knowing his secret identity would make him any less of a challenge. I would assume with Prime, it would follow the reasoning JJ gave in the Spider-man movie: What does he have to hide?

Anyway, from a technical standpoint, a robot does not need a mouth. It is a machine, & even if it does need fuel, it does not have to be inserted through the face...or the head for that matter.

As far as emotions are concerned, eyes work just fine, as well as other body language, & vocal intensity, which I might add Cullen did rather well. It all creates a well-rounded package that can be done with or without a mouth.
Hell, Anthony Daniels as C3-P0 conveyed emotion just fine by by doing nothing more than waving his arms around.

& as far as the series go:

G1 prime didn't have one

G2 Prime didn't

BW didn't untill the writers at mainframe decided he needed one. Of course, Primal isn't Prime.

RID Prime had no mouth, not even in supermode as mentioned earlier. There was an indention in the faceplate, but no mouth in the indention.

Armada didn't.

Energon Prime originally had one, but fan outcry coupled with the Japanese cartoon taking its cues from Takara's version that had a faceplate forced Hasbro to remove the mouth on later releases of the toy(one of my darker collecting moments involves buying a new Energon Prime simply to swap heads with my older one for a mouthless head & returning the mouthy head with the newer prime back to the store.)

& Cybertron was the first one to actually have the removable faceplate.

well, anyway, that's about my $0.03

& in conclusion, I think Prime is better without a mouth, & perfer that he dosen't.

Actually, G1 and G2 Prime did too have a mouth under his face plate. Secondly, they may be robotsic, but they are still life forms. Life forms need to eat. Not just fuel to power their systems, but other nutrients to build new "cells" and to heal. With their regenerative systems, Transformers would need to eat raw materials of some form that their regenerative systems could use to heal the damaged parts. Materials such as raw metals, silicon, plastics, etc. just like we need to eat protien, calcium, vitamins, and such. We don;t just eat carbohydrates for energy, why would a living robot only need Energon for energy and not other nutrients for strong, healthy internal sytems? To consume such nutrients would require a mouth. There are numerous examples of Transformers eating. In Season 3 of the cartoon, we see Octian and Tripticon eating and drinking energon cubes. In the original movie, we see the Sharkticons devouring other robots. Hungurr is known to snack on an opponent, as is Skullcruncher.

A: I never did read the comics. But in the cartoon, the introduction on the first episode itself said they weren't life as we know it. Therefore the same rules of food & body cells & stuff need not apply. However, it is apparent that over the years numerous people did not see them as life "not as we know it" & so have applied more organic traits to them.

B: The cartoon had numerous ways of TFs recieving energy...everything from CR chambers to getting struck by lightning. So ingestion via mouth was not necessary, & apparently not used by all TFs.

C: Unless it was in the original comics, TFs didn't actually rebuild via cellular growth untill the Energon series, such as when Hot Shot grew an arm back after Megatron tore it off. Before that, they just had spare parts lying around. (Autobot Spike anyone?)


D: When I was talking about which primes had mouths, I was referring to the toys, not the inconsistant cartoons & comics.

I feel sorta bad for disregarding/ignorning all previously stated opinions while inserting my own, and that is:

Optimus Prime with his face-cover-thing is more visually satisfying to me. The animated version of his face without the faceplate bothers the hooblah out of me.

I just wanted to state my opinion, 'tis all.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:A: I never did read the comics. But in the cartoon, the introduction on the first episode itself said they weren't life as we know it. Therefore the same rules of food & body cells & stuff need not apply. However, it is apparent that over the years numerous people did not see them as life "not as we know it" & so have applied more organic traits to them.

Well, the term "life as we know it" refers to organic life. Life, regardles of what it is made out of, still has to meet certain requirements to even be classified as life. Among them is the ability to metabolize food and to grow and heal.

B: The cartoon had numerous ways of TFs recieving energy...everything from CR chambers to getting struck by lightning. So ingestion via mouth was not necessary, & apparently not used by all TFs.

CR chambers were not methods of gaining nurishmnent, they were for healing.

C: Unless it was in the original comics, TFs didn't actually rebuild via cellular growth untill the Energon series, such as when Hot Shot grew an arm back after Megatron tore it off. Before that, they just had spare parts lying around. (Autobot Spike anyone?)

They were capable of healing. Not full blown regeneration, as in regrowing limbs and such, but they could heal over time. This was brought up in the original comics as well. Its called nanites.

D: When I was talking about which primes had mouths, I was referring to the toys, not the inconsistant cartoons & comics.

Regardless, Why wouldn't Prime have a mouth under his face plate. A face plate is designed to protect the face. You have to have something to protect.

It scares me that we have to justify plot points in order to prove Prime has a mouth in G1/G2. Who cares whether he does or he doesn't? He has a mouth in this new series, it happens, we'll get over it.

I Guess we'll never get our G1 Movie we always wanted....but on topic I never really liked the mouth or anything I didn't like in that movie, but overall it was a good movie....