The Energon Pub

I write this because it interests me and because I know there must be some parents out there on these forums. If you are a parent, please chime in on this thread, I will be glad to read from you.

This post is about introducing my children to the Transformers toys and story via the G1 cartoons, some Knock-Off toys, and a few official toys. If that doesn't interest you then TMTDNR and PDNR.

The Target Audience:
I'm the father of 3 girls (ages 10, 7 & 5) and a 2yo boy; Hasbro has nothing on my marketing abilities.

How to Introduce:
I know the Transformers: Animated show is coming out but until it arrives I won't know how different it is; chances are it will be good, but I'm not sure it'll be as great an introduction (the G1 cartoon was good about having lots and lots of Autobots and Decepticons in each show even if they don't speak much; the new show features less characters and cameos others - it also won't have Peter Cullen, my childhood favorite from Voltron and Prime).

What I Had, and what I Got:
The only Transformers I had were two large Decepticons from thrift stores, G1 Grimlock, Overdrive, Camshaft & Downshift (who survived the typical mother holocaust scenario), and a Classics Mirage and Grimlock. The G1's sit on shelves, the thrift store specials (already broken) were general toys, and the Classic Mirage I'd play with my 2.5yo son from time to time, but never let him hold it without me. The Classic Grimlock stays in it's box.

First I posted here and met some nice folks who gave me advice on where to go to buy some toys on the cheap; the Big Lots idea panned out great.

My son, who loves matchbox cars and toy soldiers, went through several expressions to show how "cool" and "wow" the Knock-Off Transformers I got were. For $25.5 I got 23 Knock-Offs, but only "released" two of them.

Priming for the Generation 1 Cartoon:
I sat my kids down and let my daughters re-watch an episode of Azumanga Daioh, ate dinner (kids are more settled after this), and sat them down for their first G1 Cartoon experience. I brought out one more set of Knock-Off's, an open top jeep and a tank, let my son hold those, and fired up the show.

Now psychologically, my son is Driven; he's the kind of personality that has to be doing something productive or he gets antsy. In the adult world, we know these people as super-annoying bosses and successful athletes. Normally he watches 10-15 minutes of a show, and if he likes what is going on, he then mimics it (Walker: Texas Ranger, etc).

Watching G1 Episodes 1-01 & 1-02:
My son sat through the entire first episode holding a Knock-Off in each hand; my 5yo daughter held one too, my older two girls (7 & 10) were acting like the toys were above them at this point.

I throw on the 2nd episode. Halfway through that was too much for my son, so he started to play. He wanted to SHOOT the Knock-Off my 5yo girl had, so she retailiated. He now understood Transformers; he'd always been trying to use his thrift-store Decepticons as though they didn't have guns. Guns are great for little boys: you can shoot people across the room and they die (we do, anyway; so does he if you "shoot" at him).

Playtime!
My 5yo & 7yo girl all wanted to play as soon as the 2nd show was over, so we all sat down and did that. I explained the made-up names, personalities and sides of the Knock-Offs and we separated into teams of two.

We had the typical scenario: a Good Guy was caught by the Bad Guys in the first battle, so we had to rescue him, so each side took a break: one to plan and the other to interrogate, before we did the next battle; it is amazing how involved children are with their play and it made me remember that I did the same thing as a child, only I had no siblings.

Epilogue:
Later, my 10yo came back and we re-watched the 2nd half of the 2nd show because she'd fallen asleep, while my 5yo and 7yo daughters went to bed. My son watched it and then we (me, 10yo daughter & the boy) played for a bit longer before he had to go to bed - but we couldn't take away the Knock-Off Transformers.

He ended up falling asleep on his mother's shoulder (that's normal) holding his two Transformer KO's (vehicle mode) and using them to prop up the bottle. My lovely Latin lady said when she tried to remove them as he started to close his eyes he'd say "Uhn Uhh!" and pop awake. Very cute.

Oh, and my 10yo had decided that Transformers were fairly fun. Like my son, you can't hand her her mind on things, although she is obedient to any order. My 7yo and 5yo had decided they were great; they don't like toy soldiers but they seemed to relate to fighting robots that turn into cars, planes and other vehicles. Interesting.

Why I'm Not Worried:
I am not a completionist and moderation in all things is something I teach my children, mostly by making them earn every dollar they get, and then watching them find out the hard way how easy it is to ruin all that hard work by spending their money on something stupid. I'll warn them, and then say nothing more on the subject. Apparently I'm prophetic, because my daughters come to a screeching halt if Dad warns them, and start questioning their motives behind their desires.

It's amazing to watch them (10 & 7yo) go back and forth down the toy isles, comparing toys, coming up with a top 3, viewing them all together (even if that means transplanting the toy to another isle), and then deciding on one, because they can't afford all 3.

I won't mind if any of them grow up and forget about Transformers or any of them grow up and continue liking them; I play videogames, my wife makes crafts and uses her sewing machine, we all need hobbies (though some are more productive than others). If the lessons in cost-benefit analysis and moderation stick, they'll be good teenagers and fine adults.

Closing:
I hope you enjoyed your read; if you are parents who have introduced or are introducing Transformers to your children please chime in. I admire the collectors here, but I can't relate. I would love to read from other parents, or even younger (or older) kids who actually read all this and feel compelled to relate your experiences.

Tonight we're going to have another quick pen & paper RPG session based on our Chore Wars characters, and catch another episode of the G1 cartoon.

PS-They don't know it, but I bought a Classics Voyager Optimus Prime, and he's sitting in his box for the day my kids have seen enough of G1 to like Prime, and then I'll surprise them. Until then, the Knock-Offs will come out in slow succession.

Great post, and it's great that you're teaching your children to actually play with their toys and have fun rather than treating them like collectibles. I gave my daughter serveral of my once displayed RID Transformers and let her play with them. I was much cooler to see her zoom them around and try to transform them than to collect dust on my bookcase.

She's 8yo and doesn't really like the cartoon but the new movie is one of her favorites. I think when I finally find the '08 Bumblebee it'll end up in her hands and not mine.

Play & Enjoy:
It's like I was telling my brother (my wife's brother, but he and I pal around so much we might as well be) "When these new figures get old, I'll retire them just like I did those (pointing at my few surviving G1's)."

Most Folks have a Horror Story:
Man I wish my mother had been honest with me and not given away my stuff. By the time I had a house and asked for it all back and said "Where's my two Jetfires?" it was long over. I gave her explicit instructions. The others she made me give up when I was 13 when we lost the ranch; she said we didn't have room to pack everything. Maybe true, probably just easier - come to find out, as good as I kept my Optimus Prime he'd be worth around $300 today, not that I'd sell him.

Mr. Chitty, down the dirt road, always said "Three moves equals a fire." He meant a house fire.

More on Play:
You will note that the Transformers, even the Knock-Offs, only get play time when me or my lovely Latina are there. Some toys we don't care about, but some toys make economic sense to be sensible with; they still get use.

With girls, it's easier; the girls lose parts but mine rarely brake anything. Once they hit 6 years-old and have to earn their money and only get toys when they buy it, have a birthday or do something so good we must get them a reward (such as when my 10yo daughter confronted a 13yo boy and his four friends, and kicked him to the ground, for picking on a 6yo girl that wasn't even her sister, she got a $50 reward)... they learn to be careful by themselves. Usually.

My oldest is naturally careful, but forgetful, like me. She'll misplace things, but never break them or lose them entirely ("I know I put it in a safe place..."). My 7yo daughter just isn't careful. She's had her GBA and a portable CD player claimed from her because she doesn't care for them. That doesn't stop her from getting to play with toys, that just means if she wants a Transformer, guess what... "Okay, sweetie. Go ahead and buy one. I'll pay tax, but that's it."

Of course, the 10yo hears the same thing.

The 5yo girl and the 2yo baby boy aren't old enough to earn money yet

Very interesting posts. My first daughter is due to be born in September and I can't wait till she is old enough for me to introduce her to my childhood favourite program.

I know this is a little off topic but I dont think children bond as much with a certain series anymore, there is so much choice and so many channels to choose from that its easy to skip from program to program without ever getting a deep interest and liking for one in particular. I'm 25, but when I was younger the choice was a bit more limited but I think the quality was there. Just my opinion anyways. Like I say I'll be introducing Chelsea Jennifer to The Transformers and copying my original DVD's for her to watch, you never know, she might just like them as much as I did.

Paralyzed by Choices:
Poetic, I agree; it was a limitation of choice as well as a limitation of perceived choices. I hope you don't mind me continuing the digression because I think what you said bears merit.

I watched a 30 minute-long YouTube video featuring intros of every 80's cartoon the author could find (including some different versions for the same cartoon series, such as Transformers and Beetleguise), and I saw a lot I never knew existed because:

• I didn't have the channel or
• There was no Interwebs to teach me I should even look for it

Looking back we had a fair number of choices we just weren't paralyzed by choices.

That last link is the best I've found in about two months; it deals with how the human brain handles varying numbers of choices.

At any rate, we had a limitation of choices by the nature of the technology of the time, both in the number of channels and our ability to know of their existence.

My kids don't get much TV so they are particularly susceptible to what I throw at them (Mu WAH HAH HAH!). Channels they can watch without supervision (Animal Planet during certain hours we know surgeries aren't displayed, Discovery, etc.) I have noticed they, just like you said, seem to have no real favorites.

Further Adventures:
The baby boy fell asleep early last night! All of my daughters wanted to watch an episode, but not all at the same time; first it was the younger two, but they had to get to bed, later it was my 10yo(!) but no one else was around.

Having seen the 30-minute YouTube video on 80's Cartoon Intros, my 10yo daughter said the Transformers intro was her favorite. I asked why, and she said "Because it doesn't make me not want to see the show just by watching the intro."

*cackles*

I love your posts, David. Reading your writing is a treat. Seriously. I love just HOW insightful you are.

As for the "favorites" topic, I have to disagree with you a little bit. Granted, this is just my own experience, and since you have a 10 year old as well as 3 other kids, you definately have more experience than I do, but I do think what I am about to say has merit and is worth thinking about.

I have a little girl that will be 4 soon. But she *definately* has favorites. And I attribute that to me being a picky father and only allowing her to watch a few shows. When she turned 2 I started letting her watch Sesame Street and VeggieTales, and she quickly fell in love with Elmo and Bob and Larry. She was then exposed to Dora the Explorer, and its been one of her favorites ever since. Then we discovered Backyardigans, and we were hooked.

By now, she likes the Disney and Barbie "princess" movies, other Disney movies, Little Einstiens, Bob the Builder, and she's even grown very attached to Happily N`ever After, seeing how its a mainly a "retelling" of sorts of Cinderella's story.

But she always comes back to 1) Backyardigans, 2) Dora, and 3) VeggieTales. Those are her three favorites.

And I know, when I list them all out, it may not seem like I'm very picky, but considering the *amount* of cartoons and other shows that either target kids specifically or are at least kid friendly, my little list pales in comparison. Its a lot easier to get one stand-alone movie like Sleeping Beauty or Cinderella, than to follow a show and end up with eight Dora DVDs.

As for Transformers, I actually don't have anything TF related to watch. I grew up with G1, and I did love the show when I was a kid, but while I love my toys (no horror story here, still have my whole G1 collection), I'm not nostalgic about the show, so I've never had any desire to own any episodes, or the movie. And Armada / Energon / Cybertron are crap. I watched the first episode of Armada and I wanted to shoot myself. Energon was a little better, but I didn't catch episodes of it until it was almost over, so I could actually stand to watch whole episodes. Then Cybertron came along and overall it was better than Energon, but I actually probably watched fewer episodes of Cybertron than I did Energon, because the dialog was so bad. Someone would say something idiotic, and I'd just have to turn the show off right then. It was almost like I was getting *dumber* just watching it. So needless-to-say there will be no A/E/C in my house. :p (The toys are a different story; the toys, like the shows, got better with each show, and I have a small collection of Cyb figures, as well as some Energon figures that I regret not getting.)

And then, recently, I found Beast Wars and Beast Machines online. Wow! Those are good shows. I liked them both. Both shows have their flaws (and Beast Machines has more flaws than BW), but overall I like the writing, the stories, and the dialog for both BW & Beast Machines. And, overall, I do NOT LIKE beast alt modes, so even though I like the shows, I'm not in the least bit tempted to buy the toys.

However, these two shows, especially Beast Machines, ARE more adult, and therefore I wouldn't share them with my 4 year old. I do want to own BW on DVD one day, though.

BUT, this new show, TF Animated, looks to be a show I can share with my little girl! I just realized...I'll probably buy *3* copies of, at the very least, the deluxe sized Autobots! 1 for me to display, 1 to stay unopened, and 1 for us to play with. Man, this new toy line is gonna be expensive!

Well, anyway, I've rambled on enough.
Thanks for joining Seibertron!

Ahh, yes. I do not mean to say my children do not have favorites; actually, you found the flaw in what I said, albeit the long-way 'round as I tend to do

New Executive Summary:
While too many choices at the same time can paralyze a person, that does not preclude them from making a choice, nor having a favorite.

Case in Point:
While Google has turned user behavior on the Web from "information mining" (remember the bad old days when search engines sucked and if you found a good site you'd mine it for all the information it had that you needed?) to "information foraging" (now we hit only a few pages of a Website before doing another search for another piece of information), that hasn't stopped us from having favorite Websites.

Fin:
So, yes, you are correct: your daughter, and mine, still pick many favorites. Blues Clues is a favorite among my youngest ones; A Spanish soap-opera (they are all 3-6 month miniseries) based on Zorro was my firstborn's until "it turned stupid."

I'm picky like yourself: my last favorites include "Firefly," "Deadwood," (until the end of the 3rd season and it "turned stupid") and... "Star Trek: TNG."


Transformers G1: Continued
We missed Wednesday as my son went to sleep early, but we caught Season 1's 3rd show (the end to the 3 part pilot).

The best thing is that all of my daughters seem to have something they can enjoy together with their brother aside from the many usual games of make believe, run-from-the-monsters, sword fighting, wrestling and "bring down Papa!"

You can see this morning's play session, with pictures, on my blog.

" 'Formers!" is a new word for my baby boy. He's figured out they aren't "Robots," which is what I first tried to tell him as words beyond two syllables can be difficult.

Knock-Offs:
The children don't seem to care about KO's versus real Transformers yet; however, I only have Classics Mirage so they seem to regard him as "Dad's". I can see one exception is my 10yo. She prefers Mirage and the Armada Megatron and Cyberton SkyShadow (I get that right?) for their complexity and articulation.

The documentation on Knock-Offs on teh Interwebs is virtually non-existent. I had a real hard time figuring out how to transform two KO's without breaking them: it turned out one's plastic clips were too long and, ergo, didn't want to unclip (small flathead screwdriver fixed that), and the other was latched together in such a way that the only way to unlatch it was to simply apply enough force; however, without directions, I spent 15 minutes figuring that out because I kept thinking there must be something to unlock it. I am referring to the "Ultra-Bots: Space Warriors", specifically the white jet/plane and the green drilling tank.

Sweet Child:
My 10yo daughter offered to buy me the Classics Voyager-class Optimus Prime. She said "Octopus" at first, which kept us both laughing for about 5 minutes, because she's seen the 2007 movie and knows the name, it just came out wrong.

I'm going to make sure she spends her money on something for her, but I haven't told her that yet. Father's day wasn't so long ago and she chipped in $100 to help her mother buy me a used 32" TV.

Updates as they come.

Brilliant Thread! Bookmarked it!

My wife's expecting so I'm looking forward to introducing my future son to TFs and due to order Softimus Prime in anticipation.

I was planning on picking up several cheaper/less collectable/Knock off TFs for my son to play with as "His" whereas my few Classics and the like would remain "mine" and he can play with them when supervised.

I figured out who all the Knock-Offs are KO's of thanks to two very helpful guys: tigertracks 24 & JelZe GoldRabbit.

TRANSFORMER BASE UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
My brother and I took the 2nd largest doll house and converted it for use as a home-base. My brother's been in the Mexican military (actually the Pentathlon) so he painted it in a military style, which my son will undoubtedly love.

Here it is, exterior:

and interior:


We got the doll house at the Salvation Army for $5. We have a larger one than that that's still a doll house, and a smaller one, which also gets used as an opposing Transformer base alone with nearby furniture from time to time.

OPTIMUS PRIME COMES TO A NEW GENERATION:
Optimus Prime was my favorite Transformer; bar none. Soundwave & Grimlock came next, but Prime was my guy. I used him so much his arms wore out so I had him command from Teletran 1 on my play shelf. So when I realized that my 10yo daughter, of all people, really, really liked Prime, I gave the figure I'd stashed away for me to her, and seeing her reaction was bittersweet...

My 10yo daughter, Maria de Guadalupe, didn't know that I had bought the figure; she offered three times to buy me one thinking I didn't have it (she said she was once, and then kept reminding me that she was as soon as we went to the store), and then enumerated to me why she thought (based on seeing the original 1st Generation 1984 cartoon) Optimus Prime was her favorite:

"He's a good leader, he's not so full of ego like Megatron that he gets things wrong all the time. He's always concerned about the other Autobots. He's brave."

Her words, near as I can recall them; I revealed to her that I had already acquired Optimus Prime and had him in hiding, and instead of giving him to me (my original plan), I gave him to her.

He's what I used to make my new avatar.

Oh, and here are the kids playing on a weekday using the newly painted doll house:


Even my 10yo girl enjoys this:

which is obvious because now she owns Prime, and, as she said just now, "I... think... he's so COOL!"

Well the fort was well received, read all about it and see pictures if you like. My oldest daughter ordered the 2007 Movie edition of Jazz, and I ordered the Classics Jetfire / Skyfire.

We just saw the episode that featured Jetfire, which I never liked as a boy or today because it's rather contrived, Jetfire looks far less cool than the original G1 toy and Jetfire's end was lame. I'm hoping the Classics figure, which I originally disliked because it looks far less cool than the original G1 toy, doesn't disappoint.

Always Ask "Why?"
I have asked my lovely lady why our daughters enjoy Transformers when they don't enjoy toy soldiers, and she wasn't sure.

Behaviorally, they all seem to "click" with Transformers. Good guys, bad guys, who are cars, planes and other vehicles. Robots who shoot, fly and talk. They seem to appreciate the feeling of "doing it" when they learn a transformation, and enjoy repeating the process, once learned, many times during play.

However, I can't enumerate why the girls enjoy Transformers and not toy soldiers. Is it the slight abstraction of giant robots? If the human brain feels pleasure in having power, in doing something, accomplishing something (even if it's tipping something over, for babies), then some part of these toys certainly speaks to them in this aspect.

I'll think on it a bit more, but mostly I'm glad everyone is having fun.

For those of you interested, there's a Big, bad, Role-Play session post in the Fan-Fiction forum.

Awesome thread!

OK, this is my first post. I have lurked for awhile now and finally made an account about a week ago. I have thought about posting, but I get the first post jitters. This thread has changed that.

As of yesterday, I now have a beautiful daughter. I have thought long and hard about how to introduce her to my passions, realizing the whole time that she just might not like them. Your post gives me hope! I have G1 on DVD, and I have plenty of toys. I'm not a collector, per se, as I have some very expensive Transformers, but I have opened all of them. I bought them to enjoy, not collect dust. That being said, however, I like the idea of the KOs. I said I don't want them collecting dust, but that doesn't mean that I want them broke!

Now I just have to wait until she can play with them and actually watch the show with me. I have already started decorating her room with some paintings I've done. Some Disney and other, well, here's some pictures:






Again, awesome post and thanks for the tips!

-Brandon[/img]

You Put Things Into Perspective:
Your post made me realize I should keep up these posts (I was thinking of stopping) and that, while for only a select few, they really do matter.

And wow, you are a far better artist than I am.

I don't know anything about your lovely little girl, other than you probably love her a lot as I do mine, but I can offer some general thoughts on how different kids can be about certain behaviors, namely how careful they are with things.

Children + Transformers:
"Every child is different," as I have learned having four (my Latin wife has 10 siblings, 6 boys and 5 girls total, and her mother always chanted that mantra at us until we realized she was right), but that doesn't mean they aren't wonderful.

• Maria is my 10yo Tiger. Call her "pimple face" and she'll punch me, hard. Lick her on the side of the face instead of giving her a sweet kiss and she instinctively slapped me and started apologizing (she did it without thinking; I was surprised, but rewarded her "No, sweetie, that's just what you should do"). She is also meticulous and careful, despite having ADD and a poor memory.
• Dulce is my 7yo Princess. Scared of everything, pensive, she's also analytical and the most intellectual; she reads as well as her 10yo sister and remembers anything she wants to. She has also had her Gameboy Advance, a portable CD player and a cheapo digital camera taken away from her because she doesn't take care of them.
• Alejandrita (Alayhondrita phonetically) is my 5yo extrovert; she's the instigator of play. She's too young to tell how she'll care for things.
• Jose Francisco, the Strong, as his older sisters call him, is a very Latin baby boy - he has the Latin Mashismo. He seeks challenges, he's driven; he's also having to learn the idea that toys aren't always something you can smash into other toys. He's getting the idea quickly; we just won't know if it'll take, like it did with Maria when she broke a favorite doll or three, or if he'll never get it, like Dulce.

The solution is simple: Dulce gets KO's, no matter her age. My 10yo, having bought Jazz online, told me that she never wants Dulce playing with her Transformers; She'll let Dulce use her dolls when she's around, but seeing one KO already fall victim to its own Chinese manufacturing and Jose Francisco (little arm, super-glued, no biggie considering how many we have and how fast Jose has learned), she's decided that her Optimus Prime and Jazz can't be risked: unlike dolls you can't fix their hair or pop their arms back on.

My Point is This: Transformers seem to click with girls and I still haven't figured out why, but they hate army men and love these toys. Likelyhood is if you enjoy playing with your daughter, she will enjoy playing with you. Children love things they can figure out and move and stand easily; vehicles, at least, always stand easily, and most roll (some KO's have stuck wheels).

So the thing to watch out for is you can't be sure if your lovely baby girl will be careful or not, but either way (thanks to Knock-Offs) you'll be able to have fun with her. Genetics does play a role, so if you're the only careful person in your family on both sides (as I am), your chances are slimmer. It's strange how that works out, but true.

PS:Since you are an artist, you might enjoy projects like this paper building city, or repurposing a thrift-store doll house.