The Energon Pub

[Burn]

Here's the thing, the majority of those people who are in favour of her?

Never saw the original series and don't know any better about how great DW use to be.

[MagnusPrimal]

Here's the thing, the majority of those people who are in favour of her?

Never saw the original series and don't know any better about how great DW use to be.

I'm not sure if you're trying to be insulting or not, but you're doing a good job.
Basically, those of us that like River do so because we don't know any better?
My classic DW dvd collection is growing almost daily, plus I've watched some online, and I'm dipping my toe into the audios. I agree that classic Who was better, but I still like River Song. I consider myself intelligent enough to make that decision, and I suspect many others are as well.

[Burn]

Basically, those of us that like River do so because we don't know any better?

Frankly ... yes.

And it's got nothing at all to do with intelligence. It's a simple case of a lot of people not having the "complete story".

If they'd seen some more of the classic series, they'd realise how crap and repetitive the new version has gotten.

Because seriously, every year ... the Daleks ... or the Cybermen ... and now every year it's going to be River bloody Song.

The Weeping Angels were voted as the scariest monsters, they were new, they were original, let's see more of that, let's see more of the old show that lead the way in the sci-fi genre and left other shows *cough*startrek*cough* to play catch up copycats.

[Darth Bombshell]

Actually, there's just a vocal few here that seem to dislike her.

To be fair, I used to find her, at best, mildly irritating to start off with. If all we knew about the character was what we saw in "Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead", "The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone" and "The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang", I wouldn't be harping on her as much. But then, in short order, Moffat...

1). Revealed her backstory, the quickest way to douse the flame of an interesting character.

2). Made said backstory the oldest of old cliches in the history of the written word.

3). Spent a good chunk of last series' running plot revolving around her.

I've never even seen "The Wedding of River Song." The title alone is enough to convince me it's crap.

[MagnusPrimal]

Burn, you're wrong. I "know better," and I still like River. The rest of your post I mostly agree with though.
And I'm not saying I like all of River's story, or every episode she's in. I like the character, and I think her portrayal by Alex Kingston has a lot to do with that. She's fun. And to mainly to the out-of-chronological-order in which a lot of their meetings occur, I like seeing a character know something the Doctor doesn't.
I do disagree with Moffat that the Doctor should not be the focus of the series though.

[Burn]

Burn, you're wrong.

No i'm not.

I said a lot of people, I never said you.

[MagnusPrimal]

Burn, you're wrong.

No i'm not.

I said a lot of people, I never said you.

I'm still not sure how you can make a generalized statement like that and still expect it to be right most of the time. Do you have anything to back it up, other than the fact that you like classic DW and you don't like River Song?

[Burn]

I've been around the DW fandom for a while to see how things have changed in the last five years.

Can I cite any specific source? No. Because there's an entire internet out there full of DW forums from which to pick and choose some new-Who fanboy/girl comment about how awesome such and such character is, or how scary such and such monster of the week is, when you can have companions and guest characters and one story villains from thirty years ago that were much better fleshed out and didn't need to be trotted out every year. But do they know about them? No. Because while they may know there's the old series of DW, a lot have probably never made the effort to watch it.

You have. So stop taking it personally. I don't like River Song. Deal with it.

[MagnusPrimal]

I'm not taking it personally. Even if it's directed at me it doesn't matter. You still can't make a broad, sweeping statement like that and expect someone to take it seriously. It's like someone in the TF Forums telling someone the only reason they like movie Optimus is because they don't know any better. People around here would dogpile on that poster, because that's entirely subjective. Just like your, or my, opinion of River Song.
Deal with it.

[Burn]

Do I strike you as someone who gives a toss?

I can make any statement I want. Just like you can make any statement I want. Hooray for the internet and "freedom of speech"!

[MagnusPrimal]

Do I strike you as someone who gives a toss?

I can make any statement I want. Just like you can make any statement I want. Hooray for the internet and "freedom of speech"!

If you "didn't give a toss" we wouldn't be having this... discussion. So yeah, you do.
And you can certainly make any statement you want. That doesn't make it an accurate statement, but you can make it.

[Burn]

I find it funny how you keep prolonging the argument in a vain attempt to make me admit i'm wrong.

Which ain't gonna happen, so you might just wanna give up now.

[MagnusPrimal]

I find it funny how you keep prolonging the argument in a vain attempt to make me admit i'm wrong.

Wrong again!
At this point, I don't think you'd concede if Tom Baker agreed with me.

[Godzillabot Primal]

I find it funny how you keep prolonging the argument in a vain attempt to make me admit i'm wrong.

Wrong again!
At this point, I don't think you'd concede if Tom Baker agreed with me.

I agree with MagnusPrimal. Would you care for a jelly baby?

[MagnusPrimal]

Ok, to get back down to it...
I just finished watching Series 5 again. Now, is it just me, or in The Big Bang, is the whole escape from the Pandorica scenario just a big paradox? The Doctor gets out when Rory frees him with the sonic screwdriver, but the Doctor can't give him the screwdriver until he's out of the Pandorica. Am I missing something?

[waaaaghlord]

You're forgetting that it's a Moffet script. The wibbly wobbly timey whimey rule applies. same thing at the end of the ep. Amy only remembers the Doctor after River shows up at the wedding and she shouldn't have existed in that time line if there was no Doctor. The whole things a bit of a mess.

[MagnusPrimal]

I was just mentally glossing over the whole "The Doctor never existed" idea. That just screws things up monumentally. I thought of River as an anomaly, since she was at the eye of the storm, so to speak.
It's a fun episode to watch, which I credit the cast for, but it falls apart when you think about it too much.
Also, was it ever stated why the Tardis exploding would destroy the universe? Surely one would have exploded/been destroyed during the Time War. Why would this instance be different?

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

My own internal canon is it's because the TARDIS is so rewired and in desperate need of maintenance and unstable.

[Burn]

Moffat shoots down any return of The Rani

'cause no one will know who she is? Well that's a slap in the face to "old" fans.

Also, who are the Silurians again? Oh yeah ... those little wee beasties that only appeared in two classic Dr Who stories ... but people remember them?

And if you haven't heard, the next season starts next weekend. Unless you're Australian.

[BeastProwl]

Question, for those who know. Is the Doctor Who that's on Netflix the whole series, or just newer or older stuff?

[SW's SilverHammer]

Question, for those who know. Is the Doctor Who that's on Netflix the whole series, or just newer or older stuff?

On Netflix, there is The 2005 to present series available for streaming (it should have the Tardis on the cover). However they also have serials from the "classic series", such as the Ark in space or Pyramids of Mars, on there as well.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Moffat shoots down any return of The Rani

'cause no one will know who she is? Well that's a slap in the face to "old" fans.

Also, who are the Silurians again? Oh yeah ... those little wee beasties that only appeared in two classic Dr Who stories ... but people remember them?

And if you haven't heard, the next season starts next weekend. Unless you're Australian.

Well, screw him! That's a load of horse**** there. Why bring back any old-school stuff, then?

[Godzillabot Primal]

*Twitch* ...HOW WAS IT???!!!

[Burn]

*Twitch* ...HOW WAS IT???!!!

How was what?

[njb902]

so my wife just updated her dads old vhs tapes of doctor who onto blue ray....
..it took frigging forever.....like weeks. how long has this show been on?