The Energon Pub

[Ultra Markus]

what do nazies have to do with transformers

[Sabrblade]

I am disgusted to see this happen to Churchill's estate because both of my grandfathers (both now passed) were directly involved in World War II.

My father's father was a private first-class whose battalion partook in both D-Day at Normandy (serving under General Eisenhower) and the Battle of the Bulge (serving under General Patton). He was stationed in Great Britain at the time.

My mother's father was a captain on General Eisenhower's staff (whom he directly reported to) in charge of the logistics for the planning of Operation: Overlord. He was based at the Southern Base Section headquarters in Salisbury, England.

Though both of my grandfathers may not have known Churchill personally (though, there is a distinct possibility that my mother's father may have gotten to meet Churchill, what with him having been on Eisenhower's staff at the time, as I said), all three men were still united by a common goal, serving to fight against a common enemy and evil, for God and country, for the freedom of all.

I hold a great respect for both of my grandfathers, even though I only knew one of them personally (my mother's father passed away about a year and a half before I was born). They both served in and survived the war that Churchill likewise partook in defeating the Nazis. So to see his estate repurposed as the headquarters of the enemy that both of my grandfathers stood against, complete with giant banners clad in the insignia of said enemy, is very disgraceful for me to see happen, and registers to me as (regardless of intention or lack thereof) a great disrespect to the many men and women who served in the war, and to their families, loved ones, and descendants who honor the memory of those men and women.

This has not ruined the movie for me, granted. I still plan to go see it, as I wish to still support the brand I've come to enjoy as a whole. But this minor (in the grand scheme of things) debacle has certainly placed a mark of shame on the movie for me. That this decision was made by anyone at all, regardless of whom was responsible (Bay or otherwise), is perplexing at least and maddening at most. If it was made out of ignorance, then that's just dumbfounding. It if was a deliberate choice, then there better be a good reason behind it cuz without the proper context it just sounds audacious.

As of now, we don't know what went into making this decision or what the scene being filmed at this location will involve, or if there's even any significance to having the Nazi HQ being filmed at Churchill's estate at all. So I'm willing to wait and see what the context of this scene in the movie will be. But as of now, I don't like what I see at all.

[JazZeke]

Bay responds to criticism.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he's just trying to see how much crap he can get away with before Hasbro and/or Paramount cans him. He just looks so douchey in this video.

[It Is Him]

Surely Michael Bay will use this imagery without devaluing those who lost their lives as a result of this fascist ideology.

[It Is Him]

I just wanna add; between Bumblebee pissing, Devastator's balls and now this, Bay has a knack for making me feel embarrassed to be a Transformers fan.

Don't forget Mudflap's "I never learned to read"

[Noideaforaname]

I agree, it does seem to be leaning a little towards being in bad taste, but maybe it's being used for one of those time-travel-changed-the-future shock scenes where the bad future is summarized succinctly in a scene with a caption -this would certainly fulfill that role

Yeah, I'm thinking that too. There's a lot of iffy stuff in the movies, but the majority of that boils down to how wildly subjective humor and offensiveness are. This particular case is far more clear-cut, so much so it really feels like ticking people off is the entire point.

[Deadput]

Don't forget Mudflap's "I never learned to read"

How is this embarrassing?

What if this was said in G1 by Bumblebee or Sideswipe would anyone react the same?

[Kurona]

Don't forget Mudflap's "I never learned to read"

How is this embarrassing?

What if this was said in G1 by Bumblebee or Sideswipe would anyone react the same?

No, since the G1 cartoon was full of those sorts of lines due to being a kooky, silly little cartoon.

In the movieverse which we're expected to take seriously, Mudflap and Skids are supposed to be advanced alien robots that have been around for many many countless years. So it comes across as a little jarring.

Different context gives different meaning to different words.

[Deadput]

No, since the G1 cartoon was full of those sorts of lines due to being a kooky, silly little cartoon.

In the movieverse which we're expected to take seriously, Mudflap and Skids are supposed to be advanced alien robots that have been around for many many countless years. So it comes across as a little jarring.

Different context gives different meaning to different words.

There were plot reasons for the Autobots not being able to read them Bumblebee could not read it either.


So people are expecting the movies to be like the cartoon except they also expect it to be serious they have to choose one or the other.

[It Is Him]

Don't forget Mudflap's "I never learned to read"

How is this embarrassing?

Delete your account

[Hellscream9999]

Don't forget Mudflap's "I never learned to read"

How is this embarrassing?

Delete your account

Not sure what exactly you mean by this, but I'm gonna stop this right here before it gets out of hand. There's no need for this sort of abrasiveness on discussion boards...

[primalxconvoy]

I think that the palace is near my home in the UK. Anyway, I hope that the scene features Hitler-requested/partially designed VW Beatles, and Bumblebee looks at them in horror.

Then VW will NEVER allow another Tf to use their car designs, ever again...

[Bronzewolf]

Seibertronians, in response to the story we reported on earlier today about how the TF5 filming had chosen Winston Churchill's birthplace to use as a Nazi base, and the controversy it spawned, Micheal Bay has released a statement in a short interview with the BBC.

People haven't been fortunate enough to read the script and they don't know that Churchill in this movie is a big hero

He said.


Another notable quote from the interview, available in full on the BBC Website, is that Bay believes "Churchill would be smiling" at his inclusion in the movie.

This begs the question: was Churchill made a hero just in response to the uproar? Or was he always intended to be in the movie? Tell us what you think in the comments below.

And, as always, stay tuned to Seibertron.com for all the latest and greatest transformers news on the net!

[Samsonator]

This movie gets more ridiculous every time I hear something about it... sadly, that means I'm gonna have to watch it...

[Insurgent]

I just wanna add; between Bumblebee pissing, Devastator's balls and now this, Bay has a knack for making me feel embarrassed to be a Transformers fan.

Don't forget Mudflap's "I never learned to read"

To be fair, I think he was meaning they can't read ancient cybertronian, not read in general.


And anyway, if he can't read in general, what if he has dyslexia?



As for Bay's comment... why not just use another place then and call it Churchill's? We've seen geography in these movies aren't 100% accurate with that plane graveyard behind that air museum. And.... I'm really curious about Churchill's role in this film now.

[Jeddostotle7]

England makes sense, as much of the architecture to the layman is similar to what he's looking for, and production costs were probably cheaper than say...Czech Republic or whatnot (as many formerly oppressed nations would laugh at the idea).also, just about any reference to Nazi's, has been erased from German history, not even taught in schools, and the swastika is illegal. New groups have formed entirely new graphics around their movements as a result.

Not to get involved in this conversation too much, but fun fact: Germany actually hasn't erased anything about Nazi Germany from their history books. In fact, they teach it all very explicitly, especially the Holocaust, to show how bad it was. Link to sources (aka German people), if allowed: https://www.quora.com/How-do-Germans-to ... -Nazi-past

[Stuartmaximus]

why not just use another place then and call it Churchill's?

rsz_8023snn1833b471637a-1.jpg (10.71 KiB) Viewed 7680 times

[Kurona]

That doesn't really help. You don't get to just do something like this and then say "Oh no it's okay because I done this nice thing for him in exchange!!!"
There's absolutely no good reason to specifically use his home for this. None at all.

[Apollo-XL5]

That doesn't really help. You don't get to just do something like this and then say "Oh no it's okay because I done this nice thing for him in exchange!!!"
There's absolutely no good reason to specifically use his home for this. None at all.

People are talking like Michael Bay is just doing what he wants, regardless of what others think. But he 'obviously' had permission from the owners (having told them what he planned to do).

Plus this isn't the first time that someone was making a film and used a famous building for a Nazi scene, causing an uproar from others.

But this film, like others in the past is a a 'work of fiction' and should be treated as such.

Talk about over-reaction.

[Autobot N]

I don't really know how I feel about this. On one hand, I'm not offended since I'm an American and I don't know anyone who was around during WWII. On the other hand, it seems rather distasteful to drape Nazi symbols all over the house of one of their greatest enemies. It's like going to Abraham Lincoln's birth home and putting Confederate symbols everywhere or hanging Straxus posters all over Scrounge's hab-suite.

[Randomhero]

That doesn't really help. You don't get to just do something like this and then say "Oh no it's okay because I done this nice thing for him in exchange!!!"
There's absolutely no good reason to specifically use his home for this. None at all.

People are talking like Michael Bay is just doing what he wants, regardless of what others think. But he 'obviously' had permission from the owners (having told them what he planned to do).

Plus this isn't the first time that someone was making a film and used a famous building for a Nazi scene, causing an uproar from others.

But this film, like others in the past is a a 'work of fiction' and should be treated as such.

Talk about over-reaction.

THANK YOU!!!

exactly what I said yesterday. It's not all Michael bay,, its the producers, the studios, the country, and the owners of the house.

In order to shoot somewhere like that, the script is read multiple times over the span of weeks, has to be approved and there are consultants ON SET to make sure it's done right.


This the not the first move to shoot nazi locations in England. All the nazi scenes and locations like the nazi rally and the castles in indiana jones and the last crusade were all shot in England and at historical locations. That's were a lot of WWII stuff is shot not because it takes place in the U.K. but because it has that feeling(castles, historical looking buildings, etc.

People need to get off the offended train and if you say "I'm not offended, I'm just uncomfortable with this" or "I'm just not okay with this" news flash you just described being offended

[Randomhero]

I don't really know how I feel about this. On one hand, I'm not offended since I'm an American and I don't know anyone who was around during WWII. On the other hand, it seems rather distasteful to drape Nazi symbols all over the house of one of their greatest enemies. It's like going to Abraham Lincoln's birth home and putting Confederate symbols everywhere or hanging Straxus posters all over Scrounge's hab-suite.

Or it'd be like if the original transformers cartoon did something distasteful and had a scene of Megatron shooting the Lincoln memorial and sitting on the chair in a episode about Megatron taking over earth and enslaving the human ra-....oh...oh dear...

[dragons]

People are dumb and sensitive who cares about character past and future it's called movie not true storie movie

[Jeddostotle7]

That doesn't really help. You don't get to just do something like this and then say "Oh no it's okay because I done this nice thing for him in exchange!!!"
There's absolutely no good reason to specifically use his home for this. None at all.

People are talking like Michael Bay is just doing what he wants, regardless of what others think. But he 'obviously' had permission from the owners (having told them what he planned to do).

Plus this isn't the first time that someone was making a film and used a famous building for a Nazi scene, causing an uproar from others.

But this film, like others in the past is a a 'work of fiction' and should be treated as such.

Talk about over-reaction.

THANK YOU!!!

exactly what I said yesterday. It's not all Michael bay,, its the producers, the studios, the country, and the owners of the house.

In order to shoot somewhere like that, the script is read multiple times over the span of weeks, has to be approved and there are consultants ON SET to make sure it's done right.


This the not the first move to shoot nazi locations in England. All the nazi scenes and locations like the nazi rally and the castles in indiana jones and the last crusade were all shot in England and at historical locations. That's were a lot of WWII stuff is shot not because it takes place in the U.K. but because it has that feeling(castles, historical looking buildings, etc.

People need to get off the offended train and if you say "I'm not offended, I'm just uncomfortable with this" or "I'm just not okay with this" news flash you just described being offended

You guys are missing the point of why people are getting mad. It's not that it's just any castle in England; it's that, for some unknown reason, they decided to specifically use Winston Churchill's home, A.K.A. one of the people who fought hardest against Hitler, as the place to turn into a Nazi castle. Not just any place, WINSTONE CHURCHILL's. You gotta be able to agree that that's at least in poor taste, right?

[Randomhero]

That doesn't really help. You don't get to just do something like this and then say "Oh no it's okay because I done this nice thing for him in exchange!!!"
There's absolutely no good reason to specifically use his home for this. None at all.

People are talking like Michael Bay is just doing what he wants, regardless of what others think. But he 'obviously' had permission from the owners (having told them what he planned to do).

Plus this isn't the first time that someone was making a film and used a famous building for a Nazi scene, causing an uproar from others.

But this film, like others in the past is a a 'work of fiction' and should be treated as such.

Talk about over-reaction.

THANK YOU!!!

exactly what I said yesterday. It's not all Michael bay,, its the producers, the studios, the country, and the owners of the house.

In order to shoot somewhere like that, the script is read multiple times over the span of weeks, has to be approved and there are consultants ON SET to make sure it's done right.


This the not the first move to shoot nazi locations in England. All the nazi scenes and locations like the nazi rally and the castles in indiana jones and the last crusade were all shot in England and at historical locations. That's were a lot of WWII stuff is shot not because it takes place in the U.K. but because it has that feeling(castles, historical looking buildings, etc.

People need to get off the offended train and if you say "I'm not offended, I'm just uncomfortable with this" or "I'm just not okay with this" news flash you just described being offended

You guys are missing the point of why people are getting mad. It's not that it's just any castle in England; it's that, for some unknown reason, they decided to specifically use Winston Churchill's home, A.K.A. one of the people who fought hardest against Hitler, as the place to turn into a Nazi castle. Not just any place, WINSTONE CHURCHILL's. You gotta be able to agree that that's at least in poor taste, right?

Michael bay didn't sneak in 200 cast and crew and shoot what they needed before security chased them off the property. They have permission and if the owners and everyone affiliated with shooting there are okay with it than maybe people need to stop complaining.