The Energon Pub

I've been wondering how strong exactly is the man of steel, when compared like this. Vegetto is the strongest character in the Z series by far, but is he strong enough? Is Sups really capable of defeating Vegetto?

Well, it was kinda debated that Goku could in fact defeat Superman. Or was it Superman that won... Anyways, it was a close one.

I have to go with Vegetto. If Goku alone can beat Superman, then Vegetto would mess him up good.

There's no coherant argument that would give manga/Anime goku a win over Superman. Even if Vegeto is 10 times stronger than Goku that's not enough.

Vegetto has got nothing to show he's strong as Superman. A planet mover versus the strongest Z feat which moving a hill (which is also non cannon). Vegetto goes down in speed too. It took Super Buu minutes to fly across the world. Superman can be anywhere on earth in a fraction of a second.

Broly can instantly destroy a galaxy at easily 1% power. Vegetto is billions of time stronger than Broly. Vegetto could destory exsistence itself if he felt like it.

Vegetto is easily one the most powerful characters ever concieved. Vegetto wins effortlessly.

why have you roused me from my slumber, ok again Superman in the golden age sneezed and destroyed a galaxy, He has held a black hole in the palm of his hand, shattered the multiverse with one punch, beaten gods in feats of strength beaten beings who could destroy the universe (Maggedon and Imperiex). Superman has been haxing long before Goku has and is far superior if you look at the facts, though blatant fanboys still wish to continue arguing.

No matter how strong Superman might be he doesn't know how to fight. In all sources I've seen Supies can barely wrestle. He had his first real fight at what 16-30 depending on the sources. Goku and Vegetta have both been training all their lives. And they actually have techniques. Goku can teleport instantly in anywhere in the universe (even heaven or hell). I believe Goku would be at the same level as Supies around SSJ2. At the level of SSJ3, Goku would just overwelm Supies. When merged with Vegeta (the next best thing) Supies is space dust by the time Vegetto stops playing around. But then... Vegeta wouldn't want to do the fusion to beat someone he could beat by himself.


I stopped being a DBZ fanboy about 5 years ago. But I haven't read all the supies comics. Maybe Supies can actually do more than brawl (seen 300?) in the recent comics. I've seen him bounce around alot, throw huge stuff, punch...

The question is: Can a very strong body builder beat a high level martial artist (who is also a body builder btw)?

Evank_Horizon wrote:No matter how strong Superman might be he doesn't know how to fight. In all sources I've seen Supies can barely wrestle. He had his first real fight at what 16-30 depending on the sources. Goku and Vegetta have both been training all their lives. And they actually have techniques. Goku can teleport instantly in anywhere in the universe (even heaven or hell). I believe Goku would be at the same level as Supies around SSJ2. At the level of SSJ3, Goku would just overwelm Supies. When merged with Vegeta (the next best thing) Supies is space dust by the time Vegetto stops playing around. But then... Vegeta wouldn't want to do the fusion to beat someone he could beat by himself.


I stopped being a DBZ fanboy about 5 years ago. But I haven't read all the supies comics. Maybe Supies can actually do more than brawl (seen 300?) in the recent comics. I've seen him bounce around alot, throw huge stuff, punch...

The question is: Can a very strong body builder beat a high level martial artist (who is also a body builder btw)?

And the answer to that question is no. If Bruce Lee got into a fight with Magnus Samuelsson, Bruce Lee would win. It wouldn't be a quick and easy fight but Bruce Lee would soon dominate.

Evank is right. Superman never had a fighting style, he just brawls. Goku has trained in martial arts all his life and so has Vegeta. Goku at SSJ3 really is enough to beat Superman. Vegetto is complete and total overkill.

Superman will beat Vegetto.

super man allllll the way

Thanatos Prime wrote:

Evank_Horizon wrote:No matter how strong Superman might be he doesn't know how to fight. In all sources I've seen Supies can barely wrestle. He had his first real fight at what 16-30 depending on the sources. Goku and Vegetta have both been training all their lives. And they actually have techniques. Goku can teleport instantly in anywhere in the universe (even heaven or hell). I believe Goku would be at the same level as Supies around SSJ2. At the level of SSJ3, Goku would just overwelm Supies. When merged with Vegeta (the next best thing) Supies is space dust by the time Vegetto stops playing around. But then... Vegeta wouldn't want to do the fusion to beat someone he could beat by himself.


I stopped being a DBZ fanboy about 5 years ago. But I haven't read all the supies comics. Maybe Supies can actually do more than brawl (seen 300?) in the recent comics. I've seen him bounce around alot, throw huge stuff, punch...

The question is: Can a very strong body builder beat a high level martial artist (who is also a body builder btw)?

And the answer to that question is no. If Bruce Lee got into a fight with Magnus Samuelsson, Bruce Lee would win. It wouldn't be a quick and easy fight but Bruce Lee would soon dominate.

Evank is right. Superman never had a fighting style, he just brawls. Goku has trained in martial arts all his life and so has Vegeta. Goku at SSJ3 really is enough to beat Superman. Vegetto is complete and total overkill.

Superman trained with Batman, this was best displayed when he lost his powers and went as a vigilante crimefighter, and under Mongul to fight imperiex

you want to see some of supes power her is a thing about how powerful imperiex is
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t431978.html

and here about supes for martial arts you going to have to find it but it's in there
http://72.36.190.122/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=97023

And the answer to that question is no. If Bruce Lee got into a fight with Magnus Samuelsson, Bruce Lee would win. It wouldn't be a quick and easy fight but Bruce Lee would soon dominate.

The difference here is Superman isn't slightly stronger than Goku he's millions of times stronger than Goku. Goku strugles to push a hill in half Superman struggles to push a planet in half. Superman would't feel feel it a dozen Z fighters started punching him.

Even SS4 Goku had touble holding a city block up. Minor heroes like Booster Gold or Wonder Girl are capable of that over at DC.

Evank is right. Superman never had a fighting style, he just brawls. Goku has trained in martial arts all his life and so has Vegeta. Goku at SSJ3 really is enough to beat Superman. Vegetto is complete and total overkill.

Goku was trained in martial arts by his Grampa. None of his others master did. They all focussed on Ki manipulation and weight training. If Goku's so skilled why hasn't he beat anyone by skill alone? If he meets anyone even slightly stronger he gets his ass kicked.

Superman trained with Batman, this was best displayed when he lost his powers and went as a vigilante crimefighter, and under Mongul to fight imperiex

He's also been trained by Wildcat one the greatest boxers in the world, Wonder Woman the worlds greatest melee fighter (By Batman's own addmission) and has spent 1000 years fighting a war in Asgard.

It's also worth noting Superman is really, really smart. Since he regained his powers his intelligence has skyrocketed. It appears he's even overtaken Batman now. He looked at a red solar energy emitting device Batman had been working on for over a year and saw numerous ways to improve its design.

First of all I would like to point out that that Vegetto is not the most powerful DBZ character SS4 Gogeta is, but regardless Super man gets his rear end handed to him. If Vegetto couldn't beat him he would just summon a spirit bomb and crush him.

Superman's indestructible.

...

Golden age, at least. Can it be any clearer? It doesn't matter how powerful you are, ultimately, you'll just get tired throwing him around and collapse. ¬_¬

Having a character that can destroy something as incomprehensibly large as a Galaxy at 1% power is precisely the sort of character that shouldn't exist.

DarkJet wrote:First of all I would like to point out that that Vegetto is not the most powerful DBZ character SS4 Gogeta is, but regardless Super man gets his rear end handed to him. If Vegetto couldn't beat him he would just summon a spirit bomb and crush him.

That's DBGT btw, get your facts straight

First of all I would like to point out that that Vegetto is not the most powerful DBZ character SS4 Gogeta is, but regardless Super man gets his rear end handed to him. If Vegetto couldn't beat him he would just summon a spirit bomb and crush him.

So you've got no argument then. Vegetto's more powerful just because. Also What's Superman doing for the 8 episodes it takes to summon the spirit bomb? Even then the spririt bomb only works on bad people. So no use agaist Superman

Having a character that can destroy something as incomprehensibly large as a Galaxy at 1% power is precisely the sort of character that shouldn't exist.

Yeah but that's just vast exageration on Thanatos Prime's part. A timescale wasn't given for the galaxies distructiomn. It takes years for a galaxy to spin, it span multiple times while it faded away. It's salos mentioned Broly has been destroying planets since he was a child.

It's also worth noting teleported to that galaxy and found ruined but intact planets. It's also worth noting Brolly is non canon so his feats have no bearing on Vegetto.

Matrix. wrote:Superman's indestructible

That's why Doomsday killed him right?

Superman is the biggest, overrated fanwank in all of existence.
The Justice League cartoon version was a lot more believable...

Anyone who could find a piece of Kryptonite could kill him.

He is not the end all and be all. There are other heroes/villians who can match if not beat his power

That's why Doomsday killed him right?

Doomsday killed him when he was much weaker. They've both got exponentially stronger since then.

Superman is the biggest, overrated fanwank in all of existence.

No that'd be Thanos.

Anyone who could find a piece of Kryptonite could kill him.

It's not like Superman has multiple enemies called the Kryptonite man who he beats regularly...

Inferno Prime wrote:

Anyone who could find a piece of Kryptonite could kill him.

It's not like Superman has multiple enemies called the Kryptonite man who he beats regularly...

Now days kryptonite is as common as Mc Donald's restaurants. Even if Goku isn't that smart, Vegeta is. And I'm sure one or two gods know about it and tell him telepathicaly adbout the krytonite.

Inferno Prime wrote:

And the answer to that question is no. If Bruce Lee got into a fight with Magnus Samuelsson, Bruce Lee would win. It wouldn't be a quick and easy fight but Bruce Lee would soon dominate.

The difference here is Superman isn't slightly stronger than Goku he's millions of times stronger than Goku. Goku strugles to push a hill in half Superman struggles to push a planet in half. Superman would't feel feel it a dozen Z fighters started punching him.

Even SS4 Goku had touble holding a city block up. Minor heroes like Booster Gold or Wonder Girl are capable of that over at DC.

1st GT isn't cannon. 2nd at the beginning of GT everybody got downgraded to pre-Z level.

Inferno Prime wrote:

Evank is right. Superman never had a fighting style, he just brawls. Goku has trained in martial arts all his life and so has Vegeta. Goku at SSJ3 really is enough to beat Superman. Vegetto is complete and total overkill.

Goku was trained in martial arts by his Grampa. None of his others master did. They all focussed on Ki manipulation and weight training. If Goku's so skilled why hasn't he beat anyone by skill alone? If he meets anyone even slightly stronger he gets his ass kicked.

He was also trained by several gods by the way. They all trained him both mentaly and physicaly. Kami sama too trained him phisicaly. I highly doubbt supies eye laser ever got as powerful as a one of SSj3 Goku's low level kamehameha.

DarkJet wrote:First of all I would like to point out that that Vegetto is not the most powerful DBZ character SS4 Gogeta is, but regardless Super man gets his rear end handed to him. If Vegetto couldn't beat him he would just summon a spirit bomb and crush him.

They are basically the same character anyway. But since Gogeta had to fight the combination of all past vilains in existance I guess he had a better chance to show his power. But since DBGT isn't DBZ (and isn't cannon) you can't say SS4 is the strongest DBZ character.

Matrix. wrote:Superman's indestructible.

...

Golden age, at least. Can it be any clearer? It doesn't matter how powerful you are, ultimately, you'll just get tired throwing him around and collapse. ¬_¬

That's true untill proved otherwise. I'm pretty sure Vegetto can do it. Gohan and Goku destroyed god-made artifacts that were said to be indestrutible. And they did it by accident because they were just too strong.

Matrix. wrote:Having a character that can destroy something as incomprehensibly large as a Galaxy at 1% power is precisely the sort of character that shouldn't exist.

So should Superman exist if he can beat Vegetto?

Inferno Prime wrote:

That's why Doomsday killed him right?

Doomsday killed him when he was much weaker. They've both got exponentially stronger since then.

Goku gets at least two times stronger every year.

He was also trained by several gods by the way. They all trained him both mentaly and physicaly. Kami sama too trained him phisicaly. I highly doubbt supies eye laser ever got as powerful as a one of SSj3 Goku's low level kamehameha.

You mean the heat vision that's hotter than the sun? The heat vision that can hurt Galaxy destroyers? Yeah sounds pretty weak.

Now days kryptonite is as common as Mc Donald's restaurants. Even if Goku isn't that smart, Vegeta is. And I'm sure one or two gods know about it and tell him telepathicaly adbout the krytonite.

So Vegetto can only win with help? Two things Vegeta's sayain pride would never let him do it. Kryptonite doesn't work so well on Superman anymore.

It's also not that common as Batman has been unable to find any more since his ring was destroyed almost two years ago. Lex luthor appears to possess the majority of it.

That's true untill proved otherwise. I'm pretty sure Vegetto can do it. Gohan and Goku destroyed god-made artifacts that were said to be indestrutible. And they did it by accident because they were just too strong.

You have to prove Vegetto can exceed Supermans durability. A heavily weakened Superman (after being hit by multiple planet destroying blasts of red solar energy) took an explosion equal to 50 supernovas. Find a canon example of a bigger explosion in the manga.

Inferno Prime wrote:

He was also trained by several gods by the way. They all trained him both mentaly and physicaly. Kami sama too trained him phisicaly. I highly doubbt supies eye laser ever got as powerful as a one of SSj3 Goku's low level kamehameha.

You mean the heat vision that's hotter than the sun? The heat vision that can hurt Galaxy destroyers? Yeah sounds pretty weak.

I must say I have never seen it at full strenght. But in all sources I have seen, the heat of the target seemed to raise rather slowly. Kamehameha usualy annihilate all in it's path. The size of the blast is also a factor both to hit and to transfer energy to the target. The power of the Kamehameha has never realy been quantified in DBZ.

Inferno Prime wrote:

Now days kryptonite is as common as Mc Donald's restaurants. Even if Goku isn't that smart, Vegeta is. And I'm sure one or two gods know about it and tell him telepathicaly adbout the krytonite.

So Vegetto can only win with help? Two things Vegeta's sayain pride would never let him do it. Kryptonite doesn't work so well on Superman anymore.

Again it depends on the source. Every Movie and TV series (especialy smallville) People would stumble upon it if not watching where they are walking. And remember Goku is not limited to finding it on earth.

Inferno Prime wrote:It's also not that common as Batman has been unable to find any more since his ring was destroyed almost two years ago. Lex luthor appears to possess the majority of it.

In the animated series Batman and the joker had some. Of course with Superman it's easy to take parts of each cannon to make him seem invincible. But remember it's as easy to do the opposite. DBZ has only one and a half official cannon. (manga and anime series)

Inferno Prime wrote:

That's true untill proved otherwise. I'm pretty sure Vegetto can do it. Gohan and Goku destroyed god-made artifacts that were said to be indestrutible. And they did it by accident because they were just too strong.

You have to prove Vegetto can exceed Supermans durability. A heavily weakened Superman (after being hit by multiple planet destroying blasts of red solar energy) took an explosion equal to 50 supernovas. Find a canon example of a bigger explosion in the manga.

The strenght of attacks has never been quantified in such a way in DBZ. Well with the help of a little Krytonite would probably help cutting through him. But then again Goku has broken unbreakable things before.

This is still going on?

Here's my answer:

The guy with the most fanwankest writer wins.

This just isn't working out.

Vegetto is invincible
Superman is invincible

Nuff said.

Superman vers anybody debates are always pointless.First you have to figure witch Superman your talking about.The fact of the matter is that Superman definatley has the power levels to defeet most anybody......he just doesnt have the will or the BALL's to do what he needs to to win.Its not in his personality make up.Thats why even Batman could beat him.

Er...Batman has a horrible record against Superman in canon comic books. He even lost with the power of blackrock which puts normal humans to Supermans level.

Inferno Prime wrote:Er...Batman has a horrible record against Superman in canon comic books. He even lost with the power of blackrock which puts normal humans to Supermans level.

That depends on your deffinition of the word "canon".I did not read the book but its my understanding that the power of the Blackrock makes one mentally unstable....much like Superman was when he almost killed Bats durring one of the crissis books.Look I'm not sayinf that Superman doesnt have the power to beat him he just doesnt have the b@ll$ to do it.Not the way there writting his character these days.