The Energon Pub

Rodimus Prime wrote:So what are the odds of Cable and Bishop appearing in Age of Apocalypse?

Well, the director of Deadpool has been hinting at Cable in a Deadpool sequal. Not sure how to take that for a chance in Age of Apocalypse.

Fox might have to look at their contracts carefully - putting Colossus in the Deadpool Movie is risky they might not actually have the rights to mix them like that... But so far they have got away with it and I guess they can pretend Deadpool is a Mutant even though that contradicts his origin in the Movie.

That said I think they are more likely to get away with it than they would by trying to put the FF and X-Men in the same Movie - I think we might be in a legal grey area though - marvel might only get involved if they actually put the name on the Movie saying X Vs Y as the title when the characters named are covered by different deals.

If they have crossover rights or not is at this point uncertain in all areas - but they seem to think they do or they wouldn't have put Colossus & other Mutants in the Deadpool Movie.

RAR wrote:Fox might have to look at their contracts carefully - putting Colossus in the Deadpool Movie is risky they might not actually have the rights to mix them like that...

Yes they do. Deadpool is officially an X-Men spin-off movie.

RAR wrote:But so far they have got away with it and I guess they can pretend Deadpool is a Mutant even though that contradicts his origin in the Movie.

Or he'll be a Mutate like in the comics. Aside from which, the Reset Button got mashed pretty hard at the end of DOFP if you'll recall, probably just so they could pretend X-Men Origins never happened.

But Deadpool has already been in a movie with Wooverine, Sabertooth, Col. Stryker, Cyclops, Emma Frost, AND Prof. X. So it's not a crossover so much as a movie centered on a character they've already used.

The distinction might be that a Character from a related Franchise that the Movie studio also has the rights to can appeal in a Movie - Like Deadpool with sown up mouth. So I guess Collossus is excusable that way too.

The legal are of contention as I had been lead to understand it is there is some dispute as to if they have the rights to straight up use a Character from different Franchise entirely that isn't one who is associated with that Franchise.

Like putting Doctor Doom in an X-men Movie might get them sued by Marvel Studios, or at least have them object to the idea.

Also if they wanted to make a Movie called X-Men Vs the Fantastic Four (with both names in the title - it's my understanding that isn't covered by the rights as they stand so Fox does not actually have the legal rights to do that - they have to ask permission or hope marvel/Disney just doesn't want to stop it.

Essentially it's my understanding that Fox has never had the rights to make a cross over Movie even if they have right to the two properties in the crossover they are simply not allowed to make any Movie with two names in the title (unless both names come under the same license). So they can make Individual X-Men Movies with not problem.

It's one of those complex things like Universal having some rights related to the Distribution of Hulk Movies but no rights over any other Movie Hulk appears in as a Character.

So if Marvel Studios wanted to make a 'Planet Hulk' Movie they'd have to be sneaky and tag it as an Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy Movie and then just have the Hulk as the Villain otherwise Disney would have to negotiate with Universal over the Distribution and risk loosing half the profits.

Frankly I don't know the details of Deadpools Licensing - as I'm barely familar with him so at the point I'm just sort of puzzled how he ever got to be in a X-Men Movie before if he wasn't a Mutant. The only thing I can think is he somehow lumped in with the license like Doom did with the Fantastic Four.

But this is such complicated stuff - Just look at the Character 'The Grave Digger' as an example of that I hear that if a Silver Surfer Movie was Made and not a Fantastic Four Movie then his rights would be retained but The FF ones would be lost.

Which means in theory Fox can (sub-license) make a Movie with Doom vs The Silver Surfer and put Skrulls in it - and still loose the FF rights - so right could revert that didn't include galactus, The Silver Surfer or Doom but did the FF (in theory).

The other option that no one ever seems to mention is that Fox don't even own the Fantastic Four & Silver Surfer etc.. rights in the first place "Constantin Productions" does and Fox are just an associate aiding the rights holder to make the last few movies and to Distribute them.

So unless that company has a multi-picture contract with Fox - what is to stop them selling the rights back to Disney themselves straight away if they wanted too - or making a similar deal with Disney to the one they made with Fox ?

That has me curious too. Incidentally it's interesting to note that Simons Kinberg had his fingers in the 2005 Fantastic Four Script too (uncredited) as well as the X-Men Movies.

I bet Fox wish they'd just made a 3rd Movie now - especially as Rise of the Silver Surfer actually did OK, and the only real reason people got bent out of shape with that Movie was a combination of Nolan Batman Movie style reality tone pretensions getting in the way and this whole silly idea of making things Grim Dark that was a trend for a while. I bet another campy fun FF Movie would have fit in a treat off the back of Guardians and AntMan - basically Fox followed the wrong trend or at least failed to stick to one as a Grim-dark FF Movie is a silly idea but if they'd stuck to that they might have got some "Respect" for it instead of the Mockery they get for changing the entire tone of the Movie part way through.

I'd have Happily watched a second Sequel to the 2000's FF Movies. I've never had a problem with them... They are hardly 'Steel' now are they.

RAR wrote:Also if they wanted to make a Movie called X-Men Vs the Fantastic Four (with both names in the title - it's my understanding that isn't covered by the rights as they stand so Fox does not actually have the legal rights to do that - they have to ask permission or hope marvel/Disney just doesn't want to stop it.

Essentially it's my understanding that Fox has never had the rights to make a cross over Movie even if they have right to the two properties in the crossover they are simply not allowed to make any Movie with two names in the title (unless both names come under the same license). So they can make Individual X-Men Movies with not problem.

Incorrect. The new Fantastic Four movie was planned to take place in the same universe as the X-Men movies; that was only scrapped because they didn't think it would work thematically. It had nothing to do with licensing.

Shadowman wrote:

RAR wrote:Also if they wanted to make a Movie called X-Men Vs the Fantastic Four (with both names in the title - it's my understanding that isn't covered by the rights as they stand so Fox does not actually have the legal rights to do that - they have to ask permission or hope marvel/Disney just doesn't want to stop it.

Essentially it's my understanding that Fox has never had the rights to make a cross over Movie even if they have right to the two properties in the crossover they are simply not allowed to make any Movie with two names in the title (unless both names come under the same license). So they can make Individual X-Men Movies with not problem.

Incorrect. The new Fantastic Four movie was planned to take place in the same universe as the X-Men movies; that was only scrapped because they didn't think it would work thematically. It had nothing to do with licensing.

Let's be honest. Fox knew that FF would bomb, and probably only backtracked once they realized they don't want that pile associated with they're fairly critically acclaimed x-men series.

It Is Him wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

RAR wrote:Also if they wanted to make a Movie called X-Men Vs the Fantastic Four (with both names in the title - it's my understanding that isn't covered by the rights as they stand so Fox does not actually have the legal rights to do that - they have to ask permission or hope marvel/Disney just doesn't want to stop it.

Essentially it's my understanding that Fox has never had the rights to make a cross over Movie even if they have right to the two properties in the crossover they are simply not allowed to make any Movie with two names in the title (unless both names come under the same license). So they can make Individual X-Men Movies with not problem.

Incorrect. The new Fantastic Four movie was planned to take place in the same universe as the X-Men movies; that was only scrapped because they didn't think it would work thematically. It had nothing to do with licensing.

Let's be honest. Fox knew that FF would bomb, and probably only backtracked once they realized they don't want that pile associated with they're fairly critically acclaimed x-men series.

They only made F4 so the fiom rights wouldn't revert back to Disney. Because Fox execs are assholes.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

RAR wrote:Also if they wanted to make a Movie called X-Men Vs the Fantastic Four (with both names in the title - it's my understanding that isn't covered by the rights as they stand so Fox does not actually have the legal rights to do that - they have to ask permission or hope marvel/Disney just doesn't want to stop it.

Essentially it's my understanding that Fox has never had the rights to make a cross over Movie even if they have right to the two properties in the crossover they are simply not allowed to make any Movie with two names in the title (unless both names come under the same license). So they can make Individual X-Men Movies with not problem.

Incorrect. The new Fantastic Four movie was planned to take place in the same universe as the X-Men movies; that was only scrapped because they didn't think it would work thematically. It had nothing to do with licensing.

Let's be honest. Fox knew that FF would bomb, and probably only backtracked once they realized they don't want that pile associated with they're fairly critically acclaimed x-men series.

They only made F4 so the fiom rights wouldn't revert back to Disney. Because Fox execs are assholes.

I also suspect that they tried to make money off the movie, too. Fox will probably be more interested in returning to the table with Marvel after this one, so hopefully now they wised up.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:

It Is Him wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

RAR wrote:Also if they wanted to make a Movie called X-Men Vs the Fantastic Four (with both names in the title - it's my understanding that isn't covered by the rights as they stand so Fox does not actually have the legal rights to do that - they have to ask permission or hope marvel/Disney just doesn't want to stop it.

Essentially it's my understanding that Fox has never had the rights to make a cross over Movie even if they have right to the two properties in the crossover they are simply not allowed to make any Movie with two names in the title (unless both names come under the same license). So they can make Individual X-Men Movies with not problem.

Incorrect. The new Fantastic Four movie was planned to take place in the same universe as the X-Men movies; that was only scrapped because they didn't think it would work thematically. It had nothing to do with licensing.

Let's be honest. Fox knew that FF would bomb, and probably only backtracked once they realized they don't want that pile associated with they're fairly critically acclaimed x-men series.

They only made F4 so the fiom rights wouldn't revert back to Disney. Because Fox execs are assholes.

True. I would like to see a good F4 film someday since I'm not too familiar with F4

I'm still kinda wondering just why FOX kept the rights to Fantastic Four. I mean if they wanted to do their own expanded connected Universe there is more than enough X-Men related material to pull from. Heck, in the mid-90's during their peak Marvel was running at least 9 monthly titles. At least their starting to finally want to take advantage of this, what with them wanting to do a TV show( yes please), and a rumored New Mutants movie.

And since they do have the rights to the Skrulls and Galactus/Silver Surfer, why not do their own Cosmic Universe? It could be just as good as the one Marvel Studios has, because they also have the rights to the Shi'ar, the Starjammers(lead characters/film right there), the Phoenix entity, the Brood, the Shi'ar Imperial Guard, the Phalanx, possibly the Badoon? And if they wanted to be really really crafty Alien and Predator.

And if the X-Men are destined to be in their own separate Universe for the foreseeable future, I'm fine with that. It actually makes the presence of mutants and being born with X-ceptional powers that much more impactful, and as I said earlier they are not wanting for characters or stories.


Also, on a separate note, why doesn't Marvel want to do more Hulk solo films? Did the reboot do that sub-par? I recently was watching the TV Movie Trilogy(Hulk Returns, Trial, and Death of), and while Returns was a bit high on cheese the other two I think are pretty decent comic book films. No I don't hold them to as high standards as todays films, but given the limited budgets and development time they really did put some effort into it. And Daredevil is actually easier to accept in all black thanks to the Netflix series.

Aliens and Predator VS the X-Men? Yes please!

Fox may have the rights to only portions of the X-Men mythology, not necessarily all the characters that are normally connected to them (e.g. Shi'ar)

The whole "who has rights to what" is a bit of a mess.

As to the solo hulk movie question, I think some of the problem lies in the distribution deal they have with universal (I.e. solo films go through universal).

While I'm looking forward to deadpool I'm not enthusiastic about the rest of what fox has. Age of Apocalypse has been underwhelming from everything I've seen and the looks of apocalypse himself don't help with that in the slightest, I really hope he transforms into a beefed up form when he fights.

Yes I know Fox said they originally were thinking of making FF & X-Men exist in the same Universe - there is some reasons why that didn't happen to do with Producers internecine warfare it seems.

Those inside Fox didn't want those closely connected to X-men to "Take over" so it was separated for that reason - not because they thought it would suck at that time but for turfware reasons - the counter strike might have result in the FF Movie getting it's Budget cut though.

So basically Fox did it to themselves.

Anyway just to reiterate.

Disney & Marvel Studios seem to think that Fox does not have the rights to share a Property with another Property in a way that states the names of both in the title. and crossovers that otherwise happen seem to be down to Marvel turning a blind eye more than Fox actually being legally allowed under their contract to do it.

I'm still utterly perplexed how Deadpool got lumped in with the X-men though, unless he has his own deal - he's not an X-Men villain/associate as far as I know. He has less right to be called that than Wolverine does to be called an Avenger perhaps.

Something I'll try to look into if I can it puzzles me that does.

Also don't forget Fox does not own Fantastic Four's rights Constantin Productions does.

So the question is what is the nature of the deal between Fox & Constantin - if it's on a case by case basis the Fox can be cut out of any deal if Marvel Studios offers Constantin more money.

I think Fox is acting on behalf of Constantin though so I would speculate that some sort of multi-picture option deal may have been signed.

If it hasn't been though Disney can pull the rug out from under Fox simply by waving their cheque book at Constantin Pictures.

But I suspect they are "Doing a Harmony Gold" and just sitting on the right to be mischievous.

RAR wrote:Yes I know Fox said they originally were thinking of making FF & X-Men exist in the same Universe - there is some reasons why that didn't happen to do with Producers internecine warfare it seems.

Those inside Fox didn't want those closely connected to X-men to "Take over" so it was separated for that reason - not because they thought it would suck at that time but for turfware reasons - the counter strike might have result in the FF Movie getting it's Budget cut though.

So basically Fox did it to themselves.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Don-t-Ex ... 42979.html

"None of the X-Men movies have acknowledged the notion of a sort of superhero team--the Fantastic Four--and the Fantastic Four acquire powers, so for them to live in a world where mutants are prevalent is kind of complicated, because you’re like, 'Oh, you’re just a mutant. What’s so fantastic about you?' No, they live in discrete universes."

Deadpool isn't an xman though he is just having a couple turn up in his movie as guests, something I'm guessing will be pointed out by the man himself. Besides the merc with a mouth git his name out there when he teamed up with another certain X man.

Also, that little piece about X men and fantastic four sharing universes, I don't really buy that as an excuse as for one thing (going by the comics, the public loved the fantastic four)

Listen, RAR, for the life of me I can't understand why you find it so weird that Deadpool is in the X-Men films. His. VERY FIRST appearance was in a 1991 issue of The New Mutants as a villain. Lever since his very creation, he has had connections with the Weapon X program as well as X-Force. He even had a few cameos in the 1999 animated X-Men cartoon. He's a #_(<Ing X-Men character! Go read up on him!

ZeroWolf wrote:Deadpool isn't an xman though he is just having a couple turn up in his movie as guests, something I'm guessing will be pointed out by the man himself. Besides the merc with a mouth git his name out there when he teamed up with another certain X man.

If you're talking about X-Men Origins, Deadpool was popular long before that.

ZeroWolf wrote:Also, that little piece about X men and fantastic four sharing universes, I don't really buy that as an excuse as for one thing (going by the comics, the public loved the fantastic four)

Well that's why they decided to make the new FF movie separate from X-men.

I was referring to his adventures with cable to be fair

I fully admit I don't know very much about Deadpool. I wouldn't have even known he was "The Mouth" or Broke the 4th wall at that time I'm sure - I'd simply have seen a costume - I wouldn't have known his name or how he got his powers or what they even were at that time. and I only know little more now.

So no I didn't know he had "Genuine" connections to the Weapon X Programme I thought Fox just pulled that out of their backside for X-Men Origins Wolverine.

As I said I didn't know that he was a close affiliate / bad guy of the X-Men any more than Doctor Doom might be seen as a Spider-Man Villain.

I don't know much about Deadpool as he's only been a big thing in the times since I stopped buying all Comics he was to me just Marvel's version of Deadshot really.

I'd not read a New Mutant's Comic for so long I can't recall when it was, and I likely dropped that title even before I dropped all comics - since I didn't really buy Marvel much anyway when I could no longer buy them in a local shop cheaply they got to expensive to be on the buy as an import list.

So No I don't know much about Deadpool - I've seen him on covers read a little about him and own a toy of him - but that is it.

That was why I said I needed to look him up (I've done that for Guardian of the Galaxy and Other upcoming MCU stuff already) I was in not really Hurry - just a little curious, just not got around to Deadpool yet as I may not ever watch the Movie unless it's on TV with a less violent TV cut I don't watch gory Movies by preference; Kill Bill put me off such things for good.

It's not especially helpful trying to watch a Movie when all I feel is disgust and contempt at the filmmaker and the protagonist. I doubt I can even watch Mad Max Fury Road even that might be to disgusting for my delicate sensibilities.

That is why I appreciate MCU Movies I'm less likely to feel disgust at them.
I'm sure Deadpool will find an audience - I just suspect I'm not going to be a part of it - besides I don't make a habit of giving money to Hucksters like Fox or Sony and their "Faux Marvel" Movies on principle anyway.

To be completely fair to deadpool he's marvel answer to deathstroke as their names will attest (wade Wilson = deadpool, slade Wilson = deathstroke). I think there was more similarities then that but I can't remember.

ZeroWolf wrote:To be completely fair to deadpool he's marvel answer to deathstroke as their names will attest (wade Wilson = deadpool, slade Wilson = deathstroke). I think there was more similarities then that but I can't remember.

He was back when he was created. When Joe Kelley got a hold oh him, though, he turned into the Merc with the Mouth we all know and love.

RAR wrote:I fully admit I don't know very much about Deadpool. I wouldn't have even known he was "The Mouth" or Broke the 4th wall at that time I'm sure - I'd simply have seen a costume - I wouldn't have known his name or how he got his powers or what they even were at that time. and I only know little more now.

So no I didn't know he had "Genuine" connections to the Weapon X Programme I thought Fox just pulled that out of their backside for X-Men Origins Wolverine.

As I said I didn't know that he was a close affiliate / bad guy of the X-Men any more than Doctor Doom might be seen as a Spider-Man Villain.

Then why did you make so many posts about it? Next time, look into a subject first.

I will admit I'm more likely to research a DC thing or something MCU related I tend to treat anything by Fox and Sony as place holder Movies.

Besides Nemesis Maximo answered my questions so all resolved now.

-------

So to change the Subject a bit... Does anyone thing The Next X-men Movie will be any good is the tone potentially to campy this time - what with it being in the 1980's - or does it being in the 1980's give it an excuse to be silly ?

I'm pleased Quicksilver is in it. I've not fully looked into it - for like I said I don't pay super close attention to non-MCU or Non DC Super Hero Movies. But I'm curious enough about this one as I'm also sort of fond of 80's stuff to be curious about it for that reason.

Anyone wanna talk about that Movie's potential a bit ?

I'm afraid they will destroy apocalypse, my favourite villain from the 92 series and so far I've seen nothing to alay those fears.