Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Ironhidensh » Fri May 24, 2019 4:12 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:I think it's the wrong size for the price.


This. 100%

Although smaller than Cheetor, price-wise, she is in-between Optimus Primal and Dinobot, with no justification whatsoever.


The stand and web accessory isn't justification for the price?


Quite frankly no. It is a cheap looking, easily produced display stand. It still shouldn't price her above Cheetor, as I'm sure the price should be relative to the figure, not the accessories?


But nothing's free. I dont like the price either and I would much rather pay cheaper and have less accessories. But I dont think this release as a whole would make sense to be cheaper than cheetor when you get more stuff.


The Stand isn't that fancy. Plus, the 3rd Party market puts lie to the 'more parts, more cost' line takara likes to throw around. Their figures, over the years, have gone up in quality, and down in price. Takara is the exact opposite.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Wolfman Jake » Fri May 24, 2019 5:23 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The stand is essentially another part of the box, much in the same way as the clear plastic blister that holds the figure. It has no intrinsic ties to Beast Wars figures specifically. It could be for any figure, from any line.


The stand holds up the energy web accessory, though, which IS intrinsically tied to Beast Wars and Blackarachnia specifically, so although the stand is "generic" by itself, it's a necessary inclusion for an item that is relevant to the character.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Nemesis Maximo » Fri May 24, 2019 5:49 pm

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I actually like the stand a lot, and wish one was actually included with MP-43. I’m very happy with its inclusion with MP-46.

The stands are aesthetically pleasing and hold these figures better than almost any other stand.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat May 25, 2019 8:01 am

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Wolfman Jake wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The stand is essentially another part of the box, much in the same way as the clear plastic blister that holds the figure. It has no intrinsic ties to Beast Wars figures specifically. It could be for any figure, from any line.


The stand holds up the energy web accessory, though, which IS intrinsically tied to Beast Wars and Blackarachnia specifically, so although the stand is "generic" by itself, it's a necessary inclusion for an item that is relevant to the character.



A generic spider accessory (energy webs in Beast Wars being more commonly associated with Tarantulas, not Blackarachnia) being as relevant to her character as this was to MP-38 Primal:

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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Blackalekthor » Sat May 25, 2019 6:39 pm

Blackarachnia!!! Terrori... Mistransform!!!

https://www.facebook.com/2294185444128862/posts/2294187610795312/?app=fbl

So at the end she was...
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby SpikeyTigertron » Sun May 26, 2019 2:03 am

I'm still amazed so many fans are so split on this figure.... They want a "bigger bot" for the price... but also want "scale" (which won't work) she can't be *that* much cheaper with all the accessories, and a spider+web just makes sense imo. Plus if it's true that the stand lights up, then there's *that* as well. I'd wished Megs game with a stand, so now I'll have a second one, since Dinobot really needs one to be dynamic in any posing sense.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun May 26, 2019 2:27 am

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I find it odd how many people make allowances for the price by equating it to the number of "accessories" (by that I mean no one is referring to anything other than the stand). Like each additional gun and face plate marks up the figure, which it doesn't and never has. If the figure has solid joints, with even weight distribution I.E. built properly, they don't need a stand to be posed at all E.G. Primal, Cheetor and every single other MP figure in this line, from Car Bots to Soundwave to Ultra Magnus to all three Megatrons. So it was never a question of the stand being essential to BA, those making excuses for it, simply want one and don't consider the fact that it increases her price over Cheetor by £50 an issue.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby SpikeyTigertron » Sun May 26, 2019 2:48 am

I mean, yeah? They’ve been sneaking in more accessories and electronics to justify the price increase. The voice chips really don’t do anything for me since Hasbro won’t do the US actors....

But it’s the way they’re all going, look at sunstreaker being so expensive for a “car bot”. I am appreciative of the blast effects they’ve finally gotten around to.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun May 26, 2019 3:14 am

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SpikeyTigertron wrote:But it’s the way they’re all going


When I first bought Optimus Primal, I thought £99, for the most intricate (and accurate) Primal ever was a fair price for the Masterpiece Collection. Then came Cheetor/Shadow Panther at £79. Smaller figure = smaller price. This was all going logically at this point. Dinobot was next and for twice the size of Primal (more or less) I was happy to pay £130. Megatron, was pushing it. But I rationalised it to be, that at his size he was the ceiling in terms of pricing. Essentially equating him to Omega Supreme in scale to the rest of Season One's cast. Blackarachnia is the smallest Predacon. She is not equal in value to Dinobot, higher value than Primal, with or without a stand.

Unless they are setting a new precedent that all MP's with Stands come in at a £130 price point. In which I will laugh deeply when they try to charge that for Airazor and end up with MP BW first main cast shelfwarmer.

[Note: I've never used or even tested the electronics for Primal, Megatron or Dinobot. I grew up with enough figures featuring 'water' or 'light up' gimmicks to know these features rot a figure from the inside out, to ever touch them on an MP figure.]

As for the quote, it comes down to Overpriced Prime. For all those that decry how much BW Megatron costs, MP-44 is higher still. Yet the pre-orders have sold out in most places, which is insane. Some will throw money at anything HasTak put out as long as it is a character they want. Effectively poisoning the well for the rest of the fans that find the price of everything else creeping up as a result.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby SpikeyTigertron » Sun May 26, 2019 3:42 am

If one considers, development/engineering "time" into the equation... I'd bet Black Arachnia left them scratching their heads for a while, and this (love/hate it) was the best compromise. Primal is basically the same as his old Ultra class with smoother lines and electronics. Cheetor was also pretty straight forward (for the most part). I am curious how much of this MP barrows from the older Animated figure, since that was a pretty good compromise back in the day too.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby SpikeyTigertron » Sun May 26, 2019 3:51 am

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/black-widow-152352431


Price aside, i'd like to give Takara credit for actually getting pretty close to the actual spider's form. I'm also not convinced a "pannel" would really hide those shins either.


I think Tarantulus or Rat Trap will be the comparable tests. Though both of them could also come with a fair share of accessories (especialy RT).
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun May 26, 2019 4:04 am

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MP Cheetors shins and ..well any of Dinobots limbs, say they have access to the engineering know-how that could have hidden the gold on her shins if they wanted to.

It will be interesting to see the price of Tarantulas. As he should be a bigger figure, by default. Would people cry foul if he didn't have a stand and they still tried to charge more than Primal?

Realistically, MP Rattrap is probably going to be the least scale and show accurate.

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Look how small his Beast backpack retracts to on the show model. I think Rattrap will have to come with a lot of accessories just to justify even Cheetor's price point.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Black Hat » Sun May 26, 2019 5:38 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I find it odd how many people make allowances for the price by equating it to the number of "accessories" (by that I mean no one is referring to anything other than the stand). Like each additional gun and face plate marks up the figure, which it doesn't and never has. If the figure has solid joints, with even weight distribution I.E. built properly, they don't need a stand to be posed at all E.G. Primal, Cheetor and every single other MP figure in this line, from Car Bots to Soundwave to Ultra Magnus to all three Megatrons. So it was never a question of the stand being essential to BA, those making excuses for it, simply want one and don't consider the fact that it increases her price over Cheetor by £50 an issue.

Stands DO allow for poses that just aren't possible with the figure standing on its own though- a lot of more dynamic poses just do not work without one. And that goes for non-transforming figs too- I'd hate to try posing my Figmas, Revoltechs etc without stands.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun May 26, 2019 5:47 am

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Black Hat wrote:Stands DO allow for poses that just aren't possible with the figure standing on its own though- a lot of more dynamic poses just do not work without one. And that goes for non-transforming figs too- I'd hate to try posing my Figmas, Revoltechs etc without stands.


And if you are happy to pay an excessive extra amount for superfluous "poses", more power to you.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby Black Hat » Sun May 26, 2019 6:11 am

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Black Hat wrote:Stands DO allow for poses that just aren't possible with the figure standing on its own though- a lot of more dynamic poses just do not work without one. And that goes for non-transforming figs too- I'd hate to try posing my Figmas, Revoltechs etc without stands.


And if you are happy to pay an excessive extra amount for superfluous "poses", more power to you.

"Superfluous"? What's the point in having a figure as incredibly poseable as MP Blackarachnia if you can't utilize that poseability due to lacking a stand? Unless you're one of these people that just lines up their figures on a shelf standing stock-still (at which point you might as well collect cardboard cutouts) in which case I suppose anything that enables poses beyond standing upright is "superfluous".

I agree the price is a tad excessive, and I would have settled for a less grandiose stand (a clear Tamashii-style stand would have done the trick) but wanting less accessories, let alone ones as useful as a display stand, is kinda mad.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun May 26, 2019 6:35 am

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The articulation creates the possibility, that the figure is capable of. That's the whole point of it. You might as well just have a Brick figure on a "fancy" diorama without it. I have my MP Beast Wars, Soul of Chogokins and Storm Collectibles MK figures in a variety of poses. With no gaudy pieces of excess plastic in sight. That's where creativity and imagination comes in. The "usefulness" of something like a display stand, is likewise subjective, of course.

It's not about "less accessories" though. Because the stand isn't a Beast Wars or Blackarachnia-specific accessory. It is just a display tool. An accessory is a weapon, a device they used or even, for something larger, (as previously mentioned) a Stasis Pod. Just because they molded it into a generic spider web, some are acting like it came from some great set piece that she starred in. As Notable as Megatron's toothbrush or Dinobot's Golden Disk. It isn't.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby SpikeyTigertron » Sun May 26, 2019 7:59 am

Black Hat wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Black Hat wrote:Stands DO allow for poses that just aren't possible with the figure standing on its own though- a lot of more dynamic poses just do not work without one. And that goes for non-transforming figs too- I'd hate to try posing my Figmas, Revoltechs etc without stands.


And if you are happy to pay an excessive extra amount for superfluous "poses", more power to you.

"Superfluous"? What's the point in having a figure as incredibly poseable as MP Blackarachnia if you can't utilize that poseability due to lacking a stand? Unless you're one of these people that just lines up their figures on a shelf standing stock-still (at which point you might as well collect cardboard cutouts) in which case I suppose anything that enables poses beyond standing upright is "superfluous".

I agree the price is a tad excessive, and I would have settled for a less grandiose stand (a clear Tamashii-style stand would have done the trick) but wanting less accessories, let alone ones as useful as a display stand, is kinda mad.


Speaking of "clear stands" what happened to the officially branded stands, that came out along side Tracks/Loudpedal/Roadrage?

But I also agree 100% about the stands and posing (esp. with figma/figure arts, etc). I think it was one of the reasons I was so miffed about Megs not having it... because so many product shots *showed* one... I guess there was a little *stand sold separately* note lol.

I mean Primal wouldn't be able to naturally hold Megs over his head, that needed the stand, and specifically comes with and adapter *just for that*.

Maybe she'll end up being the Sunstreaker of the car-bots and justify the extra cost in hand. We'll find out.

Though since you mention you collect SoC... i'm not sure why you're squeaking at the price. I can't fathom why their Voltron or Megazords are the prices they want for them. But to each their own.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun May 26, 2019 9:40 am

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I don't collect all SoC. I have next to no interest in Power Rangers/Super Sentai or Voltron. To date I have Gold Lightan and Tetsujin-28 (AKA Gigantor). They are big individual pieces, with prices comparable to Blackarachnia, ironically enough.

My point is that Blackarachnia as a figure is not worth being priced £50 more than Cheetor, or £30 more than Primal, just because of a non-optional stand.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Tue May 28, 2019 5:32 pm

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Personally, I love the stand, and I appreciate the one that came with Dinobot and they did an incredible one with Blackarachnia.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:24 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:My point is that Blackarachnia as a figure is not worth being priced £50 more than Cheetor, or £30 more than Primal, just because of a non-optional stand.




So, in light of MP-47 Hound, it turns out I was wrong. Blackarachnia isn't £50 more than MP Cheetor due to the stand. £130 seems to be the New Default price for the Masterpiece figures. So effectively standard size MPs have jumped up in price by over 60% within six months, WTF, HASBRO!? :shock: :BOOM:
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby ZeroWolf » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:29 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:My point is that Blackarachnia as a figure is not worth being priced £50 more than Cheetor, or £30 more than Primal, just because of a non-optional stand.




So, in light of MP-47 Hound, it turns out I was wrong. Blackarachnia isn't £50 more than MP Cheetor due to the stand. £130 seems to be the New Default price for the Masterpiece figures. So effectively standard size MPs have jumped up in price by over 60% within six months, WTF, HASBRO!? :shock: :BOOM:

You might want to aim that comment at Takara, they are the ones setting the price, Hasbro are just changing the currency symbol :lol:
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:32 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:My point is that Blackarachnia as a figure is not worth being priced £50 more than Cheetor, or £30 more than Primal, just because of a non-optional stand.




So, in light of MP-47 Hound, it turns out I was wrong. Blackarachnia isn't £50 more than MP Cheetor due to the stand. £130 seems to be the New Default price for the Masterpiece figures. So effectively standard size MPs have jumped up in price by over 60% within six months, WTF, HASBRO!? :shock: :BOOM:

You might want to aim that comment at Takara, they are the ones setting the price, Hasbro are just changing the currency symbol :lol:



True :D That is outrageous though. Such a price increase within half a year isn't justifiable, it just isn't.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:19 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:My point is that Blackarachnia as a figure is not worth being priced £50 more than Cheetor, or £30 more than Primal, just because of a non-optional stand.




So, in light of MP-47 Hound, it turns out I was wrong. Blackarachnia isn't £50 more than MP Cheetor due to the stand. £130 seems to be the New Default price for the Masterpiece figures. So effectively standard size MPs have jumped up in price by over 60% within six months, WTF, HASBRO!? :shock: :BOOM:


A friendly reminder that in Canada (and proportionally in the USA) the price standard figures have also have increased by that much.

Deluxes. From 20$ to 30$ (50%)
Voyagers. From 30$ to 40$ (33$)
Leaders. From 60$ to 70$ (I'm lazy %)

The only "deluxes" that remained 20$ are the Cyberverse ones and that's just because they are now Dollar Store garbage.

So, based on all that, it's no surprise that the MP lines followed. After YEARS of frozen prices, it was bound to happen sooner or later. We just have to deal with it.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:27 pm

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20% - 30% increase, sure. But 50%+ is pure greed on Takara's part. Especially as they are noticeably using downgraded materials too.
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Re: Masterpiece MP-46 Blackwidow (Beast Wars), A.K.A. Blackarachnia

Postby william-james88 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:36 pm

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:20% - 30% increase, sure. But 50%+ is pure greed on Takara's part. Especially as they are noticeably using downgraded materials too.

They are?

Also, this reminds me of this piece I once wrote:

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ada/39204/
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