The Energon Pub

As with the evergreen ethos of the toys, since we are verging on the 40th anniversary of the franchise in a few years time. Should some character designs be officially and permanently updated?

Soundwave and Blaster, for example, are dead technology. Now I'm not talking about the odd new reinterpretation IE Soundwave as truck in Animated and WFC/FoC, or as a drone in Prime. I'm talking about a new defining look aligned across all media. Just like the original design has persisted in comics and toys to this day.

Personally, if it's for an older series, the base designs should stay as is just for remembering the past and how it lead to today, even if the technology is obsolete. Sure, the 1980's designs were... bland or simple by today's standards, but that is a good thing as it offers more directions to go into for redesigning purposes. In this case less is more.

I think another reason to modernise some of the older designs, would be to phase out the various origins of the line. No more “originally Microman/Diaclone/etc” just all default Transformers.

I think that it really depends on the character on a case by case basis. I wouldn’t mind seeing a movie character from 2007 updated to a 2021 vehicle, but G1 characters should stay the way they were…Especially Soundwave and Bumblebee.

I agree that some desings should be updated for their "evergreen" version.
Here is a example I like with Arcee:

This references and combines previous designs without being tieing to a specific era and still looks good on its own.

Blaster could be a Volkswagen DJ Bus or a car with subwoofers.

Flywheelsjethalf wrote:I think that it really depends on the character on a case by case basis. I wouldn’t mind seeing a movie character from 2007 updated to a 2021 vehicle, but G1 characters should stay the way they were…Especially Soundwave and Bumblebee.

I'm not talking about just giving some a newer altmode. To be fair, Soundwave is one of the worst offenders.



^ That, doesn't mean anything to anyone from the last 20+ years.
Much like they did with the Aligned Continuity, shoehorning all those extra primes into everything. I'm thinking inline of a new, line in the sand, beginning. Visual identities for characters like BB and Soundwave are mostly colour theory anyway. Providing BB=yellow & SW=blue, as long as the faces look similar, I doubt there would be too much backlash. Regarding a new jumping-on point that alters everyone.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Flywheelsjethalf wrote:I think that it really depends on the character on a case by case basis. I wouldn’t mind seeing a movie character from 2007 updated to a 2021 vehicle, but G1 characters should stay the way they were…Especially Soundwave and Bumblebee.

I'm not talking about just giving some a newer altmode. To be fair, Soundwave is one of the worst offenders.



^ That, doesn't mean anything to anyone from the last 20+ years.
Much like they did with the Aligned Continuity, shoehorning all those extra primes into everything. I'm thinking inline of a new, line in the sand, beginning. Visual identities for characters like BB and Soundwave are mostly colour theory anyway. Providing BB=yellow & SW=blue, as long as the faces look similar, I doubt there would be too much backlash. Regarding a new jumping-on point that alters everyone.

I do like what they did with Soundwave in Prime, thatvwas a great reinterpretation that worked.

I'd be down with what you're proposing but I sadly think that others wouldn't be.

I didn't like a lot in Prime, but Soundwave was very interesting.

Aside from getting rid of the multiple origins side of the franchise. Look at the new, breakout characters of the last 25 years. Your Rattrap, Bulkhead, Tarantulas etc Then look at whenever subsequent media has put them next the Evergreen G1 designs and, even just on an aesthetic level, they don't mesh. Even IDW's colonies idea actually made the issue more apparent.

Yeah I get that

^This team. Would be one of the primary sets to benefit from modern, standardised designs. Remove the Bandai claim on them, and the Deluxe Insecticons would be free to join their contemporaries.

Soundwave's always going to have the problem that he's associated with, well, sound, and tech levels have put consumer-grade sound into a chip so small that the exterior of anything that plays sound can look like literally anything. There's no culturally iconic 'look' for something that plays sounds any more, except maybe a speaker stack - and there are few places that could be considered a disguise.

Likewise, Soundwave's associated with his minions. Ideally, having them turn into something that stores in him and can be deployed. That makes the altmode issue even more fraught; there just isn't much in the way of physical audio media any more, or at least there aren't forms as iconic as the cassette was. The CD's gone the way of the dodo as well, and it's not like that would have been easy to make minions out of. So the Cassetticons basically can't be physical audio storage devices any longer.


Personally, I'd approach the problem from a toy-based starting point. The Cassetticons, or whatever their update is going to be called, are assorted humanoids and other creatures which all turn into the same shape. And microcassettes were a great generic shape; that rectangular slab had a million transformation possibilities. I'd suggest retaining that in some form because it gives designers a lot of wiggle room when designing minions, which is part of what makes Soundwave have such great play value.

So: keep the slab-shape. They don't have to be actual audio cassettes any more; that could just be something it was easy for them to tweak their altmode into in the 80s. Instead, have something else boxy. It wouldn't even have to be an actual Earth mode - a 'Cybertronian data store mode' would be perfectly fine. Or make them slices of a twenty-foot shipping container, with Soundwave as the transport vehicle. You could even release multiple toys of Soundwave with different altmodes to carry the 'container' - flatbed truck, cargo plane, spaceship, attack sub maybe?

Or give Soundwave a bunch of connectors and make the minions all sound-themed Targetmasters - boxy bass cannons, tuning-fork railguns, vaguely parabolic dish array things, something with a stack of ultrasonic spikes pointed in the same direction. Soundwave himself can be some kind of ultra-pimped street-techno vehicle, either looking like Transtech Shockwave or Animated Ultra Magnus. Have his new thing be more about being sound/music-themed instead of turning into an actual music player. For the reconnaissance/spying side, have him in-universe be able to launch tiny drones which, like the AutoScout, unfold into tiny multicopters or the Cybertronian equivalent. Plus the spying capabilities of his minions, of course - it's not like Laserbeak spied on the Autobots in cassette mode in G1S1E1.

Soundwave and Blaster were always going to be a problem moving forward. Much like Cerebros, with his "mainframe" altmode...

(Technically Cerebros has only had an altmode in one thing. Mostly he is either Fort Max' head or a cameo without visible altmode)

Technology advances. The only way for these three to remain valid is to be permanently dated to their respective eras IE Soundwave/Blaster canonically die within the 1980's. Or assign them altmodes not related to sound-based technology at all. Along the lines of Animated and the Full Moon games. Less the "space ship" from WFC.

Obviously, after The Movie, the "Robots in Disguise" ethos was dropped. Even beforehand, there were some characters that it never applied to, to begin with IE The Dinobots and Predacons. Towards the end of G1, it got weirder...


The Firecons


The Monsterbots

Although appearing in the Takara series. They haven't really made a comeback onscreen since. The Monsterbots got a little spotlight in IDWverse. But that was a guest appearance in Maximum Dinobots and a handful of visual cameos. The Firecons got basically the same deal.

So how to fix the Beast Bots? I think part of the problem is much like with Beast Wars Fuzors. They are very context specific. They aren't characters that can appear on the Arc/Nemesis/Earth in any reboots. They don't really fit in with an Earth-based narrative. So is it a matter of where to put them? Or do they just need a complete visual overhaul??

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
The Monsterbots

Although appearing in the Takara series. They haven't really made a comeback onscreen since. The Monsterbots got a little spotlight in IDWverse. But that was a guest appearance in Maximum Dinobots and a handful of visual cameos. The Firecons got basically the same deal.

Did you forget Repugnus and his Monsterbot clan in Cyberverse? They had an entire episode devoted to them, plus big roles in the Season 3 opening and a cameo in the final episode.

Anyway, I think most of the out-there animal/monster modes have a pretty easy explanation story-wise (one I wish they used for the more monstruous-looking Pretender shells as well): they're alien forms. Either from Cybertron itself or from other planets Cybertronians have fought on.

1) Never watched Cyberverse.

2) "Haven't really made a comeback" would still apply to a standalone episode and some cameos. Which is the equivalent to their length of appearance in IDWverse. For them to receive more than that, would require them to be cast regulars. Which is the issue I alluded to before.

While alien lifeforms is one way to go. I also appreciate you didn't go down the extremely creatively lazy "colony" route that latter IDW (and HasTak itself) has gone down.

I also think there is a potential solution in what was done with the Pretenders in Stormbringer.

Where they went from this:





To this:





Keeping certain identifying design motifs in place. But blend all the elements together and upgrade the whole thing.

Nothing is wrong with how the origional pretenders were were! They were special.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:While alien lifeforms is one way to go. I also appreciate you didn't go down the extremely creatively lazy "colony" route that latter IDW (and HasTak itself) has gone down.

I think you misunderstood me: I said alien world, not colony world. You know, expand the Transformers universe and the planets/people they interacted with besides human, Nebulan and Quintesson (or heck, make them Nebulan or Quintesson; we barely know anything of their native fauna anyway aside from a few scenes of Quintessa in the 86 movie).

Also, what's exactly "lazy" about the colony worlds? On the contrary, I think it has a lot of untapped potential on exploring alternatives to the usual Cybertronians we tend to see, both physically (different designs, unique altmodes and special abilities/weaknesses developed to survive their environment) and socially (different values, social structures and belief systems). I wish they had explored it a lot deeper than they did, where it's usually just giving them an alt-mode theme or planet-wide obsession.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I also think there is a potential solution in what was done with the Pretenders in Stormbringer.

Where they went from this:





To this:





Keeping certain identifying design motifs in place. But blend all the elements together and upgrade the whole thing.

Eh, I'm not too fond of that approach. It works on more humanoid Pretenders like Bludgeon and Thunderwing, but otherwise it creates a lot of Cons with animalistic traits and appearances that don't match their alt-modes or abilities, and end up clashing with the more humanoid majority of Cybertronians. It feels the same as the Bayverse and RiD2015 Decepticons, which looked so monstruous or animalistic compared to the Autobots it feels like they're different species rather than factions.

If it's to strip Pretenders of their organic look entirely, I'd mostly prefer the other alternative used by the Autobots in the rest of IDW: make the Pretender suits additional armor for dangerous environments.

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:Nothing is wrong with how the origional pretenders were were! They were special.

I agree; apart from the lack of articulation and unconvincing altmodes, I actually like the concept (well, except the Pretender Vehicles; having robots that already turn into vehicles disguise as other vehicles is just stupid). Honestly, I'd be glad if the only toy updates were a better designed robot/vehicle and fully-articulated "shells" they can ride like mechas.

If anything, my main complaint is only in terms of keeping the premise consistent: if the Pretender shell is meant to disguise themselves on predominantly organic worlds like Earth, why do most of the non-Beast Pretender Decepticons except Stranglehold (and the Autobots Doubleheader and Longtooth) look like monsters or alien creatures you'd never find on Earth?

I know the Japanese series explained the Decepticon pretenders appearance sway by saying they were explicitly going for the monstrous look to scare humanity while the Autobots took human forms to blend in.

MaximalNui wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:While alien lifeforms is one way to go. I also appreciate you didn't go down the extremely creatively lazy "colony" route that latter IDW (and HasTak itself) has gone down.

I think you misunderstood me: I said alien world, not colony world. You know, expand the Transformers universe and the planets/people they interacted with besides human, Nebulan and Quintesson (or heck, make them Nebulan or Quintesson; we barely know anything of their native fauna anyway aside from a few scenes of Quintessa in the 86 movie).

That's what I was commending you for. Opting for alien worlds over colonies.

MaximalNui wrote:Also, what's exactly "lazy" about the colony worlds? On the contrary, I think it has a lot of untapped potential on exploring alternatives to the usual Cybertronians we tend to see, both physically (different designs, unique altmodes and special abilities/weaknesses developed to survive their environment) and socially (different values, social structures and belief systems). I wish they had explored it a lot deeper than they did, where it's usually just giving them an alt-mode theme or planet-wide obsession.

It's lazy because they only implemented it to account for throwing various eras of Transformers together. G1 had a timeline, wherein things such as Master and Pretender tech were a natural evolution. Occurring over many years of conflict. That the Maximals and Predacons were Cybertronian descendants from further into the future. Colonies were applied so a given writer could have Bumblebee, Rattrap and Dai Atlas all appear next to each other. Foregoing world building and developing a legacy narrative. That's why it is lazy.

MaximalNui wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:While alien lifeforms is one way to go. I also appreciate you didn't go down the extremely creatively lazy "colony" route that latter IDW (and HasTak itself) has gone down.

I think you misunderstood me: I said alien world, not colony world. You know, expand the Transformers universe and the planets/people they interacted with besides human, Nebulan and Quintesson (or heck, make them Nebulan or Quintesson; we barely know anything of their native fauna anyway aside from a few scenes of Quintessa in the 86 movie).

Also, what's exactly "lazy" about the colony worlds? On the contrary, I think it has a lot of untapped potential on exploring alternatives to the usual Cybertronians we tend to see, both physically (different designs, unique altmodes and special abilities/weaknesses developed to survive their environment) and socially (different values, social structures and belief systems). I wish they had explored it a lot deeper than they did, where it's usually just giving them an alt-mode theme or planet-wide obsession.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I also think there is a potential solution in what was done with the Pretenders in Stormbringer.

Where they went from this:





To this:





Keeping certain identifying design motifs in place. But blend all the elements together and upgrade the whole thing.

Eh, I'm not too fond of that approach. It works on more humanoid Pretenders like Bludgeon and Thunderwing, but otherwise it creates a lot of Cons with animalistic traits and appearances that don't match their alt-modes or abilities, and end up clashing with the more humanoid majority of Cybertronians. It feels the same as the Bayverse and RiD2015 Decepticons, which looked so monstruous or animalistic compared to the Autobots it feels like they're different species rather than factions.

If it's to strip Pretenders of their organic look entirely, I'd mostly prefer the other alternative used by the Autobots in the rest of IDW: make the Pretender suits additional armor for dangerous environments.

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:Nothing is wrong with how the origional pretenders were were! They were special.

I agree; apart from the lack of articulation and unconvincing altmodes, I actually like the concept (well, except the Pretender Vehicles; having robots that already turn into vehicles disguise as other vehicles is just stupid). Honestly, I'd be glad if the only toy updates were a better designed robot/vehicle and fully-articulated "shells" they can ride like mechas.

If anything, my main complaint is only in terms of keeping the premise consistent: if the Pretender shell is meant to disguise themselves on predominantly organic worlds like Earth, why do most of the non-Beast Pretender Decepticons except Stranglehold (and the Autobots Doubleheader and Longtooth) look like monsters or alien creatures you'd never find on Earth?

The pretender do have terrible alt modes, but G1 toys were not perfect. They can be improved though.

(Personally love this one)










Is Cosmos a character that needs to be modernised in design or standardised? Given his size and shape vary wildly between continuities.

I don't think so. Being a throwback to antiquated, cheesy sci-fi movies was always part of his charm and identity, even during the 80's. And it's not like it's too hard to modernise/make it more serious-looking, as these images clearly show.

MaximalNui wrote:I don't think so. Being a throwback to antiquated, cheesy sci-fi movies was always part of his charm and identity, even during the 80's. And it's not like it's too hard to modernise/make it more serious-looking, as these images clearly show.

Agreed, Cosmos is special. Keep him that way.

Regarding alt-modes, there's one thing I'd like to see modernized (or at least updated): organic dino-modes. Characters like Dinobot and Beast Megatron are still portrayed as the scaly, Jurassic Park-inspired beasts instead of the feathered look everyone's already aware is the most accurate. Even in Kingdom, where every other Beast Warrior got a more accurate beast mode, they only get slightly better proportions and scaly texture; they couldn't even bother to put Dinobot's hands at the right angle!