The Energon Pub

Rodimus Prime wrote: I will say that as far as money is concerned, if that's the main roadblock between Hasbro and Cullen, then why don't they resolve it by compromise? If Cullen loves the character so much, is worried about his legacy, and disapproved of those following him, why doesn't he lower his demand to play Prime? Maybe the union terms don't allow him?

But that's the point. The union is so that he doesn't end up in a bidding war where the lowest bid wins. He shouldn't have to lower his rate to do his job and that would cause a detrimental precedent for his colleagues. And it's not about the money necessarily but one's worth in the industry. When you pay for Cullen, you pay for someone who knows the character inside and out and that should be worth something.
Also, him being in a union means he has substantial union costs, money he has to pay out on a schedule that will help other actors. Paying a union actor on par as a non union actor would really hurt him financially since he must still pay his fees. This whole talk of unions kinda reminds me how Paypal and e-bay have those fees that contribute to them helping people out in case a deal goes wrong. You can arrange a deal outside of e-bay and paypal to not incurr the fees but that puts you at risk.

o.supreme wrote:I just hope we don't kill it before Earthrise comes along.

This so much. I hope the negative side of this fandom isn't too loud about all the flaws.
It's something that I hate these days, a splinter group being so overly vocal for the entertainment industry to bow and bend to their will. Most of he time that splinter group isn't even a fan or consumer of that entertainment, they just bitch about it non-stop on twitter for lack of any personality, integrity or a life.

Current political climate aside

I like the show, have seen 4 episodes, tomorrow the other 2.

Likes:
- Visuals, I love the 3d models, look of Cybertron, subtle cartoon shader outline
- Animation, they move good, transform cool
- Voice acting is okay to good imho
- Background characters, it's so cute seeing autobots sit in corners, loved that about the Highmoon Studios games (true fans)
- Lots of characters!
- Gloomy setting (most tf shows are happy funny > I <3 Cyberverse)
- They look like the toys!
- Characters, now I have to get an Impactor, wasn't planning to but you know
- Setting that there are also non-faction transformers

Not likes:
- Lot of characters talk slow
- Not a lot of transforming
- Not a lot of energy in the scenes
- Not a lot of humor (I don't need kiddy humor but more subtle military humor etc.)
- Tactics and choices are very unstrategic
- Not good attack damage consistency
- Bit too much talking
- Bit too much walking (they have wheels)

Overall so far, A lot better than Prime Wars Trilogy but doesn't completely feel like a cartoon show. It's a bit alternative. It has rewatchability for the visual style alone.
I hope it does well for Netflix and that they can make Season 2.
If they can up the energy (faster talking, more movement/transformations/battles) and maybe add a tiny bit of more humor then it could be solidly good.

I could be wrong but I think the idea is to do a season per chapter, so the next chapter isn't dependent on success of siege as they're already working on it.

Now as for Cullen, he'd have a great point if he didn't then insult the other voice actors. I think Jon did a great job as Prime in the n BB movie, like Cyberverse's take on the character. I think its great to give other people the chance to voice these characters.

william-james88 wrote:Also, there is a bit I don't get. Optimus doesn't have a mouth in Bumblebee, I see no reason why there would be such scrutiny for matching someone else's acting and how long a vowel is performed. I am sure Cullen isn't lieing about any of it, I just don't get the point to go out of one's way like that, especially when you could have the expert on the character give you his best work and feel better about it. Even when Jon decribes it, his voice is more of a placeholder, not something to model a performance on.

And just to reiterate, Optimus doesn't show his mouth

His mouthplate still moves in the movie.

ZeroWolf wrote:Now as for Cullen, he'd have a great point if he didn't then insult the other voice actors. I think Jon did a great job as Prime in the n BB movie,

Er, Jon was only Prime in the preliminary work for the movie, not the movie proper. Cullen's voice is the one we hear in the film.

Jon did voice Optimus in both Combiner Wars and Ask Vector Prime, though.

Anyway, regarding the Netflix show...

ZeroWolf wrote:I could be wrong but I think the idea is to do a season per chapter, so the next chapter isn't dependent on success of siege as they're already working on it.

Correct. A contract for three seasons was likely initiated with Netflix back when this project first began, so Earthrise and Kingdom would be locked in for production.

It does suck about the comments about the other vo's, but I think it's probably because Optimus as a character means a lot to Cullen, he has spoken in the past about how he see's the character such as how he thinks about movie Prime among other things.

You should never meet your heroes
As the old saying goes.

As far as negativity goes, it is a completely average show with some bad bits (mostly audio related). I've read comments elsewhere of people proclaiming the show as "awesome" which is equally mind blowing. Obviously different strokes for different folks. But there is nothing I saw in this show that is worthy of that high a logical assessment. Shows of the past have had truly awesome moments, even Sunbow. But what was there in this show that was that exciting and/or captivating?

I think unrealistic, blinkered praise can be just as damaging as vocal negativity. That's the kind of thing that gives popularity to the mediocre. Because those behind it don't think there is anything to change or improve.

Watched the series over two days with my brother (and the toys). I was pretty satisfied.
There were a few things I disliked, such as:
-Everyone...talked...so...slowly.. Jetfire at one point even needlessly breaks up a single word. ("Under...stood.") It must have been the voice direction, not the actors themselves, because every character was in on it (except Wheeljack). Some voices, as others have pointed out, were kind of generic, or ill-fitting. Ironhide and Hound should have switched voices. (And roles, for that matter.) Generally, however, I could tell who was speaking, and didn't experience any audio issues. We watched through the T.V., not a computer, so maybe that had an effect?
-The pacing was like a freight train the first two episodes, but it picked up afterwords so I'll forgive it.
-The only problem I have with Bumblebee's role is that it is not a role for someone like Bumblebee. Cliffjumper or Smokescreen I could see, and really any other Autobot not super popular could have been given that role and there'd be little problem. It's just weird seeing Bumblebee, the mascot Autobot ideal of friendliness, being the cynical, conniving, self-serving loner.
-Characters would appear out of nowhere and immediately be treated as main characters. Mirage, Prowl, Chromia, and Arcee were all just suddenly in the plot. I they had been seen in the background or in crowd shots early on it would have seemed less jarring. There was a missed opportunity to establish them when Bee was brought in for the first time. Omega Supreme is only barely introduced right before the climax. Proper introductions for the characters would have allowed for greater investment in their actions. (Moonracer gets a pass here because she was a red shirt and no one expected her anyway.)

Now for things I enjoyed:
-Everything about Wheeljack. His personality and performance were on point, really capturing his character. When many others are given lackluster or altered characterizations, to see a genuine reincarnation of an original depiction is appreciated. This is the type of G1 nostalgia that I think is what most people want, but is absent from modern attempts.
-For the most part, the deaths were handled very well. Ultra Magnus's murder triggers the A3 Protocols which allows the Autobots to actually accomplish there goals, and it motivates Jetfire to reconider his allegiance. Impactor rather endearingly sacrifices himself to save Ratchet. And everyone else...survives! I was actually expecting a higher casualty rate, so I'm glad the characters get to live to see more development, and the ones that didn't impacted the plot, instead of just being useless canon fodder like everyone in Prime Wars. I thought Spinister and Skytread were going to go this way, but then they show up again in the last episode, so maybe they did survive? The only ball dropped was Skywarp. He takes a single shot, survives long enough to make it back to base (where presumably they are equipped to repair him), before apparently dying off screen. He may have been bleeding out the whole way, but it was kind of an ignoble death for a character that should be an A-lister. It should have been Hotlink!
-Character-based side plots were pretty enjoyable, though somewhat rushed. I feel this would have been improved if there were better introductions to the characters, but for the most part I have no problems with them. It was nice seeing the Autobots snark and banter a little.
-The Decepticons were handled very well. They felt like a genuine, motivated threat. They were also very faithful to their G1 selves while still being new takes. Only Soundwave seemed unfortunately underutilized, and his voice really misses the mark (far too high-pitched). And Barricade actually got to be involved quite heavily, I had him pegged as a hi-and-die. Good for you, Barry.
-Soundblaster's surprise appearance, complete with actual introduction, and brilliant take as separate, but still related character from Soundwave.
-When the ark finally launched, I got very excited. The last two episodes were pretty epic.

While perhaps not too original, Siege's story is a necessary starting point for a series with plenty of potential for creativity. All in all, I give the series a solid B+, and am looking forward to Earthrise.

This is probably the first Transformers show I've watched through to a season's end since RiD 2015's second season.

Uh....it wasn't great.

I guess the main feeling I had watching the show was a series of ups and downs. Parts that really excited and surprised me followed by parts that really confused and disappointed me, multiple times an episode. I was really only thoroughly enjoying the first episode despite some of its issues. I really like the direction they took with Megatron, and loved the voicework on him, similarly for Starscream. For me, watching those two in action were the best parts of the show. I thought the origin story Starscream got in terms of becoming air commander was quite interesting! I liked the overall artstyle, but the animation could sometimes feel stiff. The story was a little too beat-for-beat, not really allowing for much charisma or character, but it was not unwatchable.

I didn't like how a lot of characters just got thrust into the action and were expected to be treated as if they were there the whole time. Sideswipe and Hound, for instance, are featured prominently in the first couple of episodes but barely have anything to do in the middle until they resurface in the finale. Mirage, Arcee, Prowl, and Ironhide literally just pop up without any introduction and we're supposed to give a damn about them. Not to mention, they don't have any distinct personalities. There's a frame where we see Astrotrain for about half a second in the finale. Why is he there? Why is that scene there? He doesn't DO anything!

I wasn't a big fan of Bumblebee getting dumped with this Alpha Trion garbage as a means to insert him into the Autobots. It's already weird enough that HE'S the brooding, self-serving Han Solo archetype, but to not follow through with an arc for him and instead force him into choosing a side based off of coincidence is just lazy. Granted, this all happens before Magnus's death, which I thought was treated pretty well up until that point. I liked that the Decepticons used his corpse to host their bioweapon or whatever. See, I don't think the writers of the show are smart enough of creative enough to give Shockwave interesting inventions. Both of his weapons against the Autobots were these "frequency bombs" that wipe out all Autobot life conveniently. Prime Shockwave created more interesting devices.

I feel like they could've expanded more on how the Autobots were an elite class before the Decepticons reversed the hierarchy. Then maybe we'd sympathize with the Autobots, but instead we're left wondering what kind of classist garbage the Autobots were up to before the war, and why Optimus is trying to preserve that system. Not that I'd care, considering Optimus is a dumbass in this show. Blatantly going into an obvious Decepticon traps off of "faith". The Autobots put way too much trust in this idiot, which is doubly annoying because we have to spend the whole season hearing Elita-One complain about Optimus' leadership but then somehow putting romance in between them.

I didn't like the fact that a lot of the cannon fodder in this series was reused models of either Ironhide, Sideswipe, Mirage, Hound, the Seekers, or Reflector. I feel like they were heavily restricted to using toys from the toyline and thus had to limit the number of models they could use for different characters. It made for pretty visually uninteresting battle sequences. I thought Jetfire was...alright, I guess. His "redemption" arc is a bit flat and, again, beat-for-beat. There's not a whole lot of depth to it I don't think. But he does, while he's in the Decepticons, make them feel more like a faction and less like "The Bad Guy Team".

But really, when it's Optimus, Elita, Jetfire, and Bumblebee that you're supposed to care about in this show, it leaves the cast a little hollow, especially because there's not much personality to grab onto any of them. Most of this has to do with the writing, but some of it is left to the voice direction and voice work. I never liked Jake Foushee's Optimus Prime, and while it's bareable for the most part in Siege, the moments when Optimus needs to show true emotion or anger, it sounds like Jake is physically struggling to not sound like a teenager. When Optimus needs to get that booming shout in, he sounds more like he's holding back so as to not shout so loud that he wakes his mother. And, as everyone else has mentioned, they all talk so slow all the time. But, like I said, Megatron and Starscream are performed very well, as is Elita & Wheeljack (although, what was the point of him swearing in the first episode? Not that I'm upset, I was welcome to it, but there's literally no other point in the series where a character swears).

I mean...I know this was a little all-over the place, but I wasn't impressed with Siege overall, and in six episodes it's amazing how much ground there was to cover. I'm even leaving a few complaints out just because I don't think they're essential to vocalize. But I will say, there's potential in what Siege accomplished for Earthrise to really save the show. Thus, I'll stick around for part two and maybe three. For now I'm just going to remember Siege as a kickass toyline.

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Also, there is a bit I don't get. Optimus doesn't have a mouth in Bumblebee, I see no reason why there would be such scrutiny for matching someone else's acting and how long a vowel is performed. I am sure Cullen isn't lieing about any of it, I just don't get the point to go out of one's way like that, especially when you could have the expert on the character give you his best work and feel better about it. Even when Jon decribes it, his voice is more of a placeholder, not something to model a performance on.

And just to reiterate, Optimus doesn't show his mouth

His mouthplate still moves in the movie.

I HIGHLY doubt anyone would have noticed a milisecond change in how long a vowel is kept.

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Also, there is a bit I don't get. Optimus doesn't have a mouth in Bumblebee, I see no reason why there would be such scrutiny for matching someone else's acting and how long a vowel is performed. I am sure Cullen isn't lieing about any of it, I just don't get the point to go out of one's way like that, especially when you could have the expert on the character give you his best work and feel better about it. Even when Jon decribes it, his voice is more of a placeholder, not something to model a performance on.

And just to reiterate, Optimus doesn't show his mouth

His mouthplate still moves in the movie.

I HIGHLY doubt anyone would have noticed a milisecond change in how long a vowel is kept.

I'm just sayin' that that's what bugged Cullen so much to insult Jon the way he did.

I can't help but laugh when this series is referred to as a "season." It's 6 **** episodes. If they took off the credits and intro on 5 of them and put it all together, they could have a 2-hour movie. This isn't a "season," it's a miniseries.

Which brings me to my next gripe: why so short? Is it production costs? Did Hasbro not have faith in its own product? Maybe if it does well, the next "seadon" will be longer, say, 10 episodes? I mean if the next installment is Earthrise, it should be longer.

And that brings me to other questions: the panels I watched and some stuff I read claimed that this can be considered a prequel to the G1 cartoon. If that's the case, what will Earthrise be about? Are they going to just rehash G1?

Rodimus Prime wrote:I can't help but laugh when this series is referred to as a "season." It's 6 **** episodes. If they took off the credits and intro on 5 of them and put it all together, they could have a 2-hour movie. This isn't a "season," it's a miniseries.

Even mini-series get seasons. Look at Stranger Things.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I can't help but laugh when this series is referred to as a "season." It's 6 **** episodes. If they took off the credits and intro on 5 of them and put it all together, they could have a 2-hour movie. This isn't a "season," it's a miniseries.

Even mini-series get seasons. Look at Stranger Things.

Isn't that show longer than 6 episodes in each of its "seasons?" And I always thought a show was either a miniseries or a regular series which had seasons.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I can't help but laugh when this series is referred to as a "season." It's 6 **** episodes. If they took off the credits and intro on 5 of them and put it all together, they could have a 2-hour movie. This isn't a "season," it's a miniseries.

Even mini-series get seasons. Look at Stranger Things.

Isn't that show longer than 6 episodes in each of its "seasons?" And I always thought a show was either a miniseries or a regular series which had seasons.

Stranger Things has three seasons, with the first having only eight episodes, the second having nine, and the third having eight again. And all three have their own beginning, middle, and finale-styled end, and even take place apart from each other as though much time has passed between them, rather than their simply being one 25-episode season split into three parts.

Further evidence of this is the fact that each season was also produced in different years from each other, with season 3 even coming two years after season 2. Yet, all three are as short in episode count as they are, being seasons of a mini-series rather than a full-length series.

It's simply something that Netflix does for a lot of its shows, ordering short-length seasons for certain shows rather than full-length seasons.

Okay I'm just used to seasons meaning exactly that, a whole season of episodes, lasting at least 3 months. Anyway, I do think there is plenty of material involving these characters and history, we could have gotten a lot longer story. I guess Hasbro just didn't want to pay for it.

To me, Jetfire's entire thing just came across as Discount Dinobot. No doubt another idea that the writers thought it would be easy to "adapt" for any character. It falls completely flat. Even the reveal was a head scratcher. Why does Megatron suddenly care about one single Seeker [Skywarp] that much? The Seekers are effectively acceptable losses/cannon fodder up until that point. Whereas the one in question, who had done Nothing of note and had no characterisation whatsoever, meant something

As far as people persisting with this idea of WFC being a prequel to Sunbow/Marvel. This had literally none of those seeds planted or story beats to follow. Earthrise will likely show that remark to be completely misleading and irrelevant, as noted a few pages ago.

Are you talking about fans persisting? Because the only ones I saw and heard talking about it were writers and producers of the show on the panels posted on previous pages here. I do agree, there was nothing concrete to connect Siege to the G1 cartoon, and few details that were even circumstantial. It had a more solid connection to the IDW continuity than anything else. And forget about Marvel, they need to step up their writing game if they want any connection to that.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Are you talking about fans persisting? Because the only ones I saw and heard talking about it were writers and producers of the show on the panels posted on previous pages here. I do agree, there was nothing concrete to connect Siege to the G1 cartoon from '84, and little details that were even circumstantial. It had a more solid connection to the IDW continuity than anything else. And forget about Marvel, they need to step up their writing game if they want any connection to that.

The fans and marketing types have been throwing the word "prequel" around. Which actually makes zero sense in trying to link this show to anything that has come before. The big elephant in the room that shoots that down being who left Cybertron and who didn't.

The link to IDWverse (2.0) would certainly explain the amount of talking heads and tiresome walking scenes though. As well as the creepy Megatron pout.

The links to IDW 2 don't even make sense to be fair as nothing matches up. Its a prequel to a G1 styled universe is the best you can say. Just for some fans, that's s loaded statement as their mind immediately jumps to one G1 in particular on hearing that. If the producers and makers really wanted this to link to the Sunbow cartoon...they probably should have watched it again first.

I could see that many of us were disappointed with this. What bothers me is the hubris that comes from producers and writers that cherry pick what they think would appease fans.

I did an hour long review discussing characterization and everything wrong with it. I would love to know what you folks think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6me2rBIV7ps&t=5s

OMFG, I now understand what the spoiler was for that Magnus toy. The grey is not battle damage, it's him losing colour. Because he was murdered. That's the spoiler.

william-james88 wrote:OMFG, I now understand what the spoiler was for that Magnus toy. The grey is not battle damage, it's him losing colour. Because he was murdered. That's the spoiler.

Yep, I realized that as well as soon as I saw his shoulders get destroyed during his interrogation. I remembered them being gray. So would that make that figure more desirable now that we know it represents dead Magnus, like Alternate Universe Prime does dead Prime?

william-james88 wrote:OMFG, I now understand what the spoiler was for that Magnus toy. The grey is not battle damage, it's him losing colour. Because he was murdered. That's the spoiler.

Yeah, I knew that day 1 when the toy came out . I'm more interested in the 2nd spoiler box since Siege is over, not much can be spoiled I would think....Also the black play doh served no purpose

Lastly sorry about the confusion a few pages ago, at work, sometimes content is filtered out, I couldn't even see the video I was quoting you on until looked at my phone

metalogan wrote:I could see that many of us were disappointed with this. What bothers me is the hubris that comes from producers and writers that cherry pick what they think would appease fans.

I did an hour long review discussing characterization and everything wrong with it. I would love to know what you folks think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6me2rBIV7ps&t=5s

Now I'm just gonna say that with this fanbase and how fickle it is, any creators making any stories for this franchise are going to have to cherry pick stuff when it comes to references and such because of things like "We want so and so character or thing in the show, etc" unless the creators go 100 percent creative with the show which is unlikely to be allowed with the Evergreen idea, not to mention Siege trying to appeal to G1 fans or whatever is a valid thing because it works and I've seen quite a few people on social media praising the show.

It's not like the show people chose to cherry pick, they had to go with the characters that exist in the toyline and present a story on Cybertron, this is an adaptation of a toyline not the other way around.

Lore Keeper wrote:When I first read the spoiler inside the box, I thought it had to be a red herring. I thought there was no way they'd kill off Ultra Magnus so early into the story because that would be stupid! Boy, do I wish I had been right...

Because big name characters should never die because their big name characters.

There isn't a reason Ultra Magnus should of lived for longer besides "I wanted him to"

It wasn't a stupid random death with no purpose like Moonracer (that was an actual terrible death), it was a death scene with a purpose and it had consequences, this wasn't a random "shock factor" death just for the sake of it.

If there is only a few things the show got right this was one of them, same with Impactor's death.