This page contains affiliate links. We may earn commissions when readers interact with or purchase items through these links. For more information, see our affiliate disclosures here.

Patent

Do you love your new Hercules set? Can't get enough of FansProject's items? Upset that you bought a knock off when you thought you were getting an original? Use this forum to tell everyone your thoughts about unlicensed and knock off TF products.

Patent

Postby mariahdevans » Fri May 27, 2011 8:30 pm

Doesn't the creator of Transformers toys have a patent that would protect other companies from creating similar toys? Sometimes these knock offs are really similar in design to the Transformers toys. These companies would be out of business if they couldn't come up with original designs and potential buyers wouldn't have to worry about getting a knock off.

______________________________________________________________________________________________
I love robot pups like the Zhu Zhu Puppies. I love pixar movies.
Last edited by mariahdevans on Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
mariahdevans
Mini-Con
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 8:23 pm
Buy from mariahdevans on eBay

Re: Patent

Postby Mkall » Sat May 28, 2011 7:39 am

Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
Yes they do. Some groups (I don't use the term company as the term implies something that most 3rd parties aren't) get around it by making similar-but-not-exact copies of figures and call them different things.

Others do blatant ripoffs but are based in China where no one can easily get to them.

In the long run though they all market to collectors which still buy Hasbro's/Takara's stuff anyways, so their profit margins are probably not too affected by the deal.
Image

Discord: Mkall#0376

My Collection! Updated Oct 21, 2022
Mkall
God Of Transformers
Posts: 11154
News Credits: 402
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 6:50 pm
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 6
Endurance: 6
Rank: 8
Courage: 8
Firepower: 6
Skill: 10

Re: Patent

Postby Motorthing » Sat May 28, 2011 10:43 am

Motto: "I've said it before and I'll say it again....Freedom's fine as long as you have a Honkin' Big Gun pointing at the Bad Guys"
Weapon: Ion Particle Blaster
Anyone can make transforming Robot toys - you just can't call them Transformers. Or use HasTak designs, names and concepts.

There is no patent wide enough to blanket an entire concept or Product field, just specific ones attached to branded items. That's why there are more than one Car Company in the world - but only one that's allowed to call them Fords.

Some 3rd Party Companies seem to be smart enough to see this and skirt round the whole IP Issue, others like iGear don't. If Hasbro/Tak ever got serious about going after them these are the types of Companies they would have a realistic prospect of shutting down - not my beloved Fansproject.....thank the Maker.
FansProject is the right of all sentient beings
User avatar
Motorthing
Vehicon
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:30 am
Location: London
Buy from Motorthing on eBay
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 4
Endurance: 7
Rank: 4
Courage: 8
Firepower: 9
Skill: 6

Re: Patent

Postby TheBigToyAuction » Sat May 28, 2011 3:13 pm

Weapon: Cerebro-Shell Launcher
mariahdevans wrote:Doesn't the creator of Transformers toys have a patent that would protect other companies from creating similar toys? Sometimes these knock offs are really similar in design to the Transformers toys. These companies would be out of business if they couldn't come up with original designs and potential buyers wouldn't have to worry about getting a knock off.


With the earlier stuff, like G1 in particular, the patents actually do the opposite.

In the US, at least, products (as opposed to other types of art, like books, movies, or music) are considered to enter into the public domain upon first sale. If I make a new, unique widget and sell that widget, I've made the world a better place by entering it into the public domain where anyone can buy it from me and use it, or reverse engineer it and make their own.

Now, obviously, if I've spent $100,000 to do the R&D and bring this to market, this seems pretty unfair, and when the guy down the street puts $5,000 into copying my product and selling it cheaper than mine, I'm unlikely to ever put effort into developing another product, and others are likely to follow suit, so it stifles innovation by the little guy.

To combat this, early its history, the US government decided to offer up patents to inventors to make the business of inventing more sustainable. What this does is grant the original developer of the product a *limited* monopoly right over the product for a short period (7, 11, 13 years, etc. based on the type of product) as an incentive to invest in innovation. After that, it's right back into the public domain where anyone can copy, modify, or improve upon it, thus adding more innovation to the world and creating an even better place.

Now, back to transformers, what this means is that not only have the original patents for G1 and some later series long since expired, the patent records are all on file and exist as blue prints for anyone to re-create their own, if they were so inclined. It is arguable that anyone that wanted to take those original G1 patents, upsize them as "masterpiece" figures, and improve upon the articulation and detail of the prior art would be well within their rights to do so.

What HasTak *may* own, however, is the character likeness rights under and names under copyright and trademark laws which are different beasts altogether. They *may* be able to claim that in addition to the actual design of G1 Optimus, e.g, that his look and color scheme is such an iconic part of the character that they reserve trade rights over that as well. Of course, everytime they tinker with that look - add flames for the movie, take away his mouthpiece, recolor him as Nemesis Prime, turn him into a monkey, etc, they weaken that argument.

So, can a third party make a Masterpiece Bumblebee based on G1 blueprints and called something different? Probably. And since there's already plenty of prior art, such as Bandai's Bugbite, they're probably even safer, especially if they don't use his horns, use a color different than yellow and don't make him *too* closely resemble a Bug so as not to step on VW's rights.

Anyway, I'm not sure why that just went on as long as it did, but in a long-winded roundabout answer to your question. The original expired patents, not only don't protect Hasbro much, they hand them the blueprints to reproduce, modify, and expand upon them with relative ease.

That's not to say they can't be sued, since anyone can sue anyone for anything. It just means that in a jury trial, with competent lawyers, they would likely not prevail, and would stand to lose quite a lot in terms of Money, Goodwill, and potential further loss of rights be reopening and re-examining their patents like what happened with their patent disupte over Magic: The Gathering a few years back.
Check out TheBigToyAuction.com - All the Action Figures, Modern Toys,and Collectilbes YOU WANT in an exciting new Live Auction Event!! Get Updates, Reminders and Catalogs about TheBigToyAuction.com by signing up for our email list!
Image
User avatar
TheBigToyAuction
Micromaster
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:27 am
Location: Christmas City, PA
Strength: 5
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 3
Endurance: 8
Rank: 1
Courage: 5
Firepower: 5
Skill: 8

Re: Patent

Postby Dead Metal » Sat May 28, 2011 5:12 pm

Motto: "Don't do drugs, beer's cheaper anyway!"
TheBigToyAuction wrote:
mariahdevans wrote:Doesn't the creator of Transformers toys have a patent that would protect other companies from creating similar toys? Sometimes these knock offs are really similar in design to the Transformers toys. These companies would be out of business if they couldn't come up with original designs and potential buyers wouldn't have to worry about getting a knock off.


With the earlier stuff, like G1 in particular, the patents actually do the opposite.

In the US, at least, products (as opposed to other types of art, like books, movies, or music) are considered to enter into the public domain upon first sale. If I make a new, unique widget and sell that widget, I've made the world a better place by entering it into the public domain where anyone can buy it from me and use it, or reverse engineer it and make their own.

Now, obviously, if I've spent $100,000 to do the R&D and bring this to market, this seems pretty unfair, and when the guy down the street puts $5,000 into copying my product and selling it cheaper than mine, I'm unlikely to ever put effort into developing another product, and others are likely to follow suit, so it stifles innovation by the little guy.

To combat this, early its history, the US government decided to offer up patents to inventors to make the business of inventing more sustainable. What this does is grant the original developer of the product a *limited* monopoly right over the product for a short period (7, 11, 13 years, etc. based on the type of product) as an incentive to invest in innovation. After that, it's right back into the public domain where anyone can copy, modify, or improve upon it, thus adding more innovation to the world and creating an even better place.

Now, back to transformers, what this means is that not only have the original patents for G1 and some later series long since expired, the patent records are all on file and exist as blue prints for anyone to re-create their own, if they were so inclined. It is arguable that anyone that wanted to take those original G1 patents, upsize them as "masterpiece" figures, and improve upon the articulation and detail of the prior art would be well within their rights to do so.

What HasTak *may* own, however, is the character likeness rights under and names under copyright and trademark laws which are different beasts altogether. They *may* be able to claim that in addition to the actual design of G1 Optimus, e.g, that his look and color scheme is such an iconic part of the character that they reserve trade rights over that as well. Of course, everytime they tinker with that look - add flames for the movie, take away his mouthpiece, recolor him as Nemesis Prime, turn him into a monkey, etc, they weaken that argument.

So, can a third party make a Masterpiece Bumblebee based on G1 blueprints and called something different? Probably. And since there's already plenty of prior art, such as Bandai's Bugbite, they're probably even safer, especially if they don't use his horns, use a color different than yellow and don't make him *too* closely resemble a Bug so as not to step on VW's rights.

Anyway, I'm not sure why that just went on as long as it did, but in a long-winded roundabout answer to your question. The original expired patents, not only don't protect Hasbro much, they hand them the blueprints to reproduce, modify, and expand upon them with relative ease.

That's not to say they can't be sued, since anyone can sue anyone for anything. It just means that in a jury trial, with competent lawyers, they would likely not prevail, and would stand to lose quite a lot in terms of Money, Goodwill, and potential further loss of rights be reopening and re-examining their patents like what happened with their patent disupte over Magic: The Gathering a few years back.

No sorry, that's not entirely correct. While the patents may be expired, Hasbro and Takara own the copyright on the robot-modes and alt-modes of those toys plus the likenesses.
The only thing someone can legally reproduce based on those patents are the transformation schemes, since those are the main thing of the patent. So you can make a toy that transforms exactly like G1 Prime, but it's not allowed to look like Prime in neither robot nor alt. And this is just based on the US situation, I'm pretty sure Takara still has their original Japanese patents.
[img]
https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=6667ACA9
[/img]


Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?

Blurrz wrote:10/10

Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
User avatar
Dead Metal
God Of Transformers
Posts: 13914
News Credits: 767
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 5:18 am

Re: Patent

Postby craggy » Sat May 28, 2011 7:26 pm

I'm fairly confident in saying that were I to make a toy that looked exactly like G1 Sunstreaker's car mode, Hasbro would not be the company whose likeness rights I would be infringing.
assembling a Neo-G1/TF:TM cast. Please PM if you have (or know of) the following at a reasonable price: Classics or Henkei Astrotrain, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, or 3rd Party iGear Ratchet and Ironhide.
Also looking for Universe Repugnus and Overbite, Frostbite and Longhorn and any Webdiver toys.
craggy
Faction Commander
Posts: 4773
News Credits: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:07 pm


Return to Unlicensed and KO Transformers Toys

Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit our store on eBay
These are affiliate links. We may earn commissions when you purchase items or services through these links.
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN & SCOOBY-DOO MYSTERIES #4 DC Comics 2024 0224DC158 (A/CA) Huang"
BATMAN & SCOOBY-DO ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN #142 Cvr C DC Comics 2024 1223DC003 142C (CA) Melnikov (W) Zdarsky"
BATMAN #142 Cvr C ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DETECTIVE COMICS #1071 Cvr A DC Comics 2023 0223DC047 1071A (CA) Cagle"
DETECTIVE COMICS # ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Batman Santa Claus SILENT KNIGHT #1 Cvr F 1:50 DC Comics 0923DC051 1F (CA) Ra"
Batman Santa Claus ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN & SCOOBY-DOO MYSTERIES #10 DC Comics 0523DC252 (A/CA) Brizuela (W) Cohen"
BATMAN & SCOOBY-DO ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SUPERMAN #5 Cvr D Pride DC Comics 2023 0423DC045 5D (W) Williamson (CA) Forbes"
SUPERMAN #5 Cvr D ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN #5 Facsimile Cvr A DC Comics 2023 ptg 0923DC268 5A (CA) Kane (W) Finger"
BATMAN #5 Facsimil ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SUPERMAN #3 Cvr D DC Comics 2023 0223DC022 3D (W) Williamson (CA) Lenoble"
SUPERMAN #3 Cvr D ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN AND ROBIN AND HOWARD #3 DC Comics 2024 0324DC129 (W/A/CA) Brown"
NEW!
BATMAN AND ROBIN A ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN & SCOOBY-DOO MYSTERIES #1 DC Comics 2024 1023DC205 (CA) Brizuela"
BATMAN & SCOOBY-DO ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN #137 Cvr G 1:50 DC Comics 2023 0723DC022 137G (W) Zdarsky (CA) Quesada"
BATMAN #137 Cvr G ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN SPAWN #1 Cvr T DC Image Comics 2022 AUG228427 1T (CA) McFarlane"
BATMAN SPAWN #1 Cv ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Wonder Woman COME BACK TO ME #2 (of 6) Variant DC Comics 2019 JUN190556"
Wonder Woman COME ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BATMAN #428 Robin Lives 2nd ptg Cvr A DC Comics 2024 1023DC997 (CA) Mignola"
BATMAN #428 Robin ...
* Price and quantities subject to change. Shipping costs, taxes and other fees not included in cost shown. Refer to listing for current price and availability.
Find the items above and thousands more at the Seibertron Store on eBay
Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #351 - Ask Your Dad
Twincast / Podcast #351:
"Ask Your Dad"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Saturday, June 1st, 2024

Featured Products on Amazon.com

These are affiliate links. We may earn commissions when you purchase items or services through these links.
Buy "Transformers Titans Return Grotusque and Scorponok Deluxe Action Figure Exclusive Set" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Titans Return Arcee Action Figure Set" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Legends Class Roadtrap" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee Movie Toys, Energon Igniters Nitro Bumblebee Action Figure - Included Core Powers Driving Action - Toys for Kids 6 and Up, 7-inch" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Terrorcon Cutthroat" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Voyager Class Elita-1" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Evolution Nemesis Prime (Amazon Exclusive)" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Terrorcon Blot" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 02 Deluxe Class Movie 3 Decepticon Stinger" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Attacker 15 Peterman Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee -- Energon Igniters Speed Series Barricade" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Titans Return Overlord Decepticon Figure" on AMAZON