The Energon Pub

by **Megs for pres** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:25 pm

So I was thinking about the leadership roles that each top autobot is supposed to play. After prime it seems to be ironhide, followed by jazz and thats about it.
I have watched all the toons and cant for the life of me figure out why people think prowl is secondish in command. Im sure it comes from somewhere but it escapes me.
Was it mentioned in his tech specs or in the comics perhaps?
Personally I love prowl. He is top five in my faves for sure but I cannot find a single scene where he assumes command of the autobots in the absence of optimus.
Can anyone shed a bit of light on this for me?
Thanks guys n gals!

by **Son of Carl** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:38 pm

I believe that Prowl was the Autobots' tactician.

by **Megs for pres** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:54 pm

Raccon wrote:I believe that Prowl was the Autobots' tactician.

Yes prowl was tatics. I have read neumerous times though that he was also second in command. Secondish rather along with jazz and ironhide.
I have seen several instances where ironhide has taken command of the autobots when prime was indisposed and even a few where jazz has done the same, but prowl, although I.M.O. Totally capable and cool enough to have the second in command position has never displayed authority on that level in the toons.
At least not that I saw. So do you know why it is said?

News Credits: 15 · by **PrymeStriker** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:00 pm

Prowl was listed as (a) sub-commander of Optimus Prime in the Transformers: The Ultimate Guide book, I believe. He was, however, Sentinel Prime's lieutenant before command switched to Optimus. More info here.

But does this really belong in the Transformers Toys Forum? Doesn't have much to do with toys, and fits better in the Transformers General Discussion or the Transformers Cartoons & Comics Forums.

by **Sinnertwin** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:00 pm

IIRC, Prowl was 9/10 for rank on his tech specs, while Jazz scored 8/10, which could explain why he's regarded as the 2iC. I can't remember if he did assume leadership at all in the cartoon or comics TBH.

by **Megs for pres** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:04 am

oh I read upon prowl in the link provided by prime stryker above and as I thought, There is plenty reason to believe he is a second in command.
It is infact stated as being so. So, theres my answer! thanks again folks.
Hopefully one day soon, as a result of all the answers I have obtained from fellow members as of late, I will be able to answer a question instead of always being the one to ask one.

News Credits: 3 · by **Tresob** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:24 pm

As a side note, some iterations of Transformers also suggest that Optimus Prime is only a military commander (his G1 Tech Spec's function is "Commander") of the Autobot forces, as opposed to the head honcho of the Autobots as a whole. The original Marvel continuity, for instance, initially had Prime reporting to a council of elders, and I believe he also did so in War Within.

This differentiated him from Megatron, whose function was Leader -- implying that he was the sole authority for all Decepticons.

In the Bayverse movie prequel comic, Optimus and Megatron are depicted as two consuls over Cybertron -- more or less following a classical Roman structure of having two military leaders who share power and work alongside a senate. Or something like that. I'm sure someone who follows the comics more closely could clarify those points.

by **Megs for pres** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:06 pm

Interesting. Rodimus and galvatron also were listed as commanders in their tech specs.

News Credits: 15 · by **PrymeStriker** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:19 pm

Megs for pres wrote:Interesting. Rodimus and galvatron also were listed as commanders in their tech specs.

They were also commanders for their respective factions in the show. Commander = Leader. Rodimus succeeding Optimus Prime and Galvatron...being Megatron reformatted by Unicron.

by **Megs for pres** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:31 pm

PrymeStriker wrote:
Megs for pres wrote:Interesting. Rodimus and galvatron also were listed as commanders in their tech specs.

They were also commanders for their respective factions in the show. Commander = Leader. Rodimus succeeding Optimus Prime and Galvatron...being Megatron reformatted by Unicron.

I know. I was responding to tresobs post a few above mine though.
He states that he was supprised to see optiums labeled as a commander on his tech specs while megs was refered to as an actual leader, leading you to believe that prime was perhaps not the tippy top dog for the autobots.
So galvatron actually took a demotion from a "leader" as megs to a "commander" as galvie.
It seems like I might have read somewhere that both rodimus and galvie may have been called "commanders" instead of "leaders" on their tech specs to keep the secret of the movie. The toys were apparently released before the movie and hasbro didnt want it to leak out.
I think their in depth tech specs descriptions are even vague enough that you could interpret that it explained them as leaders after watching the movie, but could take a different meaning from it had you not seen the movie yet.
If I remember right galvies says "his strength rivals megs and he will do anything to lead the decepticons" or some such thing. Im not sure what ole rodimuses says but I suspect it is vague as well.

News Credits: 3 · by **Tresob** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:58 pm

Rodimus was technically a "Protector," not a leader or commander (usually a title given to a political leader who is avoiding the term "king"). I believe Galvatron was listed as a "City Commander"...the same title as Ultra Magnus. (Remember, some of the iterations of Transformers did not have Galvatron as a reformatted Megatron. I always assumed the "City" in their titles referred to Trypticon and Metroplex...think Scramble City.)

My argument that Commander is not the same as Leader comes from the first issue of Marvel's comic in which Optimus is depicted as taking orders from an Autobot Council.

News Credits: 15 · by **PrymeStriker** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:04 pm

Tresob wrote:Commander is not the same as Leader

Yeah, it pretty much does.

TFWiki wrote:Decepticon commander, a title for the leader of the Decepticons.

TFWiki wrote:Autobot commander, a catch all term for the leader of the Autobots.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Commander

News Credits: 3 · by **Tresob** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:44 pm

Well, here's my case :-B

:

Exhibit A: From Marvel Issue One
"But from Iacon, greatest of the city-states, there came a leader to inspire the Autobots in their hour of deadliest peril...Optimus Prime!"

"Of all the Autobots, only he, wise and powerful beyond understanding, was able to unite the scattered warriors into a fully effective fighting force."

This suggests that the Autobots were governed by a system of city-states, like ancient Greece...which implies that there would have been different leaders for each city state. I certainly concede that it uses the language of leader, but this sounds more like a classical "tyrant" -- which originally meant only a temporary military leader appointed during times of distress. (Later, tyrant took on the less flattering meaning that we think of today.)

Exhibit B: More to my point is this panel:
http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/pp63/tresobyr/3D%20Models/opnotincharge_zps2c3d4bc2.png

The Autobots have a council of elders...one of whom appears to sit on a throne, and whom Optimus addresses as "Sire" (which can mean Lord, Father, or Elder...a "title of rank"). That panel does not seem to depict Optimus as the highest ranking Autobot, but rather as the highest ranking military leader.

Megatron calls no one "Sire."

Other versions of Transformers (and I'd concede later issues) depict Optimus differently, and I think the general impression is that Optimus is solely in charge.

I'm just making the case that looking at the original tech specs and the first Marvel comic, Optimus's authority over the Autobots could be reasonably construed as limited...certainly more limited than Megatron's.

by **Shadowstream** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:06 am

First of all: Wrong forum... unless you were intent to talk about the made hierarchy within our own collections
Second:

Tresob wrote:I'm just making the case that looking at the original tech specs and the first Marvel comic, Optimus's authority over the Autobots could be reasonably construed as limited...certainly more limited than Megatron's.

From your evidence I can say you make a good argument for the marvel comics setup, but that's not a catch all set up for those series that have come and gone since then.

by **Megs for pres** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:23 pm

Incase you were wondering, I have prowel in the very front of optimus. In my collection he is certainly #2

News Credits: 3 · by **Tresob** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:47 pm

And if you look very closely at Jetfire's Tech Spec, he's a 10 as well (slightly above it, actually, but who wants to get picky?).

I'm assuming this relates to why International toy comic had Jetfire as leader of the Autobots.

So high-ranking, and yet he never seemed to get his dues...

by **Megs for pres** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:32 pm

Tresob wrote:And if you look very closely at Jetfire's Tech Spec, he's a 10 as well (slightly above it, actually, but who wants to get picky?).

I'm assuming this relates to why International toy comic had Jetfire as leader of the Autobots.

So high-ranking, and yet he never seemed to get his dues...

Oh I didnt know ole pacifist jet fire had a 10 rank. I quite love his FOC reindition and would love a figure.

by **Sinnertwin** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:21 am

Tech specs are a funny thing indeed; IIRC
Hot Rod / Rodimus 10. They toned it down for his TM release, his specs are rdiculous.
Magnus 8
I can see why Magnus left him to crash and burn on Quintessa. :twisted:

Also, just out of curiosity, didnt they use the terms commander etc so the kids wouldnt catch on that there was a leadership change before the movie came out? I thought that i read that somewhere :-?

by **Megs for pres** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:36 pm

Sinnertwin wrote:Tech specs are a funny thing indeed; IIRC
Hot Rod / Rodimus 10. They toned it down for his TM release, his specs are rdiculous.
Magnus 8
I can see why Magnus left him to crash and burn on Quintessa.
Also, just out of curiosity, didnt they use the terms commander etc so the kids wouldnt catch on that there was a leadership change before the movie came out? I thought that i read that somewhere

I thought I read that somewhere too twin. They also wrote vague biographies for rod and galvie. Presumably to keep the secret.

News Credits: 4 · by **craggy** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:28 pm

Prowl has always done the job, whilst Prime, Grimlock, Ironhide, Jazz, etc are off getting killed or copied onto floppy discs or what have you. Tactician might have been his rank or function, but his actions should point to him being a capable leader. A dick, sure, but a leader nonetheless. In the recent IDW comics, Bumblebee was the official leader of the Autobots, but it was Prowl who made stuff happen.

edit: weren't the Galvatron (and Ultra Magnus) toys simply labelled City Commander on their packaging?

by **Megs for pres** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:29 pm

Yup. Magnus and galvie are both labled city commanders. IDK what rodimus is labled...

News Credits: 4 · by **craggy** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:34 pm

Megs for pres wrote:IDK what rodimus is labled...

dirty team-killer?

by **Megs for pres** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:35 pm

LOL
Or how about sneaky co conspiriter and murderer of optimus? ALA the 80s animated movie that is. "A too brutis er...hotrod?"
I always secretly thought as a child that hot rod got in primes line of fire on purpose so that he could see megs kill prime off and he would be free to pursue the matrix. LOL!!

by **Sinnertwin** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:24 pm

Megs for pres wrote:Yup. Magnus and galvie are both labled city commanders. IDK what rodimus is labled...

Autobot Protector.

by **Megs for pres** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:11 am

Sinnertwin wrote:
Megs for pres wrote:Yup. Magnus and galvie are both labled city commanders. IDK what rodimus is labled...

Autobot Protector.

Oh wow! I didnt know that. One can see how theyre trying to wiggle around their true title while still having it say something that COULD mean leader after the movie had revealed its secrets.
So Then what was hotrods official title? heroic wreckloose?
He was voiced by brat pack member jud nelson who played john bender in the breakfast club.

KUP: "You wanna see something funny? go visit hot rod in a few years. What a looser!"
HOTROD:" LOL If you only knew how wrong you were."

KUP: "EVERYTHINGS A JOKE TO YOU! What if your house....no what if your DOPE waqs on fire?"

Hotrod: "Impossible sir. Its in wheelies underwear."