The Energon Pub

Flame, I completely sympathize with your situation. However, putting a silver lining on a dark cloud, atleast since they have been made, you might be able to get them at some point in the future when things stablize for you. Definately beats them not being made. (See Reissue Thrust and Ramjet).

However, like everyone else, I too would have preferred that hs set be cheaper, or better yet, on Target's shelves. I would imagine everyone agrees on that.

Bonger wrote:Flame, I completely sympathize with your situation. However, putting a silver lining on a dark cloud, atleast since they have been made, you might be able to get them at some point in the future when things stablize for you. Definately beats them not being made. (See Reissue Thrust and Ramjet).

However, like everyone else, I too would have preferred that hs set be cheaper, or better yet, on Target's shelves. I would imagine everyone agrees on that.

I would imagine that, too. Everyone likes things to be cheaper, even those of us with more money than others.

MagnusPrimal wrote:I have honestly never understood this sentiment. Why should I be glad that something I really wanted was made, but then priced far above the price I'm willing to pay, simply because it's an exclusive? How does that make sense for me?

Important point there. Beyond what you're willing to pay.

I smpathize with any and all who can't make it, due to distance, hardship, or whatever. I also understand that we're all in varying degrees of financial stability. You can't blame someone for being disappointed that their car/home/childcare expenses outweigh the opportunity to acuqire rare and sought after figures.

But a simple unwillingness to pay? No sympathy.

No one feels bad for me because I can't afford a BMW at the moment. No car dealer is going to turn that car into a $20,000 purchase just because it would be nice for everyone to have one.

You have a PS3 yet? Maybe not due to it being priced out of the market range of most gamers? Try calling Sony and asking them for a $500 sympathy discount.

No seriously, because it won't happen.

Crumplezone wrote:It seems that Master Collector has turned BotCon into a cash cow that is designed to get as much money from Collectors as possible, and from the attitude of a lot of people that say I'm going can't wait tuff on the rest. You are to blind to not see this. I know most of the western world are going down the consumerist path but I find this incredably rediculas.

Good, because it turns out that the BotCons run previously to Master Collector taking over were financial disasters.

All most of us that are dispondent have said is we find this unfair and have given good reasons on the most part about how it would still have been practical for, if not a full release, a limited release of these figures.

Hasbro employs many people with degrees in accounting, production marketing, fiscal anaylsis, and economics. They also run focus groups, test markets, and have about 20 years of experience in Transformers.

But it seems that you and some armchair production managers know better?

I think not.

We are a community of fans we have the right of freedom of speech in most of our Countries. More over this site is in a Country that that right is more important than any other, and for people to say thats life get over it and stop bitching is very offensive.

Fortunately, that right to free speech allows me to speak my mind too, even if what I have to say ends up being offensive.

Counterpunch wrote:Fortunately, that right to free speech allows me to speak my mind too, even if what I have to say ends up being offensive.

It's why we keep you around.
That and the pics you post are always fun.

Counterpunch wrote:Hasbro employs many people with degrees in accounting, production marketing, fiscal anaylsis, and economics. They also run focus groups, test markets, and have about 20 years of experience in Transformers.

This is true. They do know what they're doing.

Burn wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Fortunately, that right to free speech allows me to speak my mind too, even if what I have to say ends up being offensive.

It's why we keep you around.
That and the pics you post are always fun.

You should have been around for the AD forums.

There the pictures were both fun and offensive!

Crumplezone wrote:When BotCon started the exclusives were a bonus for going now it is just about charging as much money as possibly for a few figures that you would normally buy for 10-20 dollars. It seems by this thread a lot of people cannot see that. Has the reason you should be going to BotCon slipped away in this bid to get a few figures? or does nothing that a convention stands for past you by?

All most of us that are dispondent have said is we find this unfair and have given good reasons on the most part about how it would still have been practical for, if not a full release, a limited release of these figures.

In return we have had comments like stop whinning and get over it and don't be childish. Now whats more childish going to a convention just for a pack of toys or going to a convention for the reasons Conventions were started in the first place. I find comments like these to be very insulting. For a Mod to then quote that comment and to indorse it is rediculas.

Here's the thing, I am a TOY collector. I, and many others I know go to these conventions specifically for the toys. I really don't care much about autographs & voice actors...the panels I hit are always the toy related ones (Hasbro panel, and the prototypes & rarities ones. We all come to this hobby for different reasons and with different priorities. By your comparison I am childish for my reasons to be involved and attending?

Crumplezone wrote:We are a community of fans we have the right of freedom of speech in most of our Countries. More over this site is in a Country that that right is more important than any other, and for people to say thats life get over it and stop bitching is very offensive.

Now I oppologise if I have offended anybody for my thoughts on what I think a convention is all about. I however feel that a certain Mod of long standing needs to look at how he portrays himself on these boards and if he needs to take this ferver I await his PM.

I see it as no more offensive than the people that refuse to see that this is the ONLY way Hasbro was going to let these toys be released and sure railing against the powers that be and anybody else that will read the rants may feel productive, but it really is no different than a small child who's told "I'm sorry, but no". Making the analogy that I'm childish for supporting my hobby and attending just for the toys simply doesn't work, it has no real merit to tell me that the reasons I collect and attend are invalid, but the temper tantrum analogies are unfortunately dead on.

Heh, everyone can probably ignore my previous bellyaching from a few pages ago, since Ijust found out yesterday that threeorfour of my co-workers want to go to Botcon too, so I may wind up getting there after all. Joy!

Brakethrough wrote:Heh, everyone can probably ignore my previous bellyaching from a few pages ago, since Ijust found out yesterday that threeorfour of my co-workers want to go to Botcon too, so I may wind up getting there after all. Joy!

Thank you for the first laugh I've had in this thread for oh, I'd say about 16 1/2 pages.

Counterpunch wrote:

No one feels bad for me because I can't afford a BMW at the moment. No car dealer is going to turn that car into a $20,000 purchase just because it would be nice for everyone to have one.

I think that is a great point and a great way to look at it.

Sigh, we might not be able to go, or even get the toys we all thought we would, now or ever. But forget about it. If Hasbro etc don't respect you as a customer- or group of- then they don't deserve your money.

screw em. Go to the pub with mates and remember they are only lumps of plastic.

I might have fun learning how to kitbash properly anyway. And after I learn, the posibilities are endless!

Up until now I have been quiet on the issue. After some thought, I am ready to state my opinion.


There are certain realities complainers and supporters about this years Botcon exclusives must face.


1. Hasbro does not owe you anything. This company did not promise you a complete seeker set, or any other figure. The only promise that was made was that the set this year would be based on Classics. Truthfully, I would be disappointed if any of the figures were not popular G1 characters, since that was the one thing that was implied by the Club.


2. Nice things cost money. Oscar Schindler said it, and it applies here too. The cost of an item is irrelevant; it is a matter of value. If it is worth it to you, then you can have it if you are willing to pay the price. To me the set is worth it, so I'll buy it. It's my bag, baby! That is why I like eBay - it provides a widely acceptable marketplace for me or you to buy or sell things.


3. There are certain realities that must be faced. No amount of complaining will make a difference this year. The figures have been designed and are in production. The box art is finished. The set is coming, like it or not. Not everything Hasbro does has you or the adult collector in mind. I didn't like the decisions made about movie characters, but it is what it is. Same goes with the Botcon set. You either accept these things, or you don't but there is nothing you can do about it now. I suggest turning your frustration into support for continuing the Classics line. You can't affect the immediate future, but you might be able to make a difference in the far future.


4. Botcon, and conventions in general, mean different things to different people. Some go for the exclusive figures, some go for the opportunity to mingle with fans, and others go for the special opportunities like the panels and guest speakers. Whatever your motivation, we are all there for the experience. You might feel that a convention should be a certain way, but not everyone feels that way.


5. There is nothing wrong with making money. I often see a lot of hostility towards eBay sellers (often referred to as scalpers). I, for one, agree with the entrepreneurial spirit. I plan on buying a bagged set with the sole intention of reselling the figures individually on eBay. Money is my motivation. I am paying a lot of money to go, and I'm buying my own set. I need to recoup the cost and that is one way to do it. I'm also strongly considering buying a Primus package for my attending wife and 5 year old son, plus the bagged packages, with the sole intention of reselling them. Some may disagree with that on moral grounds and I believe in your entitlement to your opinion. However, I also feel that my small enterprise is helpful, not harmful to TF fans who otherwise would find it very difficult to find what they were looking for or too expensive to buy the whole set when they just wanted one figure. Consumerism is the way of the world and it is a good thing.



I have read many posts from both sides of the 2007 Botcon issue, many with good points. By sharing your views we get to know each other better. Sometimes we might disagree, but we are all entitled to our opinions as long as they coincide with the rules and will of this site and its creator and moderators. I feel like a member of this community and I appreciate the different viewpoints and characters that make up this family of fans and friends who are united by one factor - a love for Transformers. Cool!

Great points Lapse, and well said. I especially agree with # 3 and 5.

Lets do what we can to keep the Classics line going for as long as possible.

And ebay most certainly does facilitate aquiring figures I otherwise would never see, and also gives me the opportunity to recoup my costs through selling some of the items I come across, whehter it is a great deal in a store or some duplicates I pick up in a large lot.

Lord Crump wrote:Sigh, we might not be able to go, or even get the toys we all thought we would, now or ever. But forget about it. If Hasbro etc don't respect you as a customer- or group of- then they don't deserve your money.

screw em. Go to the pub with mates and remember they are only lumps of plastic.

I might have fun learning how to kitbash properly anyway. And after I learn, the posibilities are endless!

Don't forget HASBRO does not only deal with our fan base. They deal with GI Joe, and Star Wars as well. Imagine the craziness surrounding that particular fandom. We may be outdoing them as of late though, but their history shows them to be a pretty rabid bunch, so I imagine HASBRO has probably seen it all as far as collectors' complaints about toys.

I thought Counterpunch's car analogy was a very good comparison.

Okay, appropriate or not, our friend Allen Iverson even had something to say about this:

Allen Iverson wrote:
What are we talking about here man? Repaints?...man... Repaints. It's not new molds man, it's repaints.

...repaints...man


...repaints...

Sorry, my head was thinking this related to that old argument Allen Iverson had with Coach Brown...for some reason.

I still do feel badly over the seeming desire for this set, and the feelings that people are having toward each other.

Some great points have been made, and I am quite happy to see that the heated arguing has decreased quite a bit.

EDIT: Lapse of Reason, sorry to ruin your ending on a great positive well thought out comments by placing my dumb Allen Iverson thing in there. Great points that I wish I could have stated as succinctly.

Lapse Of Reason wrote:I feel like a member of this community and I appreciate the different viewpoints and characters that make up this family of fans and friends who are united by one factor - a love for Transformers. Cool!

I never have felt like a member of this community, and I'm no longer sure I really have a love for Transformers. I've been getting angrier and angrier over the decisions made since the TFCC started up, and that timing is only half coincidence. I have been giving serious though to giving up Transformers, because all the fun has been taken out of this by bad decisions like this one. This last one may very well be the one that does me in.

The fact that I've never felt like I actually have many friends in the fandom only means I don't have other attachments to consider in making that decision.

This threaxd is going no where and is turning into a general Hasbro bash fest. Enough is enough.

Ok, here is the deal, no more posts of this kind in this thread

1) Anti Hasbro
2) Being rude to others regardless if they are going or not
3) Just general bitching

We (the staff) have had enough.
From this point on any bitching or flaming threads will be split from this thread, locked and moved to our custom storage facility.

Cyber Bishop wrote:From this point on any bitching or flaming threads will be split from this thread, locked and moved to our custom storage facility.

I am from the EPA and I demand, you shut all of this down.

Cyber Bishop wrote:Ok, here is the deal, no more posts of this kind in this thread

2) Being rude to others

We (the staff) have had enough.

So have I. In every forum. Of every board. In the entire internet. I've been insulted three times on this board. Twice looking for help, and once stating a valid opinion. All three were met with insults. Even stooping to their level doesn't do any good. I'm never rude unless someone's rude first. To prevent "retaliation", how about banning posters who are rude first. Then, all that's left on the entire board are people who are kind and helpful to each other. If every board did this, these "people" would realize this is no way to conduct your life, and maybe they'd change for the better. And, if not, at least none of us (normally) decent people would never have to deal with them online ever again.




(Waits for more flaming, calling me an idiot, telling me I shouldn't hold my breath or that I'm asking too much and am just dreaming, suggesting I kill myself...)

Counterpunch wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:From this point on any bitching or flaming threads will be split from this thread, locked and moved to our custom storage facility.

I am from the EPA and I demand, you shut all of this down.

Can't do that..
This thread is a news linked item, is on the front page and those are not supposed to be locked.

Please let's keep this civil alright?

Before I say anything TENIME, let me tell you I don't wish ill fates on you. The problem is, banning people who are rude or unkind in a discussion like this would mean a very large percentage of the members would probably go bye-bye.

This is just a very sensitive topic, and people are getting very angry with the poor decision that's been made.

There is always a positive though.

Me, I am now planning to really get stuck in to kitbashing my own G1 figures, where before I was too worried it'd go bad a ruin my figures. I get exactly what I want, and I learn a new skill. How's that for a sweet deal? It would also mean paying less for tfs- buying multiple of old moulds for repainting etc.


Let's see if before we post anything, if we can find a positive in all this to slam in there. You'll feel better for it.

Remember; is the glass half empty, or half full?

Also, could I have links to these posts TENIME?
Don't ask why, but now I'm interested...

Lord Crump wrote:The problem is, banning people who are rude or unkind in a discussion like this would mean a very large percentage of the members would probably go bye-bye.

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:From this point on any bitching or flaming threads will be split from this thread, locked and moved to our custom storage facility.

I am from the EPA and I demand, you shut all of this down.

Can't do that..
This thread is a news linked item, is on the front page and those are not supposed to be locked.

Please let's keep this civil alright?

Ghostbusters reference?

anyone?

...

is this thing on?

Come one guys, we all disagree once in a while and it leads to 20 page discussions like this. I think we all know the opinions of everyone now and it is just arguing for the sake of arguing. For the most part, we all get along here, just once in a while, a topic of "interest" comes up that gets us all disheveled.

And I'll admint, I've been rude before, but I take not later on of that and have often apologized, or actually just got a better repetoir with the person targeted in the reply in my post. Let's not take any of this personally and just realize we all like Transformers here.

It's sad but it's true.

I would have been banned several pages back. But I simmered and cooled. And now I see a positive.

Out of the blue, has anyone seen the work this guy over at tfans is doing on a masterpiece Metroplex? It is truly amazing, and the final thing is said to be on show at Botcon this year!

Linky linky
http://www.tfans.com/talk/index.php?sho ... 500&st=120

Start at page one and work your way through. This guy is truly an engineering god!

Stay positive!