The Energon Pub

We've all wondered if there worlds met who's technology, weapons, skill, ect... would reign supreme. I know I can't awnser that question, but a picture(even created ones) is worth a thousand words right?

And... wow.

You all know how I stand. You all know I can back up my argument.

The Imperial Fleet (which is what I am assuming in that picture is against the E-D) would utterly annihilate the Enterprise-D or any other galaxy class vessel with very few (fighter) casualties.

Furthermore a Battle Between the Federation and the Empire would result in the annihilation of the Federation.

AutobotGeneral wrote:And... wow.

You all know how I stand. You all know I can back up my argument.

The Imperial Fleet (which is what I am assuming in that picture is against the E-D) would utterly annihilate the Enterprise-D or any other galaxy class vessel with very few (fighter) casualties.

Furthermore a Battle Between the Federation and the Empire would result in the annihilation of the Federation.

I remember the last few runs of verses along these line and... as much of a trekky i am... gotta go with AG on this one...

heh viral jedi...

AxiomScion wrote:

AutobotGeneral wrote:And... wow.

You all know how I stand. You all know I can back up my argument.

The Imperial Fleet (which is what I am assuming in that picture is against the E-D) would utterly annihilate the Enterprise-D or any other galaxy class vessel with very few (fighter) casualties.

Furthermore a Battle Between the Federation and the Empire would result in the annihilation of the Federation.

I remember the last few runs of verses along these line and... as much of a trekky i am... gotta go with AG on this one...

heh viral jedi...

Bacteria Jedi...

AutobotGeneral wrote:

AxiomScion wrote:

AutobotGeneral wrote:And... wow.

You all know how I stand. You all know I can back up my argument.

The Imperial Fleet (which is what I am assuming in that picture is against the E-D) would utterly annihilate the Enterprise-D or any other galaxy class vessel with very few (fighter) casualties.

Furthermore a Battle Between the Federation and the Empire would result in the annihilation of the Federation.

I remember the last few runs of verses along these line and... as much of a trekky i am... gotta go with AG on this one...

heh viral jedi...

Bacteria Jedi...

if i wasn't laughing i'ld feel insulted

Jedis

Here we go again.

The plural of Jedi is Jedi.

Hate to rock the boat. but resistance is futial. Prepare to be asimulated. The empire would win, but it would be run by the borg

The Empire had one large weakness........Arrogence.

First, the empire, as I saw them in the SW films was pretty much a 'homosapian only club'. There might be alot of humans, but there's a heck of alot of other species out there.

Second, they invest alot of resources into massive, giant super ships and monster stations like the Death Star, which the first 2 were blown away by first a farm boy, and pimp.

Third, incompetent crews. They could not capture that pile of junk, falchon, and 2 or 3 star destroyers nearly slammed into each other in the process.....plus one of them were lost when they were stupid enough to go into an asteroid field. Takes more than an English accent to be a good crewman. And the fact that Stormstroopers can even hit a few guys 10 feet away with those guns ( it seems they don't even bother aiming ). Makes me thing that some kinda replication drift occured between the end of the republic and the begining of the empire. And the Jedi's are just as guilty of this. Palaptine, an insanely powerful Sith lord, was able to hide right under the Jedis' noses and no one even knew. Plus the jedi sticking to really old, outdated principles ( One can't become a jedi after they hit the big one zero, or no loving relationships with other people. ) Qui-Gon, in my opinion, was the only sensible Jedi around, and personaly, the only Jedi I ever liked, since he did not have his nose up in the air like the rest of them. Plus the Federation is not full of super beings or warriors with weird, gnarly powers they were born with, but just regular people using their brains, enginuity, and cleverness.

Fourth, the whole quality vs. quantity deal. It seems that everything and everyone, with exception to that crumbling old fossil of an emperor, are considered expendible. You loose a ship of 1,000 crew, another one will simply replace it. And those TIE, with exception of Vader's ( he was smart enough to know TIES were junk, so he made his own. ) are pretty much made from the same metals you make sardine tins with. Same thing where the Empire feels that killing their own officers when they mess up is a luxory they feel they can afford.

While the Empire might have some superior technologies, they seem to lack others. The Stardestroyer weapons did not get the falchon, what's with that? And it seems the even bigger ones can be downed with a destroyed bridge tower. Transporters for a start, and medical technology. When Worf got paralyzed, a new spinal column was able to be regenrated....plus with 7 of 9, I am sure the Federation were able to learn a heck of alot from the voyager's time in the delta quadrent, plus what kinda beatings the voyager itself took.

Also, the Federation itself is not an entity of war and domination, but of peace, exploration and diplomacy. The Empire just conquers and/or destroys. The Federation were able to hold against Klingons, Romulans, The Dominion, the Borg, the Xindi, and so on. The Empire could not even hold back against a band of rebels that were few and scattered. Plus the Federation has existed for well over 200 years, while the Empire lasted for maybe 20-25 years.

The Empire is comparable to the third reich, which was supposed to last 1,000 years, only lasted about a decade.
Tyranny never seems to last, someone's always gonna get pissed off and not take it anymore. The Empire's idea of using fear as a weapon really skrewed them over in the end.

So, yea, the Federation wins I say.

Besides, I think "Live long and prosper" and "to boldly go where no man has gone before" sound alot better than "May the force be with you" or "I have abad feeling about this".

And I'd feel more comfortable having Kirk or Picard in charge of a ship, rather than Osald or Needa.

Terrible spelling aside. Your argument is crap. As much as I respect the fact that you chose to go into a long drawn out argument concerning what we saw on film (with numerous factual errors, and false assumptions) the EU more than makes up for much of what you refer to as Imperial Incompetence.

Listen, I've been both a Trek fan and a Wars fan for as long as I can remember, I can go over numerous situations in both canonical universes where one would have a good chance against the other, but in this case we are talking a few star systems of the Federation versus the Galaxy Wide might of the Galactic Empire.

The Empire annihilates the Federation within a few short years (and that's to mop up the hold-outs).

As much as - in recent years - I've been a fan of neither, my extended absence and travels about the net have definetely decided this one for me. Like it or not,
http://www.stardestroyer.net explains this way better than I can off the top of my head.

Hell, after reading that, I think the Federation would be hard pressed to beat ANYBODY...

The Romulans or the Klingons would have the Empire for breakfast. Cloaking technology ftw!

The empire will win the federatinon can't fight for squat, mainly cause they have few English accents, we all know that is what really makes a good commander don't we

Sheba wrote:The Romulans or the Klingons would have the Empire for breakfast. Cloaking technology ftw!

So does the Empire you slarg.

I think I'll tackle the big one, today. I'm in the right mood.

Emperor Primacron the 1st wrote:The Empire had one large weakness........Arrogence.

First, the empire, as I saw them in the SW films was pretty much a 'homosapian only club'. There might be alot of humans, but there's a heck of alot of other species out there.

A) Red herring. This isn't relevant to the discussion.
B)Isn't that what the Klingons called the Federation in ST 6?
C) They have good reasons to be arrogant. They control millions of star systems through military might. That's not exactly easy.

Second, they invest alot of resources into massive, giant super ships and monster stations like the Death Star, which the first 2 were blown away by first a farm boy, and pimp.

The first case was an oversight. The second was due to a MASSIVE, complex military operation.

Third, incompetent crews. They could not capture that pile of junk, falchon, and 2 or 3 star destroyers nearly slammed into each other in the process.....plus one of them were lost when they were stupid enough to go into an asteroid field. Takes more than an English accent to be a good crewman.

Aside from pointing out the incredible general incompetance of Starfleet in similar situations (that comes later),
the only person who thought the Falcon was a piece of junk was Luke. It was a dedicated smuggler ship. A smuggler can't last long if the authorities can catch him without effort.

And the fact that Stormstroopers can even hit a few guys 10 feet away with those guns ( it seems they don't even bother aiming ).

Except for those guys on the Tantive IV in the beginning of A New Hope. Or those soldiers on Hoth. Not that people in Star Trek ever miss. It's not like Worf ever misses targets, even WITH computer assistance, or gets out-shot by a barmaid. Oh, wait a second...

Makes me thing that some kinda replication drift occured between the end of the republic and the begining of the empire.

It doesn't matter. Last time I checked, Storm Troopers are NOT the same thing as Clone troopers. Thankfully, the prequels are not considered as altering this previously established fact. It bugged me a lot, too (not that clone troopers don't bug me to begin with...)

And the Jedi's are just as guilty of this. Palaptine, an insanely powerful Sith lord, was able to hide right under the Jedis' noses and no one even knew.

Plus the jedi sticking to really old, outdated principles ( One can't become a jedi after they hit the big one zero, or no loving relationships with other people. ) Qui-Gon, in my opinion, was the only sensible Jedi around, and personaly, the only Jedi I ever liked, since he did not have his nose up in the air like the rest of them.

No argument here. Lucas' Bacteria Jedi were worthless.
Of course, the Empire doesn't rely on them: the Emperor had them KILLED, after all.

Plus the Federation is not full of super beings or warriors with weird, gnarly powers they were born with, but just regular people using their brains, enginuity, and cleverness.

Which is why their warpcores explode when so much as tapped, their defensive systems are full of holes, and their transporters can be blocked by naturally occuring magnetic fields. How clever.

Fourth, the whole quality vs. quantity deal. It seems that everything and everyone, with exception to that crumbling old fossil of an emperor, are considered expendible. You loose a ship of 1,000 crew, another one will simply replace it. And those TIE, with exception of Vader's ( he was smart enough to know TIES were junk, so he made his own. ) are pretty much made from the same metals you make sardine tins with. Same thing where the Empire feels that killing their own officers when they mess up is a luxory they feel they can afford.

Realizing, of course, that they might just have the resource base to be able to do so? If I have an army of six trillion men, a thousand here or there is a drop in the bucket. If TIEs were made from sardine cans, their pilots would die from radiation exposure. Frankly, the fact that they can simply replace a ship with 1000 crew (ten times that of the first Enterprise) shows superior logistics, not a weakness.

While the Empire might have some superior technologies, they seem to lack others. The Stardestroyer weapons did not get the falchon, what's with that?

Lesse, shields and orders not to destroy it, maybe?

And it seems the even bigger ones can be downed with a destroyed bridge tower. Transporters for a start, and medical technology. When Worf got paralyzed, a new spinal column was able to be regenrated....plus with 7 of 9, I am sure the Federation were able to learn a heck of alot from the voyager's time in the delta quadrent, plus what kinda beatings the voyager itself took.

Firstly, that super star destroyer was already under heavy fire. Its shields were already down, among other things.
Secondly, transporters are worthlessly problematic. Again, magnetic fields, and even certain natural ores block them.
Lastly, if by media technology you mean holodecks, notice how often those things go haywire and lead to nearly fatal situations? Besides, who wins: The society with TV, or the society with nukes?

Also, the Federation itself is not an entity of war and domination, but of peace, exploration and diplomacy.

A) This is a military conflict. Against a larger, and vastly more powerful enemy. This just hurts their case.
B)Starfleet still makes up all of the feddies military in the 24th century. How peaceful.

The Empire just conquers and/or destroys. The Federation were able to hold against Klingons, Romulans, The Dominion, the Borg, the Xindi, and so on. The Empire could not even hold back against a band of rebels that were few and scattered. Plus the Federation has existed for well over 200 years, while the Empire lasted for maybe 20-25 years.

The rebels were not 'few and scattered'. In fact, they themselves could defeat the federation with the resources they possessed. Also, note how often repeated conflicts arose between the Feddies and the aforementioned races.
Further, note than in the literature, the Empire was nowhere NEAR dismantled by the death of the Emperor. Which shouldn't be expected, due to its size and structure.

The Empire is comparable to the third reich, which was supposed to last 1,000 years, only lasted about a decade.
Tyranny never seems to last, someone's always gonna get pissed off and not take it anymore. The Empire's idea of using fear as a weapon really skrewed them over in the end.

In a way, though you notice living conditions weren't any better under the Old Republic. Also, I would more closely examine the federations own value system before passing judgement on Feddie society. It's not as great as Picard makes it out to be.

So, yea, the Federation wins I say.

Besides, I think "Live long and prosper" and "to boldly go where no man has gone before" sound alot better than "May the force be with you" or "I have abad feeling about this".

And I'd feel more comfortable having Kirk or Picard in charge of a ship, rather than Osald or Needa.

Opinion, yeah. Logical arguement, not so much. Personally, I'm not a fan of any of 'em.

Fracking filthy double post...
Argh!

Now if it where only a Galazy class star ship vs. four star destroyers and one super star destroyer I'd give it the empire though at least one if not all the star destroyers would be damaged heavily. The empire is out to kill the federation is about peace keeping.


in a long drawn out war...Empire wins the war but, after several years or so Empire falls apart.

Federation also has Section 31 and they don't really play by the rules. I don't see the empire using bio weapons...



Alll and all comepairing technology....If it's after Voyager gets back then I give to the federation.

ebilly99 wrote:Hate to rock the boat. but resistance is futial. Prepare to be asimulated. The empire would win, but it would be run by the borg

Check. And mate.

Plus SW is more fantasy than sci-fi. None of the technology is explained, it just is. Plus the use of magic, the force, etc.

Apples to oranges.

But the Borg rule.

And I'd feel more comfortable having Kirk or Picard in charge of a ship, rather than Osald or Needa.

Maybe so, but Han Solo pwns over all four of them at once. BTW, it's "Ozzel", not "Osald".


In any case I've got my answer as to who wins with three words: Grand Admiral Thrawn.

The Federation doesn't stand a chance.

YouFearGalvatron wrote:

ebilly99 wrote:Hate to rock the boat. but resistance is futial. Prepare to be asimulated. The empire would win, but it would be run by the borg

Check. And mate.

Plus SW is more fantasy than sci-fi. None of the technology is explained, it just is. Plus the use of magic, the force, etc.

Apples to oranges.

But the Borg rule.

Oh! Agony! The Shambling cyber-zombies are coming! Oh! The Terror!

Seriously, no. Borg adaptation is severely overrated: Note that the bullets from a HOLOGRAPHIC machine gun screw them over, as do knives, Bat'leth's, and Captain Archers bare hands. If a weapon is somehow phase-coherant, and has a frequency to adapt to, they can handle it. Most don't. The Empire's don't.

And just wait until the Death Star gets around to them. Imagine the fun.

Someone once estimated that the building of the Death Star required metal from 800,000 star systems to be completed in a few years. Therefore, the Empire must have at least 800,000 star systems in it: probably a lot more, in fact. Therefore, the Empire dwarfs the Federation and thus should win easily.