The Energon Pub

Tsutsukakushi wrote:doubtful, Vetron will be Voyager or Ultra scale. As Shadow Samurai League wants to create a better version than HasTak. The only way for SSL to accomplish this is to create a leader or bigger scale toy. SSL isn't going to feel comfortable creating a smaller inferior version and allow Hastak to create the superior bigger version.

??? Hasbro isn't making a toy based on this design, so anyone who wants this particular Megatron body will have to get this, or wait hoping that someone else will make a toy based on a body that was last used 7 years ago. So I don't get how the whole superior version schtick comes from.
And how the hell do you know how they feel?

MP-01 & MP-10 are proof that when you make a TF toy smaller. Their is less parts, lower sculpt. Less complex,more compact, simplified design and inferior engineering. This is how the SSL Vetron will be if it's Voyager or Ultra scale. While the HasTak 30th Megatron leader scale toy becomes the superior winner of the Two.

Yea, "superior winner" as opposed to "inferior winner".

And I think you're a little confused, because you're trying to argue here that a Leader scale figure is superior to a Voyager scale one, but scite MP01 and MP10 as your proof. Do you have any version of those figures? I have both MP01 and MP10. Both have their pros and cons, but MP10 actually has more parts, is more complex in terms of transformation and engineering, and features better sculpting.
And all that while being smaller.
Hell HTS 02 Optimus kicks MP01s ass, especially when taking his size into account. MP01 was awesome when he came out, but that was 10 years ago, we've all learned form him and have implemented what was groundbreaking about him back then into almost every toyline since.

Titanium 6 inch WW Megatron was created to please those who want this design toy in a smaller Voyager scale. Just buy this and call it a day.

What is "design toy"? Also, Tits WW Megatron was not Voyager scale, it was tits scale about deluxe size. Also, it was based on the War Within design, from Dreamwave's "The War Within", it looked like this:


But, this toy here is based on Megatron as he appeared in idw's "Infiltration", "Stormbringer", and early issues of "Escalation".

Just to dumb it down:
=//=
And why do you go on and on about why Vetron sucks, if you then go and end it with saying we should just buy it?

rpetras wrote:I like Megatron as a tank.

If you don't want mass-shifting, it is the most logical alt mode for a guy that originally turned into a gun.

But I would prefer they went with a more realistic tank, rather than an "H" tank.

A little more like this:

HasTak had the option of taking the 2007 movie Leader scale Brawl toy and turning it into a Platinum Megatron toy. All that was needed was a new G-1 Megatron head, Some resculpted parts, Newer G-1 Megatron weapons added & G-1 deco colors on the toy. Instead HasTak keeps recoloring and remolding the Movie Bludgeon and 1.0 deluxe tank Megatron toy into newer Megatron toys.

The Platinum TF toy line is epic fail. As the wrong TF toys get remolded and recolored for this line.

Generation 2 Megatron would make a great candidate for the MP TF toy treatement. As HasTak could use a realistic military tank alt mode. Yet HasTak hasn't even put this toy on the table yet for this MP TF toy line.

Dead Metal wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:doubtful, Vetron will be Voyager or Ultra scale. As Shadow Samurai League wants to create a better version than HasTak. The only way for SSL to accomplish this is to create a leader or bigger scale toy. SSL isn't going to feel comfortable creating a smaller inferior version and allow Hastak to create the superior bigger version.

??? Hasbro isn't making a toy based on this design, so anyone who wants this particular Megatron body will have to get this, or wait hoping that someone else will make a toy based on a body that was last used 7 years ago. So I don't get how the whole superior version schtick comes from.
And how the hell do you know how they feel?

MP-01 & MP-10 are proof that when you make a TF toy smaller. Their is less parts, lower sculpt. Less complex,more compact, simplified design and inferior engineering. This is how the SSL Vetron will be if it's Voyager or Ultra scale. While the HasTak 30th Megatron leader scale toy becomes the superior winner of the Two.

Yea, "superior winner" as opposed to "inferior winner".

And I think you're a little confused, because you're trying to argue here that a Leader scale figure is superior to a Voyager scale one, but scite MP01 and MP10 as your proof. Do you have any version of those figures? I have both MP01 and MP10. Both have their pros and cons, but MP10 actually has more parts, is more complex in terms of transformation and engineering, and features better sculpting.
And all that while being smaller.
Hell HTS 02 Optimus kicks MP01s ass, especially when taking his size into account. MP01 was awesome when he came out, but that was 10 years ago, we've all learned form him and have implemented what was groundbreaking about him back then into almost every toyline since.

Titanium 6 inch WW Megatron was created to please those who want this design toy in a smaller Voyager scale. Just buy this and call it a day.

What is "design toy"? Also, Tits WW Megatron was not Voyager scale, it was tits scale about deluxe size. Also, it was based on the War Within design, from Dreamwave's "The War Within", it looked like this:


But, this toy here is based on Megatron as he appeared in idw's "Infiltration", "Stormbringer", and early issues of "Escalation".

Just to dumb it down:
=//=
And why do you go on and on about why Vetron sucks, if you then go and end it with saying we should just buy it?

The 30th Leader scale Megatron toy & SSL Vetron are using the same exact IDW ongoing design for their toys. After the steath fighter body got damaged. That Tank Megatron design that got used in the 2013 ongoing is the same design being used in the April 2014 IDW Ongoing comics. IDW just likes to draw the same designs different due to them giving creative freedom to newer artist that join the team on the book.

HasTak deluxe toys do not reach the Six inch robot height. Only a rare few exceptions accomplish this. Most of HasTak Deluxe scaled toys are Five inches to Five and Three quarter inches tall in robot height. most of the time When a TF toy reaches the Six inch height in robot mode it is considered a Voyager scaled toy.

No,I have both the MP-01 and MP-10 toy on my display shelves. I have played with and transformed both toys numerous times. The MP-10 toy according to most youtube toy reviewers and myself is much easier and quicker to transforme compared to the MP-01 toy.

I take apart my TF toys to do customs and kitbashes. The MP-01 toy has much more springs, gears and parts inside the toy compared to the MP-10 toy. Their is no light up chest gimmick for the Matrix in the MP-10 toy like the MP-01 toy has.

The MP-10 Sculpt has less gimmicks and is less complex than the MP-01 toy. Their is no Hydrolics gimmicks on the tires suspensions, hydrolics gimmicks on the legs and forearms on the MP-10 toy like the MP-01 toy has. No flip up video phone character images on the MP-10 robot forearms like the MP-01 toy has. The four panel lines on the lower legs move up and down on the MP-01 toy, While they are just cheaply sculpted on the MP-10 sculpt. Meele ax attaches more complex on the MP-01 toy.

The MP-01 toy has more diecast metal parts than the MP-10 toy.

Looking at both the MP-01 and MP-10 toys on my display shelf. The MP-01 toy has more parts and pieces than the MP-10 toy does. I see this visually. I know this as fact and for certain because I have taken apart both toys and counted all the parts and pieces. While doing customs on both toys.

I don't go on and on saying Vetron sucks like you typed in your reply. I said,I like the design and will be buying it if it's Leader scale. I plan to also buy the HasTak 30th Leader Megatron toy.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

rpetras wrote:I like Megatron as a tank.

If you don't want mass-shifting, it is the most logical alt mode for a guy that originally turned into a gun.

But I would prefer they went with a more realistic tank, rather than an "H" tank.

A little more like this:

HasTak had the option of taking the 2007 movie Leader scale Brawl toy and turning it into a Platinum Megatron toy. All that was needed was a new G-1 Megatron head, Some resculpted parts, Newer G-1 Megatron weapons added & G-1 deco colors on the toy. Instead HasTak keeps recoloring and remolding the Movie Bludgeon and 1.0 deluxe tank Megatron toy into newer Megatron toys.

The Platinum TF toy line is epic fail. As the wrong TF toys get remolded and recolored for this line.

Generation 2 Megatron would make a great candidate for the MP TF toy treatement. As HasTak could use a realistic military tank alt mode. Yet HasTak hasn't even put this toy on the table yet for this MP TF toy line.

Uhhh............as much as I enjoy your posts, any chance that they have an iota of fact or only "me wish?"

Seems like you have the habit of posting them as a matter of fact.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:snipped for length

The 30th Leader scale Megatron toy & SSL Vetron are using the same exact IDW ongoing design for their toys. After the steath fighter body got damaged. That Tank Megatron design that got used in the 2013 ongoing is the same design being used in the April 2014 IDW Ongoing comics. IDW just likes to draw the same designs different due to them giving creative freedom to newer artist that join the team on the book.

No sorry, completely different design
Early idw, as in Vetron:


Current idw, as in upcoming Generations Leader:


Both of these have been consistently drawn that way by each artist that drew the characters during the time those designs were/ are in use, the old idw design is even still used now when a story or part of it takes place during the time Megatron had that body.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:HasTak deluxe toys do not reach the Six inch robot height. Only a rare few exceptions accomplish this. Most of HasTak Deluxe scaled toys are Five inches to Five and Three quarter inches tall in robot height. most of the time When a TF toy reaches the Six inch height in robot mode it is considered a Voyager scaled toy.

I said about Deluxe, you may want to go and check up on the definition of that word. It is also not the height of a toy that determines its scale, it is its mass. Otherwise Animated Bulkhead would have been a Deluxe and Lockdown an Ultra.
And the Titanium line where 6 inch in height on average, less complex than a Deluxe, and had about the same mass as a Deluxe. They retailed at 15 dollars, back when Deluxes were 10 and Voyagers were 20. So neither of the Tits was or is Voyager, they are their own thing done in no real scale. WW Megatron for instance is shorter than Deluxe WOC Megatron.

So no, it's not Voyager scale.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:No,I have both the MP-01 and MP-10 toy on my display shelves. I have played with and transformed both toys numerous times. The MP-10 toy according to most youtube toy reviewers and myself is much easier and quicker to transforme compared to the MP-01 toy.

It's just as easy to transform as MP01.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:I take apart my TF toys to do customs and kitbashes. The MP-01 toy has much more springs, gears and parts inside the toy compared to the MP-10 toy. Their is no light up chest gimmick for the Matrix in the MP-10 toy like the MP-01 toy has.

IT does not, prove me otherwise. And light up gimmicks do not determine how complex a toy is, in fact toys are made less complex in order to accommodate for the light up gimmick.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:The MP-10 Sculpt has less gimmicks and is less complex than the MP-01 toy. Their is no Hydrolics gimmicks on the tires suspensions, hydrolics gimmicks on the legs and forearms on the MP-10 toy like the MP-01 toy has. No flip up video phone character images on the MP-10 robot forearms like the MP-01 toy has. The four panel lines on the lower legs move up and down on the MP-01 toy, While they are just cheaply sculpted on the MP-10 sculpt. Meele ax attaches more complex on the MP-01 toy.

As I said, both have their pros and cons.
Yes, MP01 has more gimmicks, but that does not make him a better toy, for every gimmick he has he sacrifices something. Sculp also has nothing to do with the gimmicks, the sculpt is the visuals of the figure, the detailing and the design, not the gimmicks. And MP10's sculpt is better and more detailed than that of MP01. Something that is even further underscored by his size, which brings the detail closer together and thus make it look even more detailed.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:The MP-01 toy has more diecast metal parts than the MP-10 toy.

And what does that have to do with size and or sculpt? The diecast hurts MP01 because it's terrible at keeping paint on and throws the whole figure out of balance, making it a pain to actually pose. And if you want to argue that MP01 is better than 10 because of the diecast, well, taking size and mass into account, WW Megatron has more diecast parts than MP 01. So you want to say that's a better toy than MP01?

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Looking at both the MP-01 and MP-10 toys on my display shelf. The MP-01 toy has more parts and pieces than the MP-10 toy does. I see this visually. I know this as fact and for certain because I have taken apart both toys and counted all the parts and pieces. While doing customs on both toys.

Again, prove it. Show us the parts count on both figures. So that we can also "know this as fact and for certain".

Tsutsukakushi wrote:I don't go on and on saying Vetron sucks like you typed in your reply. I said,I like the design and will be buying it if it's Leader scale. I plan to also buy the HasTak 30th Leader Megatron toy.

You so did, the whole post was just why this will fail because it's not Leader scale, and then you said we should just buy it and be done with it. Or wait, did you mean "that" instead of "this", as in buy WW Megatron and be done with it? You need to take better care at typing up posts that people can actually read and understand properly, otherwise you'll come off as an imbecile.

Dead Metal wrote: You so did, the whole post was just why this will fail because it's not Leader scale,

Vetron won't be Voyager scale, It's going to be a Leader scale toy. SSL is not going to embarrass itself by creating the more puny looking smaller scale toy Version. Compared to the big brother looking 30th Leader Scale Megatron toy.

Dead Metal wrote:and then you said we should just buy it and be done with it. Or wait, did you mean "that" instead of "this", as in buy WW Megatron and be done with it?

Titanium 6 inch WW Megatron. Is the Voyager scale toy, Some in this thread desire Vetron to be. So Just buy the Galoob toy and call it a day.

Splitting hairs here. Titanium 6 inch WW Megatron,SSL Vetron and 30th leader scale Megatron. Are all based off the same Cybertronian Tank Megatron design that DW created. The initial design is still present on all of these toys. It's just slightly tweaked in areas. Its more of less different comic and toy artist tweaking it a bit to make it look fresh. no need to buy them all,just pick your desired scale from the Three listed here and call it a day.

When HasTak did those Two deluxe scale 10th anniversary new molds for beast wars Megatron and Primal. No one said these molds look so radical,they must be rebuilt bodies for these characters. Most just accepted it as just creative freedom on the sculpting of these molds. Most viewed the molds as homages not upgrades.

I still can't believe. Some fans view the April 2014 IDW Tank Megatron, As a Upgraded body from the 2013 Tank Megatron body design. Some are convinced that when megatron got his tank megatron body badly damaged in 2013 and again during dark Cybertron,he kept getting vastly rebuilt,upgraded and got more different parts added to his now current April 2014 body. Some don't realize it's just different artist signing on the book and putting their own art spin on the same design. IDW allows creative freedom with there artist. often times the same TF characters that are in Rid and mtmte will be drawn different within the same month issues.

Dunno what we're arguing here. Early IDW Megs is different from the current Megs, which is different from WW. Sure, they're all silver Cybertronian tanks, but they are all different.

Titaniums aren't voyagers. They're not deluxe either. They're their own thing. If we're going by height then I'd say they're more deluxe than voyager, but it's not really about height. DM is right, it's about mass and overall size, especially in the mode it's packaged in. That's one reason why Classics Starscream was so small; his wingspan has to fit inside the deluxe package.

And bigger isn't always better. Energon Galvatron is the same height as MP Rodimus. You get one guess which is more complicated. If you look at the new Leader Jetfire you can see most of his alt. mode is on his back; I don't think he's going to be too complex. It stands to reason the other leaders will share this lack of complexity (which doesn't make them bad; it just is what it is).

And anyway, 3rd party voyagers aren't really voyagers. We're using that as a way of understanding the height and mass, but they don't have any of the same rules as the official size classes, so they're free to be as complex as they like (which is a good thing IMO).

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Dead Metal wrote: You so did, the whole post was just why this will fail because it's not Leader scale,

Vetron won't be Voyager scale, It's going to be a Leader scale toy. SSL is not going to embarrass itself by creating the more puny looking smaller scale toy Version. Compared to the big brother looking 30th Leader Scale Megatron toy.

Dead Metal wrote:and then you said we should just buy it and be done with it. Or wait, did you mean "that" instead of "this", as in buy WW Megatron and be done with it?

Titanium 6 inch WW Megatron. Is the Voyager scale toy, Some in this thread desire Vetron to be. So Just buy the Galoob toy and call it a day.

Splitting hairs here. Titanium 6 inch WW Megatron,SSL Vetron and 30th leader scale Megatron. Are all based off the same Cybertronian Tank Megatron design that DW created. The initial design is still present on all of these toys. It's just slightly tweaked in areas. Its more of less different comic and toy artist tweaking it a bit to make it look fresh. no need to buy them all,just pick your desired scale from the Three listed here and call it a day.

When HasTak did those Two deluxe scale 10th anniversary new molds for beast wars Megatron and Primal. No one said these molds look so radical,they must be rebuilt bodies for these characters. Most just accepted it as just creative freedom on the sculpting of these molds. Most viewed the molds as homages not upgrades.

I still can't believe. Some fans view the April 2014 IDW Tank Megatron, As a Upgraded body from the 2013 Tank Megatron body design. Some are convinced that when megatron got his tank megatron body badly damaged in 2013 and again during dark Cybertron,he kept getting vastly rebuilt,upgraded and got more different parts added to his now current April 2014 body. Some don't realize it's just different artist signing on the book and putting their own art spin on the same design. IDW allows creative freedom with there artist. often times the same TF characters that are in Rid and mtmte will be drawn different within the same month issues.

OK I have to apologize, after reading this post I have come to the realisation that you are in fact an imbecile - with bad eyes.

Generalizations, claiming knowledge of facts w/o attribution or sourcing, and inconsistencies.

Back to the topic at hand. If this group can produce something close to the artwork, I think this can be very, very cool. I'd even consider changing out my WW/pre-earth Megs with this guy. As much as I like the WfC hovertank Megs, Vetron looks even better:



The H-tank sorta looks like Legends Warpath.

Dead Metal wrote:OK I have to apologize,

Thank you,I accept your apology.

Oh man is this page hard to read through.I seriously had to talk myself out of smashing my head off of the keyboard a few times.

I'd like to know how "we" know the size of this thing. Am i missing a hidden picture or post that says this will be leader class? The phrase comparing apples to oranges comes to mind a lot in this discussion.

Lastly, for the love of God, please don't suggest the titanium WW Megatron as the fix all for anyone wanting a Megatron that turns into a tank. That is just being a bad human.

I hope this figure does come out and it stays relatively true to the early IDW design. It was one of the best imo. I'll buy it and guess what, I'll buy the hasbro leader Megatron too. Apples & oranges.

Doctor McGrath wrote:Oh man is this page hard to read through.I seriously had to talk myself out of smashing my head off of the keyboard a few times.

I'd like to know how "we" know the size of this thing. Am i missing a hidden picture or post that says this will be leader class? The phrase comparing apples to oranges comes to mind a lot in this discussion.

Lastly, for the love of God, please don't suggest the titanium WW Megatron as the fix all for anyone wanting a Megatron that turns into a tank. That is just being a bad human.

I hope this figure does come out and it stays relatively true to the early IDW design. It was one of the best imo. I'll buy it and guess what, I'll buy the hasbro leader Megatron too. Apples & oranges.

Kumquats and Melons!

craggy wrote:

Doctor McGrath wrote:Oh man is this page hard to read through.I seriously had to talk myself out of smashing my head off of the keyboard a few times.

I'd like to know how "we" know the size of this thing. Am i missing a hidden picture or post that says this will be leader class? The phrase comparing apples to oranges comes to mind a lot in this discussion.

Lastly, for the love of God, please don't suggest the titanium WW Megatron as the fix all for anyone wanting a Megatron that turns into a tank. That is just being a bad human.

I hope this figure does come out and it stays relatively true to the early IDW design. It was one of the best imo. I'll buy it and guess what, I'll buy the hasbro leader Megatron too. Apples & oranges.

Kumquats and Melons!

Ewww, Kumquats. Too tart for this guy.

Oh goodie! After a few days of relative silence on suksuksuki's part I was worried the suksuksuki show had been canceled! Glad to see I get the read back to back to back page long posts filled with congecture, opinion mascurading as fact and mind numbing arrogance.

Yay us!

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:OK I have to apologize,

Thank you,I accept your apology.

You do understand that DM called you a certified genius at the level of Einstein no?

Are you high btw with green energon 'cause until now, you still haven't presented an iota of proof to back up you assertions.

The Last great Megatron toy,I liked was the 2009 Animated Leader scale Megatron toy. Most of the 2007-2013 Megatron toys from HasTak I felt were terrible. Hoping the 30th Leader Megatron and Vetron will be transfer well from Beautiful comics art form into breathtaking toys form.

Tsutsukakushi wrote: Hoping the 30th Leader Megatron and Vetron will be transfer well from Beautiful comics art form into breathtaking toys form.

Now that is something we agree on. Well said.

While the Vetron H tank does Resemble the design Generations Warpath used. I actually think it homages more sculpting parts and pieces on the H tank design that Armada Megatron's toy used.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:The Last great Megatron toy,I liked was the 2009 Animated Leader scale Megatron toy. Most of the 2007-2013 Megatron toys from HasTak I felt were terrible. Hoping the 30th Leader Megatron and Vetron will be transfer well from Beautiful comics art form into breathtaking toys form.

yeah, there's been a lack of good Megatron and Optimus toys from Hasbro. The recent Generations/IDW ones actually look decent, but Megatron's too small for me and it's Orion Pax, not Optimus. (I'd have been happy with a Voyager Orion Pax in his modern day body though, that would have been cool) Instead of a nice Voyager (or even Leader) class set of the two, for the 30th anniversary, instead we get a couple of Legends.

I'd agree that the h-tank here does echo Armada Megs. I'm not sure I really like the h-tank in general, let alone in this particular instance. It just seems like quite an easy/lazy alt mode. The equivalent of a beast former just standing up.