The Energon Pub

Crimson Dynamo wrote:

Iron-Man wrote:Nekoman. You just summed up my thoughts exactly. Hell, I personally preorder off of them for stuff for one reason. It's cheaper than retail. Yes you heard me right. I can buy every figure I want at one time and pay a single shipping price, and then on top of that have it all delivered right to my doorstep. With gas being 2.80 a gallon here, driving 12 miles to Elyria, stopping the car, searching the Target, starting the car, driving, stopping the car, searching the TRU, starting the car, driving, stopping the car, and finally searching Wal-Mart is retarded and idiotic. After paying for the gas, the toy and the taxes, it becomes cheaper to buy from an online store.

And his argument about people buying prototypes is mum at best. It's like getting angry at a rich guy paying 300,000 for some rare low produced Chevy Corvette from the 60's. If you don't make millions of dollars it seems foolish, but to someone that makes a high amount of money, it's chump change.

This topic screams "I am either on allowance or make very little money so I'm going to knock people who can afford to buy things on a whim when I can't".

Sir, your reply screams "I'm going to go on the defensive and totally miss the point."

People who buy stolen prototypes/oneshots and then sell them online are still thieves. And the people who buy from them are feeding the demand for stolen goods. You can talk about how rich they are 'til the cows come home, but they're still greedy, thieving sons of bitches.

You trying to rell me that this isn't sending out the wrong message to collectors and retailers? And when I say "wrong" I mean "right for them".

I agree with everything you have posted throughout this thread except your take on prototypes and unreleased figures.

I don't think they people "stealing" them or the people buying them are having an effect on the overall market one way or the other.

When Target, K-Mart and Walmart pre-order assortments sometimes 6-12 months in advance I doubt they are worried about the effect of what you mentioned (3 or 4 prototypes or test toys leaked) having ANY effect on sales because their reach is far and wide.

I agree with eveything else.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Iron-Man wrote:This topic screams "I am either on allowance or make very little money so I'm going to knock people who can afford to buy things on a whim when I can't".

Buying from online retailers doesn't drive up the price in regular retail stores. If someone wants to pay 29.99 for a voyager, it's not going to make it so I have to pay more for the same figure when I find it at Target.

No (well, not yet), but it DOES drive the prices up on online stores. Which makes life more difficult for those people who HAVE to buy online for whatever reason.

And what of about those online retailers who actually buy their toys from Target, TRU etc, and then sell them online marked up? BBTS do that don't they (feel free to correct me, I seem to remember seeing Target exclusives on there).

Crimson Dynamo wrote:

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Iron-Man wrote:This topic screams "I am either on allowance or make very little money so I'm going to knock people who can afford to buy things on a whim when I can't".

Buying from online retailers doesn't drive up the price in regular retail stores. If someone wants to pay 29.99 for a voyager, it's not going to make it so I have to pay more for the same figure when I find it at Target.

No (well, not yet), but it DOES drive the prices up on online stores. Which makes life more difficult for those people who HAVE to buy online for whatever reason.

And what of about those online retailers who actually buy their toys from Target, TRU etc, and then sell them online marked up? BBTS do that don't they (feel free to correct me, I seem to remember seeing Target exclusives on there).

The only problem I have with BBTS is the inconsistency in pricing. Some items are priced fair or right around 1-2 dollars more than mass retail, but other items, like older Hasbro reissues can readily be bought MISB on EBAY for the same or less than what they charge for MIB reissues BEFORE shipping.

Dagon wrote:1. Ok wait, so people who buy prototypes or packaged figures that aren't at retail yet are idiots, and not just people who collect differently, or really can't wait for that figure to release, of maybe like, collect prototypes specifically? Wow.

2. I don't understand those pathetic, idiotic people who must void their bowels more than once a day. Why can't they just man up, wait for a while, and then blow it all out of their system at one time, like a regular non-pathetic idiot? That's why I don't order from BBTS....they make too many trips to the bathroom for my obviously superior likings.

1. Well, yeah, especially as they're often stolen and/or three times the retail price. I mean, you're not supporting the sale of stolen/overpriced goods to idiots are you? Wait...didn't I see you on eBay?

2. You're just babbling now babe.

"The only problem I have with BBTS is the inconsistency in pricing. Some items are priced fair or right around 1-2 dollars more than mass retail, but other items, like older Hasbro reissues can readily be bought MISB on EBAY for the same or less than what they charge for MIB reissues BEFORE shipping."


^
I'd love to know what their pricing policy is.

diosoth wrote:Overall, I think the fandom is solely to blame for the inflated prices to begin with. If people weren't willing to pay $50 or more for a deluxe because it's been out of production for a year, no one would charge that much.

Values are going up simply because people are too willing to get the toy that they don't worry about the cost.

Totally. So can we fix this?

Crimson Dynamo wrote:

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Iron-Man wrote:This topic screams "I am either on allowance or make very little money so I'm going to knock people who can afford to buy things on a whim when I can't".

Buying from online retailers doesn't drive up the price in regular retail stores. If someone wants to pay 29.99 for a voyager, it's not going to make it so I have to pay more for the same figure when I find it at Target.

No (well, not yet), but it DOES drive the prices up on online stores. Which makes life more difficult for those people who HAVE to buy online for whatever reason.

And what of about those online retailers who actually buy their toys from Target, TRU etc, and then sell them online marked up? BBTS do that don't they (feel free to correct me, I seem to remember seeing Target exclusives on there).

why can't BBTS buy a target or other store exclusive and then sell it online? And do you really expect them not to mark it up? Why go through the trouble of buying it, listing it, selling and shipping it just to sell it at cost?

when did making money become something that is wrong?

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:
when did making money become something that is wrong?

Ha ha! Wow, you're the model collector aren't you?

Just kidding.

Crimson Dynamo wrote:

diosoth wrote:Overall, I think the fandom is solely to blame for the inflated prices to begin with. If people weren't willing to pay $50 or more for a deluxe because it's been out of production for a year, no one would charge that much.

Values are going up simply because people are too willing to get the toy that they don't worry about the cost.

Totally. So can we fix this?

Again, I'll say this.. What you've said above is the very definition of a collectible. The harder something is to find, the more people are willing to spend to get it.

It's been said before by other members of this site. There's this sense of entitlement that it seems a lot of that fandom has. Basically they feel that they should be able to have any transformer that is produced.

Should you be able to afford every car that is made? Every house? Just because your neighbor down the street has a boat, does that mean you should have a boat, otherwise it's not fair?

Yes, it sucks that there are things we can't have. But that is life.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Crimson Dynamo wrote:

diosoth wrote:Overall, I think the fandom is solely to blame for the inflated prices to begin with. If people weren't willing to pay $50 or more for a deluxe because it's been out of production for a year, no one would charge that much.

Values are going up simply because people are too willing to get the toy that they don't worry about the cost.

Totally. So can we fix this?

Again, I'll say this.. What you've said above is the very definition of a collectible. The harder something is to find, the more people are willing to spend to get it.

It's been said before by other members of this site. There's this sense of entitlement that it seems a lot of that fandom has. Basically they feel that they should be able to have any transformer that is produced.

Should you be able to afford every car that is made? Every house? Just because your neighbor down the street has a boat, does that mean you should have a boat, otherwise it's not fair?

Yes, it sucks that there are things we can't have. But that is life.

I don't think he is implying he can't afford things. I think he is talking about the bigger picture of a rabid fan base who pay unnatural prices for Transformer products that will eventually be readily available at retail pricing for all of us and the larger effect it has on Hasbro, BBTS and other retailers positions on how to market, price and sell their Transformer products.

Meister cries inside wrote:
I don't think he is implying he can't afford things. I think he is talking about the bigger picture of a rabid fan base who pay unnatural prices for Transformer products that will eventually be readily available at retail pricing for all of us and the larger effect it has on Hasbro, BBTS and other retailers positions on how to market, price and sell their Transformer products.

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, you are correct. But I do find it interesting (and rather telling) that people seem to be fixating on MY financial status, rather than the state of the TF market. Maybe we're getting to the heart of the problem here. Maybe this is a hint of that rabid competitive nature that the TF fans and collectors seem to be exhibiting.

Regardless, I think it is important to understand the difference between "supporting your friendly online retailer" and "being treated like a mug by my friendly online retailer". I'm not suggesting that anyone boycott anyone, I'm just saying that as fans we owe it to ourselves (yes, me included) to be more responsible when it comes to buying toys. I like to believe that we have the power to change the market a little bit, I mean, it's us who got it to this state in the first place, right?
I'm open to suggestions, but don't forget this is all hypothetical.

And just to clarify further: I didn't intend for this to be an all-out attack on BBTS. It's my own fault for using them as the example, but yeah, this discussion is about ALL retailers, be they online or local stores.

I buy everything online, and I don't feel bad about it at all. I have been collecting for years, and having (like others have said) drive around and waste gas trying to find a store with even a single figure I want isn't worth the "treasure hunt."

If I'm looking for a figure, I want that figure. I'll admit I've been really pissed recently because the supply in my area hasn't met the demand. I live near NYC and my local Target and TRU are still not stocked:

Target: 6 deluxe Salvages and 2 Leader Megatrons
TRU: 10 Universe Prowls, 5 Titanium Grimlocks, and 4 Animated Bumblebees

This has been going on for weeks. Why should I wait around for a figure I may never see at retail, only to have to buy him on the secondary market. It is much more logical (to me) to pony up a few extra dollars for the guarantee on something I want.

I personally find HasbroToyShop and TFCC Store to be two of the worst things for collectors ... and I would rather deal with BBTS any day of the week.

Crimson Dynamo wrote:

Meister cries inside wrote:
I don't think he is implying he can't afford things. I think he is talking about the bigger picture of a rabid fan base who pay unnatural prices for Transformer products that will eventually be readily available at retail pricing for all of us and the larger effect it has on Hasbro, BBTS and other retailers positions on how to market, price and sell their Transformer products.

Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, you are correct. But I do find it interesting (and rather telling) that people seem to be fixating on MY financial status, rather than the state of the TF market. Maybe we're getting to the heart of the problem here. Maybe this is a hint of that rabid competitive nature that the TF fans and collectors seem to be exhibiting.

Regardless, I think it is important to understand the difference between "supporting your friendly online retailer" and "being treated like a mug by my friendly online retailer". I'm not suggesting that anyone boycott anyone, I'm just saying that as fans we owe it to ourselves (yes, me included) to be more responsible when it comes to buying toys. I like to believe that we have the power to change the market a little bit, I mean, it's us who got it to this state in the first place, right?
I'm open to suggestions, but don't forget this is all hypothetical.

And just to clarify further: I didn't intend for this to be an all-out attack on BBTS. It's my own fault for using them as the example, but yeah, this discussion is about ALL retailers, be they online or local stores.

There is no such thing as an "unnatural" price. By very definition prices are set by customers and not retailers. If people did not buy x TF for $20, then a retailer would need to lower their price.

But guess what, we are willing to pay, have no problems with paying, and would probably pay even more because we really can't seem to find anything better to spend a couple of bucks on.

Now then, having thought this over, maybe you were actually trying to question why people are buying Universe figures on ebay for 60 dollars that are about to appear at retail in a week or two. This I do not know..impatience maybe, maybe people who run wesites and want to get pics up for their fans to enjoy, or maybe they just have so much damned money that they don't give a hoot about an extra 50 bucks. Who cares anyhow? Their loss, some poor Chinese factory worker's gain. No skin off my back though.

Oh, and regarding the G1 comments..If you don't collect G1 you are a toy collector, if you do, you are a toy connoisseur.

Crimson Dynamo wrote:

Dagon wrote:1. Ok wait, so people who buy prototypes or packaged figures that aren't at retail yet are idiots, and not just people who collect differently, or really can't wait for that figure to release, of maybe like, collect prototypes specifically? Wow.

2. I don't understand those pathetic, idiotic people who must void their bowels more than once a day. Why can't they just man up, wait for a while, and then blow it all out of their system at one time, like a regular non-pathetic idiot? That's why I don't order from BBTS....they make too many trips to the bathroom for my obviously superior likings.

1. Well, yeah, especially as they're often stolen and/or three times the retail price. I mean, you're not supporting the sale of stolen/overpriced goods to idiots are you? Wait...didn't I see you on eBay?

2. You're just babbling now babe.

1. Yes in fact, you did see me on eBay. So does that now lump me in with the idiot crowd now as well? I don't buy prototypes and I don't care about people who do. Do I find it silly that people spend $100+ on figures from China that will be released here in 4 months, yes. But it's not my buisness. That's on them, not me. I just don't understand why we have to be all cranky about it and call them idiots and like berate people for doing so. Yes, ok, stealing from factories in China is wrong, and there will be people burning in Hell forever on account of it, but geez.


2. I knew I was babbling when I started. Did you call me babe?

What's really important to remember in all of this debate is that I have found all of the toys I am looking for. So there's no need to worry about me personally having to spend too much.

Counterpunch wrote:What's really important to remember in all of this debate is that I have found all of the toys I am looking for. So there's no need to worry about me personally having to spend too much.

That's good, because my first thought was... OMG! How much will Counterpunch have to pay????

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:What's really important to remember in all of this debate is that I have found all of the toys I am looking for. So there's no need to worry about me personally having to spend too much.

That's good, because my first thought was... OMG! How much will Counterpunch have to pay????

Yeah, me too. Looks like it's a night of easy sleep for me tonight.

I preorder everything off BBTS, if I find it localy before they get it I cancel the preorder with no penalty. BBTS actually save me money, I live in a somewhat rural area, if a figure doesn't show up at my local Wal-Mart I have to drive an hour to hunt it down. With BBTS I just sit back and wait for the figures to arrive in my pile of loot and when I have a decent sized order I ship it. It arrives right on my doorstep and I didn't waste a drop of gas. Sometimes I preorder things sight unseen. I preordered TFA Wreckgar, Waspinator, and Samurai Prowl weeks ago. Not because I'm a TF zombie that must have them before others, but because I've liked every TFA to date, s o it seems reasonable that I will enjoy these to.

My first post here. I'll give you the view of an outsider (someone who normally doesn't visit TF forums) looking in.

Transformers are cheap. I don't mean low quality; I mean that if you're going to have a collecting addiction, Transformers are a relatively inexpensive addiction to have. My cousin collects fountain pens and easily blows $100 a week. I collect Japanese robot toys and easily top him. I'm not rich, and I'm not living beyond my means. So, I don't mean to boast, if that's how it's coming across. Besides, I have a few collector friends who make my habits look pretty small time (they collect [also] Japanese robots, Star Wars stuff, and one who collects old video game arcade hardware).

But when I look at TF forums, I see a lot of complaining about a few bucks here and there. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but are you guys mostly students? The cost difference between retail and e-tail is minor, especially if you factor in (as someone before me has) the cost of gas to drive around to Target, TRU, Walmart, etc to find these toys. (Plus, you KNOW if you're out driving around, you're gonna stop for a burger. You just have to.) In my case, I'd have to say BBTS is quite a bit cheaper than buying at a brick & mortar, all things considered.

But money aside, time is a factor. I have my family, my work, my hobbies, and any number of little hassles that come up during the day. I don't have time to drive all over creation to round up toys. I know I can order from BBTS, and the toys will show up. A buddy sends me an e-mail and tells me some new stuff is pre-orderable at BBTS. Click, click, I'm done. It's one less thing in my life to worry about.

[I sympathize with people who consider the hunt to be a big part of the fun. That used to be the case for me, too. I just don't have the time and can't deal with it now. Traffic, parking lots, human cattle in the aisles in Walmart that won't move out of the way, and cashiers who seem evolved from dazed sloths are anti-fun. I do make a trip to Japan every year or so to hunt toys there, but that's another thing altogether, I guess.]

I don't how many people (who buy TFs) share my attitudes and opinions, but assuming I'm not alone, it would account for items selling out fast. I will say that if you *are* just starting out in life, and don't have a lot of free money to burn, be glad there's Transformers. Their success lately has been amazing, and there's an absolute *landslide* of good product to choose from compared to other properties, most of which is under $20. It's pretty cool, really.

Zeeble wrote:My first post here. I'll give you the view of an outsider (someone who normally doesn't visit TF forums) looking in.

Transformers are cheap. I don't mean low quality; I mean that if you're going to have a collecting addiction, Transformers are a relatively inexpensive addiction to have. My cousin collects fountain pens and easily blows $100 a week. I collect Japanese robot toys and easily top him. I'm not rich, and I'm not living beyond my means. So, I don't mean to boast, if that's how it's coming across. Besides, I have a few collector friends who make my habits look pretty small time (they collect [also] Japanese robots, Star Wars stuff, and one who collects old video game arcade hardware).

But when I look at TF forums, I see a lot of complaining about a few bucks here and there. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but are you guys mostly students? The cost difference between retail and e-tail is minor, especially if you factor in (as someone before me has) the cost of gas to drive around to Target, TRU, Walmart, etc to find these toys. (Plus, you KNOW if you're out driving around, you're gonna stop for a burger. You just have to.) In my case, I'd have to say BBTS is quite a bit cheaper than buying at a brick & mortar, all things considered.

But money aside, time is a factor. I have my family, my work, my hobbies, and any number of little hassles that come up during the day. I don't have time to drive all over creation to round up toys. I know I can order from BBTS, and the toys will show up. A buddy sends me an e-mail and tells me some new stuff is pre-orderable at BBTS. Click, click, I'm done. It's one less thing in my life to worry about.

[I sympathize with people who consider the hunt to be a big part of the fun. That used to be the case for me, too. I just don't have the time and can't deal with it now. Traffic, parking lots, human cattle in the aisles in Walmart that won't move out of the way, and cashiers who seem evolved from dazed sloths are anti-fun. I do make a trip to Japan every year or so to hunt toys there, but that's another thing altogether, I guess.]

I don't how many people (who buy TFs) share my attitudes and opinions, but assuming I'm not alone, it would account for items selling out fast. I will say that if you *are* just starting out in life, and don't have a lot of free money to burn, be glad there's Transformers. Their success lately has been amazing, and there's an absolute *landslide* of good product to choose from compared to other properties, most of which is under $20. It's pretty cool, really.

Agreed on all points.

Zeeble wrote:My first post here. I'll give you the view of an outsider (someone who normally doesn't visit TF forums) looking in.

Transformers are cheap. I don't mean low quality; I mean that if you're going to have a collecting addiction, Transformers are a relatively inexpensive addiction to have. My cousin collects fountain pens and easily blows $100 a week. I collect Japanese robot toys and easily top him. I'm not rich, and I'm not living beyond my means. So, I don't mean to boast, if that's how it's coming across. Besides, I have a few collector friends who make my habits look pretty small time (they collect [also] Japanese robots, Star Wars stuff, and one who collects old video game arcade hardware).

But when I look at TF forums, I see a lot of complaining about a few bucks here and there. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but are you guys mostly students? The cost difference between retail and e-tail is minor, especially if you factor in (as someone before me has) the cost of gas to drive around to Target, TRU, Walmart, etc to find these toys. (Plus, you KNOW if you're out driving around, you're gonna stop for a burger. You just have to.) In my case, I'd have to say BBTS is quite a bit cheaper than buying at a brick & mortar, all things considered.

But money aside, time is a factor. I have my family, my work, my hobbies, and any number of little hassles that come up during the day. I don't have time to drive all over creation to round up toys. I know I can order from BBTS, and the toys will show up. A buddy sends me an e-mail and tells me some new stuff is pre-orderable at BBTS. Click, click, I'm done. It's one less thing in my life to worry about.

[I sympathize with people who consider the hunt to be a big part of the fun. That used to be the case for me, too. I just don't have the time and can't deal with it now. Traffic, parking lots, human cattle in the aisles in Walmart that won't move out of the way, and cashiers who seem evolved from dazed sloths are anti-fun. I do make a trip to Japan every year or so to hunt toys there, but that's another thing altogether, I guess.]

I don't how many people (who buy TFs) share my attitudes and opinions, but assuming I'm not alone, it would account for items selling out fast. I will say that if you *are* just starting out in life, and don't have a lot of free money to burn, be glad there's Transformers. Their success lately has been amazing, and there's an absolute *landslide* of good product to choose from compared to other properties, most of which is under $20. It's pretty cool, really.

I agree too.

Same here.

And let me add, I am sure it is tough to be short of cash. However, if the couple of bucks extra for a figure are enough to cause someone to wig out, they need to seriously think about about whether they should be buying ANY TFs. Sounds like that money is needed elsewhere.

Buying TFs will never effect my lifestyle, and I am not rich by any means either. As such, 10, 12, 15...20 bucks for a TF. It is really all the same to me. So I don't really keep track of what store charges a couple of bucks more or less. I shop wherever I feel I get the best, most reliable service. For me, that is BBTS. If you are in a position where the couple of bucks extra is affecting you, let me stress again, you need to rethink your priorities.

Zeeble wrote:My first post here. I'll give you the view of an outsider (someone who normally doesn't visit TF forums) looking in.

Transformers are cheap. I don't mean low quality; I mean that if you're going to have a collecting addiction, Transformers are a relatively inexpensive addiction to have. My cousin collects fountain pens and easily blows $100 a week. I collect Japanese robot toys and easily top him. I'm not rich, and I'm not living beyond my means. So, I don't mean to boast, if that's how it's coming across. Besides, I have a few collector friends who make my habits look pretty small time (they collect [also] Japanese robots, Star Wars stuff, and one who collects old video game arcade hardware).

But when I look at TF forums, I see a lot of complaining about a few bucks here and there. I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but are you guys mostly students? The cost difference between retail and e-tail is minor, especially if you factor in (as someone before me has) the cost of gas to drive around to Target, TRU, Walmart, etc to find these toys. (Plus, you KNOW if you're out driving around, you're gonna stop for a burger. You just have to.) In my case, I'd have to say BBTS is quite a bit cheaper than buying at a brick & mortar, all things considered.

But money aside, time is a factor. I have my family, my work, my hobbies, and any number of little hassles that come up during the day. I don't have time to drive all over creation to round up toys. I know I can order from BBTS, and the toys will show up. A buddy sends me an e-mail and tells me some new stuff is pre-orderable at BBTS. Click, click, I'm done. It's one less thing in my life to worry about.

[I sympathize with people who consider the hunt to be a big part of the fun. That used to be the case for me, too. I just don't have the time and can't deal with it now. Traffic, parking lots, human cattle in the aisles in Walmart that won't move out of the way, and cashiers who seem evolved from dazed sloths are anti-fun. I do make a trip to Japan every year or so to hunt toys there, but that's another thing altogether, I guess.]

I don't how many people (who buy TFs) share my attitudes and opinions, but assuming I'm not alone, it would account for items selling out fast. I will say that if you *are* just starting out in life, and don't have a lot of free money to burn, be glad there's Transformers. Their success lately has been amazing, and there's an absolute *landslide* of good product to choose from compared to other properties, most of which is under $20. It's pretty cool, really.

I also agree, and welcome to Seibertron.

P.S. - I'm surprised there hasn't been someone who posted the warning by now.

I only order online when it's for a Transformer that's no longer in stores. Like most people, I mostly order G1. I'm also thinking about ordering the Wal-Mart exclusive Movie figures since they're no longer sold in my area. I may also get either Beast Machines or Universe Black Arachnia since I don't like the Animated version at all.

TurbofireJames wrote:Maybe I am an idiot but i love giving BBTS my money. They treat me great and seem like they care about my business.....thats more than i can say for the brick and mortar stores around me. I like supporting people who support me.

This. Right here.

Once, I ordered something from BBTS. Turned out to be a computer error, and they didn't actually have what I ordered. I received three, count them: three... Seperate email apologies andwas given store credit equal to 1.5x my purchase.

No questions asked.... I have always felt like BBTS cares for me persinally and for my business, thus, they will continue to receive my business.