The Energon Pub

Which is a smoking gun in and of itself. If Hasbro sets the price and quota higher per unit and per population head in their international markets than they do in the US, then isn't that essentially using the rest of the world to subsidise the US market?

Not necessarily. It may simply cost them less to import them here. The import/export situation between the US and China is a very odd one. Our economies are very co-dependent at the moment and have been for several years. In fact, for that very reason, it's (strangely) often cheaper for the US to import goods (even FOOD) from China rather than manufacturing them domestically.

Regarding your retail situation, that might be a big part of it too. You may have retailers gouging on pricing in your region for some reason since there isn't much competition.

My point is, I do not believe that Hasbro is losing money selling Transformers in the US and making up for it by selling at a higher price abroad. If that were the case, they'd either jack up the prices here (much more than they already have) or simply cut out of the US market and do much more business abroad (since it would be more profitable to do so).

I cannot say for certain though, and quite frankly, unless you work for Hasbro as an executive or accountant, neither can you. We're making a lot of assumptions here.

I'm not saying that TF fans in other nations aren't getting a raw deal, I know they are, I hear every day about the horror stories of pricing and distribution in the UK and other nations and it really sucks. Also keep in mind that I am not one of the ones complaining about the US domestic prices of TFs, so I'm not saying we have it any better or worse than you do (though I suspect the former as it sounds pretty bad where you are).

xyl360 wrote:

Which is a smoking gun in and of itself. If Hasbro sets the price and quota higher per unit and per population head in their international markets than they do in the US, then isn't that essentially using the rest of the world to subsidise the US market?

Not necessarily. It may simply cost them less to import them here. The import/export situation between the US and China is a very odd one. Our economies are very co-dependent at the moment and have been for several years. In fact, for that very reason, it's (strangely) often cheaper for the US to import goods (even FOOD) from China rather than manufacturing them domestically.

The relationship you bring up is no different to the one between China and Australia at the moment. In fact China being Australia's biggest client for raw materials currently is the sole reason Australia's economy isn't doing as terribly as the US economy overall.

xyl360 wrote:Regarding your retail situation, that might be a big part of it too. You may have retailers gouging on pricing in your region for some reason since there isn't much competition.

Both sides here have argued that the other is responsible for pricing and so based on that alone, it could be argued that you will never find the answer.

Except that 2 situations come to mind - both involving Cybertron Starscream funnily enough. Cyberstron Starscream became a shelfwarmer here, largely because he was a $109 item in the end. To get rid of him, he was clearanced at $12 (I kid you not) by Kmart at the time whilst other places sold him at $109. As an aside, I bought 2, sold off the other one on eBay for $50 and then a few years later, sold the loose one off for $50.

Anyway, you could argue from that, as you have that that implies price gouging. However that's unrealistic. It's highly unlikely that the buying price stores here were paying was under $10 for it or even under $40. What is likely is that Hasbro gave a rebate to Kmart to clear them out.

The reason I say that is because of the second example I'm about to give.

Cybertron Starscream wasn't always $109. In fact he was originally $149. When he shelfwarmed - get this - Hasbro lowered the wholesale price, allowing the retailers to drop the price to $109. The fact that a wholesale price drop resulted in such a dramatic drop in the RRP, all but proves that it is the wholesale price and Hasbro determining RRP, rather than the other way around.

xyl360 wrote:My point is, I do not believe that Hasbro is losing money selling Transformers in the US and making up for it by selling at a higher price abroad. If that were the case, they'd either jack up the prices here (much more than they already have) or simply cut out of the US market and do much more business abroad (since it would be more profitable to do so).

Except there's another retail pricing factor you've left out. That is what people will pay. The fact is that economic recessions in Europe and Asia got people used to paying higher prices for things. If you find that people are more likely to tolerate the price you need to sell something for in other markets and less likely in your preferred market, then you compensate for a lower profit margin in your preferred marketplace by operating under a higher profit margin elsewhere.

In fact a regular criticism of many international fans is that Hasbro only appears to care about the American market. That does appear to be slowly changing with developments in the Chinese market, however I suspect that the combination of China's rapid ascension and the USA's slow demise has forced Hasbro to rethink its strategy, as they can no longer afford to primarily concern themselves with the American retail marketplace.

Bowspearer wrote:The problem is that you're contradicting your own argument and tbh it's a bit of a strawman. To use your analogy, what is actually happening here isn't just a guy who is getting one year voicing displeasure over it, but he's doing it in front of those with much harsher sentences and in a way which is completely oblivious to said much harsher sentences. In that situation, are the other prisoners going to feel any degree of sympathy for him?

2 examples of this:

Megs for pres wrote: I did think 16 dollars for my delux cliff jumper at TRU was indeed INSANE!

The going rate internationally for deluxes is $33USD.

Mindewipe24 wrote:Mildly annoying if your made of money...., post me back when next year they are $40 bucks for a voyager and tell me that's not "insane"

Roughly $55USD is what the current going rate for Voyagers for international fans.

You say we should all want prices to drop for all of us and I completely agree. However that's not what's happening here. Most of the arguments coming forth demonstrate a complete obliviousness to the realities of prices outside the borders of the USA (and I say that because last I checked, even Canada was paying international prices- admittedly that was 10 years ago though when I was last there). How can people want everyone to work together when they are completely blind to the whole picture?

There was nothing contradictory about my statement. Everything I said makes perfect sense and continues to hold true.
If inmate A wants to whine because inmate B is sick about their 3 years, even though inmate A might have more time then Inmate A would be wrong for thinking that way and it wouldnt speed up time for anyone. all parties involved would still be sick with the current situation.
Let me put it likew this. If some fan from the mid east or elsewhere busted in here telling you how you need to quiet down because he has to pay 40 bucks for a deluxe and 60 for a voyager, would you say "damn. I guess I dont have it so bad after all!" or would you think more along the lines of "well that sucks, but it dosent make it any asier for me to swallow at the checkout line"?
Im inclined to believe youd lean more twards opinion B.
Also I may be new here, but in the posts Ive read I have never seen where someone typed "you mean there are fans outside the u.s.? they pay more than we do? SO WHAT!!"
Noone here has denied that you guys, or anyone else outside the usa dosent pay a higher rate than us. To read your posts youd think otherwise.
IDK where you got it from but it is...."mildly annoying"
How about this sir. Each time I display a sadness for prices here I will acknowledge that canadians and other places pay more as well. MORE than usa even. That should fix your problem.
Thing is, as I tried to tell you twice before, It wont make it any better for us here. we will still be over paying no matter how much you stand on a cross screaming about how americans need to shut up because you pay even more.
My opinion? sounds like there are other underlying problems at work here that you may need to adress.

Megs for pres wrote: There was nothing contradictory about my statement. Everything I said makes perfect sense and continues to hold true.
If other inmates want to whine because someone else is sad about their time, even though another person might have more time then THEY WOULD BE WHONG FOR THINKING THAT WAY and it wouldnt speed up time for anyone. Everyone would still be sick with the current situation.

Ok, let's use your inmates analogy here. You have a group of people in the slammer who's had a sentence increased from 1 year to 5 years say and are less than happy with it. Sure they're going to be less than happy, but when they're claiming it's the end of the world to a group of people who have gotten say 20 years for the same crime, the later group is going to wonder about perspective but generally not say anything, because they're adjusting.

However in that analogy, people in that 5 year sentence group suddenly make panic mongering claims that the sentence might even go as high as 10 years like it's the end of the world. At that point, the 20 year sentence group are going to be less than impressed and at the very least tell the 5 year sentence group to pull their heads in and get some perspective - if not give them a smack in the mouth (fyi I'm not advocating for violence here - just merely working with the analogy that someone else threw into the mix).

Megs for pres wrote: Also I may be new here, but in the posts Ive read I have never read a post where someone typed "canada?.....wheres that?"
Noone here has denied that you guys, or anyone else outside the usa dosent pay a higher rate than us. To read your posts youd think otherwise.
IDK where you got it from but it is...."mildly annoying"

Again you're missing the point. Noone has come out and made statements like that demonstrate a lack of geography - just statements which demonstrate a sheer ignorance of the realities of international fans. People raising a moral panic because prices might hit a worst case of $40 when that would be a sale price for international fans at retail - really does come across as self absorbed and it's going to alientate sympathy from international fans rather than encourage it.

I'll ignore most of the hyperbolic reactivity in what followed in your post, however I will say this. Finishing with an ad hominem is about the worst way to make a point with any credibility.

I like how you ignored my question so Ill ask again. If some fan busted in here telling you how you need to quiet down because he has worse than ausies and must pay 40 bucks for a deluxe and 60 for a voyager, would you say "damn. I guess I dont have it so bad after all!" or would you think more along the lines of "well that sucks, but it dosent make it any easier for me to swallow at the checkout line"?Im inclined to believe youd lean more twards opinion B.
You are consistently wide of my points.
Also, if what you imply about hasbro selling "cheap" here and making up for it by selling high in Australia is true then guess what... I didnt give the green light and Id bet no one here did either. Hell Id wager that no American did for that matter so stop acting like its an American conspiracy and were all at fault.
Once again, try to understand that we over pay in the U.S.A and the fact that you pay even more dosent lessen the impact to our wallets.Your problems with our sadness of overpaying make no sense. Ive never seen anyone deny that you pay more and that is what you say your problem is. That the Americans are oblivious correct?
Well there are some yoyos all over the world. It stands to reason there could be a few that for some odd reason wont believe that you pay more and happen to also be American.
My response is that those people are silly and do not represent by any stretch of the imagination the majority of U.S. collectors. They would also easily be proven wrong.
If you say you pay more, I believe you and extend my condolences. Once more though. It wont make it easier for me to shell out 17.99 for a deluxe and it damn sure dosent deprive me of the right to express my concerns on this thread.
If that makes you want to assault me then you obviously have other problems,but I invite you to come try.
The way you ignore the obvious hypocrisy in your logic here (the hypocrisy ofcourse being that you chide the U.S. fans for complaining about prices as you boldly do the same) Makes no sense. It just makes you look you have some weird issue with Americans.
Finally I have been forced to bay up to 80 dollars and an average of 50 for 90% of my deluxe figures and 100 for my voyagers because I had to go ebay on the count of I started collecting late in the game. So by your own logic, I can now tell you that I dont want to hear you complain anymore because I have it worse than you. Right? Points made

Megs for pres wrote:I like how you ignored my question so Ill ask again. If some fan busted in here telling you how you need to quiet down because he has worse than ausies and must pay 40 bucks for a deluxe and 60 for a voyager, would you say "damn. I guess I dont have it so bad after all!" or would you think more along the lines of "well that sucks, but it dosent make it any easier for me to swallow at the checkout line"?Im inclined to believe youd lean more twards opinion B.
You are consistently wide of my points.

Option a actually. In fact that did happen when I had a UK fan point that out to me and my immediate thought was "ok point taken". I wasn't exactly jumping for joy, but my new definition of a Hasbro retail screw-over became what the UK fan goes through. Like i said, it all comes down to a sense of perspective.

Megs for pres wrote:Also, if what you imply about hasbro selling "cheap" here and making up for it by selling high in Australia is true then guess what... I didnt give the green light and Id bet no one here did either. Hell Id wager that no American did for that matter so stop acting like its an American conspiracy and were all at fault.

And yet at no point have I even remotely claimed that American transfans were the ones to give it a green light. I simply said that American fans have been pampered by prices which fall short of what the rest of the world faces to the point where US prices, up until recently, have more or less been a gravy train for American fans.

Megs for pres wrote: Once again, try to understand that we over pay in the U.S.A and the fact that you pay even more dosent lessen the impact to our wallets.

The old saying is "reality's a bitch" and that's what Americans are starting to go through with toy collecting. I realise it's disappointing and I empathise with that. But at the same time, when people panic monger with yardsticks which show a complete lack of perspective, then it's going to be a complete sympathy killer

Megs for pres wrote:Your problems with our sadness of overpaying make no sense. Ive never seen anyone deny that you pay more and that is what you say your problem is. That the Americans are oblivious correct?

Because the arguments I've heard, particularly the ones involving benchmarks, are pretty close to the equivalent of someone on the poverty line listening to some upper-middle class individual complain that they're forced to sell off their bentley. (And yes, I realise this is turning into that Monty Python skit )

Megs for pres wrote:Well there are some yoyos all over the world. It stands to reason there could be a few that for some odd reason wont believe that you pay more and happen to also be American.
My response is that those people are silly and do not represent by any stretch of the imagination the majority of U.S. collectors. They would also easily be proven wrong.

There's a difference between willful ignorance and obliviousness. Someone refusing to believe something is different to someone being completely unaware of it. Just because someone makes angry panicking claims about paying $40 for voyagers doesn't automatically imply a willful ignorance that someone pays $50.

Megs for pres wrote:If you say you pay more, I believe you and extend my condolences. Once more though. It wont make it easier for me to shell out 17.99 for a deluxe and it damn sure dosent deprive me of the right to express my concerns on this thread.

At the end of the day though you've just got to accept it one way or another - same as I did when I had to pay $36 for Beast Machines Deluxes. Either the figure is worth it or it isn't.

Megs for pres wrote:If that makes you want to assault me then you obviously have other problems,but I invite you to come try.

Actually the only time I've brought up something remotely violent was in that prison analogy, when I explicitly threw in a caveat that the only reason a violence had been implied was for the sake of accuracy in working within an analogy, that you threw into the mix. The fact is that if you piss someone off in a prison then chances are you're going to cop a beating - that's just common knowledge. If you take that as some threat of violence whilst accusing me of needing professional help, then you seriously need to step away from the keyboard for a minute and take a deep breath.

Megs for pres wrote: The way you ignore the obvious hypocrisy in your logic here (the hypocrisy ofcourse being that you chide the U.S. fans for complaining about prices as you boldly do the same) Makes no sense. It just makes you look you have some weird issue with Americans.

Really, am I making panicked cries about where prices might go, or am I simply pointing out reality - a reality that I've been living with for over a decade now, along with the rest of the world and a lack of perspective with some of the more panicked claims here. Furthermore my issue has been the discrepancy with what the US pays and what the rest of the world pays - which I have yet to see a credible argument for. You're talking about prices going up, ignoring their devalued dollar, surge in Chinese labour costs, and increase in the price of oil (and therefore plastics). My issue is with prices being fair across the globe. Once someone can credibly give me reasons why those of us in other countries pay more than the US, then I'll accept it as reasonable. That's not hypocrisy at all.

Megs for pres wrote: Finally I have been forced to bay up to 80 dollars and an average of 50 for 90% of my deluxe figures and 100 for my voyagers because I had to go ebay on the count of I started collecting late in the game. So by your own logic, I can now tell you that I dont want to hear you complain anymore because I have it worse than you. Right? Points made

[/quote]

This isn't logic, it's fallacy. No one attempting a rational argument would ever compare secondary and retail market prices and expect it to be taken seriously - beyond examining how various figures have appreciated or depreciated.

Budy your logic is flawed. At no point has anyone on this thread denied the fact that we pay less than others. You however believe you have the right to come in here with your panties in a knot whining about how we need to accept it, as you have but, you obviously have an issue with it.
You continue to say the same flawed things and I have shot them down in three posts now.
My statement about how much I paid for my figs being more expensive than yours is relevant as by your own flawed logic, it goes back to me being able to tell you that you need to quiet down because I paid more than you did.
The same thing you have done in here. Then you want to say people arent accepting oil mark ups, plastic, people making paniced asumptions, etc etc.. LOL What are you talking about pal? no such thing has been discussed here.
You are blowing something out of proportion that isnt that complicated. You are trying a bit to hard to prove yourself some kind of intellectual but have succeded only in making yourself look quite foolish.
I and obviously others hate paying inflated prices for transformers. PERIOD!!!! PERIOD!!! PERIOD!!!
As you said we gotta accept it BUT WE DONT HAVE TO STOP STATING OUR DISTASTE FOR IT. Get over yourself.
I believe I have said all I intend to say here.
I have effectively pointed out your hypocrisy and while you concede that you stopped talking about price mark ups when a u.k. chap told you he paid more you prove yourself a liar by talking about it in here. or will you only shut up when that person is present? If thats the case then please tell me how to contact him so I can have him present here now.
You have no right or reason to act like the jack a$$ your currently acting like.
Finally you say noone has given a valid reason why you guys pay more than we do.....IM NOT TRYING TO! For the last time I dont care why. Icant change it! I can however talk about how I dont like it despite the fact that you pay even more! Simple stuff my friend. No idea why you cant absorb it.
I have said enought to you. You are just one of those folks that is a waste to talk to so I bit you goodbye.

Megs for pres wrote:Budy your logic is flawed. At no point has anyone on this thread denied the fact that we pay less than others. You however believe you have the right to come in here with your panties in a knot whining about how we need to accept it, as you have but, you obviously have an issue with it.
You continue to say the same flawed things and I have shot them down in three posts now.
My statement about how much I paid for my figs being more expensive than yours is relevant as by your own flawed logic, it goes back to me being able to tell you that you need to quiet down because I paid more than you did.
The same thing you have done in here. Then you want to say people arent accepting oil mark ups, plastic, people making paniced asumptions, etc etc.. LOL What are you talking about pal? no such thing has been discussed here.
You are blowing something out of proportion that isnt that complicated. You are trying a bit to hard to prove yourself some kind of intellectual but have succeded only in making yourself look quite foolish.
I and obviously others hate paying inflated prices for transformers. PERIOD!!!! PERIOD!!! PERIOD!!!
As you said we gotta accept it BUT WE DONT HAVE TO STOP STATING OUR DISTASTE FOR IT. Get over yourself.
I believe I have said all I intend to say here.
I have effectively pointed out your hypocrisy and while you concede that you stopped talking about price mark ups when a u.k. chap told you he paid more you prove yourself a liar by talking about it in here. or will you only shut up when that person is present? If thats the case then please tell me how to contact him so I can have him present here now.
You have no right or reason to act like the jack a$$ your currently acting like.
Finally you say noone has given a valid reason why you guys pay more than we do.....IM NOT TRYING TO! Look around pal noone but you is discussing politics and economics except for you!! For the last time I dont care WHY they are more expensive. I cant change it! I can however talk about how I dont like it despite the fact that you pay even more! I come here to try to have fun talking toys but some yoyo like you always has to come in with an undeserved sense of superiority and muck everything up.
Simple stuff my friend. No idea why you cant absorb it.
I have said enought to you. You are just one of those folks that is a waste to talk to so I bit you goodbye.

Megs for pres wrote:Budy your logic is flawed. At no point has anyone on this thread denied the fact that we pay less than others.

Says the person who cannot differentiate between the terms "willful ignorance" and "obliviousness". I never argued that people were saying that. What irritated me was oblivious "you say it's nothing but get back to me when it gets up to this price" type comments when such comments come across are being oblivious to the realities of international RRPs.

Megs for pres wrote:You however believe you have the right to come in here with your panties in a knot whining about how we need to accept it, as you have but, you obviously have an issue with it.

Really, have you taken a look at the thread title. The thread title simply says "Toys r us". How on earth is anyone able to come into a thread like this with any kind of agenda or premeditated angle with a thread title so vague?

Furthermore, if you look, I'm one of several people here who have said that people need to accept the reality of things.

Megs for pres wrote: You continue to say the same flawed things and I have shot them down in three posts now.

You've shot nothing down. You cannot comprehend the differences between the meanings of simple words and your comprehension skills are so terrible that after throwing a prison analogy into the mix and my working within the confines of it, you try and claim I've threatened you with violence when the only violent statement made was done so with a caveat that it was being made purely for the sake of being true to the context of the very analogy which you threw into the mix.

Megs for pres wrote: My statement about how much I paid for my figs being more expensive than yours is relevant as by your own flawed logic, it goes back to me being able to tell you that you need to quiet down because I paid more than you did.

Yes and what is this weird and wonderful universe where you live in where 2 plus 2 miraculously equals 5.

If you're seriously trying to claim that you can compare secondary market prices to retail market prices with this sort of argument, then you need to look up the dictionary definitions of "logic" and "fallacy" as you clearly have them confused with one another.

There is a vast difference between discrepancies between RRPs in various markets where there are no rational explanations for them, and you paying higher prices because you failed to pick up figures while they were at retail.

Furthermore it could be argued that anywhere you overpaid was entirely your own fault for not bothering to determine market values before forking out for the figures you did.

Megs for pres wrote: The same thing you have done in here. Then you want to say people arent accepting oil mark ups, plastic, people making paniced asumptions, etc etc.. LOL What are you talking about pal? no such thing has been discussed here.

Oh really, then let's revisit some of the things said in this thread:

VioMeTriX wrote:so instead of complaining understand this is the nature of the business... if anyone is to blame its the housing market and those boys on wall street.

There's the state of the American economy being discussed.

xyl360 wrote:The import/export situation between the US and China is a very odd one. Our economies are very co-dependent at the moment and have been for several years. In fact, for that very reason, it's (strangely) often cheaper for the US to import goods (even FOOD) from China rather than manufacturing them domestically.

There's the Chinese link being discussed. Or does 0 people=3 people (where the third person is me, just in case I need to point that out for you as well) also count as "logic" in your mind?

Megs for pres wrote: You are blowing something out of proportion that isnt that complicated. You are trying a bit to hard to prove yourself some kind of intellectual but have succeded only in making yourself look quite foolish.

I suspect several if not every economist would dispute that point about market forces with you.

Megs for pres wrote:I and obviously others hate paying inflated prices for transformers. PERIOD!!!! PERIOD!!! PERIOD!!!

Look up the word "inflated" in the dictionary next time before you resort to ranting like this. The fact is that it's not inflation driving up prices, in which case such a claim would be valid. What is driving up prices currently is the fact that wages have gone up 30% in China and the cost of oil has skyrocketed, meaning that the cost of making action figures has gone up, meaning that the cost of them at retail has gone up. Nothing about that situation is remotely related to inflated prices.

Megs for pres wrote:As you said we gotta accept it BUT WE DONT HAVE TO STOP STATING OUR DISTASTE FOR IT. Get over yourself.

Yes and eventually it starts to get tiresome, especially when it's peppered with pricing preditions which demonstrate an obliviousness to the realities of international fans. I'm not the only one in the thread whose found it so. Do I need to quote them too, like I did when you clamed that noone was discussing economic factors here?

Megs for pres wrote:I believe I have said all I intend to say here.

And yet you not only can't help yourself by continuing on, but then decide that you need to quote yourself and repost it immediately afterwards.

Megs for pres wrote: I have effectively pointed out your hypocrisy and while you concede that you stopped talking about price mark ups when a u.k. chap told you he paid more you prove yourself a liar by talking about it in here.

No I conceded that complaining about how bad it is in Australia as though we had it the worst when they set me straight as to how bad the situation is. Since then I haven't complained about the fact that I have to pay $50 for a Voyager here per se. However I still have an issue with that price when there is no visible reason for a discrepancy between the US and other international markets and I have yet to hear an actual credible explanation for it.

Furthermore the reason I was using Australia as an example, is because none of the usual explanations for it (freight distance, exchange rates, buying power or tariffs) apply to the Australian market. You could just as easily substitute another country in that is in the exact same situation and the argument would still be the same.

Megs for pres wrote: or will you only shut up when that person is present? If thats the case then please tell me how to contact him so I can have him present here now.
You have no right or reason to act like the jack a$$ your currently acting like.
Finally you say noone has given a valid reason why you guys pay more than we do.....IM NOT TRYING TO! For the last time I dont care why. Icant change it! I can however talk about how I dont like it despite the fact that you pay even more! Simple stuff my friend. No idea why you cant absorb it.
I have said enought to you. You are just one of those folks that is a waste to talk to so I bit you goodbye.

Honestly, considering how abusive you've gotten, first with false accusations of threats of violence, secondly by implying I need professional help multiple times and now resorting to name calling, I'm giving serious thought to reporting those instances where you have crossed the line. Oh and congratulations, in the process, you've successfully managed to burn a bridge with someone who would have gone in to bat for you if someone was giving you a hard time. Well done.

Bowspearer wrote:

Megs for pres wrote:Budy your logic is flawed. At no point has anyone on this thread denied the fact that we pay less than others.

Says the person who cannot differentiate between the terms "willful ignorance" and "obliviousness". I never argued that people were saying that. What irritated me was oblivious "you say it's nothing but get back to me when it gets up to this price" type comments when such comments come across are being oblivious to the realities of international RRPs.

Megs for pres wrote:You however believe you have the right to come in here with your panties in a knot whining about how we need to accept it, as you have but, you obviously have an issue with it.

Really, have you taken a look at the thread title. The thread title simply says "Toys r us". How on earth is anyone able to come into a thread like this with any kind of agenda or premeditated angle with a thread title so vague?

Furthermore, if you look, I'm one of several people here who have said that people need to accept the reality of things.

Megs for pres wrote: You continue to say the same flawed things and I have shot them down in three posts now.

You've shot nothing down. You cannot comprehend the differences between the meanings of simple words and your comprehension skills are so terrible that after throwing a prison analogy into the mix and my working within the confines of it, you try and claim I've threatened you with violence when the only violent statement made was done so with a caveat that it was being made purely for the sake of being true to the context of the very analogy which you threw into the mix.

Megs for pres wrote: My statement about how much I paid for my figs being more expensive than yours is relevant as by your own flawed logic, it goes back to me being able to tell you that you need to quiet down because I paid more than you did.

Yes and what is this weird and wonderful universe where you live in where 2 plus 2 miraculously equals 5.

If you're seriously trying to claim that you can compare secondary market prices to retail market prices with this sort of argument, then you need to look up the dictionary definitions of "logic" and "fallacy" as you clearly have them confused with one another.

There is a vast difference between discrepancies between RRPs in various markets where there are no rational explanations for them, and you paying higher prices because you failed to pick up figures while they were at retail.

Furthermore it could be argued that anywhere you overpaid was entirely your own fault for not bothering to determine market values before forking out for the figures you did.

Megs for pres wrote: The same thing you have done in here. Then you want to say people arent accepting oil mark ups, plastic, people making paniced asumptions, etc etc.. LOL What are you talking about pal? no such thing has been discussed here.

Oh really, then let's revisit some of the things said in this thread:

VioMeTriX wrote:so instead of complaining understand this is the nature of the business... if anyone is to blame its the housing market and those boys on wall street.

There's the state of the American economy being discussed.

xyl360 wrote:The import/export situation between the US and China is a very odd one. Our economies are very co-dependent at the moment and have been for several years. In fact, for that very reason, it's (strangely) often cheaper for the US to import goods (even FOOD) from China rather than manufacturing them domestically.

There's the Chinese link being discussed. Or does 0 people=3 people (where the third person is me, just in case I need to point that out for you as well) also count as "logic" in your mind?

Megs for pres wrote: You are blowing something out of proportion that isnt that complicated. You are trying a bit to hard to prove yourself some kind of intellectual but have succeded only in making yourself look quite foolish.

I suspect several if not every economist would dispute that point about market forces with you.

Megs for pres wrote:I and obviously others hate paying inflated prices for transformers. PERIOD!!!! PERIOD!!! PERIOD!!!

Look up the word "inflated" in the dictionary next time before you resort to ranting like this. The fact is that it's not inflation driving up prices, in which case such a claim would be valid. What is driving up prices currently is the fact that wages have gone up 30% in China and the cost of oil has skyrocketed, meaning that the cost of making action figures has gone up, meaning that the cost of them at retail has gone up. Nothing about that situation is remotely related to inflated prices.

Megs for pres wrote:As you said we gotta accept it BUT WE DONT HAVE TO STOP STATING OUR DISTASTE FOR IT. Get over yourself.

Yes and eventually it starts to get tiresome, especially when it's peppered with pricing preditions which demonstrate an obliviousness to the realities of international fans. I'm not the only one in the thread whose found it so. Do I need to quote them too, like I did when you clamed that noone was discussing economic factors here?

Megs for pres wrote:I believe I have said all I intend to say here.

And yet you not only can't help yourself by continuing on, but then decide that you need to quote yourself and repost it immediately afterwards.

Megs for pres wrote: I have effectively pointed out your hypocrisy and while you concede that you stopped talking about price mark ups when a u.k. chap told you he paid more you prove yourself a liar by talking about it in here.

No I conceded that complaining about how bad it is in Australia as though we had it the worst when they set me straight as to how bad the situation is. Since then I haven't complained about the fact that I have to pay $50 for a Voyager here per se. However I still have an issue with that price when there is no visible reason for a discrepancy between the US and other international markets and I have yet to hear an actual credible explanation for it.

Furthermore the reason I was using Australia as an example, is because none of the usual explanations for it (freight distance, exchange rates, buying power or tariffs) apply to the Australian market. You could just as easily substitute another country in that is in the exact same situation and the argument would still be the same.

Megs for pres wrote: or will you only shut up when that person is present? If thats the case then please tell me how to contact him so I can have him present here now.
You have no right or reason to act like the jack a$$ your currently acting like.
Finally you say noone has given a valid reason why you guys pay more than we do.....IM NOT TRYING TO! For the last time I dont care why. Icant change it! I can however talk about how I dont like it despite the fact that you pay even more! Simple stuff my friend. No idea why you cant absorb it.
I have said enought to you. You are just one of those folks that is a waste to talk to so I bit you goodbye.

Honestly, considering how abusive you've gotten, first with false accusations of threats of violence, secondly by implying I need professional help multiple times and now resorting to name calling, I'm giving serious thought to reporting those instances where you have crossed the line. Oh and congratulations, in the process, you've successfully managed to burn a bridge with someone who would have gone in to bat for you if someone was giving you a hard time. Well done.

I lack the know how to address your quotes in the way that you have done mine. For that reason I will have to address them in the best way I know how.

#1 I have no trouble differentiating between willful ignorance and actual ignorance and I have still yet to see an example of either in this thread and for that reason you need not respond to people as if they had acted in such a way.
However, If someone truly had no idea how something worked then you have no right to flame them or to attempt to make them feel stupid for lacking that knowledge. Perhaps youd like U.S. fans to write a disclaimer proclaiming that before they type, they would first like to apologize to the rest of the world and moreover YOU for having cheaper, although still overpriced figures available to them in their stores. Would It make you feel better if they did?
You need to stop this crusade to make people believe as if the U.S.conspire to make the rest of the world pay the difference for our cheap toys. Your attitude has no place in here.

#2 The first part of your second quote makes no sense as I never questioned weather or not you knew the topic of this thread. Having said that after reading the O.P. it certainly had an obvious topic now didnt it? That topic ofcorse being that he was sad to see prices rise.
As far as the others that say people need to accept it, well thats an opinion and was said tactfully. You however have clearly taken it a step further and have used zero tact while slinging accusations and insults.

#3 My comprehension skills are just fine. Your attempt to draw from your own flaws by trying to make me look stupid is not going to work.
There was no reason for you to make the statement about how "a person with less time than someone else may just get punched if he didnt shut up" had no bearing on anything. I.M.O It was simply your attempt at an undercover way of saying people from the U.S should be struck for talking about their "petty price hikes". Hide behind my analogy all you want. We both know your intent.
Consider this though. The person who strikes the guy with less time may just end up getting his a$$ handed to him now couldnt he? Just speaking within the confines of my analogy mind you.

#4 Again, mixing my words in order to make me look silly isnt going to work. I am not comparing secondary and retail markets. Im comparing prices paid for a figure, period.
You say no one forced me to buy those figures and that I should have looked for a better deal? Well I did look and I got them as cheap as I could.
The fact is No one forced you, or anyone else to buy figures at outrageous prices either. You paid so much for them because you wanted them and had no other way to procure them. The Same as me only I paid EVEN MORE than you. Now, does that give me the right to tell you to shut up about what you pay because I have to pay even more than you? No and if it did give me the right I still wouldnt because I have sympathy for all of us who have to over pay to embrace something we love. We should all be on the same side here but people like you come along and much everything up.
You could have easily responded in this thread by saying "Yeah I hate over paying too. Get this though,I have to pay even more, so I know how you feel. Did you know that china...etc etc." Instead you want to jump up on a cross and get all pissy for no reason expecting people to kiss your butt because you think you pay more than anyone else in the WORLD.

#5 I knew you would use this as an example. Thing is this person only responded AFTER you hijacked the thread and began to your rants. He only attempted to calm you down and defend the U.S. against your silly accusations AFTER you started talking all that crap Still noone was making paniced assumptions.
As far as viometrix, one three sentence comment hardly constitutes a real discussion about the economy. You are clearly the only one here trying to make this an economics class and you are the only one who has taken it to the level that it presently resides. If you want to talk about the impact things have on economy and give your opinion about why things cost what they cost then start a new thread. Im pretty sure the rest of us come here for fun or to vent to someone who is supposed to understand their problems with figures that we all share without having to deal with some yo-yo acting like no ones problems matter as much as his because hes got it so much worse.

#6 I wasnt saying that economics werent that complicated. YOU are the one talking about economy. The rest of the thread and I are talking about friggin TOYS! Care to join us? People dont like to pay higher and higher prices and therefore want to vent about it. That sir is not that complicated.
But you knew what I ment. Your campaign to mix my words in order to dance around what I am actually saying is pathetic.

#7 LOL. Are you serious right now? O.k. Allow me to word this in a way that will hopefully be easier for you to understand for the 30th time.
The...O.P...and...alot..of...others...are...saddened...to..see..figures...go..up(inflate)in..price..therefore..they..may..choose..to..express...their...sadness...here. I dont needs to utilize a dictionary to understand this. You are the one that seems to have problems understanding whats going on here. Not me sir.

#8 It gets tiresome?....SO WHAT!! If you dont like to hear it dont read the post! Now you think you can dictate weather or not people should be allowed to predict what something might cost in the future? Who do you think you are? If everyone but you is so damn ignorant, willfully or otherwise, then why dont you simply leave because your rants sir are getting "tiresome" to read.
Anyone else who believes that people shouldnt express their sadness for climbing prices without first apologizing to people who pay more are just as bad as you.
Aslo, I guarantee you that there are plenty of people who are getting sick of your prude, undeserved sense of superiority as well as your baseless anti U.S. accusations and agree with me 100%. If you had so much support then why havnt they spoken up? Dont act as if Im alone in what I think sir.

#9 Oh good god man. Your ninth quote is all one need read to see what kind of person you are. Pointing out an obvious accidental double post and acting as if it should be made fun of? ROLL EYES. You may as well start pointing out type os as well.

#10???Wait. First you say this "Since then I haven't complained about the fact that I have to pay $50 etc"...but then you say this?? " However I still have an issue with that price etc etc"... Your whole rant boils down to price man! what are you talking about? lol!
Also, just because you dont consider an answer to be good enough dosent necessarily make it any less true. Dont forget that alot of what you were saying was simply your opinions and theories. Pure speculation.
I will say that at least you were able to get out a paragraph without looking prude or insulting someone. Were you in the correct place to discuss this I might have listened to it. That is until you got to the bit about americans conspiring to make the rest of the world pay for our cheap toys.

#11 My friend if you wish to report this then go right ahead. Dont be supprised if your the one that winds up getting a bit of a warning for your condescending, prude, insulting attitude as well as your seemingly antiamerican accusations and blatent hypocrisy.
I dont need someone going to bat for me if they are the same type of person that I was arguing with in the first place.
Equally you have burned a bridge with a person that would have bought and shipped any of the cheaply priced american toys to you simply for cost to me.
Infact Id probably still do it because thats just the type of person I am.
F.Y.I. I have since come to know and even like a few of the people I had problems with starting with a mutual apology.
I would be willing to squash this as well, but you would have to concede that you have been out of line and taken things waaaay to far throughout this thread and I dont see you as a person who is willing to admit wrong doing on any level.
Finally I am sad to see the total lack of brotherhood and respect that one would think should exist in a sight like this. I honestly dont know why I let it shock me anymore at this point.
If people like you continue to make my visits here stressful and unplesant I imagine I will simply go back to reading, rather than trying to participate in casual, civilized conversation with fans that are supposed to be talking about FRIGGIN TOYS, not HIJACKING POSTS hopping up n crosses whining about how hard they have it compared to all else.

^ Looks like an overly long temper tantrum not worth reading

moving on

Every time the U.S. cost for figures comes up those who live elsewhere point out they pay more. I don't think this fact is a surprise to anyone who's been on the boards more than month, however it doesn't mean we are not allowed to complain. Doesn't matter where you live. If the price for something goes up, people complain.

Something in one country will always be more expensive elsewhere. Chances are it'll be cheaper somewhere else too. Case in point - gas is cheaper in the US than most of Europe, but is FAR cheaper in Venezuela.

Still doesn't mean those of Venezuela won't complain when their gas prices go up.

......You basically agreed with me.

Erailea wrote:^ Looks like an overly long temper tantrum not worth reading

Oh trust me, it's a train wreck of Springeresque proportions (and I don't mean the Triple Changer ) to the point where I'm not even going to bother responding to them.

Erailea wrote:Every time the U.S. cost for figures comes up those who live elsewhere point out they pay more. I don't think this fact is a surprise to anyone who's been on the boards more than month, however it doesn't mean we are not allowed to complain. Doesn't matter where you live. If the price for something goes up, people complain.

Honestly, I think it comes down to the nature of the complaints. Every single time it inevitably takes the tone of Hasbro trying to rip people off (terms like "ridiculous" and "overly inflated" are almost consistently thrown around). The thing is that this is in the context of a known discrepancy between US and international prices, where economic conditions here in Australia for the past couple of years, have proven that the usual explanations for it are patently false.

No surprises that it leaves those of us who do live outside of the US and do respond in that way less than impressed with what we're seeing.

Erailea wrote:Something in one country will always be more expensive elsewhere. Chances are it'll be cheaper somewhere else too. Case in point - gas is cheaper in the US than most of Europe, but is FAR cheaper in Venezuela.

Still doesn't mean those of Venezuela won't complain when their gas prices go up.

The difference is that when people complain in those situations - usually, it's complaining about the why. By all means, if people want to complain about the US economy going down the tubes (sending the value of the US dollar) and the cost of oil increasing (which has pushed up the cost of plastics) by all means, go for it. If people want to come across as lowlifes and complain about wages going up 30% in China (meaning an improved standard of living for Chinese blue collar workers), by all means.

But the notion that these price rises are Hasbro deliberately trying to bleed Americans dry when there has been a 2-tiered pricing system in place by Hasbro for years (which is still there and which US fans still get the better end of the deal on) is nothing short of an absurd fallacy.

Nothing about my statements resemble a train wreck ausie and I think he wasnt just talking about me but the entire above argument INCLUDING your posts. Your arrogance has really grown stale.
Im glad you neglected to respond. Thats probably for the best as you are dead wrong.
Honestly though, can you get through a SINGLE POST WITHOUT INSULTING SOMEONE? Low life? I think that description suits you sir. Ive said it before and Ill say it again. You sound like you have an issue with americans and your throwing tantrums because our toys are cheaper than yours. Take it up with hasbro or GET OVER IT.

Alright people, I think that's enough with the tantrums. I think everything that could be said on this topic has been said unless you can think of something positive that needs added.

LOST Cybertronian wrote:Alright people, I think that's enough with the tantrums. I think everything that could be said on this topic has been said unless you can think of something positive that needs added.

One thing does come to mind. There almost needs to be some kind of obligatory warning (or at the very least an indication) in thread titles (much like with spoilers before the invention of spoiler tags) when people are going to start a thread to complain about price rises.

The thread title was "Toys R Us". How is anyone meant to know from the thread title just what in relation to TRU was being discussed? It could have been anything.

Giving a price increase complaints thread such an utterly ambiguous title is a sure-fire recipe for those who would normally give such threads a wide berth because they've grown tired of the usual "Hasbro's ripping us off" tone of them, to get sucked into them by being left to wonder about just what such a vague thread title could be referring to.

Honestly something in the thread title spelling out that it is a price increase complaints thread, would ultimately save alot of grief.

Also considering the flawed logic, coupled with blatantly taking things out of context, false allegations of threats of violence and multiple personal insults, I would strongly recommend that anyone who finds themselves in this situation put "Megs for pres" on their ignore list as I have just done.

Valandar wrote:If the price of Transformers went up the same amount since 1984 that milk has gone up, then a typical Deluxe would be (using a Seeker as the base comparison, for size reasons) $20.20

And if they increased in price as much as gasoline, then a typical Deluxe would cost over $32.00 !!!

And once again I must point this out to ANY American Transfan who is complaining about prices.

My point?

No, we do NOT have room to complain about prices. We have been UNDERPAYING for Transformers for more than fifteen years.

Here's the other thing Valandar. I glossed over this before, but after giving it some thought, it really is something which needs to be elaborated on to give those complaining a sorely needed reality check.

The thing with the prices of toys isn't just that oil has gone up or the US economy has gone bad. What's really forced prices, in particular manufacturing costs up, it's that wages have gone up 30% across the board in China.

Now before anyone claims this is obscene, I would point out that Chinese workers have traditionally been paid so poorly that they're practically sweatshop workers. Furthermore last I heard, 70% of the population live in abject poverty.

That 30% wage increase isn't like the Western world were suddenly people are able to buy that dream car or send the kids off to private schools - we're in many cases talking about the difference between living on or below the poverty line and living above it.

Yes you're paying more, but by the same token, people paid more for cotton in the US when slaves were no longer able to be used on plantations.

It ultimately comes down to this - do you want the people who make the toys you love to have a quality of life which respects their freedom, dignity and liberty (you know, the values which America prides itself on), even if it means paying a little more; or do you want people subjected to practical sweatshop labour conditions, which is a arguably a form of slavery - all so you can have cheap toys?

One thing does come to mind. There almost needs to be some kind of obligatory warning (or at the very least an indication) in thread titles (much like with spoilers before the invention of spoiler tags) when people are going to start a thread to complain about price rises.

The problem with that of course being that if you have to place a warning on price threads then you have to place a warning on any thread topic that someone may have an issue with.
Isnt it far easier to simply respect your fellow collector and his opinions? If you cannot converse without throwing out condescending, undercover, or blatant insults perhaps you shouldnt respond at all.

The thread title was "Toys R Us". How is anyone meant to know from the thread title just what in relation to TRU was being discussed? It could have been anything.

All one need to to understand the topic of this particular thread would be to read the O.P.

Giving a price increase complaints thread such an utterly ambiguous title is a sure-fire recipe for those who would normally give such threads a wide berth because they've grown tired of the usual "Hasbro's ripping us off" tone of them, to get sucked into them by being left to wonder about just what such a vague thread title could be referring to.

Do you realize that you speak of growing tired of american fans talking about hasbro "ripping them off" while you yourself speak of hasbro ripping off the entire globe for the sake of keeping american toys cheap.
Again if you cannot respond in a respectful nature, perhaps you should consider not responding at all. If youve grown tired of american sadness over rising prices maybe you should take a nap?

Also considering the flawed logic, coupled with blatantly taking things out of context, false allegations of threats of violence and multiple personal insults, I would strongly recommend that anyone who finds themselves in this situation put "Megs for pres" on their igno
re list as I have just done.

Yet you fail to mention or acknowledge your own insults to me, other posters and any american collector that cares to mention his sadness over rising prices.
Honestly, you try to hide it behind the toy prices, but I can see straight through it. You come off as if You harbor a disdain for americans.
There should be no other sight as lighthearted and inherently fun as a sight dedicated to toys. Its sad that a hand full of grouchy opinionated people can wreak havoc on a thread that was started and responded to innocently.
Perhaps I expect too much. Also, If I myself have ruined the experience of any other member with my responses here, or at any other time I sincerely apologize.
I myself come here to converse with fellow fans about toys, cartoons and other fun subjects. I take issue with anyone who tries to lessen the positive experience one should have whilst visiting this sight and have no desire to mimic those whom I do not agree with.
Have a great day!

Do you guys have to ruin EVERY thread with your petty arguments? How about just discussing the topic, instead of trying to one-up each other and turning every discussion into an argument? I'm not naming names, but you know who you are. This entire forum has become an unpleasant place over the last few days because a few of you are just acting like children.

I just spent about 25% more at Toys R Us...and by "just" I mean about fifteen minutes ago to be exact.

It's a bit steep, but it meant that I got to sneak off during my lunchbreak, find some cool items, and have them in hand.

In fact, these are items that I pre-ordered slightly cheaper elsewhere, but TRU had them on the shelf, and my pre-order hasn't even shipped. I might end up keeping them in package and returning them if my pre-order ever gets in the mail.

Sure, I would like to pay less, but I felt the extra ten bucks or so was, in this case, worth the pleasure of finding something I wanted, getting excited to pick it up, and not worrying about if the item would ship, whether it would end up at the right address, when it would get here, and what condition it would be in.

I also stopped at some other stores on my way back from lunch where I suspected I might find the items for a buck or two cheaper, but none had the items in-stock.

So, in the end, my purchase expresses my willingness to pay a little more on these items to own them now. (Although this also means that I'll have to forego buying some other items...at least for a couple of weeks.)

Now, as for all this debate about complaining or not complaining:
I think it's helpful for retailers and manufacturers to hear from consumers who are nearing their limits of what they are willing to spend. If they heed genuine warning signs, then it will prevent them from overproduction. If they think they can sell more than we can buy, they'll end up with losses. It helps more, however, if we can voice those complaints in a civil, respectful, and articulate manner...otherwise, we just look like whiners who want something for nothing.

GuyIncognito wrote:Do you guys have to ruin EVERY thread with your petty arguments? How about just discussing the topic, instead of trying to one-up each other and turning every discussion into an argument? I'm not naming names, but you know who you are. This entire forum has become an unpleasant place over the last few days because a few of you are just acting like children.

I have to agree. I should have simply let it go awhile back but Its a bit hard not to respond when someone acts that way while mixing your words. I ll woRk on it O.K?
As I said above I truly apologize to you and anyone else if I have ruined your time here.

Having said that, I have noticed that you dont always have a positive attitude either. Perhaps you should try to be more lighten up too.
That wasnt ment as an insult or to start another mess, just advice that if taken would help the forum.
Take care.

I think it's helpful for retailers and manufacturers to hear from consumers who are nearing their limits of what they are willing to spend. If they heed genuine warning signs, then it will prevent them from overproduction. If they think they can sell more than we can buy, they'll end up with losses. It helps more, however, if we can voice those complaints in a civil, respectful, and articulate manner...otherwise, we just look like whiners who want something for nothing.

This. Its all about respect. Anything can be discussed and opinions can be conveyed so long as fans affords other fans the same respect they would have people afford them.
Were all fans here. It should be a pleasant experience to visit seibertron.

Megs for Pres i am coming to you as a friend....STOP.... you seem to have the same or similar arguments with everyone man... you need to realize everyone is not going to agree with you, and we are all entitled to our own opinion. i have noticed a pattern with you... you come in with your better than you attitutde, then when someone make s a point you dont like you go into some hannibal lecter double speak that is suppossed to make you look smart and educated, yet 80% of the population here just doesnt like you. please step back and take a really good look at this... and i hope you dont just come back with a reply pointing out my faults or how the universe is wrong and against you.

VioMeTriX wrote:Megs for Pres i am coming to you as a friend....STOP.... you seem to have the same or similar arguments with everyone man... you need to realize everyone is not going to agree with you, and we are all entitled to our own opinion. i have noticed a pattern with you... you come in with your better than you attitutde, then when someone make s a point you dont like you go into some hannibal lecter double speak that is suppossed to make you look smart and educated, yet 80% of the population here just doesnt like you. please step back and take a really good look at this... and i hope you dont just come back with a reply pointing out my faults or how the universe is wrong and against you.

If you have taken from my posts that I believe myself better than everyone else then I have missconveyed myself. I think no such thing.
Similarly, If I have come off as if I place no value on others opinions then I have twice misrepresented myself.
However, I doubt that 80% of the fans here would agree with your assessment of me.
All I can do is try to respect everyone and their opinions and I think I have done a pretty good job of it. I challenge you to show me one instance where I flew off the handle for no reason as a result of someones conflicting opinion.
Have you read the entire thread? I know it gets tired fast, but its important that you realize that it was not I who began the insults, better than you attitude and complete disrespect of others opinions. It a few others.
I mean honestly, I cant see why anyone else didnt feel that there were far deeper reasons that that guy had issues with the U.S.A. than toys. Every time the U.S. was mentioned there was a sarcastic, rude remark attached to it.
You yourself expressed your opinion on the matter and did so without insulting anyone, or coming off as if you simply want americans to shut up and stop voicing their opinions so It can be done.
I REALLY dont want to go on about this subject any longer but I will say again that if I have come across to you as If I believe myself better than everyone then I apologize and you wish to say that nothing could be further from the truth.
Also, The earlier problems I had were completely different than this issue.
Thanks for the constructive criticizim, It is noted and I will try not to come off that way in the future.
However If I am disrespected regularly by a member, or someone is just flat being a **** for no reason over extended periods of time, I will most likely point it out. I believe you would as well.
If you care to continue this discussion further That is fine, but lets do so via P.M. so as not to further stray of course of the threads intent. I dont want to be the reason a thread is locked ya know?
Take care pal.

well i think your long drawn out defending yourself speaks volumes, and the exact point i try to make. well you either grow up like i did, or eventually get banned. i wish you the best, and try to resist the urge to reply to this. have a great day...