Me, Grimlock! wrote:I remember someone saying on a site somewhere (maybe even this one) that they had 3 separate ones. That's where I got my number. I counted two, too. But, in the spirit of my original point, the cartoon continuity is messy; I was pointing out that the writers weren't too clean in creating character histories, whether fans could later reconcile them or not. Two origins or three, the writers didn't use any rhyme or reason in writing these histories even if fans can somehow reconcile it all 20 years later. Who's to say they were more careful when writing about the Matrix?
Agreed.
Me, Grimlock! wrote:I was saying "duh" precisely because it was obvious and you pointed it out already (one of those "we knew that already; get on with it" duhs).
Ok now I understand.I thought you ment it more like a "Homer Simpson duh".
Me, Grimlock! wrote:Aaarrrggghhhh... I did forget. There goes my theory. I remember only once (when Galvatron steals it from Magnus until when he fights Hot Rod in the belly of Unicron), but I'll take your word for it. You obviously have a better memory than I do.
I still stand by my original point, which doesn't apply to the comics but might help nullify any attempt to explain the cartoon. G1 cartoon history is messy, so I don't think any of it is reliable in telling us what happens when someone gets the Matrix. I really don't think there IS any single explanation. As fans, we might be able to come up with reconciliations, but it would be haphazard. The writers weren't too careful when they wrote their episodes.
Again, can't speak for the comics.
Thats kind of been my point....with the fact that the cartoon continuity is so messed up and so many thing were just not shown we really cant say that Optimus was not changed by the Matrix.
Saber Prime wrote:1. In their first appearance Megatron says "It was worth all that time building them.
That could have been a "Metaphor" and could have ment that they built them new bodies on earth.
Saber Prime wrote:2. The Omega Supreme "they were reprogramed" origin.
Which doesnt change anything if their new bodies were built on earth.
Saber Prime wrote:3. They built Megatron.
No that was never said.....but it was implyed by the animation.
And ether way it doesnt change ether origin story.Just because Megatron reprogramed the Constructions to evil bots does not meen that they could not have partisapated in Megatrons creation years earlyer.
And who's to say that was the same team of Constructions [from season 1] that build Megatron.There's good reason to question that little fact.
We see 7 or 8 constructions surrounding the table when the narrator say's the words "Megatron was born".
Since we know that TF's arent born we know the words were ment as a Metaphor" and since we know the Constructions were a team of 6 and not 7 or 8 we know we might not be seeing the real Construction team.
And since we know the word "Born" to be a "Metaphor" for being created then it may be that Megatron was created by "A" teem of Constructions but not the team that we met in season 1.
And while we're on the topic....those constructions could have been doing to Megatron the very same thing that was done to Opion Pax.
They may have been rebuilding some un-named bot into Megatron.
We just dont know.
Jeep! wrote:Bingo. You can't really reconcile 2 and 3, as "Five Faces of Darkness" definately makes them out to be 'evil' when they built Megatron.
I just did.
And building something that turns out to be evil is no indication that the creator['s] is evil....no more then the parents of an evil person is an indication that the parents are evil.
You can see evidence of both in other forms of Si/Fi fiction and real life history.
Jeep! wrote:And I do believe we're all forgetting the earliest Matrix-bearer shown in the G1 cartoon. U-Haul Robot, who didn't change forms either, isn't called anything(imus) Prime, and is officially named U-Haul Robot in the script.
Have you seen the script???
I did when I was working as an intern at Marvel and he's referred to as "past autobot leader" and nothing more.
Dont put so much fate into what you read on Wike and its sister sites.
Unless theres more then one version of that script which is possible.
And being named "U-Haul bot" in a script wouldnt have been official because they would have had to secured the rights from U-Haul to make it official and it would also mean Alpha Trions offical name should be "old bot" since it was the working name he was givven in an early draft for the script of "The search for Alpha Trion" or that " Nightbird" should be called "Female Niga Robot" since it was also a name for the character in an early script of the episode "Enter the Nightbird".
"U-Haul bot" would have only been a working knick name givven to differentiate one past leader from the other in the animation or voicing part of the episodes production and by no means is an official name.
And him not changing form could meen that he doesnt have a "infinity" to the Matrix just like Ultra Magnus didnt.
It proves nothing.
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