The Energon Pub

This is probably a silly question to the fans who have been around forever, but I'm just getting back in after a couple decades off and I am REALLY lost in the maze that has become Transformers.

My first Transformer was Vintage Optimus Prime back in '84 with megatron following close behind... TF were never my FAVORITE line (that was He-man) and at their price, my parents didn't get me more then 8-10 I think... but I always loved the image of them. Seeing some of the G1 Stuff nowdays has started pushing me to grab a few favorites again.

Everywhere I look I see the same characters, with different sizes and scales and designs, usually listed with codes that arent' very intuitive...

For example, A couple years ago, I picked up the classics version of Hound w/Ravage and Hot Rod and an alternater Prowl... Then masterpiece Optimus Prime came out and he was just huge...

Now I picked up the Masterpiece 'year of the horse' Optimus and his size is smaller then masterpiece but bigger then the figures I had (which I need to dig out of storage now...) Now I've picked up Masterpiece Prowl, who is smaller then horse Prime... but still fairly in scale. I mean, Prime should be taller then the average bot...


Now I'm starting to get a bug for some of my old time favorite G1 figures, but having a bear of a time figuring out who is 'in scale' with who?? Is there a G1 megatron that is in scale with Horse Prime? I saw one, but it looked like it was too big and on scale with the early giant Prime... For that matter there was G2 (I think) masterpiece starscream right next to Horse Prime at TRU, but he seemed massive too... and not my favorite 'style'...

Now I see all a dozen sub-lines, and words like voyager deluxe and legendary... but I'm not sure what they mean... It looks like this is a collection to get online... but there seem to be a dozen companies making cool looking figures, but I'm not seeing any sizes or heights, and at THIS price... I don't like guessing.

I'd love a Devastor that was massive... and G1 inspired,

Is there some sort of website or tutorial or size comparison chart that is out here that may help some new(er) guys.

"Didn't get me more than 8 or 10"...

Dude, I had four Transformers. Every other transforming 'bot I had was a cheap knockoff or a Convertor.

As for navigating... well, that's up to you. There's so many different sizes, versions of characters, continuities, and such that I suggest you simply look theough the galleries and the TF Wiki, and decide where you wanna go from there.

Welcome to the boards! Just beware of the odd nut. We tried chasing them out a while back, but there may some stragglers.

I know how convoluted the Transformers line can be: it's been going non-stop for over 30 years! Thankfully we have plenty of resources around the net, I'll share some of the ones I use on a regular basis:

TFU.info: a figure database with most of the figures listed, including accessories. It even lists Gobots (now part of Hasbro ever since Tonka was bought out in the 1990's) and even has a figure identification tool.
TFWiki.net: the main wiki, with more info than you can shake a stick at, including the really obscure stuff.
The Seibertron.com Galleries: Chuckfull of photos taken by the webmaster himself.

... and of course the forum where you are now

The G1 scene is already messy with Generations, Masterpiece, 3rd Party and then some, but if you manage to organise it it's not so bad. If you need help, go ahead and ask, that's what we're here for

Jelze gave you a great answer that covers everything but here is a simpler one based on what you asked.

There are many scales but it seems there are only 2 you would need to worry about, especially if you are only getting back to it slowly.

There is a CHUG scale and a Masterpiece 2.0 Scale.

Here are more details if you want me to expand on that.

Now, I know the masterpiece Optimus you got, the huge one, is out of scale with the rest and thats why a few years ago they rebooted the scale with another Optimus (the G1 coloured version of the Year of the horse one you have) and everything under the masterpiece line since then has been in the "right" scale more or less. Pretty much if the code of the toy is MP-10 or higher (MP-15, Mp-20), they are all in scale. The only Masterpiece in scale with that big optimus you have is Masterpiece Megatron. They have not yet made a new masterpiece megatron to go with the new Optimus you have (the same toy used for year of the horse optimus).

The other scale I mentioned is the CHUG scale. CHUG is an acronym for lines that have had the similar purpose of bringing back classic charcters in updated forms and engineering. Thats where your Hound is from. The line that make up this scale and notion is the Classics Line (C), the Henkei line (H, its the same as classics but the japanese version), the Universe line (U, where your Hound comes from), the Generations line (G, which is still going on today), and the Reveal the Shield line. Those toys pretty much scale well. The best optimus to scale with your Hound would thus be "classics" Optimus. Or you could also get the "Generations" optimus that just came out.

Therse below are all from the Universe line and work well together




These are the two Optimuses that could work with your Hound for the CHUG scale.

On the left is Classics Voyager Optimus and on the Right is Generations Voyager Optimus. He can be bought at your local toysrus right now if you want. The other is ahrder to find, but you can either get him online or also at your toysrus since they rereleased him recently in a two pack for the latest transformers movie.



I would suggest you start with this scale, the CHUG scale since there are more and you can build a fun collection and they are less pricey when they come out. The masterpiece line is very pricey and few come out every year.

If you want to know what toys out there are worth getting into, I recomend this thread which helped me get into collecting, as well as this article.

Masterpiece is an attempt to recreate the original G1 characters as perfectly as possible, in robot mode scale as best as possible - MP1 Optimus being the odd, oversized one out (Mp10 on the other hand, is in scale, with you have the year of the horse version of.

Legends, Deluxe, Voyager, Leader, Titan all refer to size classes of the more consumer/younger audience target series. Designed as such for two reasons, keep prices/packaging consistent for each size class for retailers, and to let buyers know the respective size of what they're buying. With the list above, the price and size to up left to right.
For the most part, a character release fits the scale of their original character (with exceptions for the more popular guys, who get multiple releases.) Characters that were minibots in G1 like Swerve, Tailgate and Huffer get Legends releases, typical car/plane sized guys like Starscream, Prowl, Wheeljack etc get Deluxe releases. Combined limbs also get Deluxe releases. Bigger guys like Optimus, Brainstorm, Springer and combiner team leaders get Voyager releases. Really big guys like Jetfire, Megatron and (rumoured) Ultra Magnus have leader sized figures. So far Titan class has only been used for Metroplex (city size character) But it looks to be used for Devastator later this year.

Some big/popular characters like OP/Bumblebee/Megatron/Starscream have been released at multiple size classes - Megatron in all four of the smaller sizes so far, most recently as legends to interact with Metroplex, but for the most part they fit in with the sizes mentioned above so scale of the robot modes is roughly fiction accurate.

Edit: the above was for the classics-generations line - movie lines are a little different, with a lot of one-step/gimmick releases this time around in addition to the above size classes

its pretty easy actually. just look at continuities, find out what you like for aesthetics, general size you preffer, ect. you strike me as a classics/generations or masterpiece kinda guy. to answer a couple questions, check out these neat fellas!

a third party masterpieces megatron that scales with MP10 convoy (your year of the horse prime). he's made by x-transbots, and named apollyon.

*prototype*


and the teased upcoming generations/combiner wars devastator! speculation is we're a couple weeks away from an official reveal

william-james88 wrote:
On the left is Classics Voyager Optimus and on the Right is Generations Voyager Optimus. He can be bought at your local toysrus right now if you want.

Heh, I wish. You shouldn't make such sweeping claims, with distribution being as shoddy and regional as it is.

Optimum Supreme wrote:

william-james88 wrote:
On the left is Classics Voyager Optimus and on the Right is Generations Voyager Optimus. He can be bought at your local toysrus right now if you want.

Heh, I wish. You shouldn't make such sweeping claims, with distribution being as shoddy and regional as it is.

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=45534906&cp=&parentPage=search

http://amzn.com/B00NYSSELW

Good luck Phantom in the fandom; the links Jelze gave you will be perfect tools for research and exploring.

Focus on one toyline. If MP go MP, Generation, generations. If you are young and patient, G1 vintage (took me 30 years to "nearly" complete Season 1 and 2 characters)

Thanks for the help guys! That Appolyon looks amazing. Definitely going on the list...

Bit bummed that it sounds like the Classics aren't in the same scale as the masterpiece... but whatcha gonna do.

Anyone know how these new combiner Wars are gonna match up? Will that Superion be tall enough to justify in a MP display?

How about all these 3rd party companies.. are they all trying to match masterpiece or are they going to be hit or miss too?

For that matter... How are they even able to do that?? I'm surprised there isn't some copyright something or other that gets the hammer dropped on them.

How do they compare? They look just as expensive (if not more) then the 'legitimate' figures...

Valandar wrote:"Didn't get me more than 8 or 10"...

Dude, I had four Transformers. Every other transforming 'bot I had was a cheap knockoff or a Convertor.

Yeah... it was a weird collection for me... I also had a few of the Go-bots (because they were cheaper) but as a kid, I had Optimus, Megatron (who broke pretty quick IIRC) Slag, Sludge, Perceptor, mmmm... SOMETHING else... Drawing a blank. Eventually when I got older I got a Rerelease of Hot Rod and a KO of Devastator.

I had a couple friends who had toyboxs FULL of them though... Shockwave, Soundwave, all the cassettes... Combiners.. minicars... the whole works. I was very jealous, but I was drowning in MOTU, Superheroes and eventually TMNT... Just not enough cash to go around

I'm pretty strong G1 fan and got hooked on Beast Wars when it came out... but I'm never gonna be a 'completist' by any means. I have my favorites that I always loved... the main characters from the shows... and the ones I always wanted as a kid.

Most of the other ones, I don't even know.

phantom1592 wrote:Thanks for the help guys! That Appolyon looks amazing. Definitely going on the list...

Bit bummed that it sounds like the Classics aren't in the same scale as the masterpiece... but whatcha gonna do.

Anyone know how these new combiner Wars are gonna match up? Will that Superion be tall enough to justify in a MP display?

How about all these 3rd party companies.. are they all trying to match masterpiece or are they going to be hit or miss too?

For that matter... How are they even able to do that?? I'm surprised there isn't some copyright something or other that gets the hammer dropped on them.

How do they compare? They look just as expensive (if not more) then the 'legitimate' figures...

For a long while, most 3P guys were creating classics style releases, usually starting with add on kits, then moving to full figures, combiners especially, though there were one or two groups specialising in movie based addons for existing figures and WFC/FOC game based designs

Nowadays everyone seems to be jumping on the Masterpiece bandwagon, usually for characters that aren't likely to be done officially any time soon (except for KFC's Citizen Stack/Ultra Magnus - oops)

You'll find many of us here collect multiple lines, ie classics and masterpiece, but display them separately.
Personally I'm mostly classics, with the occasional movie or Prime based figure if I think it fits my criteria for display.

Unlike a lot of other toy/collectible lines, there are so many different sets of aesthetics throughout the Transformers history that everyone has a different preference or idea on what fits an what doesn't, it's a great source of debate and discussion.

When it comes down to it, just get the figures you like, and display how you want to.

phantom1592 wrote:Thanks for the help guys! That Appolyon looks amazing. Definitely going on the list...

Bit bummed that it sounds like the Classics aren't in the same scale as the masterpiece... but whatcha gonna do.

Anyone know how these new combiner Wars are gonna match up? Will that Superion be tall enough to justify in a MP display?

How about all these 3rd party companies.. are they all trying to match masterpiece or are they going to be hit or miss too?

For that matter... How are they even able to do that?? I'm surprised there isn't some copyright something or other that gets the hammer dropped on them.

How do they compare? They look just as expensive (if not more) then the 'legitimate' figures...

The new combiners are part of Generations so they scale with the Classics (CHUG). The combiners wont scale with the Masterpiece figures, they would be too small. However, the announced Devastator toy will be on scale with the masterpiece figures.

3rd party companies these days are trying more to match the masterpiece scale although some match the classics too. And yes, Hasbro could take them to court, but its such a niche market that it wouldn't be worth it money wise aside from setting a precedent and scaring others. These company might be making money with the likeness of characters owned by Hasbro but its not like they are actually competitors in their eyes since so few people buy these third party toys in the big picture (and most that do also buy the hasbro toys). And plus, it might work for them as some type of market research.

Also, for third parties, since they arent produced on a mass scale, they are always more expensive (double, triple, or quadruple the price). And the comparison varies. The trend so far is that they always make toys that are not yet made by Hasbro, but then Hasbro makes it and does a pretty good job, rendering a drop in the value of the third party item due to the fact that the official version of the character is available at a much lower cost (even if the third party may have better articulation). Third party toy owners will sear to these toys' quality though.

i dont want to imply that 3P is the be-all-end-all, but there is a lot of stuff worth investigating. so far theyre the only ones doing MP scaled combiners, though speculation is that CW devastator will fit the bill.

unique toys is making a large (many would agree MP scaled) abominus.



the other guys making big combiners is warbotron. theyre almost done releasing their bruticus, and (i think) just started releasing their computron.





there is an inherent issue issue with 3P combiners (in my experience). they can make phenomenal display pieces, but be incredibly delicate or fidgety. this can make some of them very irritating to play around with. the other elephant in the room is the price, theres no getting around the fact that theyre very much an investment. if you plan to take the dive, do some research first (youtube reviews and such).

and please dont discount official stuff. the combiner wars hitting the shelves arent quite as flashy as their 3P brethren, but they are functional, cheap, and fun as all hell. i highly recommend looking into them!

phantom1592 wrote:I'm pretty strong G1 fan and got hooked on Beast Wars when it came out... but I'm never gonna be a 'completist' by any means. I have my favorites that I always loved... the main characters from the shows... and the ones I always wanted as a kid.

Hasbro recently released some updated BW figures in their classics line such as Rattrap, Waspinator, and Rhinox. You may still be able to find Rattrap & Rhinox at Target/Walmart/TRU. All three are really well done updates of the figures.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Welcome to the boards! Just beware of the odd nut. We tried chasing them out a while back, but there may some stragglers.

I know how convoluted the Transformers line can be: it's been going non-stop for over 30 years! Thankfully we have plenty of resources around the net, I'll share some of the ones I use on a regular basis:

TFU.info: a figure database with most of the figures listed, including accessories. It even lists Gobots (now part of Hasbro ever since Tonka was bought out in the 1990's) and even has a figure identification tool.
TFWiki.net: the main wiki, with more info than you can shake a stick at, including the really obscure stuff.
The Seibertron.com Galleries: Chuckfull of photos taken by the webmaster himself.

... and of course the forum where you are now

The G1 scene is already messy with Generations, Masterpiece, 3rd Party and then some, but if you manage to organise it it's not so bad. If you need help, go ahead and ask, that's what we're here for

Those are fantastic sites, but if you just want a simple G1 breakdown of tech specs and instructions, Botch's Transformers Box Art Archive is a good one. Given that there's so many variations to each character lately, I would suggest to find the one that works for you and move on quickly before you get bogged down

SnapTrap wrote:

phantom1592 wrote:I'm pretty strong G1 fan and got hooked on Beast Wars when it came out... but I'm never gonna be a 'completist' by any means. I have my favorites that I always loved... the main characters from the shows... and the ones I always wanted as a kid.

Hasbro recently released some updated BW figures in their classics line such as Rattrap, Waspinator, and Rhinox. You may still be able to find Rattrap & Rhinox at Target/Walmart/TRU. All three are really well done updates of the figures.

I liked them a lot better when they were the only game in town. Now that the world's shifted back toward G1 cast, I really don't feel the need to recollect Beast Wars... Still have a fondness in my heart for them though. Hated Beast Machines...

Still, I'd get an Optimus Primal or Optimal Optimus again... or Silverbolt. Always loved them