The Energon Pub

buddhaquest wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:Everytime I look at the Machine Wars figures, I see what should have been-

Ultra Magnus, Springer, Hot Rod, Blurr, Kup, Wreck-Gar
Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, 3 Sweeps

Which mold do you see Hot Rod in?

*each with G1 color schemes

Optimus Prime - Ultra Magnus
Sandstorm - Springer
Hot Rod/Blurr - Mirage/Prowl
Hubcap/Hoist - Kup/Wreck-Gar

Soundwave - Galvatron
Starscream - Cyclonus
Megatron/Megaplex - Scourge
Skywarp/Thundercracker - (3)Sweeps

Anyway, I've always been curious if these would have sold a little better if they had been these characters.

Considering that the Mirage/Prowl, Megatron/Megaplex, and Stalker molds actually bear visual resemblances to Mirage, Megatron, and Soundwave, respectively, in those cases, I doubt it.

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:Everytime I look at the Machine Wars figures, I see what should have been-

Ultra Magnus, Springer, Hot Rod, Blurr, Kup, Wreck-Gar
Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, 3 Sweeps

Which mold do you see Hot Rod in?

*each with G1 color schemes

Optimus Prime - Ultra Magnus
Sandstorm - Springer
Hot Rod/Blurr - Mirage/Prowl
Hubcap/Hoist - Kup/Wreck-Gar

Soundwave - Galvatron
Starscream - Cyclonus
Megatron/Megaplex - Scourge
Skywarp/Thundercracker - (3)Sweeps

Anyway, I've always been curious if these would have sold a little better if they had been these characters.

Considering that the Mirage/Prowl, Megatron/Megaplex, and Stalker molds actually bear visual resemblances to Mirage, Megatron, and Soundwave, respectively, in those cases, I doubt it.

Even if Stalker resembling Soundwave was a pure happy accident.

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:Everytime I look at the Machine Wars figures, I see what should have been-

Ultra Magnus, Springer, Hot Rod, Blurr, Kup, Wreck-Gar
Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, 3 Sweeps

Which mold do you see Hot Rod in?

*each with G1 color schemes

Optimus Prime - Ultra Magnus
Sandstorm - Springer
Hot Rod/Blurr - Mirage/Prowl
Hubcap/Hoist - Kup/Wreck-Gar

Soundwave - Galvatron
Starscream - Cyclonus
Megatron/Megaplex - Scourge
Skywarp/Thundercracker - (3)Sweeps

Anyway, I've always been curious if these would have sold a little better if they had been these characters.

Considering that the Mirage/Prowl, Megatron/Megaplex, and Stalker molds actually bear visual resemblances to Mirage, Megatron, and Soundwave, respectively, in those cases, I doubt it.

...and the other molds look nothing like Prowl, Starscream, or Hubcap. They could have named them "Cliffjumper", "Thunderwing", and "Grimlock" and no one would have questioned it.

buddhaquest wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:Everytime I look at the Machine Wars figures, I see what should have been-

Ultra Magnus, Springer, Hot Rod, Blurr, Kup, Wreck-Gar
Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, 3 Sweeps

Which mold do you see Hot Rod in?

*each with G1 color schemes

Optimus Prime - Ultra Magnus
Sandstorm - Springer
Hot Rod/Blurr - Mirage/Prowl
Hubcap/Hoist - Kup/Wreck-Gar

Soundwave - Galvatron
Starscream - Cyclonus
Megatron/Megaplex - Scourge
Skywarp/Thundercracker - (3)Sweeps

Anyway, I've always been curious if these would have sold a little better if they had been these characters.

Considering that the Mirage/Prowl, Megatron/Megaplex, and Stalker molds actually bear visual resemblances to Mirage, Megatron, and Soundwave, respectively, in those cases, I doubt it.

...and the other molds look nothing like Prowl, Starscream, or Hubcap. They could have named them "Cliffjumper", "Thunderwing", and "Grimlock" and no one would have questioned it.

Hence my specific use of what's in bold.

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

buddhaquest wrote:Everytime I look at the Machine Wars figures, I see what should have been-

Ultra Magnus, Springer, Hot Rod, Blurr, Kup, Wreck-Gar
Galvatron, Cyclonus, Scourge, 3 Sweeps

Which mold do you see Hot Rod in?

*each with G1 color schemes

Optimus Prime - Ultra Magnus
Sandstorm - Springer
Hot Rod/Blurr - Mirage/Prowl
Hubcap/Hoist - Kup/Wreck-Gar

Soundwave - Galvatron
Starscream - Cyclonus
Megatron/Megaplex - Scourge
Skywarp/Thundercracker - (3)Sweeps

Anyway, I've always been curious if these would have sold a little better if they had been these characters.

Considering that the Mirage/Prowl, Megatron/Megaplex, and Stalker molds actually bear visual resemblances to Mirage, Megatron, and Soundwave, respectively, in those cases, I doubt it.

...and the other molds look nothing like Prowl, Starscream, or Hubcap. They could have named them "Cliffjumper", "Thunderwing", and "Grimlock" and no one would have questioned it.

Hence my specific use of what's in bold.

I understand that. You are saying they should be these characters because they "resemble" the originals in some way. I'm saying - Why can't they be these other characters just because they don't resemble the originals? Just because someone's head looks like Soundwave's doesn't mean they couldn't be Optimus Prime... I need to stop drinking before noon.


Also, having these figures be characters from the '86 movie may have had a stronger impact on nostalgic collectors at the time... most of which were living in a world where the only new Transformers were Beast Wars figures. I was one of them... doing awful things in college.

It makes me wonder if the decision to bring back Machine Wars in 2013 has to do with any decisions made by TOMY for their own revival stuff. Because if Hasbro is reviving this very obscure line, then it can mean TOMY is going to be doing something interesting when it comes to Generation 1. Hmmm...

In all cases, unless I face some kind of financial issues, I may have to attend this year. I'll just hope it is closer to California this year.

...dude abuses ellipses more than I do.

I really hope the location is in Atlanta, Chicago, or NYC and not some hole in the wall city in middle ammerica. That is the only way Ill be going this year. I can do without Machine wars. If anything is cool enough, I get it on e-bay.

So..... what happens when Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Optimus Prime meets Timelines Thunderclash?

Deathsanras wrote:So..... what happens when Botcon 2013 Machine Wars Optimus Prime meets Timelines Thunderclash?

The Multiverse would implode.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:It makes me wonder if the decision to bring back Machine Wars in 2013 has to do with any decisions made by TOMY for their own revival stuff. Because if Hasbro is reviving this very obscure line, then it can mean TOMY is going to be doing something interesting when it comes to Generation 1. Hmmm...

In all cases, unless I face some kind of financial issues, I may have to attend this year. I'll just hope it is closer to California this year.

What FunPub decides to release has nothing to do with what Hasbro is planning so I doubt this has anything to do with TakaraTomy's plans.

FunPub's only restriction is they cannot use molds that Hasbro is currently using.

Mkall wrote:

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:It makes me wonder if the decision to bring back Machine Wars in 2013 has to do with any decisions made by TOMY for their own revival stuff. Because if Hasbro is reviving this very obscure line, then it can mean TOMY is going to be doing something interesting when it comes to Generation 1. Hmmm...

In all cases, unless I face some kind of financial issues, I may have to attend this year. I'll just hope it is closer to California this year.

What FunPub decides to release has nothing to do with what Hasbro is planning so I doubt this has anything to do with TakaraTomy's plans.

FunPub's only restriction is they cannot use molds that Hasbro is currently using.

Actually, it is more complicated than that. Fun Pub only has access to anything that they license from Hasbro, and any collaborations tied to TOMY. And so on. Lets just say that TOMY is technically on the top of the chain and Fun Pub is only there is a licensee.

Which leads to my speculation. You did know that 10 years prior to Machine Wars (which are primarily altered pieces based on the European Generations 2 line), Headmasters and Targetmasters debuted... Right? However, TOMY made it clear that Fortress Maximus (Encore 23) is the 25th anniversary piece for their series. Which could have caused an issue, even though Fun Pub could have done a "Generation 2" take on portions of Hasbro's line. And 2013 is also the anniversary of the Pretenders line, but it appears that TOMY may have possible plans with that as well (i.e. Generations 2013).

So what do you do when other anniversaries are popping up, and may conflict with any possible plans that either Hasbro or TOMY have in store? You take something that neither will touch and give it a proper anniversary revival. Hence the speculation.

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:

Mkall wrote:

KUMA-NIN Maximus wrote:It makes me wonder if the decision to bring back Machine Wars in 2013 has to do with any decisions made by TOMY for their own revival stuff. Because if Hasbro is reviving this very obscure line, then it can mean TOMY is going to be doing something interesting when it comes to Generation 1. Hmmm...

In all cases, unless I face some kind of financial issues, I may have to attend this year. I'll just hope it is closer to California this year.

What FunPub decides to release has nothing to do with what Hasbro is planning so I doubt this has anything to do with TakaraTomy's plans.

FunPub's only restriction is they cannot use molds that Hasbro is currently using.

Actually, it is more complicated than that. Fun Pub only has access to anything that they license from Hasbro, and any collaborations tied to TOMY. And so on. Lets just say that TOMY is technically on the top of the chain and Fun Pub is only there is a licensee.

Which leads to my speculation. You did know that 10 years prior to Machine Wars (which are primarily altered pieces based on the European Generations 2 line), Headmasters and Targetmasters debuted... Right? However, TOMY made it clear that Fortress Maximus (Encore 23) is the 25th anniversary piece for their series. Which could have caused an issue, even though Fun Pub could have done a "Generation 2" take on portions of Hasbro's line. And 2013 is also the anniversary of the Pretenders line, but it appears that TOMY may have possible plans with that as well (i.e. Generations 2013).

So what do you do when other anniversaries are popping up, and may conflict with any possible plans that either Hasbro or TOMY have in store? You take something that neither will touch and give it a proper anniversary revival. Hence the speculation.

My understanding is that Hasbro is pretty much king since they hold the license of Transformers and lead the mold design process and their relationship with TakaraTomy is that TT can do whatever they want with the molds and Hasbro uses their manufacturing facilities and gets their assistance on some of the design work. Hasbro gets first crack, then TakaraTomy or is it TomyTakara? I never remember the order off the top of my head. Hence why, except for rare circumstances, there hasn't been a unique mold to appear in Japan until after its seen release in North America, the biggest exception being the Microns accompnying the Japanese TF: Prime figures, and I have my own hypothesis on that which have no impact on this discussion at this time.

Your speculation about anniversaries I think may be grasping at straws. We're at the point now where every year is going to be an anniversary for something. 2013 is Pretenders, 2014 may be Micromasters, the 30th year for the original G1 cast, or the 10th year for Energon and so on and so forth. Every fan will hope that their preferred anniversary will somehow get special treatment over all the others.

I'm following Occam's Razor on this: There is no supporting fiction for Machine Wars and it's a small toyline that only collectors will follow which made it a perfect target for The Club to make a set around. After some back and forth, Hasbro agreed on their mold choice and away they go.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I fully accept that I could be wrong, you could be right, or we both could be way off. I just think that we as fans tend to overcomplicate things.

Mkall wrote:My understanding is that Hasbro is pretty much king since they hold the license of Transformers and lead the mold design process and their relationship with TakaraTomy is that TT can do whatever they want with the molds and Hasbro uses their manufacturing facilities and gets their assistance on some of the design work. Hasbro gets first crack, then TakaraTomy or is it TomyTakara? I never remember the order off the top of my head. Hence why, except for rare circumstances, there hasn't been a unique mold to appear in Japan until after its seen release in North America, the biggest exception being the Microns accompnying the Japanese TF: Prime figures, and I have my own hypothesis on that which have no impact on this discussion at this time.

Your speculation about anniversaries I think may be grasping at straws. We're at the point now where every year is going to be an anniversary for something. 2013 is Pretenders, 2014 may be Micromasters, the 30th year for the original G1 cast, or the 10th year for Energon and so on and so forth. Every fan will hope that their preferred anniversary will somehow get special treatment over all the others.

I'm following Occam's Razor on this: There is no supporting fiction for Machine Wars and it's a small toyline that only collectors will follow which made it a perfect target for The Club to make a set around. After some back and forth, Hasbro agreed on their mold choice and away they go.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I fully accept that I could be wrong, you could be right, or we both could be way off. I just think that we as fans tend to overcomplicate things.

Not complicating, dissecting. It is how I generate interest in non-TOMY pieces.

Actually, you will be surprised. If you go with pre-merger Takara, you will find that a majority of the licensed figures come from their own pre-Transformers and Transformers (Car Robots, Micron Dentsu trilogy, etc.) lines. And that they also did a good chunk of the figures after that point. Adding those two elements, and the two pieces from ToyBox (Omega Supreme and Sky Lynx), TOMY is the top banana of sorts.

Plus, I was talking about the important anniversaries. Namely Transformers, Headmasters, Pretenders, and Beast Wars. Headmasters and Pretenders helped redefine the toyline, and Beast Wars (created by Kenner) helped reinvent it. Which is why I find them choosing a toyline that initially failed because fans (including myself) hoped it was a revival of the original. That, and from my understanding, this line is based on European Generation 2 pieces (mostly retooled).

Besides... For all we know, Admiral Ackbar is wishing to tell the Machine Wars fans that "It's a trap!" But, then again, I know that there is an Edward Elric (Fullmetal Alchemist) joke within this toyline.