The Energon Pub

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Sometimes the Klingon episodes of DS9 get a bit old, with "honor" and "victory" overload. Though watching Worf confront Gowron and kill him was pretty sweet. Oh, and when Worf and Garak meet Martok in that detention facility and they are forced to fight Jem h'adar (however you spell that), those are some great episodes.

DS9 was the best Trek hands down.

[Wheeljack35]

TNG was

The Borg would and can kick Dominion but

DS9 explained things away and not showing what happened you only heard about it

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

TNG was

The Borg would and can kick Dominion but

DS9 explained things away and not showing what happened you only heard about it

DS9 had the best charactor development.By the end of the show you could see that all the characters had changed in the 7 years and had different theologies....different ways of seeing things.....Worf even killed Wayune for insulting him.......He would never have done that on TNG.As good as TNG was you could always predick how a character was going to react to somthing.......they all had the same morl code,that differed on DS9,They show a more realistice interpatation of the different personalty types and how a person's culture can impact their day to day lives and view points.They even brought Worf's new atitude to "first contack" when he tell's Picard,and I quote, "if you were any other man I would kill you where you stand" In TNG every time he got that mad he would compose him self witch IMO was always a let down........he was a Kligon he should have had a harder time controling his temper.

[BLACKBIRD]

Oh god, its the guy who played Balter on the original BSG, who was the Klingon in the episode where they were on Organia

The mane of the actor you are thinking about is John Collius(sp), he also was the ST:Original Series Episode Trouble with the Tribbles!

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Oh god, its the guy who played Balter on the original BSG, who was the Klingon in the episode where they were on Organia

The mane of the actor you are thinking about is John Collius(sp), he also was the ST:Original Series Episode Trouble with the Tribbles!

Sorry buddy but your mistaken.First of all it was John Colicos [one L] and it was not "Trouble with the Tribbles" it was "Errand of Mercy".The guy in "Trouble with the Tribbles" was Koloth who was played by William Campbell, who also played Trelane in the Original Series Episode "The Squire of Gothos".

[OptimusN1701]

A video game? No. I'm not much for gaming.

You really should watch more of DS9. It's the only show I own in its entirety. I mean, there are definitely some duds, but overall the show is top notch. Personally, I prefer seasons 5-7, because of the Dominion War (gotta love the female shapeshifter and Weyoun) and their finally getting rid of Jadzia. My favorite character in the show is Odo, and boy did he change over the seven seasons.

Thats a shame. Nothing is more satisfying than building you own armada and blowing the **** out of some Cardassians

But I like Cardassians.

Oh the spoon-heads do have some great ship designs.
It's just that I've had some bad experiences with them over the years and we have had a falling out of sorts. Especially after one of the cinematics in Armada 2.

I did like Garak. They just make good bad guys is all

[Moonbase2]

TNG was

The Borg would and can kick Dominion but

DS9 explained things away and not showing what happened you only heard about it

DS9 had the best charactor development.By the end of the show you could see that all the characters had changed in the 7 years and had different theologies....different ways of seeing things.....Worf even killed Wayune for insulting him.......He would never have done that on TNG.As good as TNG was you could always predick how a character was going to react to somthing.......they all had the same morl code,that differed on DS9,They show a more realistice interpatation of the different personalty types and how a person's culture can impact their day to day lives and view points.They even brought Worf's new atitude to "first contack" when he tell's Picard,and I quote, "if you were any other man I would kill you where you stand" In TNG every time he got that mad he would compose him self witch IMO was always a let down........he was a Kligon he should have had a harder time controling his temper.

That's right--because of the war, we saw Sisko doing things, crossing lines he never would have before, and Kira was an hot-tempered character that softened considerably (without losing her spunk). That's just two characters that developed dramatically during the show. We simply didn't see that in TNG. Hell, even in the movies they seemed the same. Now, I haven't watched all of TNG, but I've seen it enough to know that DS9 beat them hands down in character development.

Plus, they managed to have an interstellar war on their budget and still made it somewhat believable. Their actors made up for their lack of money--the female shapeshifter and Weyoun are so wonderful to watch.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

TNG was

The Borg would and can kick Dominion but

DS9 explained things away and not showing what happened you only heard about it

DS9 had the best charactor development.By the end of the show you could see that all the characters had changed in the 7 years and had different theologies....different ways of seeing things.....Worf even killed Wayune for insulting him.......He would never have done that on TNG.As good as TNG was you could always predick how a character was going to react to somthing.......they all had the same morl code,that differed on DS9,They show a more realistice interpatation of the different personalty types and how a person's culture can impact their day to day lives and view points.They even brought Worf's new atitude to "first contack" when he tell's Picard,and I quote, "if you were any other man I would kill you where you stand" In TNG every time he got that mad he would compose him self witch IMO was always a let down........he was a Kligon he should have had a harder time controling his temper.

That's right--because of the war, we saw Sisko doing things, crossing lines he never would have before, and Kira was an hot-tempered character that softened considerably (without losing her spunk). That's just two characters that developed dramatically during the show. We simply didn't see that in TNG. Hell, even in the movies they seemed the same. Now, I haven't watched all of TNG, but I've seen it enough to know that DS9 beat them hands down in character development.

Plus, they managed to have an interstellar war on their budget and still made it somewhat believable. Their actors made up for their lack of money--the female shapeshifter and Weyoun are so wonderful to watch.

Also DS9 episodes were more connected to each other then TNG was.......it was like a soap opera.

[Moonbase2]

At least TNG did have SOME Cardassians. But I'll give them credit for First Contact, and how glorious that movie is.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

At least TNG did have SOME Cardassians. But I'll give them credit for First Contact, and how glorious that movie is.

Its the beat of TNG movies........but notice its the first one in witch we see TNG characters behaving outside their norm's.Picard being obsessed with stoping the Borg, so obsessed that he put everybodys lives at risk.He never acted like that in the show.Worf telling Picard that he would kill him if we were someone else again never on TNG show.They learned from DS9.

[Moonbase2]

Can you believe they brought in Worf to help with ratings? God what an underrated show! So many rich characters, good stories..critics liked it but apparently it wasn't so hot with viewers because it was so different from the happier shows before it. I think you need a bit of darkness. The Dominion was introduced very subltly (on purpose) in a Ferengi episode, something Quark casually mentioned. Then it became this looming, threatening presence from season 2 on. What a great show.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Can you believe they brought in Worf to help with ratings? God what an underrated show! So many rich characters, good stories..critics liked it but apparently it wasn't so hot with viewers because it was so different from the happier shows before it. I think you need a bit of darkness. The Dominion was introduced very subltly (on purpose) in a Ferengi episode, something Quark casually mentioned. Then it became this looming, threatening presence from season 2 on. What a great show.

Like I said it was the best Trek out of all of them.

[Insurgent]

DS9 had the best character development of all because there was something life changing that happened in it (the war). All of the others didn't really have a life changing impact on the entire crew. And the reason the stories kept coming back was because DS9 was a stationary station. Instead of zooming from place to place, week to week, it was forced to interact with the same people.

DS9 is probably my fav series of Trek.

As for Cardassians, I liked them too. They were civilised, knew how to conduct themselves, but turned fierce when threatened. I could watch an entire series of Garak. Such an interesting character with so many sides to his personality. Although I did get tired of Worf towards the end. Honour was all he ever talked about. Yes, he got more klingon like due to the war, but he also suffered from droning on and on. No other Klingon went on like that. Luckily, Martok was there to save the day from that.

The Borg in TNG were a force to be reckoned with. Shame Voyager screwed them over so much. Voyager was my least fav of the 5. Yes, it had some killer episodes, but overall, it was not good. Far too much technobabble, a stupid captain that got her crew stuck in the other side of the galaxy and just plain annoying characters. The Doc and Seven's journey of rediscovering her humanity were the only saving graces of that show. And the fact they used Alice Krige in the series finale instead of Susannah Thompson, who they had used for the rest. I thought her acting had suddenly gotton alot better in the finale before I realised they had switched.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

DS9 had the best character development of all because there was something life changing that happened in it (the war). All of the others didn't really have a life changing impact on the entire crew. And the reason the stories kept coming back was because DS9 was a stationary station. Instead of zooming from place to place, week to week, it was forced to interact with the same people.

DS9 is probably my fav series of Trek.

As for Cardassians, I liked them too. They were civilised, knew how to conduct themselves, but turned fierce when threatened. I could watch an entire series of Garak. Such an interesting character with so many sides to his personality. Although I did get tired of Worf towards the end. Honour was all he ever talked about. Yes, he got more klingon like due to the war, but he also suffered from droning on and on. No other Klingon went on like that. Luckily, Martok was there to save the day from that.

The Borg in TNG were a force to be reckoned with. Shame Voyager screwed them over so much. Voyager was my least fav of the 5. Yes, it had some killer episodes, but overall, it was not good. Far too much technobabble, a stupid captain that got her crew stuck in the other side of the galaxy and just plain annoying characters. The Doc and Seven's journey of rediscovering her humanity were the only saving graces of that show. And the fact they used Alice Krige in the series finale instead of Susannah Thompson, who they had used for the rest. I thought her acting had suddenly gotton alot better in the finale before I realised they had switched.

TNG did have some life changing events happen to the crew but by the next episode or 2 every thing was back to normal.

And you really liked Enterprise more then Voyager???????I'm not saying that Voyager was any good but Enterprise was the worst.

[Insurgent]

Nothing that would affect the TNG crew as drastically as a full blown war did. Except for Picard's assimalation, which was carried through into I Borg. Although in the movies, they didn't seem affected by the war either, but I guess if you randomly change their characters without showing an explaination, it would confuse the fans.


And yes, I liked Enterprise better than Voyager. It didn't feel like Trek, but I could get interested in the characters more, there was a heavy sense of continuity between episodes, there was no magic technobabble to get out of situations, Archer was a captain, but he was also human. We saw him having to deal with torments, the consequences of his actions, something no other captain had been shown to do except Sisko. I think it was underrated by many. The fourth series was when it finally began to feel like Trek (not a whole lot, but it was starting to) and although it had some bad episodes, what show doesn't? When it found it's feet, I found it to be a really enjoyable show. Alot more than Voyager. The Temporal Cold War could have been handled better, and there were some questions left opened by it, but I honestly loved the show.

Although the last episode does seem more like an episode of TNG than Enterprise, and the way they killed off Trip just for the hell of it was dissapointing.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Nothing that would affect the TNG crew as drastically as a full blown war did. Except for Picard's assimalation, which was carried through into I Borg. Although in the movies, they didn't seem affected by the war either, but I guess if you randomly change their characters without showing an explaination, it would confuse the fans.


And yes, I liked Enterprise better than Voyager. It didn't feel like Trek, but I could get interested in the characters more, there was a heavy sense of continuity between episodes, there was no magic technobabble to get out of situations, Archer was a captain, but he was also human. We saw him having to deal with torments, the consequences of his actions, something no other captain had been shown to do except Sisko. I think it was underrated by many. The fourth series was when it finally began to feel like Trek (not a whole lot, but it was starting to) and although it had some bad episodes, what show doesn't? When it found it's feet, I found it to be a really enjoyable show. Alot more than Voyager. The Temporal Cold War could have been handled better, and there were some questions left opened by it, but I honestly loved the show.

Although the last episode does seem more like an episode of TNG than Enterprise, and the way they killed off Trip just for the hell of it was dissapointing.

I can think of at least 2 events that I would considered a drastic change at least on a personal level....but it doesnt matter.

As for Enterprise I feel they started on the wrong foot.To begin with they didnt even get a new ship design.The show was out there by its self not like when DS0 or Voyager hit the air.What bothered me most was how they messed with continuity........but I was expecting that with the show taking place in ST past.

[Insurgent]

Please, tell me. It's been a while since I watched TNG fully, I am relegated to my favourite eps on tape (and series 6 boxset). Data definatly grew as a person. Watch Encounter at Farpoint, then All Good Things. You'll see the difference straight off. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is Geordi loosing his mum. But I suppose it could be argued he did all of his mourning inbetween episodes.

Yeah, the messing of continuity was a bit off, what with the dreaded retcons, but if you ignore the messing and take it as it's own series, it was actually good.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Please, tell me. It's been a while since I watched TNG fully, I am relegated to my favourite eps on tape (and series 6 boxset). Data definatly grew as a person. Watch Encounter at Farpoint, then All Good Things. You'll see the difference straight off. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is Geordi loosing his mum. But I suppose it could be argued he did all of his mourning inbetween episodes.

Yeah, the messing of continuity was a bit off, what with the dreaded retcons, but if you ignore the messing and take it as it's own series, it was actually good.

Well to begin with ,the 1 you mention with Picard and the Borg, being forced to kill friends and co-workers should have effected him on a personal level a bit longer then 1 episode and there most have been more people like Sisko who held him responceable...how come we never see any of them it should have also had a inpact on his carrear...even if only to see 1 pissed off admaril. Deanna Troi's son dieing ,I know he was only alive for a few days but stil it should have effected her a bit longer, LaForge being kidnaped and brain washed into a killer should have changed his outlook on life for a while at least.
I know these events wouldnt effect the crew at large but it should have effect each of these characters on a personal level

[Wheeljack35]

TNG was

The Borg would and can kick Dominion but

DS9 explained things away and not showing what happened you only heard about it

DS9 had the best charactor development.By the end of the show you could see that all the characters had changed in the 7 years and had different theologies....different ways of seeing things.....Worf even killed Wayune for insulting him.......He would never have done that on TNG.As good as TNG was you could always predick how a character was going to react to somthing.......they all had the same morl code,that differed on DS9,They show a more realistice interpatation of the different personalty types and how a person's culture can impact their day to day lives and view points.They even brought Worf's new atitude to "first contack" when he tell's Picard,and I quote, "if you were any other man I would kill you where you stand" In TNG every time he got that mad he would compose him self witch IMO was always a let down........he was a Kligon he should have had a harder time controling his temper.

That's right--because of the war, we saw Sisko doing things, crossing lines he never would have before, and Kira was an hot-tempered character that softened considerably (without losing her spunk). That's just two characters that developed dramatically during the show. We simply didn't see that in TNG. Hell, even in the movies they seemed the same. Now, I haven't watched all of TNG, but I've seen it enough to know that DS9 beat them hands down in character development.

Plus, they managed to have an interstellar war on their budget and still made it somewhat believable. Their actors made up for their lack of money--the female shapeshifter and Weyoun are so wonderful to watch.

It was a pathetic war

We would see these massive fleets and hardly would see any action

Plus that ridiculous atempt at aholo imaging system

Couldn't they spring to make the people look like there being projected instead of having them stand in the background hitting imaginery buttons?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

TNG was

The Borg would and can kick Dominion but

DS9 explained things away and not showing what happened you only heard about it

DS9 had the best charactor development.By the end of the show you could see that all the characters had changed in the 7 years and had different theologies....different ways of seeing things.....Worf even killed Wayune for insulting him.......He would never have done that on TNG.As good as TNG was you could always predick how a character was going to react to somthing.......they all had the same morl code,that differed on DS9,They show a more realistice interpatation of the different personalty types and how a person's culture can impact their day to day lives and view points.They even brought Worf's new atitude to "first contack" when he tell's Picard,and I quote, "if you were any other man I would kill you where you stand" In TNG every time he got that mad he would compose him self witch IMO was always a let down........he was a Kligon he should have had a harder time controling his temper.

That's right--because of the war, we saw Sisko doing things, crossing lines he never would have before, and Kira was an hot-tempered character that softened considerably (without losing her spunk). That's just two characters that developed dramatically during the show. We simply didn't see that in TNG. Hell, even in the movies they seemed the same. Now, I haven't watched all of TNG, but I've seen it enough to know that DS9 beat them hands down in character development.

Plus, they managed to have an interstellar war on their budget and still made it somewhat believable. Their actors made up for their lack of money--the female shapeshifter and Weyoun are so wonderful to watch.

It was a pathetic war

We would see these massive fleets and hardly would see any action

Plus that ridiculous atempt at aholo imaging system

Couldn't they spring to make the people look like there being projected instead of having them stand in the background hitting imaginery buttons?

"Pathetic war" ??????Hardly,but I would have like to see more of the action we were always hearing about in dialog but I guess it wasnt in the budget.TNG never delivered any real kind of space fighting....even with the Borg attack, all we saw was the aftermath.And the holo-comunecation imaging system was only seen in two episodes if I'm right so it's not a big deal.And the idea was to make them look like they were in the room and have a semblance of a face to face conversation.Thats why it had a 3D feel to it, if they wanted it to look like it was projected they would have stuck with the view screan.

[Wheeljack35]

They should of I thought it was cheesy having an actor stand behind them

To me this was the begginning of the end

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

They should of I thought it was cheesy having an actor stand behind them

To me this was the begginning of the end

To me DS9 was Trek's high point.

[Wheeljack35]

TNG was

DS9 was the beginning of the end

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

TNG was

DS9 was the beginning of the end

Like I said DS9 had better character development and growth........Even First Contact took insperation from that fact......not to mention every time on TNG when the Enterprise D was in a fight and almost destroyed the bridge was almost always still clean and in perfact shape......that always buged me.When the Defiant was in a fight you would see the panels explode and all kinds of Sh#t fall from all over the place witch was more realistic and that carried over to TNG films.You should sit down and watch the whole series when you get a chance then pass judgement.

[Moonbase2]

I thought for the budget DS9 had the war was pulled off quite well! And their shots with the ships fighting were always good (even if they had to reuse some from earlier fights). It did require a bit of makebelieve to think there was a huge war going on, but I thought even then it worked.

Also, to me, the characters were just more interesting than TNG's. Of course, that's just a matter of personal opinion. And I liked the Bajoran/Cardassian aspect, as from the beginnning it was an open wound that Sisko had to deal with, especially in the first two seasons (then the Dominion became more important). Personally, I also preferred how the set was stationary (although they did travel in the defiant and there were plenty of episodes that took place off the station). I'm not saying TNG is a bad show, that would be stupid considering its wild popularity. I just simply prefer TOS and DS9 over it (but not Voyager). Enterprise doesn't deserve to be called Star Trek. They should just give it another name entirely.