The Energon Pub

I got my POL delivered yesterday which included MP Soundwave. I really like him. He looks great and the accessories are awesome. He is a great piece for the shelf.

However, I was not blown away by him. Every MP I bought up to this point completely astounded me. The look, the size, the feel, everything about them screamed "this is awesome." Soundwave did not do that for me. I've been trying to figure out why.

I am underwhelmed with Lazerbeak. He looks fine but he feels cheap to me. I feel like I am going to break him by looking at him too sternly. I changed him into a bird and that is how he shall stay forever.

This "cheap feel" extends to Soundwave. Previous MP's had a certain heft to them when you held them in your hands. Soundwave doesn't have that.

His size just doesn't work for me. Standing him back to back with MP Starscream, they are about the same height. But not quite. He also looks very skinny to me.

I guess what really bugs me is that when I looked at or held previous Mp molds, I felt like I paid more money for a collectors item. Soundwave feels more like a toy.

I had previously decided that MP Soundwave would be the last MP I would buy. When I saw that they were scaling them down (Prime and Sideswipe) I knew I wouldn't like it. But, in the back of my head I thought "maybe Soundwave would change my mind" and I would pick up the new ones. That didn't happen. I'm kind of sad about it.

Anyone have some thoughts, feelings, or emotions?

think its pretty good considering the rising costs of, well, everything! Laserbeak may be a bit fragile but holy **** you gotta admit the transformation and detail of the thing makes it a damn fine tf, masterpiece or not. I mean he's a tape and his weapons are integrated and he's got a little spy camera in his teeny tiny head!

soundwave, i think, really shines with his "minion" feature. that is he can hold three of them and eject them without having a giant rod thing on his back like foc soundwave. We just haven't been able to fully enjoy this part of him because his minions aren't out yet cept laserbeak of course.

for me what made me get him is picturing him ejecting a minion (with his finger posed on the button like it should be) while being surrounded by the others and looking just like in the show or comic due to the masterpiece level of detail and accuracy

if he feels a little light or hollow thats cuz he is due to the very cool minion gimmick!

those be my thoughts....

SJ21, reading your post, I think I can sum it up with a 5 word question - "where is the die cast?"

The fact is that as economies have gone downhill, costs have needed to be reduced in some ways. I have yet to have my Soundwave turn up, but from what I've experienced with Red Alert and Soundwave, they tend to be a little more hollow and thanks to being all plastic, lighter.

Also I think the problem with Laserbeak is the size of some of the joints and the stresses they're placed under (specifically the connector struts for the turbines). I will say that with the exception of the Cassettes and maybe one or 2 of the Minicars, that shouldn't be a problem across the line.

I think there's a fallacy in your reasoning though. There are plastics and there are plastics. The fact is that some plastics these days are more durable than metals. Heck, when spidersilk becomes commonplace, it'll be much thinner yet so much more durable than kevlar.

The days of thinking "it it's not metal, it's more brittle" are coming to an end. The MPs might be all plastic, but honestly, I've noticed the plastic is generally of excellent quality and so I'm not convinced it's a trade down.

Overall, I love the new direction being taken and I can't wait to see more of the same .

Technically speaking Soundwave has die-cast feet and joints.

I can sort of understand what you are saying. While I am very happy with MP Soundwave standing on my shelf of MP, I didn't get that WOW factor I have had with a couple of other MP figures.

Laserbeak is impressive but fragile. I would even go so far to say that he is the star of that package. My only gripes is you cannot angle his wings up where they meet his body and one of his tail fins wont go vertical even with lots of force, so they will both stay at 45 degrees.

Soundwave looks awesome, stick Laserbeak on his arm you have G1 in a nutshell right there. Yes he is very light and he doesn't really push toy engineering like other MP figures did. He transforms into a rectangular block with no need to hide any tape deck parts in robot mode. So they didn't need to do anything really fancy other than give him decent articulation and make him look decent.

I'm not too keen on those bits hanging down on his legs, they could have maybe done something to hide those and one of his index fingers likes to pop off.

I suppose my biggest gripe would actually be the cost, £180 for something so small and simple probably dulls the excitement over the figure.

Its G1 Soundwave though and he is a fantastic addition to the line. I may get hold of the Hasbro release if it does come with all his little pals as I can probably save some money over buying the Takara versions.

fenrir72 wrote:Technically speaking Soundwave has die-cast feet and joints.

Not denying that at all. What I meant was that you're not going to get the same "blunt object I could hurt burglars with" effect that a friend once referred to her God Ginrai with, that you are with say, MP-01, where the bulk of the torso is die cast and it feels pretty weighty.

I think with TFs, particualry G1 TFs and G1 homages, there can sometimes be a tendency to equate light with flimsy.

It had to happen sometime, when you felt "this isn't quite as awesome as I'd hoped." It's an inevitability with collecting, and the Masterpiece line is aimed at us older fans with disposable income.

I didn't have the same feeling as you with Soundwave, but I do not care at all for the TRU release of MP Rodimus Prime. His lack of trailer and seemingly incomplete paint job meant he mostly stayed in box, while valuable shelf space was alotted to more important figures.

And of course, rising prices and less plastic... but to me Soundwave is the best recent MP release. Not only because I like the character better than Sideswipe and Red Alert, but because of his accessories. The Megatron gun, the energon cube, and especially Laserbeak all make this a worthy purchase.

You may be underwhelmed, but as long as you're still glad you bought him; that's all that matters. You may be more reluctant to buy MPs in the future, but being more discerning with these expensive toys is hardly a bad thing.

Bowspearer wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Technically speaking Soundwave has die-cast feet and joints.

Not denying that at all. What I meant was that you're not going to get the same "blunt object I could hurt burglars with" effect that a friend once referred to her God Ginrai with, that you are with say, MP-01, where the bulk of the torso is die cast and it feels pretty weighty.

I think with TFs, particualry G1 TFs and G1 homages, there can sometimes be a tendency to equate light with flimsy.

Yeah. Them old toys literally could kill you or poke you in the eyes back then. MP-01 was frickin' heavy what with all the die-cast(and paint chipping )

Though that too was the impression of my friend(and TF importer/source)when I bought it from his store. He immediately told me to check the weight............bit on the light side but imho, you pay for:

1.the character
2.engineering (c'mon guys, throw Tomy's engineers a bone........they really worked their butts off for old SW.)

Back to the lack of die-cast metal.......I kind off prefer it that way. The use of die-cast should be well thought of and integrated into the design and not be just for the sake of it(like the Titanium series). G1 was sort of like that, the metal was there for a purpose(more like keeping the figure balanced). If you incorporated more painted metal parts on him, imagine all the paint scrapes. Even now, the metal painted feet are a problem already for some of us.

Dammit, you had to go and cause the repressed memory of the Titanium series to surface didn't you

Seriously though I agree, I love the direction they've taken. Yes they've gone with plastic but it feels really sturdy. All in all the only problem with this line is that it'll send us all broke .

Common theme among us when we go purchasing those d@mn Masterpieces......

I don't get the "NOT ENOUGH DIE-CAST THEREFORE IT SUCKS!" thing. The only thing die-cast is good for is feet and legs for added stability. I actually prefer a lighter toy, as it's less likely to be damaged if it falls over (heavier=more momentum=greater force on it as it falls=ouch) and just makes the damned thing more expensive. Look at Titanium Megatron (the godawful "GI Joe" version, not the "cool robot mode but terrible vehicle mode" version). He has die-cast arms, meaning his already floppy joints are incapable of keeping his arms up, and his die-cast legs are so heavy that they come off the clips attached to the pelvis most of the time. The figure was awful anyway, but had it been entirely plastic it could have been so much better.

Done right (Soul of Chogokin SPEC Evangelions, for example) it works. However, die-cast alone does not a great toy make.

Ever since I saw Grimlock I was considering getting into the MP line, as he seemed like the best rendition available (although FOC Grimlock is pretty cool too) but now that I've seen Soundwave...He will be mine. Oh yes. He will be mine. Even though I already have Prime Soundwave (I buy Transformers to build a single, massive cast that completely ignores any existing official continuities, in which Unicron is a nice guy who collects Peruvian stamps and eats Quorn balls, Scorponok and Blackarachnia are getting married, and Soundwave can speak with any voice he likes) MP Soundwave is so impressive I want him as a figure. The fact he's compatible with G1 cassettes is just the icing on the cake.

Also, the fact they managed to work Laserbeak's engine thingies into his body, rather than being clip on accessories, is a truly marvelous work of engineering.

Bowspearer wrote:"where is the die cast?"

I thought that initially, but then realized that wasn't the problem. Starscream doesn't have die-cast and I bought that guy thing 3 times with different paintjobs.

Henry921 wrote:You may be underwhelmed, but as long as you're still glad you bought him; that's all that matters.

Oh, I am completely glad I bought him. He is the definitive Soundwave.

fenrir72 wrote: you pay for:
1.the character
2.engineering (c'mon guys, throw Tomy's engineers a bone........they really worked their butts off for old SW.)

So then, here is my question. At what point does the line blur between MP's and the Classics/Generations line? With the downsizing of the MP line, they are barely bigger than Classics Voyagers. I don't think the engineering of MP Soundwave is any more impressive than the Generations Voyager version. Is Hasbro/Takara telling us that they couldn't make a G1 cartoon-accurate Soundwave and not charge $100+ for him?

SJ21 wrote:

Bowspearer wrote:"where is the die cast?"

I thought that initially, but then realized that wasn't the problem. Starscream doesn't have die-cast and I bought that guy thing 3 times with different paintjobs.

Henry921 wrote:You may be underwhelmed, but as long as you're still glad you bought him; that's all that matters.

Oh, I am completely glad I bought him. He is the definitive Soundwave.

fenrir72 wrote: you pay for:
1.the character
2.engineering (c'mon guys, throw Tomy's engineers a bone........they really worked their butts off for old SW.)

So then, here is my question. At what point does the line blur between MP's and the Classics/Generations line? With the downsizing of the MP line, they are barely bigger than Classics Voyagers. I don't think the engineering of MP Soundwave is any more impressive than the Generations Voyager version. Is Hasbro/Takara telling us that they couldn't make a G1 cartoon-accurate Soundwave and not charge $100+ for him?

That maybe subjective on our part then if you think the engineering is more or less impressive. On my part, I also add that as a factor too (R and D).

The downsizing too is a plus for us........when MP-01 came out, he was incomplete. By the time they released the trailer version package, he was uber expensive and sans Roller/Buggy. Good thing the did MP-10. Sure there were slight changes to the design (micronization does entail more engineering apps over a much bigger version...the energon ax feature come to my mind). The car robots like the Lambo guys and the upcoming Datsun......please people, they are literally light years apart compared to the originals.

So in the end, I am not expecting to pay less for a more or less higher end product......unless the cost of petrol goes down or the dollar/yen exchange rate stabilizes.

SJ21 wrote: I don't think the engineering of MP Soundwave is any more impressive than the Generations Voyager version. Is Hasbro/Takara telling us that they couldn't make a G1 cartoon-accurate Soundwave and not charge $100+ for him?

Maybe they could. But they can make one, sell it for $100+ and loads of people will buy it, so why wouldn't they?

fenrir72 wrote:The car robots like the Lambo guys and the upcoming Datsun......please people, they are literally light years apart compared to the originals.

I do not have these guys in-hand, so I am honestly asking: are they light-years beyond the Classics Lambo molds? Imagine you up-sized the Classics mold (which is now a few years old) to the current MP size. Is the MP version $60+ better?

craggy wrote:Maybe they could. But they can make one, sell it for $100+ and loads of people will buy it, so why wouldn't they?

Absolutely they should. My issue is that I am starting to get to the point now that they aren't giving me enough in the MP line to validate their price point. And believe me, I am not complaining about having to spend the money. I love the MP's and would gladly give them my money if I felt the MP line distinguished itself from the Classics line (collectors item from toy item). As sad as I am to say it, I don't think Hasbro is doing this.

Got my MP Soundwave today! Love him Love Laserbeak too. Don't know what all this talk about him being fragile is. Mine don't seem fragile. However I do agree with the price being too high. I don't think Soundwave should cost more than $100-120.

SJ21 wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:The car robots like the Lambo guys and the upcoming Datsun......please people, they are literally light years apart compared to the originals.

I do not have these guys in-hand, so I am honestly asking: are they light-years beyond the Classics Lambo molds? Imagine you up-sized the Classics mold (which is now a few years old) to the current MP size. Is the MP version $60+ better?

craggy wrote:Maybe they could. But they can make one, sell it for $100+ and loads of people will buy it, so why wouldn't they?

Absolutely they should. My issue is that I am starting to get to the point now that they aren't giving me enough in the MP line to validate their price point. And believe me, I am not complaining about having to spend the money. I love the MP's and would gladly give them my money if I felt the MP line distinguished itself from the Classics line (collectors item from toy item). As sad as I am to say it, I don't think Hasbro is doing this.

Own one and you'll know what I mean. Maybe we're just getting jaded because of technology but even back in the G1 days, those figs were like state of the art for its time. I kind off refrain from commenting on a particular figure if I don't own it yet so I'll leave the judgement to you once you get your hands on an MP Lambor/Sideswipe

I'd rather have plastic in favour of die-cast than no MP's or TF's for that matter. If they can eliminate certain costs, which lead to more R & D and ultimately more product, then I'm all for it. Don't like what they're charging, don't like what they have to offer? Don't buy it.

Sinnertwin wrote:I do not have these guys in-hand, so I am honestly asking: are they light-years beyond the Classics Lambo molds? Imagine you up-sized the Classics mold (which is now a few years old) to the current MP size. Is the MP version $60+ better?

Just my opinion here. Better? In a few ways, yes. 60 dollars better? Depends on who you ask.

The head sculpt is much better, IMO. He's also got articulation in his hand (a row of fingers jointed at the knuckles, but NOT individually articulated) which you won't usually get in a deluxe figure. His alt mode is almost fully painted--something else you wouldn't normally see in a deluxe figure.

IMO, his feet look better and more proportionate than the Classics Sideswipe mold, probably due to his larger MP budget being able to accommodate more moving parts and joints.

For all intents and purposes, he's what you might call a rich man's deluxe figure. Think if it as a toy equivalent of those gimmicky Wagyu beef burgers or foie gras sandwiches served in high-class restaurants.

I guess I'm, and it feels odd to say this but, am in the minority on this one. MP Soundwave is just...art. He is, like MP-10, almost incapable of not looking great, even without any effort to pose him. I honestly feel a tiny bit overwhelmed because there are like 5 or 6 different poses I would like to display him in and can't do all of them at once.

I know the lack of diecast seems like it takes away from a figure, but in all honesty, I've never really felt that TFs with high metal content are really, I dunno, stable? I always fear them launching off of a shelf, or just eventually wearing out their own joints. I just the feeling that an all plastic, or mostly plastic toy will hold up better over time.

Delta Magnus wrote:I don't get the "NOT ENOUGH DIE-CAST THEREFORE IT SUCKS!" thing. The only thing die-cast is good for is feet and legs for added stability. I actually prefer a lighter toy, as it's less likely to be damaged if it falls over (heavier=more momentum=greater force on it as it falls=ouch) and just makes the damned thing more expensive. Look at Titanium Megatron (the godawful "GI Joe" version, not the "cool robot mode but terrible vehicle mode" version). He has die-cast arms, meaning his already floppy joints are incapable of keeping his arms up, and his die-cast legs are so heavy that they come off the clips attached to the pelvis most of the time. The figure was awful anyway, but had it been entirely plastic it could have been so much better.

Done right (Soul of Chogokin SPEC Evangelions, for example) it works. However, die-cast alone does not a great toy make.

Ever since I saw Grimlock I was considering getting into the MP line, as he seemed like the best rendition available (although FOC Grimlock is pretty cool too) but now that I've seen Soundwave...He will be mine. Oh yes. He will be mine. Even though I already have Prime Soundwave (I buy Transformers to build a single, massive cast that completely ignores any existing official continuities, in which Unicron is a nice guy who collects Peruvian stamps and eats Quorn balls, Scorponok and Blackarachnia are getting married, and Soundwave can speak with any voice he likes) MP Soundwave is so impressive I want him as a figure. The fact he's compatible with G1 cassettes is just the icing on the cake.

Also, the fact they managed to work Laserbeak's engine thingies into his body, rather than being clip on accessories, is a truly marvelous work of engineering.

A good analogy on the SOCs by Bandai.

Though oozing with die-cast like parts, some are technically not die-cast but a heavily(?)painted ABS/PVC that make 'em look like die-cast.........to an awesome effect in appearance. I technically own only 3 SOC (the 1st release Mazinger fembots) but I get the meaning of the OP. The figs in my case had copper(?) colored POA joints die-cast with the exception of Minerva X (it was plain gray and has some corrosion already like MP Megatron's Cosmic Rust syndrome) and some what appears to be (can't quite confirm it) die-cast torso components.

This sort of reminds me the "cheating" Takara did on the KissPlayers release of Convoy x Melissa and Hotrodimus x Xiaoxiao. Their plastics were painted with heavy layers of paint that weren't too prone to paint chips unlike die-cast. iPod Optimus Prime colors (don't own the white version so I can't confirm) too had the same thick layered paint apps on their plastics giving him a full die-cast look but actually just an uber paint job.

Weight? I got to hand it to other concerns. SW is on the light side indeed. As again mentioned, would you rather have a well balanced and practically applied figure of die-cast or just die-cast for the heck of it? Or maybe Tomy would have had applied the KissPlayer trick by painting SW heavily. But given his transform design where his legs fold up to his torso, that would create issues of paint chipping due to constant transformations.

Imho, well SW is as good as it is. Design wise, heard there are some criticism on his leg joint but that's the engineer's design call (and I'm not an engineer) and micronization for such an intricately designed adult collectible to me is a feat for itself.

Though I don't have MP Soundwave nor have I held one I have to say I agree with some others that it's probably due to his gimmick. This is really the first MP to have fully realized gimmick incorporated into the actualy figure itself. So it makes sense and I also agree with others that though die cast is cool (except for the rusting) plastic has come a looong way and don't think it's as much a problem anymore.

I still think the MP line in general is pretty cool, though there are a few exceptions. I didn't realize Sideswipe and Red Alert would be so small and was quite surprised when my boxes from TF Source arrived. I re-sold those cuz I didn't think they justified the price. I will probably get the MP Bluestreak, though, if it is actually blue. Not gonna buy another silver one.