The Energon Pub

a poster of a fan website hanging in a bicycle shop??? ok what ever floats your boat i guess. have a great day everyone whether you like or dislike the motormaster were getting. at the end of the day were all seibertronians

Nekoman wrote:I have trouble fathoming how people can be so preoccupied with complaining about whatever Shortpacked! or Seibertron's done this week. So much else one could be doing instead.

I'll ditto this. Are our lives really that uneventful that we have to take offense? Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, but I laugh along with something that pokes fun at me. It's just toys. Don't take it seriously. I've never felt that emotionally invested that I have to care if a site I'm associated with was poked at.

I'm going to go read to my kids now instead of feeling angry about this. Everyone who was offended should probably find something more worthwhile to be concerned about.

You know what I loved about this ordeal is how David Willis didn't allow my comment/reply to be posted in that thread on his site. I posted a very nice message in response to someone saying I was being a jerk by posting that, which I thought was a little bit of an overstatement. The message I wrote was very well thought out, polite, non-confrontational, and even a little apologetic. Yet, he didn't allow my comment on there but allow the people to bash myself or Seibertron.com.

I also love how he calls what I did an overreaction. Anyone remember what he did when we accidentally hotlinked an image on his site?

Just for the record, this won't be the last time that I stir up the pot. It has to be done from time to time. I also hope that people on this site know that when I use words like "us", "we", "our", etc. that I might just not be speaking for the entirety of the fandom or even the majority on Seibertron.com. It's an editorial choice to which I'm entitled. In this particular example, the word "We" was intentionally chosen to elicit the very reactions that we got on both sides of the fence. This is a discussion board. Sometimes the pot's gotta get stirred up to get some interesting debate and conversation going. That's what happened here.

First and foremost, Seibertron.com is an entertainment website. It is not a news website first. It is not a gallery website first. It is not a message board website first. It is all of those things rolled up into one big entertaining package that should bring about a sense of fun and sometimes it'll stir up the pot just like any "news" organization on TV does.

Bottom line, end of the day, I love Transformers just as much as any of you do. I don't abuse my ability to share my opinion on the homepage of this site so when I do decide to let the world know what I'm thinking, it's usually for good reason. Past examples have been Movie Megatron's face (you're welcome everyone), Don Figueroa's IDW TF ongoing artwork (seems like most everyone agreed ultimately), the delay with BotCon last year (which I fought doing for an extremely long time), the ridiculousness of how small Punch/Counterpunch's head was, and now the poor choice of yet ANOTHER black Optimus Prime for Motormaster (very unoriginal and rather boring). I'm sure there are a few other examples over the past 11 years but I think you guys can see that I save the expressing of my opinion for times when I feel it is extremely necessary.

Rodimus Prime wrote:All those who got upset about this, I'm laughing at you. He did it just to get a rise out of most fans. We can't call him a liar, though. I also disagreed with Ryan about Wreck-Gar being a better mold for Motormaster. I think Prime is just fine as the mold, regardless of it being just another re-coloring of the same thing. It's still better than Wreck-Gar. My first choice would have been Ultra Magnus, but this is 2nd best.

Out of curiosity, how many black Optimus Prime toys do you own?

Shadowman wrote:All right, what's everyone getting so mad about now? Ryan put up that banner on the site. Walky was making fun of it. Now everyone's sending their ego into overdrive because of it, ignoring that the banner deserved to be made fun of. Opinion pieces aren't supposed to be made into big banners on the front of the site.

Opinion pieces 100% definitely have a spot on the homepage of the site. It's funny how this works ... no one seems to get upset about my opinion when it's a positive opinion (which it is 99% of the time on this site), but the dozen times or so that I expressed a negative opinion over the past 11 years, some people think they can tell me I have no right to post my opinion on the homepage. But only when it's a negative opinion!

You ran something Willis didn't like, and then he made fun of you for it. You ever watch the Daily Show? Same concept. People will make fun of you if they have something to work with. "Stirring the pot" won't help you, nor has it ever benefited anyone.

Oh come on Willis is hilarious, remember the time he pretended to be but-hurt about two generics that where killed in a comic looked like Hot Shot and SG Ravage?
That was hilarious, this however, isn't nearly as hilarious as I was hoping for, looks like he's lost his edge.

Shadowman wrote:You ran something Willis didn't like, and then he made fun of you for it. You ever watch the Daily Show? Same concept. People will make fun of you if they have something to work with. "Stirring the pot" won't help you, nor has it ever benefited anyone.

Willis is entitled to say and mock whatever he'd like with Shortpacked. I never stated that he couldn't or that I was upset about it. Heck, I even tweeted that Shortpacked poked fun at Seibertron.com on the Twitter page.

Let's just agree to disagree about "stirring the pot". Sometimes there's more than meets the eye going on behind the scenes.

Seibertron wrote:

Shadowman wrote:All right, what's everyone getting so mad about now? Ryan put up that banner on the site. Walky was making fun of it. Now everyone's sending their ego into overdrive because of it, ignoring that the banner deserved to be made fun of. Opinion pieces aren't supposed to be made into big banners on the front of the site.

Opinion pieces 100% definitely have a spot on the homepage of the site. It's funny how this works ... no one seems to get upset about my opinion when it's a positive opinion (which it is 99% of the time on this site), but the dozen times or so that I expressed a negative opinion over the past 11 years, some people think they can tell me I have no right to post my opinion on the homepage. But only when it's a negative opinion!

Positive as in fans largely agreeing to it I can understand. Nothing to fight about But in this case a significant portion disagrees, and that's when things can get a bit ugly. Voicing opinions on your own site can be a double-edged sword, as you can influence a lot of people directly, but on the flip side others can berate you for just that.

If you ask me, Ryan did a fine job of pulling people into the discussion with what he's done, but I do agree things could have been done differently. But its people who aren't afraid to shout out who keep the fandom alive.

One more thing: if both parties can laugh about the event in the end, what's the harm?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:If you ask me, Ryan did a fine job of pulling people into the discussion with what he's done, but I do agree things could have been done differently. But its people who aren't afraid to shout out who keep the fandom alive.

And I only cry foul when I feel it's necessary -- which seems to only happen once or twice a year (which I hope everyone in this conversation is keeping in perspective because it's not like I do this every week, every month or even every six weeks ... I went from Counterpunch last spring to Motormaster two weeks ago so I'm definitely not abusing this).

I'm not a big fan of status quo or just accepting things for the way they are. I'm too invested in this hobby both as a collector and as someone who owns a major Transformers fansite and as someone who spends 75% of his day working on a Transformers website. I sincerely felt that the Club can do better. I like those guys. I like Fun Pub. I think Brian Savage is a really, really nice guy and I give him a ton of credit for tackling the Joes and TF conventions. His wife is a sweetheart. Pete Sinclair is an awesome guy (and TF fan) who I'm very thankful for having at the Club -- they needed him and his insight to the brand. But in this case I think they could have done better. I think they could've done better with Counterpunch's head. I want to let them know when I think they can do better because I think they need to hear it. I'll also give them praise when they deserve it because most of the time I think they do amazing things for us.

Ignore Willis. He's not worth it.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:One more thing: if both parties can laugh about the event in the end, what's the harm?

I agree with this. There was no harm done. I had a laugh so I hope you guys do to.

Let's all keep in mind that we're discussing toys. Even if I think something could be done better, it's not the end of the world. I survived Punch/Counterpunch, I'm sure I'll survive Motormaster just fine, I survived reading all 6 issues of Don Figueroa's crazy Transformers artwork, I even survived gorilla movie Starscream (but thank goodness Michael Bay changed Megatron's head because I don't know if I would've survived that).

Autobot032 wrote:Ignore Willis. He's not worth it.

Let's not take that approach. That isn't fair to Willis. He's done a few things that I haven't been too keen about over the years, but I'm sure he can say the same about me. He's just a fan like any other and I'd rather us not getting into a "bash Willis" scenario. That's not fair to him, and it's really not fair to any of us.

Seibertron wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Ignore Willis. He's not worth it.

Let's not take that approach. That isn't fair to Willis. He's done a few things that I haven't been too keen about over the years, but I'm sure he can say the same about me. He's just a fan like any other and I'd rather us not getting into a "bash Willis" scenario. That's not fair to him, and it's really not fair to any of us.

It's not about having a bash Willis scenario. He's always sarcastic, always rude, always has a chip on his shoulder, and always points out the faults of others but never looks in the mirror. And someone like that should be ignored. What is he doing for the fandom that makes it better? Honestly? Can anyone tell me what he's done that's good for the fandom?

Seibertron wrote:Let's just agree to disagree about "stirring the pot". Sometimes there's more than meets the eye going on behind the scenes.

You're dealing with the internet, an entity of pure chaos. Whatever you have going on behind the scenes better be big.

"Whatcha Talkin 'Bout Willis?"

Autobot032 wrote:It's not about having a bash Willis scenario. He's always sarcastic, always rude, always has a chip on his shoulder, and always points out the faults of others but never looks in the mirror. And someone like that should be ignored. What is he doing for the fandom that makes it better? Honestly? Can anyone tell me what he's done that's good for the fandom?

Well, he was a major factor in getting both tf-wikis set up, and has contributed heavily to them.(Personally I don't think this outweighs the damage he's done to the fandom at large, but I can't honestly say that he's done NOTHING, either.)

Jaynz wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:It's not about having a bash Willis scenario. He's always sarcastic, always rude, always has a chip on his shoulder, and always points out the faults of others but never looks in the mirror. And someone like that should be ignored. What is he doing for the fandom that makes it better? Honestly? Can anyone tell me what he's done that's good for the fandom?

Well, he was a major factor in getting both tf-wikis set up, and has contributed heavily to them.(Personally I don't think this outweighs the damage he's done to the fandom at large, but I can't honestly say that he's done NOTHING, either.)

I agree with that. tfwiki.net is pretty awesome. Awesome enough that I bought http://www.wikitron.net a while back. If anyone wanted to help give tfwiki some competition, I'm game.

Autobot032 wrote:What is he doing for the fandom that makes it better? Honestly? Can anyone tell me what he's done that's good for the fandom?

What are you doing for the fandom? Ask yourself that before you start asking it about other people.

Seibertron wrote:I agree with that. tfwiki.net is pretty awesome. Awesome enough that I bought http://www.wikitron.net a while back. If anyone wanted to help give tfwiki some competition, I'm game.

I really don't see the point in setting up rival wikis. It's just going to be the same information, and feels like a case of Follow the Leader to me.

Shadowman wrote:

Seibertron wrote:I agree with that. tfwiki.net is pretty awesome. Awesome enough that I bought http://www.wikitron.net a while back. If anyone wanted to help give tfwiki some competition, I'm game.

I really don't see the point in setting up rival wikis. It's just going to be the same information, and feels like a case of Follow the Leader to me.

You mean like tfwiki and wikipedia? If we followed that logic, you wouldn't have Seibertron.com, TFW2005.com, tformers.com or any other of the Transformers fansites we have today and we'd just be going to bigbot.com and whatever bwtf.com's domain used to be.

Opportunity my friend. Again, agree to disagree.

Shadowman wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:What is he doing for the fandom that makes it better? Honestly? Can anyone tell me what he's done that's good for the fandom?

What are you doing for the fandom? Ask yourself that before you start asking it about other people.

[/quote]

Shadowman, c'mon man ... is there really a point to this or are you just trying to ruffle feathers here?

Seibertron wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Seibertron wrote:I agree with that. tfwiki.net is pretty awesome. Awesome enough that I bought http://www.wikitron.net a while back. If anyone wanted to help give tfwiki some competition, I'm game.

I really don't see the point in setting up rival wikis. It's just going to be the same information, and feels like a case of Follow the Leader to me.

You mean like tfwiki and wikipedia? If we followed that logic, you wouldn't have Seibertron.com, TFW2005.com, tformers.com or any other of the Transformers fansites we have today and we'd just be going to bigbot.com and whatever bwtf.com's domain used to be.

Opportunity my friend. Again, agree to disagree.

No, not like Wikipedia and TFwiki. Both have entirely difference notability standards as well as, obviously, focus. It's the difference between the Encyclopedia Britannica and the AllSpark Almanac. Basically, I don't see a point in creating a specialized wiki when a specialized wiki already exists. It's like, someone publishes a book, then someone else publishes the same book, but with a slightly difference tone.

Seibertron wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:What is he doing for the fandom that makes it better? Honestly? Can anyone tell me what he's done that's good for the fandom?

What are you doing for the fandom? Ask yourself that before you start asking it about other people.

Shadowman, c'mon man ... is there really a point to this or are you just trying to ruffle feathers here?

There is, actually. Why criticize someone for "hurting the fandom" and asking what they've done "for the good of the fandom" when this is a fandom that can be brutal towards itself. And we lavish each new series with hate when we know as little as possible about it, and even then half the fandom is going to hate it for silly reasons. (Show of hands, how many people dislike Prime simply because of the influences from the movies?) There's a reason I don't go into the live-action movies section of the forum as much as I used to.

Not that I know of this guy or liked these particular Botcon pieces at all, but:

Objectively: The banner was news.2 photos = 2x 500 words. Seibertron is allowed. Weren't there news articles putting the pieces in a positive light as well? Do it again,Seibertron. We have our right to news.That's why there's a whole news team.

Positive fan reaction: Here, one persons' opinion is officially encouraged, no matter what site they frequent. All the commentary in this thread is just as valid as that blokes' comic.Also, from what I gather,he's officially recognised as a TF community comic artist,so let him be.(The fact that he won't touch his own site makes him an official sellout to other official comic artists, and so, ces la vie).

Negative fan reaction:It's a cartoon strip disguising HIS negative reaction as Seibertrons one.Big deal! What would you expect a major contributor-founder to TF Wiki to do when his educational initiative on a new TF subject is yanked from under him? He'd redirect all roads to lead to his educational say-so again.
99.999999% of TF Pan-Internet TF fans don't even know he and his comic strips exist.

Shadowman wrote:No, not like Wikipedia and TFwiki. Both have entirely difference notability standards as well as, obviously, focus. It's the difference between the Encyclopedia Britannica and the AllSpark Almanac. Basically, I don't see a point in creating a specialized wiki when a specialized wiki already exists. It's like, someone publishes a book, then someone else publishes the same book, but with a slightly difference tone.

You just described the majority of the major Transformers fansites, and then even the minor ones, yet all of those sites are here and some have been flourishing for over 10 years. Not to mention real world news companies like CNN, MSNBC, FOX News, etc -- all of which defy your anti-competitive comments. While I understand the point you are trying to make, it is not a valid point in the real world. If it was and if it were honored, we'd only have one car company, one super store, one toy company, etc. It's competition, plain-and-simple ... it's what makes the world go 'round. Someone has an idea, someone else comes along and tries to do it better. Your suggestion is stifling and anti-competitive if I'm understanding your point correctly.

It's my turn to play devil's advocate now. If someone said they wanted to start a new gallery feature on their existing Transformers website or start an entirely new Transformers website to compete with the galleries I've slaved over for more than 7 years, would you tell them that they shouldn't do their own take on comprehensive galleries because Seibertron.com is already doing that? How is that fair to tell them no? Why wouldn't we all, including myself, welcome the competition? Isn't that what drives all of us to be better, to stive to improve our skills, knowledge, and abilities?

Thank goodness for competition.

Seibertron wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:All those who got upset about this, I'm laughing at you. He did it just to get a rise out of most fans. We can't call him a liar, though. I also disagreed with Ryan about Wreck-Gar being a better mold for Motormaster. I think Prime is just fine as the mold, regardless of it being just another re-coloring of the same thing. It's still better than Wreck-Gar. My first choice would have been Ultra Magnus, but this is 2nd best.

Out of curiosity, how many black Optimus Prime toys do you own?

Car Robots Black Convoy is the only one.

Shadowman wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:What is he doing for the fandom that makes it better? Honestly? Can anyone tell me what he's done that's good for the fandom?

What are you doing for the fandom? Ask yourself that before you start asking it about other people.

By that extension, no one should be allowed to question or criticize anything.

At what point does a person's "contributions" equate to a voice in the discussion?

Come on...