The Energon Pub

Wowie I really like Dragstrip, his guns are so neat too. This is exciting stuff, having each combiner team have its own ecosystem for attachment and what not is an excellent idea and gets me excited for future teams since it means each one can combine in the most effective way for its own design

Isn't Menasor the only one with a radically different cartoon model for the combiner mode?

ZeroWolf wrote:Isn't Menasor the only one with a radically different cartoon model for the combiner mode?

We have our best look yet at the upcoming Transformers Legacy deluxe Kickback. In the images below you will get a good look at his robot mode and alt mode from various angles along with comparisons to other Deceptions and the Titans Return version. There has been hyperbole used to say that Hasbro's smaller figures make the deluxe class look like a legends/scout class and these pictures show that there is no truth to that with Kickback well deserving the deluxe name, at least when it comes to size. We get a good look at the 3 accessories and how they can be used in different ways. The comparison between the previous legends version shows that Hasbro went with a more traditional Kickback transformation with the head being the same for both modes. We thank fellow Seibertronian Alakese for the heads up regarding the review from Chefatron which these pictures come from.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

o.supreme wrote:It's kind of neat that since Kickback was the last Insecticon to get a Legends scale figure during Prime Wars, he was the First to get a deluxe size in the new series. I just hope that somehow, despite the controversy with Takatoku (now Bandai) designs, they can make new Deluxe Insecticons true enough to the original, but unique enough not to have any legal issues.

I don't think there are any legal issues per se, toy designs aren't copyrighted the way that media is, and any patents for the original toys would have expired long ago. If anything, Hasbro probably doesn't make toys for those characters because they rarely appeared in any media, with RiD's Chop Shop perhaps the biggest exception.

Nah, pretty sure the mold ownership is still an issue, otherwise there wouldn't be such a hubbub every time a Jetfire or Gobot-based character is released. I think Chop Shop might be the outlier in the whole Deluxe Insecticon group.

Then again, the main problem is with reissuing the old molds, so new toys aren't out of the question if they're different enough, I guess.

MaximalNui wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

o.supreme wrote:It's kind of neat that since Kickback was the last Insecticon to get a Legends scale figure during Prime Wars, he was the First to get a deluxe size in the new series. I just hope that somehow, despite the controversy with Takatoku (now Bandai) designs, they can make new Deluxe Insecticons true enough to the original, but unique enough not to have any legal issues.

I don't think there are any legal issues per se, toy designs aren't copyrighted the way that media is, and any patents for the original toys would have expired long ago. If anything, Hasbro probably doesn't make toys for those characters because they rarely appeared in any media, with RiD's Chop Shop perhaps the biggest exception.

Nah, pretty sure the mold ownership is still an issue, otherwise there wouldn't be such a hubbub every time a Jetfire or Gobot-based character is released. I think Chop Shop might be the outlier in the whole Deluxe Insecticon group.

Then again, the main problem is with reissuing the old molds, so new toys aren't out of the question if they're different enough, I guess.

Yeah, the legal issues begin and end at releasing the original toys. That's already been decided in court, Hasbro can do whatever they want aside from reissuing the OG toys.

I’m having a hard time deciding wether I should cancel Dragstrip or not after the recent pictures. Not entirely sure I like the concept of a Menasor endo-skeleton where you just attach Stunticons to existing limbs.

I did however bite the bullet and pre-ordered Kickback though.

Not really excited about having a combiner that isn't really a proper combination of 5 bots.
At the same time...I usually prefer it when the individual robots are prioritised and rarely display my bots combined, but it still feels a bit lame knowing that Motormaster will probably have a ton of junk to lug around that is only useful for combined mode and will probably have a half-assed base mode to make the kibble justified. Unless, of course, I'm completely wrong and Motormaster will have it entirely self-contained. That'd make it less lame.
I'll still probably get them anyway since the robot modes look better than what we got in Combiner Wars (probably due to not really needing to do much to combine, lol.)

Overcracker wrote:I’m having a hard time deciding wether I should cancel Dragstrip or not after the recent pictures. Not entirely sure I like the concept of a Menasor endo-skeleton where you just attach Stunticons to existing limbs.

I did however bite the bullet and pre-ordered Kickback though.

I'm the opposite. I was set on passing on Dragstrip, but I'm leaning towards ordering, depending on what the rest of the Stunticons look like, especially Motormaster.

I'm probably in the minority of fans who are satisfied with the Prime Wars insecticons, though an actual deluxe version does sound enticing. I wonder if all 3 will be in the Legacy line, or if we might get 1 in the SS86 line.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I'm probably in the minority of fans who are satisfied with the Prime Wars insecticons, though an actual deluxe version does sound enticing. I wonder if all 3 will be in the Legacy line, or if we might get 1 in the SS86 line.

I really like the Prime Wars Insecticons. I thought the small size suited them, but then until Cliffjumper I always preferred smaller minibots, too. I've decided to justify the new Legacy version(s?) by holding on to the Prime Wars guys as clones or TF:TM scrap, though only time will tell if I'll use them the way or just keep them in overstock bins.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I'm probably in the minority of fans who are satisfied with the Prime Wars insecticons, though an actual deluxe version does sound enticing. I wonder if all 3 will be in the Legacy line, or if we might get 1 in the SS86 line.

I really like the Prime Wars Insecticons. I thought the small size suited them, but then until Cliffjumper I always preferred smaller minibots, too. I've decided to justify the new Legacy version(s?) by holding on to the Prime Wars guys as clones or TF:TM scrap, though only time will tell if I'll use them the way or just keep them in overstock bins.

Yeah that's the way I'm leaning as well. If I do get the new deluxes, one set will go on my TF:TM shelf and the other on my comics shelf. But which to where?

You know, Hasbro really kind of blew it with how they made Dragstrip split in half. Instead of whatever split they used with the current tabs, they should have gone with a clean split and a 5mm post/port. It would have the same functionality for the combiner as it does now, plus shirt/pants cross compatibility with Dead End and a few weaponizers, modulators and fossilizers. That would have been epic...

Personally, I'm still hoping we get G2 versions of the Stunticons, regardless of combination method. I love both versions of them

SpaceEagle wrote:Not really excited about having a combiner that isn't really a proper combination of 5 bots.

Unfortunately, that is cartoon "accurate". Though this is one of the many reasons I'm not a big fan of cartoon accurate except for the heads and general body shape. However, with the combiners, I'd rather have proper combiners that have robots forming arms and legs than attaching to someone else's limbs. Menasor and Superion's cartoon designs pertaining to the limbs was always kind of goofy. Just because it was simplified for animators to draw doesn't mean the toys should be made that way. I've been arguing this point for years since the first Masterpiece figures started favoring cartoon styling and it seems that someone in charge really really really likes the cartoon designs. It's too much of a good thing. I want a more "real" world version of what I saw on the screen. The initial MP-10 and on figures had it right, especially Wheeljack and Prowl both of whom I think nailed the whole interpretation of cartoon models translated to toys.

I'm a bit on the fence with the combiners.

On one hand, Combiner Wars did a great job of giving us modern combiners, though the Stunticons were probably the weakest of the bunch.

On the other hand, cartoon accuracy isn't always the best thing to strive for (as Ryan shared above), BUT ... it seems to be a completely new take on how combiners work so I am curious.

Curious enough to go out and get them when I already have an original G1 AND a Unite Warriors version? Maybe ...

Differing views on style of combination notwithstanding, I can come up with 1 positive about the new Stunticons that I can guess most of us approve of: we finally get a proper, proportionate update of Motormaster, cab-and-trailer combination included. Not an added upgrade kit, a true new version of Motormaster, with updated engineering. Like we should have got in Combiner Wars. But that figure was made with Optimus in mind. This one will be Motormaster 1st and foremost, even if he does get some type of repaint/retool. A new Magnus or Powermaster Prime perhaps, where the cab and trailer are integrated? At commander class, it can certainly be done, and for those 2 particular characters it would be proper scale. Though I don't see another Magnus coming down the line so soon, it would be oversaturation.

Even though he never combined with his trailer, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Motormaster mold used as Thunderclash.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Differing views on style of combination notwithstanding, I can come up with 1 positive about the new Stunticons that I can guess most of us approve of: we finally get a proper, proportionate update of Motormaster, cab-and-trailer combination included. Not an added upgrade kit, a true new version of Motormaster, with updated engineering. Like we should have got in Combiner Wars. But that figure was made with Optimus in mind. This one will be Motormaster 1st and foremost, even if he does get some type of repaint/retool. A new Magnus or Powermaster Prime perhaps, where the cab and trailer are integrated? At commander class, it can certainly be done, and for those 2 particular characters it would be proper scale. Though I don't see another Magnus coming down the line so soon, it would be oversaturation.

He's still not perfectly proper since the Motormaster component is just the cab, which only became his feet in G1. But I see why they went that route if they wanted to limit extra pieces for the limb skeleton.

william-james88 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Differing views on style of combination notwithstanding, I can come up with 1 positive about the new Stunticons that I can guess most of us approve of: we finally get a proper, proportionate update of Motormaster, cab-and-trailer combination included. Not an added upgrade kit, a true new version of Motormaster, with updated engineering. Like we should have got in Combiner Wars. But that figure was made with Optimus in mind. This one will be Motormaster 1st and foremost, even if he does get some type of repaint/retool. A new Magnus or Powermaster Prime perhaps, where the cab and trailer are integrated? At commander class, it can certainly be done, and for those 2 particular characters it would be proper scale. Though I don't see another Magnus coming down the line so soon, it would be oversaturation.

He's still not perfectly proper since the Motormaster component is just the cab, which only became his feet in G1. But I see why they went that route if they wanted to limit extra pieces for the limb skeleton.

How do we know this about Legacy Commander? I feel like I missed something.

I would understand the complaints about the combination method if Combiner Wars Menasor didn't exist, but he does. There already is a Scramble City style Menasor. Let this one combine in a new way, it's more interesting than just getting an aesthetic refresh of the Combiner Wars one.

Rtron wrote:I would understand the complaints about the combination method if Combiner Wars Menasor didn't exist, but he does. There already is a Scramble City style Menasor. Let this one combine in a new way, it's more interesting than just getting an aesthetic refresh of the Combiner Wars one.

I think some feel that really isn't a combiner, but rather a really big bot wearing cars as armor. I mostly feel this way myself, but am coming around to probably getting them. If nothing else, the individual bot and car/truck modes should be better than CW and worth having even if the combined mode isn't really my thing.

However, one big area of improvement I'm expecting across all 5 bots is better weapons. I prefer guns to melee weapons in general, so that portion should definitely be an improvement, especially if Menasor gets both a gun and sword.

Seibertron wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Differing views on style of combination notwithstanding, I can come up with 1 positive about the new Stunticons that I can guess most of us approve of: we finally get a proper, proportionate update of Motormaster, cab-and-trailer combination included. Not an added upgrade kit, a true new version of Motormaster, with updated engineering. Like we should have got in Combiner Wars. But that figure was made with Optimus in mind. This one will be Motormaster 1st and foremost, even if he does get some type of repaint/retool. A new Magnus or Powermaster Prime perhaps, where the cab and trailer are integrated? At commander class, it can certainly be done, and for those 2 particular characters it would be proper scale. Though I don't see another Magnus coming down the line so soon, it would be oversaturation.

He's still not perfectly proper since the Motormaster component is just the cab, which only became his feet in G1. But I see why they went that route if they wanted to limit extra pieces for the limb skeleton.

How do we know this about Legacy Commander? I feel like I missed something.

That was said in a quick leak, so not sure if it's totally legit. However, the "slap-the-cars-on-the-trailer-exo-skeleton" has been done already by a different company, and thus serves as a potential example of what's to come.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Rtron wrote:I would understand the complaints about the combination method if Combiner Wars Menasor didn't exist, but he does. There already is a Scramble City style Menasor. Let this one combine in a new way, it's more interesting than just getting an aesthetic refresh of the Combiner Wars one.

I think some feel that really isn't a combiner, but rather a really big bot wearing cars as armor. I mostly feel this way myself, but am coming around to probably getting them. If nothing else, the individual bot and car/truck modes should be better than CW and worth having even if the combined mode isn't really my thing.

However, one big area of improvement I'm expecting across all 5 bots is better weapons. I prefer guns to melee weapons in general, so that portion should definitely be an improvement, especially if Menasor gets both a gun and sword.

Not trying to change anyone's minds by any strech, we all like what we like and that's fine. It's the constant clamor I find a bit weird. Maybe I like it because I'm looking at it as more of a "supermode" type of combination?

And, in my opinion, we can be sure the individual modes will be better, except for Motormaster, since apparently Hasbro will keep refusing to give him his proper transformation scheme. But I've never given two scraps about the Stunticons, yet I'm really, really liking this Dragstrip.

Rtron wrote:And, in my opinion, we can be sure the individual modes will be better, except for Motormaster, since apparently Hasbro will keep refusing to give him his proper transformation scheme. But I've never given two scraps about the Stunticons, yet I'm really, really liking this Dragstrip.

Given the current penchant for scale, if they did that, either the vehicle mode is too small, or the robot mode's too big. Take your pick

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Overcracker wrote:I’m having a hard time deciding wether I should cancel Dragstrip or not after the recent pictures. Not entirely sure I like the concept of a Menasor endo-skeleton where you just attach Stunticons to existing limbs.

I did however bite the bullet and pre-ordered Kickback though.

I'm the opposite. I was set on passing on Dragstrip, but I'm leaning towards ordering, depending on what the rest of the Stunticons look like, especially Motormaster.

I'm probably in the minority of fans who are satisfied with the Prime Wars insecticons, though an actual deluxe version does sound enticing. I wonder if all 3 will be in the Legacy line, or if we might get 1 in the SS86 line.

I like Dragstrip. He looks really nice and means the other ones should look just as nice. The fact he's unencumbered by the combination gimmick means he's a really good robot and vehicle. So it bodes well for the other cars. I'm just not entirely sold on the endo skeleton with cars just strapped to the limbs concept. So not sure I can justify spending all that money and then not combing them because I don't like the actual combination. C ool looking cars and a truck is good and all.

I've seen the 3rd party attempts and I just don't like them. I feel combiners should actually combine. And the combined mode should not be able to exist without even one of them. This concept means I can buy a Motormaster only, and still have a fully functional large robot without needing the other guys.

I guess if I really like the other Sunticons and Motormaster is really cool, I might consider them. For now, I guess drag strip stays pre-ordered and we'll see what happens with the others guys.


As to the Insecticons, I never picked up the CW versions. So I can say these will be my definitive Insecticons.