The Energon Pub

roy_flagg00 wrote: I found that the characters smacked of a friends'esq quality, especially any scene involving minstrel monkey Anthony Anderson (the preceding comment is okay because I am black).

I just wanted to point this out as i am very opinionated on this matter.

I find it offensive you say that its ok to be racist just because you are black. Thats a bullshit double standard if i ever saw one!

So a white man cant say "nigga" without getting be-headed, but black people can use it in every sentance they speak, in nearly EVERY rap song AND call other non-blacks "niggas" because they are black and that makes it ok for them to use a word that would be otherwise considered as racist if any other person but a black person says it?

Thats horse **** and something that black people who use the word need to get through their skulls.

Just wanted to get that off my chest, thanks bye.

Sonray wrote:

roy_flagg00 wrote: I found that the characters smacked of a friends'esq quality, especially any scene involving minstrel monkey Anthony Anderson (the preceding comment is okay because I am black).

I just wanted to point this out as i am very opinionated on this matter.

I find it offensive you say that its ok to be racist just because you are black. Thats a bullshit double standard if i ever saw one!

So a white man cant say "nigga" without getting be-headed, but black people can use it in every sentance they speak, in nearly EVERY rap song AND call other non-blacks "niggas" because they are black and that makes it ok for them to use a word that would be otherwise considered as racist if any other person but a black person says it?

Thats horse **** and something that black people who use the word need to get through their skulls.

Just wanted to get that off my chest, thanks bye.

Seriously, check out a minstrel show or some of the other really offensive portrayls of black americans in the early cinema of this country if you can find them. You will then understand why my comment was completly appropriate. If you had made the same comment, whatever your race, I would have agreed with you. Michael Bay frequently returns to all to common stereotypes in his action movies regarding all races. don't get me started on ghettobot Jazz. I felt like I needed to consult my homeboy handbook just to understand the few words that he did say. Also, I was just kidding about the 'okay because I am black' thing. It was an attempt to bring levity to an otherwise disappointing discusion of an even more disapointing movie. Sorry if I offended you, but you are over opinionated anyway and I still think you are a dumbass for defending the movie in the way you do, ie. "...you just don't like it because you're a GEEWUNNER...".

Beastwars forever bi-atch (it's okay because jazz said that word in the movie).

roy_flagg00 wrote:

Sonray wrote:

roy_flagg00 wrote: I found that the characters smacked of a friends'esq quality, especially any scene involving minstrel monkey Anthony Anderson (the preceding comment is okay because I am black).

I just wanted to point this out as i am very opinionated on this matter.

I find it offensive you say that its ok to be racist just because you are black. Thats a bullshit double standard if i ever saw one!

So a white man cant say "nigga" without getting be-headed, but black people can use it in every sentance they speak, in nearly EVERY rap song AND call other non-blacks "niggas" because they are black and that makes it ok for them to use a word that would be otherwise considered as racist if any other person but a black person says it?

Thats horse **** and something that black people who use the word need to get through their skulls.

Just wanted to get that off my chest, thanks bye.

Seriously, check out a minstrel show or some of the other really offensive portrayls of black americans in the early cinema of this country if you can find them. You will then understand why my comment was completly appropriate. If you had made the same comment, whatever your race, I would have agreed with you. Michael Bay frequently returns to all to common stereotypes in his action movies regarding all races. don't get me started on ghettobot Jazz. I felt like I needed to consult my homeboy handbook just to understand the few words that he did say. Also, I was just kidding about the 'okay because I am black' thing. It was an attempt to bring levity to an otherwise disappointing discusion of an even more disapointing movie. Sorry if I offended you, but you are over opinionated anyway and I still think you are a dumbass for defending the movie in the way you do, ie. "...you just don't like it because you're a GEEWUNNER...".

Beastwars forever bi-atch (it's okay because jazz said that word in the movie).

Actually i defend the movie because: I LIKE IT thats all the reason for defending something that i'll ever need for anything.

Also, the whole "geewhunner" **** comes up because: TA DAAA! PEOPLE EXPECTED THIS TO BE A G1 REMAKE AND IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE

The only dumbasses around here are people who thought that and since that is the most common reason so called "fans" hate the movie then obviously thats going to be the most common response to them.

Your comment still wasnt appropriate, and still a double standard. This was never about how black people are portrayed in movies, this is about a stupid comment you made which basically said "i can be as racist as i like because i am black" and that is a real crock of ****.

Okay, an interesting question for people who don't like Bay in this thread:

If Bay's just making stupid, pointless action movies and has no talent as a director... why do his films consistently make a lot of money, where others don't? If it's such an easy thing, why can't anyone just make a low budget action flick that appeals to the "least common denominator" and be hugely successful?

That said, the hatred for Bay is due to a couple of things, I think. One, he's successful. There are other directors who have a similar style, and filmmakers who make movies that are far less technically competent than Bay. But Bay is making millions and millions of dollars. So he becomes a target. If anyone is a long time fan of Sam Raimi, they know what I'm talking about. Not that he didn't have detractors before, but there are a ton of people now who say Raimi's a hack after the Spiderman movies.

Secondly, Bay doesn't really play the Hollywood PC game. He states what's on his mind, and despite how much people profess to hate Hollywood double talk, Bay becomes an a-hole because he doesn't play that. He says what he thinks. It gets him in trouble sometimes, of course, but he's an honest person.

Finally, a number of actors have said he's a difficult person to deal with on the set, and take that the next step and say people don't like him. This is true in some instances, but a lot of people DO like Bay as a person. I've heard of a lot of people who've met him face to face, and they say he's a really nice guy, real approachable, etc. He strikes me as one of those people, and I'm sure most of us have met them, where you think, "He's a nice enough guy, I just don't want to work for him."

I enjoy his movies and think he's got some legit talent. I've said before, I hope he's serious about doing the indie movie, because I think it would be good for him. He's not my favorite director, but even eliminating Uwe Boll from the contest, he's far from the worst in the business.

KoH4711 wrote:If Bay's just making stupid, pointless action movies and has no talent as a director... why do his films consistently make a lot of money, where others don't? If it's such an easy thing, why can't anyone just make a low budget action flick that appeals to the "least common denominator" and be hugely successful?

Because there are more stupid people than intelligent ones, perchance ?

Sonray wrote:

roy_flagg00 wrote:

Sonray wrote:

roy_flagg00 wrote: I found that the characters smacked of a friends'esq quality, especially any scene involving minstrel monkey Anthony Anderson (the preceding comment is okay because I am black).

I just wanted to point this out as i am very opinionated on this matter.

I find it offensive you say that its ok to be racist just because you are black. Thats a bullshit double standard if i ever saw one!

So a white man cant say "nigga" without getting be-headed, but black people can use it in every sentance they speak, in nearly EVERY rap song AND call other non-blacks "niggas" because they are black and that makes it ok for them to use a word that would be otherwise considered as racist if any other person but a black person says it?

Thats horse **** and something that black people who use the word need to get through their skulls.

Just wanted to get that off my chest, thanks bye.

Seriously, check out a minstrel show or some of the other really offensive portrayls of black americans in the early cinema of this country if you can find them. You will then understand why my comment was completly appropriate. If you had made the same comment, whatever your race, I would have agreed with you. Michael Bay frequently returns to all to common stereotypes in his action movies regarding all races. don't get me started on ghettobot Jazz. I felt like I needed to consult my homeboy handbook just to understand the few words that he did say. Also, I was just kidding about the 'okay because I am black' thing. It was an attempt to bring levity to an otherwise disappointing discusion of an even more disapointing movie. Sorry if I offended you, but you are over opinionated anyway and I still think you are a dumbass for defending the movie in the way you do, ie. "...you just don't like it because you're a GEEWUNNER...".

Beastwars forever bi-atch (it's okay because jazz said that word in the movie).

Actually i defend the movie because: I LIKE IT thats all the reason for defending something that i'll ever need for anything.

Also, the whole "geewhunner" **** comes up because: TA DAAA! PEOPLE EXPECTED THIS TO BE A G1 REMAKE AND IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE

The only dumbasses around here are people who thought that and since that is the most common reason so called "fans" hate the movie then obviously thats going to be the most common response to them.

Your comment still wasnt appropriate, and still a double standard. This was never about how black people are portrayed in movies, this is about a stupid comment you made which basically said "i can be as racist as i like because i am black" and that is a real crock of ****.

your anger must make it dificult to read.
I said it was a joke. say the n work or call black people minstrels all you want. I give you my official black people's 'nword' pass.

you obviously did not take a look at the films i suggested.

Creature SH wrote:

KoH4711 wrote:If Bay's just making stupid, pointless action movies and has no talent as a director... why do his films consistently make a lot of money, where others don't? If it's such an easy thing, why can't anyone just make a low budget action flick that appeals to the "least common denominator" and be hugely successful?

Because there are more stupid people than intelligent ones, perchance ?

Then why aren't more people doing it? Why don't Uwe Boll movies make hundreds of millions of dollars? Why don't guys like Simon West, McG or Joseph Kahn, or any number of other guys who use a similar style and have likewise been accused of making "stupid" movies, have Bay's box office receipts?

And a fair amount of intelligent people like Bay's movies, as well. Steven Spielberg, for starters.

KoH4711 wrote:Then why aren't more people doing it? Why don't Uwe Boll movies make hundreds of millions of dollars? Why don't guys like Simon West, McG or Joseph Kahn, or any number of other guys who use a similar style and have likewise been accused of making "stupid" movies, have Bay's box office receipts?

They don't share his hype and budget. Bay's gotten lucky. Ever since "Armageddon", he was able to surf on its wave.

Sonray you are the one that is wrong. Spike, Sparkplug, and the humans were just side characters in the cartoon. The main characters and heroes were the Autobots. No way any of the humans could stop any of the decepticons in the cartoon. While in Bay's movie the humans could of handled the decepticons by themselves. Talk about Bay egoism right there! There was also no need for Section 7 ,Men in Black wannabes, in this film either. Face it the film was watchable for many but it still stinks. There's so many things that are wrong with it but you can't deal with the fact pal.

I dont like Bay's "style" of film-making.

Im not a big fan of obscuring all action shots with giant amounts of motion blur, it means all the hard work set designers, props designers, CGI artists etc did gets blurred over.
I'm also not a fan of the "blow it up because we can" idealogy that gets boring quick in many of his films. The Rock is a good example of a Bay film that does not over-indulge on the explosions. And it was/is his best film.

The last big sticking point I have over his "style" is abuse of slow-motion. Slow-motion is best when used in samll amounts to emphasize a shot, motion, emotion etc etc. Having half the film run in one form of slow motion or another ruins it.

You know what really pisses me off? Not the fact that some people hate the movie. Not the fact that they're bitching about it not being G1 enough (and when they whine about it not being close enough to the source material, that's exactly what they're bitching about. G1. It *IS* the source material!)

No. What pisses me off are the people who HATE this man and WISH for him to die. OVER A F*CKING MOVIE? WHAT THE FRIGGIN' HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU? In fact, there's an idiot poster on this very board that has a signature that says something about choking and dying, and that it's a letter from all of Transfandom.

That is not the case. Don't ever (I REPEAT EVER!) speak for the rest of us, you moronic toad!

Hitler? Okay. Hate him. He was a monster.
Manson? Okay. Hate him. He is a psycho killer. (but even he found Scientology too weird...that's saying something. lol!)

Bay? No. It's not okay. He's a movie director, a popular one as well, and he didn't make the perfect TF movie, but he made a damn good one and it was better than the source material.

Here's a question for the rest of us...has it ever occurred to you that if these people have that much hatred and such a death wish for another person over something so trivial...what the hell do they think about their fellow man? Or Transfan? Friggin' ridiculous.

I don't want to be a part of a fandom that calls for my death and hates me. I'm still clinging to hope that there's enough sensible and level headed people to actually make this continue to be worth it.

It's not the toys, it's not the movie. It's the people in in the fandom that ruin it for everyone else because they're so friggin' ignorant and subhuman.

It's fine to have an opinion. It's fine to disagree with others because of that opinion. To hate them for it? Wish for their death? No. Absolutely friggin' ridiculous.

Be ashamed of yourselves. Be glad someone loves you, it's not fair of you to not return it.

Huh? Where did the death threats start coming in? Or are you just referring to recent events in general?

I like the movie. My main gripes with it are:

1. Too much human involvement - humans should be helpless and innocent bystanders, not equal allies with the Autobots.

2. To a lesser extent, too many blurry scenes. But this is only a minor complaint.

The gripes I have with a lot of the movie haters are that:

1. It's foreign. Yeah, duh. This is a new universe, a new continuity. How come there wasn't so much hate about Unicron trilogy? I dunno, you tell me.

2. Hating on Jazz for adopting an Earthen 'urban' personality, or for Prime and Megs alledgedly being brothers. In the words of Prime in that BK commercial, 'Aw, come on!' Jazz is NOT black, he just likes the culture. He did not die a Hollywood black death, at least not in the stereotypical sense, he fought heroically, and it was clear he was second-in-command. Also - I'm actually very surprised at how many people simply DESPISE even the possibility that Prime and Megatron are brothers in an Abel and Cain way. What's wrong with that, in a new universe? No one's trying to make G1 Prime and Megs brothers. It's not even canon yet, it's just hinted at in the movie and beyond.

Get over it. If anything, let's complain about the movie's camera angles and scripting. I myself would have preferred things different in some way or another.

Raymond101 wrote:Huh? Where did the death threats start coming in? Or are you just referring to recent events in general?

I like the movie. My main gripes with it are:

1. Too much human involvement - humans should be helpless and innocent bystanders, not equal allies with the Autobots.

2. To a lesser extent, too many blurry scenes. But this is only a minor complaint.

The gripes I have with a lot of the movie haters are that:

1. It's foreign. Yeah, duh. This is a new universe, a new continuity. How come there wasn't so much hate about Unicron trilogy? I dunno, you tell me.

2. Hating on Jazz for adopting an Earthen 'urban' personality, or for Prime and Megs alledgedly being brothers. In the words of Prime in that BK commercial, 'Aw, come on!' Jazz is NOT black, he just likes the culture. He did not die a Hollywood black death, at least not in the stereotypical sense, he fought heroically, and it was clear he was second-in-command. Also - I'm actually very surprised at how many people simply DESPISE even the possibility that Prime and Megatron are brothers in an Abel and Cain way. What's wrong with that, in a new universe? No one's trying to make G1 Prime and Megs brothers. It's not even canon yet, it's just hinted at in the movie and beyond.

Get over it. If anything, let's complain about the movie's camera angles and scripting. I myself would have preferred things different in some way or another.

Huh? Where did the death threats start coming in? Or are you just referring to recent events in general?

Death threats weren't mentioned in this thread before I brought them up, but they've been there since he was mentioned as director, years ago. New posters keeping popping up all over the places with the same sentiment, keep it a fresh and relevant topic.

I like the movie. My main gripes with it are:

1. Too much human involvement - humans should be helpless and innocent bystanders, not equal allies with the Autobots.


I don't know. I kinda like the fact that Sam and Bumblebee were equals. If anything, the movie showed that no matter what race you are (Black, White, Alien, etc) we're still equal to one another and important in continuing with each other's existence.

2. Hating on Jazz for adopting an Earthen 'urban' personality, or for Prime and Megs alledgedly being brothers. In the words of Prime in that BK commercial, 'Aw, come on!' Jazz is NOT black, he just likes the culture. He did not die a Hollywood black death, at least not in the stereotypical sense, he fought heroically, and it was clear he was second-in-command. Also - I'm actually very surprised at how many people simply DESPISE even the possibility that Prime and Megatron are brothers in an Abel and Cain way. What's wrong with that, in a new universe? No one's trying to make G1 Prime and Megs brothers. It's not even canon yet, it's just hinted at in the movie and beyond.

Get over it. If anything, let's complain about the movie's camera angles and scripting. I myself would have preferred things different in some way or another.

People are going to bitch about everything and anything they can turn into a personal crusade. It's tiresome. And even if Jazz was black...what's wrong with that? We have young, old, black, white, whatever TransFormers. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Jazz being black. And killing him because he's the "black" character? Bullsh*t. Other black characters not only survived, but stole the show. And if they think killing the black character off isn't realistic, they're wrong. Pick up any newspaper dealing with crime issues and you'll see that it does happen. Unfortunately.

I agree that the camera work was bad in many spots, specifically the action.

Creature SH wrote:They don't share his hype and budget. Bay's gotten lucky. Ever since "Armageddon", he was able to surf on its wave.

There's one big reason why I don't really think hype or budget alone explain his success: Godzilla.

Roland Emmerich and Dean Devlin were in a tremendous place before that film opened. Independence Day was a huge success, they were getting film offers left and right, and Godzilla seemed like a can't miss prospect. They had a large(for its time) budget, and INSANE levels of hype. By the "hype and budget" theory, Godzilla should have broken every record in the book. Instead, it struggled to make back its production budget domestically.

Snakes on a Plane also had a lot of hype going for it, and it didn't do well at the box office. Evan Almighty is going to have a hard time recouping its large budget. And, using Bay as the example, The Island didn't perform to expectations, either. And if you're saying Armageddon gave him a rep to coast on... why did Armageddon, and The Rock before that, do so well? I won't say that the studio machinery and budget aren't a factor in his movies grossing as much as they do, but the studios didn't just throw a dart at a board covered in names and pick him at random.

The dislike for him reminds me of the disdain some writers have for best selling authors who aren't tremendous stylists and have a lot of technical issues with their writing. Despite the flaws, these authors are great storytellers and give people an escape in their work. Some people don't like that. Others do. Doesn't mean one group is any more or less intelligent than the rest.

I don't so much hate Bay as I hate his movies, they are craptacular ever single overhyped one of them. It's not that Transformers wasnt G1 enough, that the designs were ugly or that the Transformers characters got very little screentime/development. It was that like all Bay movies it wasnt about anything of substance other than expolsions, shakey action sequences and awesome special effects. For me that's not a movie its a theme park ride without the moving carriages.

Yours AK

Creature SH wrote:

KoH4711 wrote:If Bay's just making stupid, pointless action movies and has no talent as a director... why do his films consistently make a lot of money, where others don't? If it's such an easy thing, why can't anyone just make a low budget action flick that appeals to the "least common denominator" and be hugely successful?

Because there are more stupid people than intelligent ones, perchance ?

Way to phone in a response. Try harder next time, cos that was just lazy.

Creature SH wrote:

KoH4711 wrote:Then why aren't more people doing it? Why don't Uwe Boll movies make hundreds of millions of dollars? Why don't guys like Simon West, McG or Joseph Kahn, or any number of other guys who use a similar style and have likewise been accused of making "stupid" movies, have Bay's box office receipts?

They don't share his hype and budget. Bay's gotten lucky. Ever since "Armageddon", he was able to surf on its wave.

Sorry for the double post, but this is also crap.

Bay's movies that he made BEFORE Armageddon where also huge smashes, namely The Rock, and Bad Boys didnt do too badly either.

SpacerAM2 wrote:Sonray you are the one that is wrong. Spike, Sparkplug, and the humans were just side characters in the cartoon. The main characters and heroes were the Autobots. No way any of the humans could stop any of the decepticons in the cartoon. While in Bay's movie the humans could of handled the decepticons by themselves. Talk about Bay egoism right there! There was also no need for Section 7 ,Men in Black wannabes, in this film either. Face it the film was watchable for many but it still stinks. There's so many things that are wrong with it but you can't deal with the fact pal.

That isnt a fact "pal", thats just bullshit. I loved the movie, and i didnt think any second of it stank.

The fact that YOU cant accept is the fact that Humans played a huge part in the cartoon, and they did the same in the movie. Also, you cant make a live-action movie without having humans in it, especially when most of the plot revolves around human problems.

I can tell you didnt even watch the movie when you say **** like that.

Also, this bullcrap about humans never being able to take on decepticons in the original cartoon is a crock as well, as i saw an episode the other day where some teenage girl foiled Megatron, Soundwave and Rumble all at once!

Yeah...these "facts" you speak of just sound like arrogant fanboyish, anti-bay hate speech. I.e., not worth the bandwidth it uses up to type out the drek i see spewing from your keyboard.

Autobot032 wrote:[b]2. Hating on Jazz for adopting an Earthen 'urban' personality, or for Prime and Megs alledgedly being brothers. In the words of Prime in that BK commercial, 'Aw, come on!' Jazz is NOT black, he just likes the culture. He did not die a Hollywood black death, at least not in the stereotypical sense, he fought heroically, and it was clear he was second-in-command.

Again, i apologize for the quadruple post but i have to point out:

Wasnt Jazz "black" in the original cartoon anyway? I dont understand why people act like the new Jazz is such a huge change from the original, despite the fact that G1 Jazz was supposed to be the "black/urban" character.

Wow Sonray defending Bay 4 POSTS IN A ROW!
Wow man, where do you find the time?

Anyways The Rock and Bad Boys 1 (Both movies inwhich I liked) had $hit budgets and Bay used camera shaking and nonsensical camera techniques to cushion the blow of NOT HAVING LOTS OF MONEY...When you get 200 million dollars to make a film YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHAKE THE CAMERA ANYMORE like a 10 year old and use style techniques the geico Cavemen would turn their noses up at...My biggest problem with Bay is that he NEVER EVOLVED! He took his same style to the nth level with no evolution and that's why creatively he sucks as a director...But Hollywood and the lowest common denominator of movie-goes don't care as much about these things than niche audiences who love the potential content of something like TF becoming a movie care about...And that's the discconnect...

I don't hate Micheal Bay, nor do I hate his movies. I recently asked someone why they dont like his movies and they said they just didnt like Pearl Harbor. And their argument was "he took one of the biggest attacks on american soil, and turned it into a love triangle." So that was probably the most reasonable thing in an argument of hating Bays movies i have ever heard. The only valid reason, any other time i ask all i hear is..his movies are ****. with no real reason to back it up. I think it just comes down to...he makes big movies...so lets hate on a guy that is successful. and as far as doing the slow motion thing in a movie being boring..i think the Matrix will argue that point (first 2 not the boring 3rd one) and 300 as well. both of those movies which have revolutionized special effects and film making..which im sure Transformers has done as well. (I.E. It really looked like giant robots on the screen, despite you knowing its CGI)

wingdarkness wrote:Anyways The Rock and Bad Boys 1 (Both movies inwhich I liked) had $hit budgets and Bay used camera shaking and nonsensical camera techniques to cushion the blow of NOT HAVING LOTS OF MONEY...When you get 200 million dollars to make a film YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHAKE THE CAMERA ANYMORE like a 10 year old and use style techniques the geico Cavemen would turn their noses up at...My biggest problem with Bay is that he NEVER EVOLVED! He took his same style to the nth level with no evolution and that's why creatively he sucks as a director...But Hollywood and the lowest common denominator of movie-goes don't care as much about these things than niche audiences who love the potential content of something like TF becoming a movie care about...And that's the discconnect...

Despite the fact I like Bay's movies, I do agree with the sentiment here. I think he's got tremendous talent, but his success has kept him from taking chances and growing as a filmmaker. Sometimes a really beautiful or cool shot detracts from a scene, and that's one of the big gripes I have with what he does.

And I'm not sure the "shaky cam" is so much about concealing a lack of budget as it is more drawn from the cinema verite film style. I've seen a few interviews where Bay has said he's trying to put the camera down "on the field" with the human characters. It's not the worst idea in the world, and there are some scenes where it works tremendously well. In the end battle, not so much. I'm not crazy about overuse of the handheld cam, but it's become a really common thing in action movies now. I remember one of the Sandman fight scenes in Spiderman 3 being real bad like that.

A good example is Lord of the Rings. In the first movie, when the battles were smaller, Peter Jackson used the handheld. But in the later movies, when the battles grew in scope, he reduced his usage of it. I'd really like to see less if he does indeed return for TF2.

wingdarkness wrote:Wow Sonray defending Bay 4 POSTS IN A ROW!
Wow man, where do you find the time?

Anyways The Rock and Bad Boys 1 (Both movies inwhich I liked) had $hit budgets and Bay used camera shaking and nonsensical camera techniques to cushion the blow of NOT HAVING LOTS OF MONEY...When you get 200 million dollars to make a film YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHAKE THE CAMERA ANYMORE like a 10 year old and use style techniques the geico Cavemen would turn their noses up at...My biggest problem with Bay is that he NEVER EVOLVED! He took his same style to the nth level with no evolution and that's why creatively he sucks as a director...But Hollywood and the lowest common denominator of movie-goes don't care as much about these things than niche audiences who love the potential content of something like TF becoming a movie care about...And that's the discconnect...

Erm...ok...so let me get this straight..you want a hollywood director that has made some of the biggest box office hits ever to change his style of directing after about 16 years just because you dont like it?

Thats like telling Stanley Kubrick to stop using long tracking shots, or telling spielberg to change how he directs.

If you have developed a style that works (and Bay's does) why on earth would he change it?

And no, he didnt use "shaky cam" to hide a lack of budget, thats the stupidest thing i have ever heard!

Its called having a style and using certain techniques. And all this bullshit about lowest common denominator and all that crap is pointless as that isnt the case here. As was discussed earlier if that was all that Bay did, then why didnt movies directed by similar directors EG: Charlies Angels/McG, Tomb Raider/Simon West, Alone In The Dark/Uwe Boll: make similar movies yet fail where Bay succeeds?

Reason: Bay does it RIGHT.

Peh...using shaky cam techniques to hide a small budget...stupidest freaking thing anyone has said to me regarding this matter...

If he can hide a low budget and make the film look EPIC and HUGE and like it cost twice its budget, he OBVIOUSLY has talent of some kind. This has never been more evident than in Transformers! A £150 million dollar budget is NOTHING for this kind of film, yet he made the movie look and feel like it cost at LEAST 250 Mil!

Talentless hack my arse...

People who dont know anything about film making (or anything in general it seems) need to stop pretending they know more than everybody else and just shut up.

Erm...ok...so let me get this straight..you want a hollywood director that has made some of the biggest box office hits ever to change his style of directing after about 16 years just because you dont like it?

Dude you always miss the point...Like Bay you can't see the forest for the trees...Just throw a used condom at the audience...That's over the top, that's shocking...Wow lets all go see a movie about a guy who bones this hawt chick and throws his used condom at the audience...Wow it made 300 million dollars it's first weekend...Damn that musta been a great movie!!!! [/sarcasm-off] You act like American society isn't littered with crap that makes money...

At the end of the day you win the money argument...You win!! Now lets get into the substance of the movie where you lose..You Lose!!! Critical acclaim and money have never really seen eye to eye and if you wanna champion $hit just cause it makes money (ignoring the other factors that can be argued or considered in a debate deeper than just the money-side) then you'll never see a point deeper than Bay's generic realm of cinematic glory...

What's the point debating you? Your only contribution is that it made money...OK good job, now let the people capable of discussing more than that have a say...A say where it's easy to critique Bay's content like the countless other people that have proclaimed him the worse director of the past 10 years despite his movies making money...Boy I wonder how a guy who makes so much money is WIDELY considered a horrible director by most of his peers and random critics alike?? Rhetorical question BTW...

Did the Island make money?? Nope...I haven't seen it but from what I hear it might be his best movie yet it tanked...hmmmm....

Peh...using shaky cam techniques to hide a small budget...stupidest freaking thing anyone has said to me regarding this matter...

Gotta continue to OWN you don't I? BAY SAID THIS HIMSELF!! In a video interview he said (paraphrasing) "I didn't have alot of money when I was doing Bad Boys, so I used some crazy camera techniques and multiple shots/ cut-scenes to buffer the lack of money...The kids seemed to like it, so THAT became my style..."

You don't even know who you are defending...You fail so hard..

wingdarkness wrote:

Erm...ok...so let me get this straight..you want a hollywood director that has made some of the biggest box office hits ever to change his style of directing after about 16 years just because you dont like it?

Dude you always miss the point...Like Bay you can't see the forest for the trees...Just throw a used condom at the audience...That's over the top, that's shocking...Wow lets all go see a movie about a guy who bones this hawt chick and throws his used condom at the audience...Wow it made 300 million dollars it's first weekend...Damn that musta been a great movie!!!! [/sarcasm-off] You act like American society isn't littered with crap that makes money...

At the end of the day you win the money argument...You win!! Now lets get into the substance of the movie where you lose..You Lose!!! Critical acclaim and money have never really seen eye to eye and if you wanna champion $hit just cause it makes money (ignoring the other factors that can be argued or considered in a debate deeper than just the money-side) then you'll never see a point deeper than Bay's generic realm of cinematic glory...

What's the point debating you? Your only contribution is that it made money...OK good job, now let the people capable of discussing more than that have a say...A say where it's easy to critique Bay's content like the countless other people that have proclaimed him the worse director of the past 10 years despite his movies making money...Boy I wonder how a guy who makes so much money is WIDELY considered a horrible director by most of his peers and random critics alike?? Rhetorical question BTW...

Did the Island make money?? Nope...I haven't seen it but from what I hear it might be his best movie yet it tanked...hmmmm....

Why bother debating with you i ask? All yuo ever say is "BAY SUCKS BAY SUCKS! WAAAH WAAH WAAH!" with no evidence or clear proof or any other facts to back up your claims.

Oh and the Island didnt make money because it wasnt advertised properly, not because it sucked (which it didnt) its common knowledge that movie bombed because its publicity machine wasnt used properly.

See how FACTS can win an arguement? Maybe you should try getting some one day.

Peh, one of the worst directors of the past 10 years my arse! There are MUCH worse directors out there that make Bay look like Stanly Kubrick!

Your Anti-Bay hate speech is really not trendy anymore in this fandom just so ya know..maybe you should find something else to whine about?

Like someone said earlier people will just whine for whining's sake, and thats all you seem to be doing, and ever have done by what i have seen from your previous posts elseware.