The Energon Pub

Okay, I'm pretty much stumped with a problem I'm having and am appealing to the Transformers-collecting masses on this message board for help.

I recently acquired a really nice condition Prowl on eBay. Unfortunately, upon closer examination, several things don't seem to add up and I have a sinking feeling that he's a knockoff. Opinions from my Transformers-collecting seller friends run the gamut from "he's a reissue that's been tinkered with" to "he's an original with overspray". I personally think he's a knockoff because:

1. There's a "misalignment" of the colors and outlines on the police shield stickers on the hood and side doors. (Admittedly, they could just be poor quality reproduction stickers.)

2. There's a rather conspicuous "overspray bleed" of the black paint areas on the hood. (Though this could be the result of a poor restoration paint job.)

3. The Autobot symbols on his hood and back door are rather fuzzy and possess poorly-defined details. (Again, this could be attributed to shoddy reproduction stickers.)

4. The copyright stamp on Prowl's underside does not appear to match any known variant that I've been able to find. (Of course, the uneven paint wear and different paint applications on the bottoms of his feet could point to his having been frankensteined together from at least two different Prowls.)

Here are some pictures of the culprit:





Just to clarify, the level of detail seen here was not even close to discernable from the auction listing's pictures, so I had absolutely no way of being able to tell any of this until it was physically in hand.

So, the question stands: is this an original vintage Prowl with no mods, a vintage Prowl assembled with parts from several versions of the figure and given a poorpaint job, a reissue, or a newfound Chinese knockoff (even though my research has shown that there are no known bootleg versions of this figure)? Thanks in advance to anyone who can help!

The Lunar Archivist

There have been Prowl KO's.

Thats just too horrible to be a reissue and the poor quality stickers scream KO. There's no way thats and authentic reissue or original G1.

In light of the link you posted, let me rephrase that, First Gen: there haven't been any knockoffs that closely resembled Prowl that I knew of...until now.

Lunar Archivist wrote:In light of the link you posted, let me rephrase that, First Gen: there haven't been any knockoffs that closely resembled Prowl that I knew of...until now.

Okay, upon closer investigation, this appears to be a Diaclone version of Prowl, pre Transformers, that has shoddy stickers. It looks more like someone tried to fix his paint job with an airbrush more than overspray. I say this cause on the underside of the rear bumper area, you can see the cracked paint job.

You can clean him up with a light mix paint thinner and some reprolabels. He'll be good as gold then.

Even the original Prowl had a crappy paint job, but the stickers were better.

I'm actually leaning towards a Mexican figure. All of my experience with Mexican figures had many of the same problems as you.

Unfortunately, I am unable to back my theory up, as I do not have a Mex Prowl.

Anyone got one as a point of reference?

If it is a Mex Prowl, be careful with the paint, My understanding is they have an excessive amount of lead.

As long as you are not eating it, you should be fine.

Not sure if it'll help, but:



I compared this Prowl's accessories to those of vintage versions of Bluestreak and Smokescreen. By all appearances, the weapons are genuine but the missiles don't fire from their launchers. I know the reissues were "neutered" in this fashion, but still...

The results I got from Crazy Steve's Stampings Collection just raise more questions than they answer. None of the four known Prowl copyright stamp variants match mine, not even the Mexican one. Sorry, Drewcifer, I guess that's not it either. Even more puzzling: none of the Prowl variants has an unmarked left foot like mine does. Every known version has either a raised circle or a copyright stamp.

First Gen, you seem to be on to something. I compared my Prowl's copyright stamp to what was visible in Maz's "Joustra Diaclone Fairlady Police" review...

http://www.tf-1.com/articles/pretf_fram ... joustrapol

...and it seems to match (from what I can see). So the question remains...what the hell is this? A Joustra Diaclone Fairlady Police with crap stickers applied to it that's possibly been airbrushed? o_O

"curiouser and curiouser"

It is definitely not the Mexican version, which I have.

lol, that Spansish is a dead giveaway huh?

Bonger wrote:lol, that Spansish is a dead giveaway huh?

yes...that is one giveaway to tell the difference between the version one normally sees and the Mexican. The other giveaway is the black helmet and black chevrons/horns as well as the figure is dominating black.

Cascadia wrote:

Bonger wrote:lol, that Spansish is a dead giveaway huh?

yes...that is one giveaway to tell the difference between the version one normally sees and the Mexican. The other giveaway is the black helmet and black chevrons/horns as well as the figure is dominating black.

Pretty nifty looking fella actually, I'm gonna have to keep an eye out for one for myself.

good luck....but let's return to the issue about Lunar's figure. With the one in question, I am leaning to either it is a pre-rubbed, European gold box or the pre-TF/Jostra version. The copyright for the Joustra release, as is standard for these European pre-TFs, is the same as the pre-rub Transformers Prowl copyright. If the stickers were from pre-TF or a European release, the arm and door stickers would say Diaclone. Are the chevrons/horns glossy or matte in appearance? Also are the stickers shiny or matte in appearance? Because, the Prowl Classic/Gold box has "Diaclone" written on the shield stickers, and some of the units horns are matte red(stickers, in some odd cases) instead of shiny red paint.

To answer your questions, Cascadia:

1. The chevrons/horns are shiny red. They might actually be stickers, but I'm not about to start picking away at them to find out. I really don't want to risk damaging my figure, whatever the heck it turns out to be.

2. The stickers have a glossy finish, like photo paper, and feel just as thick. They're certainly not of the tinfoil thickness of the original vintage stickers or even Reprolabels.

It's possible the stickers were acquired elsewhere and may be a red herring. As for the copyright stamp, are you sure this is the same as the pre-rubsign Prowl or his Diaclone incarnation? I thought that those had a Takara stamp under the right foot and a raised circle under the left one. Mine has the former, but not the latter.

Well, the shoulder rockets were probably replaced by reissues bought somewhere to make the fig complete. No big there, but the originals would have been nice. And the paint job on the Diaclone fig looked similar to the one you have, with the exception of the Japanese police stickers that happen to be in english. Go figure.

In any case, looks like you picked up a real gem without even knowing it.

There went my theory.

It may just be a variant...

so that i could avoid KOs, i started reading this topic and eventually found out i want a mexican prowl
i couldnt help in the sunject at all, i dont have any G1 figs apart from brawl, frist aid and streetwise.

I also put this on TFW....I am leaning towards either the pre-TF/Jostra release or a pre-rub Prowl. Either way, it would be gem. Just get some reprolabels stickers and it would look fine if the sticker quality bothers you.

Cascadia wrote:I also put this on TFW....I am leaning towards either the pre-TF/Jostra release or a pre-rub Prowl. Either way, it would be gem. Just get some reprolabels stickers and it would look fine if the sticker quality bothers you.

I second the Reprolabels advice. Whatever your figure turns out to be, those stickers look like Grade-A #1 KO stickers all the way. Just looking at that huge white border around the Autobot symbol makes me cringe...

Cool find. Prowl's always been favorite character and toy of mine.

I really like that Mexican version. It reminds me of the way Bluestreak is painted, but better. Does it have the police bar lights?

First of all, thanks to everyone in both forums I posted this topic on for their advice, especially Cascadia and First Gen. Oddly enough, a bizarre coincidence may have provided us with an answer to this mystery today...and from a pretty unlikely source.

Last week, I won a spare parts lot off eBay for a little over three bucks. The lot included, among other things, three busted Prowls and a busted Bluestreak, and I just received in the mail earlier today.

Two of the Prowls were unremarkable...but the third Prowl and the lone Bluestreak made my jaw drop. And you're about to see why!

Here are three Prowls. The one on the left is a prerub G1 version, the one in the middle in the enigmatic one that started this thread off, and the one on the right is one of the G1 junkers from my lot:



Take a look at the black curved triangle and vents on the hoods of all three Prowls. The one on the prerub G1 on the left has cleanly defined borders while the mystery one has overspray of the black paint (as we previously established in this thread). Now take a look at the junker. While his vents are clean like the prerub, the curved triangle on his hood also has a combination of overspray and smear on it. The real kicker, however, comes when we turn the three Prowls over. Here they are again, the top being the prerub G1 version, the middle the enigma, and the bottom the junker:



While the prerub G1 version has the expected "Takara Japan in a circle" copyright stamp under its right foot, both the junker and the enigma have the same, thus far unique combination of copyright stamp under the left foot and nothing under the right foot! Pretty strange coincidence.

Now here's an additional wrinkle. This is the junk Bluestreak from my lot. By the look of things, he's a prerub G1 version:



Now look what happens when we flip him over. From top to bottom, the prerub G1 Prowl, the mystery Prowl, and the junk Bluestreak:



This Bluestreak also has the unique combo of copyright stamp under the left foot and nothing under the right foot! Strange...!

So what does all this mean? My best guess is this implies that, at some point, a line of prerub G1 Prowls and Bluestreaks were released that had the same copyright stamps as the Joustra Diaclones, i.e. a combination of "(Japanese kanji) ©TAKARA CO., LTD JAPAN 1980,1982" under the left foot and nothing under the right foot. Though less likely, it's also possible that at least some of the Prowls from this line may have had a problem with black paint overspray on their hoods. The latter assertion's admittedly kind of iffy since mine are the only ones of this type we've seen so far, but if more examples of this Prowl variant surface one day, we may get a definitive answer.

Tigertracks--it was a sweet little find. It has the Japanese police light-bar, relatively similar to G1 Prowl.

Lunar---you are quite welcome. I could not resist....my curiosity got the best of me.

The one that started it all is sure not the 1985 Takara version or the re-issue that's for sure. This may be the original China version released way back in 1991. That's how I see it.

That Mexican Prowl just became a new grail for me. Closest I'll get to G1 version of Movie Barricade.

Cascadia, exactly how many Prowls do you have? I never even knew there were Mexican Prowls (or any other G1 cars from Mexico)

I do not want to monopolize the thread but I will answer your question, Delicon. I have 13 Prowl figures from different TF lines with the Mexican version being #13.But in terms of homage to G1, I have about 11-12. For those that are curious about the Mexican version of G1 figures, this would be an excellent read for you. It is how I found out about the Mexican version.
http://www.tf-1.com/cat_frame.php?cat=mex