The Energon Pub

I've been wanting a G1 Raiden for a while now, and have decided to pull the trigger. I know it's going to be expensive, but I think he's really a collection defining piece. All I ever seem to find though is the Diaclone version. From the research I've done there are differences, obviously no faction symbols, the inclusion of a Diaclone pilot, and each figure came with a section of track. Are their any other major differences? The colors appear the same, are there any mold differences? Some sources say there are mold differences, but they do not go on to list what they are. Ultimately I would prefer the TF version, but I've found some pretty decent deals of the Diaclone set. Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Train Robo....obviously older more prone to breakage.

El Duque wrote:I've been wanting a G1 Raiden for a while now, and have decided to pull the trigger. I know it's going to be expensive, but I think he's really a collection defining piece. All I ever seem to find though is the Diaclone version. From the research I've done there are differences, obviously no faction symbols, the inclusion of a Diaclone pilot, and each figure came with a section of track. Are their any other major differences? The colors appear the same, are there any mold differences? Some sources say there are mold differences, but they do not go on to list what they are. Ultimately I would prefer the TF version, but I've found some pretty decent deals of the Diaclone set. Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

There was a thread about that not too long ago, but you got all of the main differences. I do have one concern, and that's Shouki's and Yukikaze's yellowing, which seems to be common.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

El Duque wrote:I've been wanting a G1 Raiden for a while now, and have decided to pull the trigger. I know it's going to be expensive, but I think he's really a collection defining piece. All I ever seem to find though is the Diaclone version. From the research I've done there are differences, obviously no faction symbols, the inclusion of a Diaclone pilot, and each figure came with a section of track. Are their any other major differences? The colors appear the same, are there any mold differences? Some sources say there are mold differences, but they do not go on to list what they are. Ultimately I would prefer the TF version, but I've found some pretty decent deals of the Diaclone set. Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

There was a thread about that not too long ago, but you got all of the main differences. I do have one concern, and that's Shouki's and Yukikaze's yellowing, which seems to be common.

Is yellowing common among both sets or is it more prevalent in the Diaclone set? Also was I correct about the coloring being the same between the two sets?

El Duque wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

El Duque wrote:I've been wanting a G1 Raiden for a while now, and have decided to pull the trigger. I know it's going to be expensive, but I think he's really a collection defining piece. All I ever seem to find though is the Diaclone version. From the research I've done there are differences, obviously no faction symbols, the inclusion of a Diaclone pilot, and each figure came with a section of track. Are their any other major differences? The colors appear the same, are there any mold differences? Some sources say there are mold differences, but they do not go on to list what they are. Ultimately I would prefer the TF version, but I've found some pretty decent deals of the Diaclone set. Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

There was a thread about that not too long ago, but you got all of the main differences. I do have one concern, and that's Shouki's and Yukikaze's yellowing, which seems to be common.

Is yellowing common among both sets or is it more prevalent in the Diaclone set? Also was I correct about the coloring being the same between the two sets?

The colorings are the same. I don't know about yellowing on the Diaclone originals, or the reissues during Victory.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

El Duque wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

El Duque wrote:I've been wanting a G1 Raiden for a while now, and have decided to pull the trigger. I know it's going to be expensive, but I think he's really a collection defining piece. All I ever seem to find though is the Diaclone version. From the research I've done there are differences, obviously no faction symbols, the inclusion of a Diaclone pilot, and each figure came with a section of track. Are their any other major differences? The colors appear the same, are there any mold differences? Some sources say there are mold differences, but they do not go on to list what they are. Ultimately I would prefer the TF version, but I've found some pretty decent deals of the Diaclone set. Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated.

There was a thread about that not too long ago, but you got all of the main differences. I do have one concern, and that's Shouki's and Yukikaze's yellowing, which seems to be common.

Is yellowing common among both sets or is it more prevalent in the Diaclone set? Also was I correct about the coloring being the same between the two sets?

The colorings are the same. I don't know about yellowing on the Diaclone originals, or the reissues during Victory.

JelZe - I've always been curious if you have a large collection of old figures. You seem to know a lot about them.

If it's white, it's sure to yellow....unless it's sealed.

fenrir72 wrote:If it's white, it's sure to yellow....unless it's sealed.

This is not true. It will yellow just as easy if it is sealed or not sealed. It is the environment that causes it to yellow.

GetterDragun wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:If it's white, it's sure to yellow....unless it's sealed.

This is not true. It will yellow just as easy if it is sealed or not sealed. It is the environment that causes it to yellow.

That, and it's not just white plastic that yellow: any color is prone to it, but it's most noticeable on white and blue, which turns greenish.

Stormrider: my knowledge stems mostly from observations of those figures, and the problems mentioned (yellowing, breaking) I've seen more often than not. Plus, I visit the TFWiki from time to time

Speaking from experience. My bone white Macross was well sealed in the box (not in the original box), Z Gundam full transform 1986 version exposed like my G1 Red Alert,Sideswipe(his legs) all got the yellowing. I leave near in SEA so maybe the environmental conditions have something to do with it too.But if it aint exposed directly to light(flourescent too) also helps delay the change.

My Raiden(Diaclone version that is......so much older molds) parts haven't shown signs of yellowing (though I don't own the (2)Bullet Train components (the white colored plastics) but one of the guys (the yellow flesh tone train still hasn't changed in color yet)

Sorry I didn't see this sooner... yes there are substantial differences between the various reissues of the Raiden molds. I know this because I bought a "complete Takara version" back in late November and it took me a while to figure out what was wrong with what I bought.

What I'm about to list is strictly from my own research. I might have some of the variants mismatched to the incorrect issue run (ie, I might imply "Diaclone" when the variant actually applies to "Takara" or "TF"), but the variations themselves are real.

To begin with, like you mentioned, the original version came with the diaclone drivers, sections of track, and connectors.

Once it was reissued as a TF version though, the molds were altered to include square indented spaces for the rubsigns. If each of the 6 trains does not include the mold alteration for the rubsign, then the set is a Frankenstein from different issues.

Also, and this is a major difference, the original issue, and possibly the first TF issue, has a separate orange torso plate that fits in between Shouki and Kaene; you can see the lower half of it in some frontal images of Raiden. Later issues eliminated not only this breastplate, but the screw holes in Shouki into which this breastplate fits (and also a hole in the waist-plate on Kaene, which is still there in the later version but is covered by a sticker). Here's some images of Shouki for comparison, which shows the versions both with and without the two extra screw holes:

<a href="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/BHiga6181/C131%20Raiden%20Giftset/C125-ShoukiT.jpg">http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/BHiga6181/C131%20Raiden%20Giftset/C125-ShoukiT.jpg</a>

<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/raiden%20shouki/maesezego/colec/trainbots1.jpg">http://media.photobucket.com/image/raiden%20shouki/maesezego/colec/trainbots1.jpg</a>

Now the thing is, my Shouki has a rubsign but my Kaene does not, and I don't know exactly what the problem is, if it's with the head module or what (the head comes from Kaene), but my head doesn't fit quite right onto Shouki, the angle is a bit wrong, so there's some other difference between issues of Kaene of Shouki that makes my two not fit together quite right.

On to the arms and fists (Seizan and Suiken). There's a major difference here... near as I can tell with the earlier versions of these toys, the front portions of the trains were almost like launchable missiles: they inserted deep into the train and could be fired off via a small red button on the top of the train. The fists were the same way, the molds were very similar to G1 Devastator. Later versions of these two eliminated the longer posts on the train fronts (and the fists) and also eliminated the sprint-loading and the launch buttons, and the fists and train fronts had stubbier posts more akin to G1 Superion. The incompatibility here comes in when you form Raiden you take those train fronts, clamshell them apart, and fit them onto either side of Raiden's lower torso to fill it out. Again because mine is a mish-mosh of versions, fitting the train fronts onto Raiden almost completely forces apart the upper and lower torso pieces (Shouki and Kaene).

I suspect, but I have no proof because online photos aren't that detailed, that the shoulder post sizes (where Seizan and Suiken plug into Shouki at the shoulders) are slightly different sizes as well because I have to really force them in and they're so tight that I can't rotate the arms at all.

Now Raiden's got two wings, that's one of the cool features about him. But there are definitely two different versions of the posts where the wings fit into the back of Shouki; I know because I have one of each. One version has a rounded, tapered end on the peg, and the other is non-tapered and the end of the peg forms a right angle with the peg body, essentially a flat-topped cylinder. I don't know what version/issue the latter is from; all of the online photos that I found only ever show the rounded, tapered version. But of course the two versions fit differently into Shouki, one snugly and the other rather loosely.

Also, there is a separate orange connector piece on earlier versions of Raiden that spans across the back and connects the two wings to each other (and helps keep the shoulders in place and prevent the
shoulder assemblies from flopping around). I've seen several online threads that claim this piece was eliminated from later versions of this toy.

I did see some forum threads from a few years ago talking about KO versions of Raiden that were showing up at discount retailers like Big Lots; I don't know if some of my pieces are from one of those but I doubt it because the colors on my pieces identically match the original issues and the KO colors were different.

As for a recommendation, I'm split here. I think the original version, with the extra orange chest plate and extra orange back connector, made the toy look better and fit together better. But the elimination from later versions of the spring-loaded launchable train sections is a definite plus, although it matters little in gestalt mode. But then I think the mold alterations to include the rubsigns looks neat and makes the molds look more polished somehow. But then I also think Diaclone drivers are neat too.

So that's all I know about different versions of Raiden. Caveat emptor: make sure you know what you're buying. And man oh man, make absolutely certain that every piece of whichever Raiden you buy all come from the same version.

Oh great! That means I have to pony up for the Diaclone version to make sure they fit.

Constantine wrote:Sorry I didn't see this sooner... yes there are substantial differences between the various reissues of the Raiden molds. I know this because I bought a "complete Takara version" back in late November and it took me a while to figure out what was wrong with what I bought.

What I'm about to list is strictly from my own research. I might have some of the variants mismatched to the incorrect issue run (ie, I might imply "Diaclone" when the variant actually applies to "Takara" or "TF"), but the variations themselves are real.

To begin with, like you mentioned, the original version came with the diaclone drivers, sections of track, and connectors.

Once it was reissued as a TF version though, the molds were altered to include square indented spaces for the rubsigns. If each of the 6 trains does not include the mold alteration for the rubsign, then the set is a Frankenstein from different issues.

Also, and this is a major difference, the original issue, and possibly the first TF issue, has a separate orange torso plate that fits in between Shouki and Kaene; you can see the lower half of it in some frontal images of Raiden. Later issues eliminated not only this breastplate, but the screw holes in Shouki into which this breastplate fits (and also a hole in the waist-plate on Kaene, which is still there in the later version but is covered by a sticker). Here's some images of Shouki for comparison, which shows the versions both with and without the two extra screw holes:

<a href="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/BHiga6181/C131%20Raiden%20Giftset/C125-ShoukiT.jpg">http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/BHiga6181/C131%20Raiden%20Giftset/C125-ShoukiT.jpg</a>

<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/raiden%20shouki/maesezego/colec/trainbots1.jpg">http://media.photobucket.com/image/raiden%20shouki/maesezego/colec/trainbots1.jpg</a>

Now the thing is, my Shouki has a rubsign but my Kaene does not, and I don't know exactly what the problem is, if it's with the head module or what (the head comes from Kaene), but my head doesn't fit quite right onto Shouki, the angle is a bit wrong, so there's some other difference between issues of Kaene of Shouki that makes my two not fit together quite right.

On to the arms and fists (Seizan and Suiken). There's a major difference here... near as I can tell with the earlier versions of these toys, the front portions of the trains were almost like launchable missiles: they inserted deep into the train and could be fired off via a small red button on the top of the train. The fists were the same way, the molds were very similar to G1 Devastator. Later versions of these two eliminated the longer posts on the train fronts (and the fists) and also eliminated the sprint-loading and the launch buttons, and the fists and train fronts had stubbier posts more akin to G1 Superion. The incompatibility here comes in when you form Raiden you take those train fronts, clamshell them apart, and fit them onto either side of Raiden's lower torso to fill it out. Again because mine is a mish-mosh of versions, fitting the train fronts onto Raiden almost completely forces apart the upper and lower torso pieces (Shouki and Kaene).

I suspect, but I have no proof because online photos aren't that detailed, that the shoulder post sizes (where Seizan and Suiken plug into Shouki at the shoulders) are slightly different sizes as well because I have to really force them in and they're so tight that I can't rotate the arms at all.

Now Raiden's got two wings, that's one of the cool features about him. But there are definitely two different versions of the posts where the wings fit into the back of Shouki; I know because I have one of each. One version has a rounded, tapered end on the peg, and the other is non-tapered and the end of the peg forms a right angle with the peg body, essentially a flat-topped cylinder. I don't know what version/issue the latter is from; all of the online photos that I found only ever show the rounded, tapered version. But of course the two versions fit differently into Shouki, one snugly and the other rather loosely.

Also, there is a separate orange connector piece on earlier versions of Raiden that spans across the back and connects the two wings to each other (and helps keep the shoulders in place and prevent the
shoulder assemblies from flopping around). I've seen several online threads that claim this piece was eliminated from later versions of this toy.

I did see some forum threads from a few years ago talking about KO versions of Raiden that were showing up at discount retailers like Big Lots; I don't know if some of my pieces are from one of those but I doubt it because the colors on my pieces identically match the original issues and the KO colors were different.

As for a recommendation, I'm split here. I think the original version, with the extra orange chest plate and extra orange back connector, made the toy look better and fit together better. But the elimination from later versions of the spring-loaded launchable train sections is a definite plus, although it matters little in gestalt mode. But then I think the mold alterations to include the rubsigns looks neat and makes the molds look more polished somehow. But then I also think Diaclone drivers are neat too.

So that's all I know about different versions of Raiden. Caveat emptor: make sure you know what you're buying. And man oh man, make absolutely certain that every piece of whichever Raiden you buy all come from the same version.

Thanks for the info, I think I'm gonna go with the TF giftset. If I can find one that is.

Holy cow! I've officially been bested!

Interesting, and good to know what to look out for.

Does anyone have a scanned image, either PDF or JPeg, of the playmat that came with the Diaclone set? It has the train railyard with tracks and stuff.

My Vife worx @ a copy shop and I would love to have a print out of that mat for a playset. She could even laminate it for me.

Any help would be appreciated.

-Thx

So I've found a Raiden Giftset I'm interested in. Box and foam are present albeit in a beat up state, don't really care about this aspect though. All the figures look good, and all the parts to form Raiden are there, but no individual guns or connectors. Realistically I would always display him in his combined form, but I know it would always bother me knowing I didn't have all the pieces. What really concerns me is that in all my searches for Raiden in the past I hardly if ever come across the indivicual guns or connectors by themselves, and I can imagine how expensive they would be if I did. The price seems reasonable, any thoughts?