The Energon Pub

Just read some of the twitter posts that were posted on another website concerning TFCC's dislike towards third party companies. They basically go on a rant saying fans should leave the product creations to Hasbro and anything no licensed by HasTak is "Junk". They also claim no one at the TFCC even owns a City Commander (or any version of that mold in general).

So yea, I'm not sure if this belongs here or in the 3rd party forum (probably the 3rd party forum), but I just though I'd share this. I personally don't see the harm in fans stepping in where HasTak drops the ball. I mean, we were all waiting for the MP Coneheads to be released by HasTak. It would have been extremely simple for them to give an official release. They dropped the ball and a 3rd party company stepped in and offered some damn good MP Coneheads. I don't see how that's taking money away from Hasbro.

I don't see that anyone dropped the ball on Masterpiece Coneheads. Business isn't as simple as "let's release X, Y, and Z. They want it, and hell, why not?"

Technically speaking, these third-party products are infringing on copyrights. So yeah, anyone who is involved in official products (Hasbro, Takara, FunPub) has every right to be upset, because it devalues their own work.

after that ugly as all hell cheetor,those really ugly combiner figs,and the spotty paint on sideburn they really need to focus on better designs and qc.
on that note runabout and runamuck are a nice start.

that being said they really dont expect me to believe that sideburn wasnt due to the fp protector coming out? call me skeptical

alternator77 wrote:after that ugly as all hell cheetor,those really ugly combiner figs,and the spotty paint on sideburn they really need to focus on better designs and qc.
on that note runabout and runamuck are a nice start.

that being said they really dont expect me to believe that sideburn wasnt due to the fp protector coming out? call me skeptical

I can't help but feel that this increased hating is because the third party stuff tends to be quality stuff that is more popular than their badly-painted offerings.

I dont think Hasbro or Takara have failed either.
I dont think just because the repaint is possible they should do it.
Not every guy have to be made in the masterpiece line.

After Kreo, HasTak has lost the some of the moral high ground on this. But kudos to them if none of them own a 3rd party product. Although ... really? Hm. I wonder.

Hasbro can complain when they stop simply repainting Prime white and calling it "Ultra Magnus" .

I do see their points, but I still think the 3rd party companies have their place in the modern day collectors' market. Hasbro caters to children far more than they do die-hard collectors, not that that's a bad thing, there's certainly more money in selling "toys" than there is in selling "collectibles" and Takara caters more to collectors because they sell better in their market as such, but they still have their boundaries with regards to new molds etc., so they're somewhat limited by what Hasbro does/agrees to do.

If Hasbro would put some real money into development of the Generations line and start doing higher quality figures (with a decent amount of PAINT) and start filling in the gaps in our collections that are currently being filled by these third party companies then they would take the market because God knows they could produce it and sell it at a lower cost than the third party companies who have to worry a lot more about high production costs etc. The ball is in their court, and I won't say they "dropped it", I simply think they didn't show up to really play. Generations etc. is more like an All Star game or Pro Bowl, it's a cheap exhibition to cater to the fans, but it ain't the Super Bowl (sorry to all of my overseas Transfans for all the US sports references, it was the best analogy I could come up with ).

If they want to keep producing smaller, lower-cost figures made from cheaper plastics with fewer and fewer paint apps and still charge more for them than they used to, then third party companies will continue to thrive. If they want more money from collectors, raise the production quality and produce what the fans really want, and if necessary, raise the price. I'm certain the money will be there (FP just produced the not-Insecticons and are selling them for around $50 a piece for what is basically a Deluxe and people are buying them). If Hasbro did that, some would certainly complain about the prices, but we would still buy the figures. If they want to really cater to collectors and fear children/parents won't buy the figures, then sell them online only on a special "Collectors'" version of HasbroToyShop and call the line "Elite" or something snappy like that and we'll pay the premium prices for the stuff we want.

Our wallets are open Hasbro, it's up to you. Keep complaining about the theft of your intellectual property (something you are certainly within your rights to do), or go on the offensive from the marketing side and eliminate the third party competition by out-doing them.

I don't claim to be an expert in marketing or sales but if there is any anger towards the 3rd party sector then f*ck do something about it HasTak! With the rate of 3rd party release items why is it so difficult for HasTak to annalyze what fans want and buy and work with that? Is it really that hard?

I think just like any other corporation if you put out a product it has to better than your competition...yes/no? Until the egg-heads and designers at HasTak step up and start whipping some ass with future releases then to hell with their piss and moans. That means fork out the money for new molds often and less repaints with crappy paint apps!

Again, people buying 3rd party stuff actually puts hasbro on the winning end. For example, you have to own classics magnus/prime before buying a City commander. Or like you have to own hot rod before buying protector. As for full-fledged 3rd party stuff like springer or devy, the way i see it you would already have to be a huge TF fan that you fork out money to buy these pieces to complete you collection.
If 3rd party companies create their own molds, Hasbro cant complain. They can't lose what they never had in the 1st place.

Hasbro's not the only company in the world that has the license to produce shape-shifting toys

I dont own a 3rd party set, but i want FP's superion and bruticus kits, and SFX (forgot who made that). 3rd party stuff are too expensive for me.

I also don't own any 3rd party stuff (Animated Menasor will be my 1st) but if TFCC and Hasbro are so pissed about this, why don't they step up their game? If they listened to what fans want, they could get ahead of some of this and make the stuff on their own. Fans will buy it. But all they care about is their bottom line, to mass produce the cheapest stuff and charge the maximum for it. Example, Prime having 24856876 repaints, and calling them Magnus, or Black Convoy, or whatever else.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:After Kreo, HasTak has lost the some of the moral high ground on this. But kudos to them if none of them own a 3rd party product. Although ... really? Hm. I wonder.

In what way?

I think he means that Hasbro's Kreon is a cheap Lego imitation: Hasbro is taking advantage of a concept that Lego first dreamt up.

I think the 3rd party stuff fills a whole that exists by necessity.

Yes almost everyone on this board would buy City Commander Ultra Magnus or 4 more MP seekers but Hasbro knows what they can make and make a profit on (or at least has a better idea then anyone here does).

Just like 3rd party companies can't produce toys on as large a scale as Hasbro, Hasbro can't produce a toy in as little a quantity as a 3rd party can.

alldarker wrote:I think he means that Hasbro's Kreon is a cheap Lego imitation: Hasbro is taking advantage of a concept that Lego first dreamt up.

In what way are they cheap?

Just because Lego is the most popular type of building toy made of bricks doesn't make Kre-o a "knock off" or "cheap copy".

That's like saying all Samsung lost the "moral high ground" by making television sets because they weren't the first company to make them.

Lego wasn't the first "Lego" by the way.

If none of them own the FP stuff then I pity them for missing out!

I think it is funny, as well as a bit sad, when people take a moral high ground when it comes to 3rd party Transformers.

If the quality is poor (ala dollar store KOs) then I understand not buying crap. But to deny oneself a superior quality figure based on a popular character simply because it is not made by the original intellectual property honor is something I just shrug my shoulders at. To each his own.

Note to Hasbro: Put in the Shout factory DVDs of the G1 series. Whatever characters you see that have not been turned into a classics universe generations-style figure will sell to fans. Make it a cool figure and the appeal should stretch to newcomer kids too.

I'd post a link to the actual Twitter posts, but I don't think that's allowed, is it?

WolfDawg wrote:I'd post a link to the actual Twitter posts, but I don't think that's allowed, is it?

It's allowed. Have at it.

Honestly, if the Club wants to put out their opinions on non-club matters in public, then they are welcome to face public discussion on those opinions.

To their credit though, they were initially only complaining over knock off stuff and not 3rd party additions. That may have changed.

I don’t consider HasTak one way or the other when it comes to 3rd party products. I don’t know what their logic is passing up on sure fire sales and I wont pretend to. They make something really cool, I buy it. A 3rd party makes something really cool, I buy it.

That being said I am actually starting to prefer supporting 3rd parties more than Hasbro simply because they seem to have their finger to the pulse of the community and have been doing some pretty neat things. I want them to be profitable so I can reap the benefits.

Takara wants to do some really underhanded things simply to suck money out of my pocket and that does not inspire loyalty. IE Promote the last chance MP Prime and then release a 2.0 version, one that was already planned during the marketing of "last chance" Prime.

To me, since many collectors of a line like this are likely completists, knowingly getting as many people to buy what they (at the time) believed to be their last chance to get MP Prime for their collection, all the while preparing to release a totally new version also appealing to peoples desire to have a complete collection is shady.

It is reasonable to expect a Magnus (probably with a functioning trailer) and a redone Megatron (to be in scale) as inevitable releases. Add up the total cost to me for 1 Prime 1 Magnus and 1 megatron that are now obsolete we are about at 400 dollars.

I know, I know, just don’t buy them. I’m sure that the business strategy was based on knowing that I would. A more fan based decision on their part would be to give us the Soundwaves, Shockwaves, Galvatrons, SKYFIRES etc that I know damn well they are aware of the desire for.

Not to mention the whole "here preorder this Rodimus Masterpiece! Oh thats right thats right we fixed the mold now sorry! Want a new one?" bullspit. FP had some QC issues and the fixed it in an honoralbe way. Tak? Sorry your **** out of luck. By the way the fixed version is more money.

If they want to behave that way I don’t feel sorry for them in the least bit when someone else steps in and bleeps their

one main difference i can see, and i may be wrong about this but bear with me.

Hasbro/Takara are international companies, involved in 100's of other concepts and projects that do not revolve around transformers, and whilst TF's may bring in a large amount of their revenue, they are not the only brand they sell, and therefor must spend time, and money on other projects to make sure all their eggs are not in one basket. This makes the share holders happier, and they have 10's if not 100's of other revenue steams. They also have to take into account suply and demand and overall costs.

3rd party companies - small scale, their whole project basis is around 1 concept (transformers), allowing them to spend more time on refinements, because they are not international stock market listed companies, the money they generate is only to keep themselves running, and give them a profit, and don't have to worry as much about share holders, stock market fluctuations and base materials costs. also if they make a run of 1000 items, they still have to be sure they sell, but 1000 is easier to sell than 100,000 items.

This means that yes you can buy better products quality wise from smaller none IP companies, but Hasbro and Takara have to make a profit, be aware of market conditions for materials and costs, and be sure if they make 100,000 toys, that there is demand for 100,000 toys. This can lead to lower quality, to make sure items sell for the correct price, but without Hasbro & takara in teh market place providing the original items, there would be no use for 3rd party companies.

If Hasbro and Takara closed down tonite, transformers themselves would not disappear, but with the availability of new concepts & characters drying up, the 3rd party manufacturers would be unable to sell in the volumes they do now, and over time would stop.

The same would happen is the 3rd part manufacturers were closed down, the market would be stiffled with a monopoly on the style of toy, and boredom and lazyness may make hasbro/takara lazy, leading to lower sales, and eventually they decide its not worth it anymore (think what happened to G1 back in the 1980's)

They need each other, and we as collectors and fans need both types in order to satisfy our addiction to plastic crack. Whether you like or want both is a different discussion, but to have a good environment for people to enjoy these toys, you do need hasbro, takara and the 3rd party manufacturers creating new ideas and characters to keep us all interested.

I agree that has/tak should either step up or shut up. I cant believe the lack of quality with some of the movie figs. Also they are giving far to many figures the new paint + new head = different figure treatment. lets get some new molds people! I mean how the hell can you not create a toon acurate character like magnus and then whine when someone else steps up and does it for you? Were talking about ultra magnus! Hes a main bot! Lets not forget that in order to own city commander you must first own the white optimus.... er "ultra magnus" fig.
As long as third partys are putting out quality figs and has/tak does nothing to change I will buy the third party figs. I mean come on! Have you seen the make toy devestator and bruticus?!?!?!? Friggin AWESOME!!!!!!!! Had hasbro given me an option to buy any liscenced fig that was close to that quality at a cheaper price I would have rolled with them. I even looked for a devestator by hasbro before resolving to get the make toy version and what I saw was a joke to put it lightly. That thing didnt look anything like devestator. Its a no brainer!!! Put up or shut up hasbro.

FellintoOblivion wrote:

alldarker wrote:I think he means that Hasbro's Kreon is a cheap Lego imitation: Hasbro is taking advantage of a concept that Lego first dreamt up.

In what way are they cheap?

Just because Lego is the most popular type of building toy made of bricks doesn't make Kre-o a "knock off" or "cheap copy".

That's like saying all Samsung lost the "moral high ground" by making television sets because they weren't the first company to make them.

Lego wasn't the first "Lego" by the way.

Same thing with transforming robots...not quite sure what argument you're making, though. I understand you're saying Hasbro's not in the wrong for doing their Legos, but I'm not sure if you're saying 3rd Parties are in the wrong... It could come off as implied, but you may have just came in where you did out of curiousity rather than opposition.


Anyhow...I want my cake and to eat it too. I think 3rd Parties are overall a good thing, but think they're going overkill. I thought it was great when it was more or less just FP and a few random things here and there, but it's become a bit of a turn-off that everyone's jumped on the bandwagon and there's so much overlap and just the sheer amount of product and nearly all of it carries such a hefty price tag. It's almost more stressful than cool...especially since timing is so crucial in this game. You can't really sit back, let it all play out, then make a well informed decision.

WolfDawg wrote:They also claim no one at the TFCC even owns a City Commander (or any version of that mold in general).

As a TF fan they are really missing out (or lying).

I can't say I like 3rd party stuff, since it's way too expensive for me to buy any of it, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it, especially things like City Commander, Protector, Warbot Defender, and the Knight Morpher, since they're completely original designs. It's a bit less clear with things like the smaller Masterpiece figures made by iGear, but even then, they're technically new molds.