This page contains affiliate links. We may earn commissions when readers interact with or purchase items through these links. For more information, see our affiliate disclosures here.

sparks or personality components

There is more to Transformers than movies, cartoons, comics and toys. Discuss anything else Transformers here.

sparks or personality components

Postby babylon queen » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:46 pm

Are these things souls in humans or computer programs in computers or other robots? or are they like animal personalites based on instinct?
babylon queen
Vehicon
Posts: 310
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:22 pm

Postby Dclone Soundwave » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:18 pm

.......Okay. A Spark is what is what gives a Transformer life. If it goes out, they die. Personality components give them their personality, it makes them who they are. I would think in Bw though, that they do have animal instinct. I think it was either the episode "Call of the Wild" or "Law of the Jungle" where the Maximals learn to use their animal instincts. Now this is just the way I think, but I think that they sort of combined their personalities & animal selves into one, but that's just me.
Image
Latest Acquisition(s):
BW Tigatron
BW II Flash Lio Convoy
BW Metals Rampage
BW Neo Big Convoy
BW Neo Magmatron
User avatar
Dclone Soundwave
Godmaster
Posts: 1916
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:45 pm
Location: CA

Postby Magnimus » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:33 pm

That always bugged me about Transformers, philosophically speaking. Sometimes they seem to have distinct, unalterable personality traits; at other times, they can be simply reprogrammed into different people. Weren't the Constructicons reprogrammed Autobots?

When so much is made about the ideological distinction between Autobots and Decepticons, especially in the original cartoon series, that distinction loses its meaning if a bot can be reprogrammed into a Decepticon.

So the spark does not confer any personality or behaviour? It simply comes down to circuits and programming? Does that mean with the right modifications, Optimus Prime can be Megatron and vice versa?
Image
Magnimus
Fuzor
Posts: 235
News Credits: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:20 pm

Postby Kranix-76 » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:08 pm

Scarfe wrote:That always bugged me about Transformers, philosophically speaking. Sometimes they seem to have distinct, unalterable personality traits; at other times, they can be simply reprogrammed into different people. Weren't the Constructicons reprogrammed Autobots?


Depends on the incarnation. Even in the old cartoon (when that possibility emerges), it seemed to suggest that for whatever reason, the Constucticons were more susceptible to the "reprogramming" than other characters. Plus it was deliberately sloppy writing for the sake of children; it's easier to tell a child that a good character was "reprogrammed" than switched sides out of its own volition.

So the spark does not confer any personality or behaviour? It simply comes down to circuits and programming? Does that mean with the right modifications, Optimus Prime can be Megatron and vice versa?


In regards to the modification of protoform sparks: if protoforms can be seen as nascent Transformers, then it is conceivable that its core programming can be overridden. The same thing can happen with humans, and is currently an issue of controversy in the West (i.e., the genetic manipulation of an embryo's DNA). However, I think that the best equivalency to a "spark" as we can understand it would be a "soul" or "spirit"--as the spark is the life essence of a Transformer, why would there not be a parallel to the life essence, the "spirit" of an organic being?

With that in mind, I could easily imagine a thousand different religions across Cybertron, arguing that the Spark is the essence of the entire being and the body merely the mechanical vessel, or that the Spark is reflective of the actions, thoughts, and feelings of the individual, or that a single Spark is merely a fractured part of some greater cosmic entity that it will one day become one with. And, much like any discussions of spirituality and the soul here on Earth...I doubt that one could draw any conclusive answers from the "spark" question, either.

Fun to think about, though.
Kranix-76
Micromaster
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:50 pm

Postby Night Raid » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:41 pm

Motto: "You can't hit what you can't see!"
Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
Dudes, we can't even quantify our own souls. How the heck can we quantify theirs?

As for personalities, that has as much to do with our experiences as anything else. The stuff that happens to us during our lives shapes who we are. So you can't really program a personality. You can alter it, maybe...
Life can be pretty sweet when your alt-mode is a B-2 Stealth Bomber.

And for those of you who are wondering... I'M A GIRL!

I'm not prejudiced; I hate everyone equally.
Night Raid
Headmaster
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:56 pm
Location: Somewhere over the American Midwest
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 9
Endurance: 10
Rank: 5
Courage: 7
Firepower: 6
Skill: 9

Postby Zombie Starscream » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:18 am

Motto: "Time to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of gum."
Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Night Raid wrote:Dudes, we can't even quantify our own souls. How the heck can we quantify theirs?

As for personalities, that has as much to do with our experiences as anything else. The stuff that happens to us during our lives shapes who we are. So you can't really program a personality. You can alter it, maybe...
QFT


Plus I think that the very basic parts of a personality is genetic, or in a TF's case possibly programmed. But there on after, the person's choices and life experiences determine how they will turn out. Not even identical twins who share the exact same genetics, are exactly the same in personality I think. I wonder if the Tfs would have the same difficulties with the idea of a soul, as we do. For all we know they would probably wonder if we even had souls or "sparks," just because they would be using themselves as a guide on what life is in the universe. Instead of just us thinking of "oh how humanlike they are" they are probably thinking "oh how Transformerlike the human aliens are."
I AM THAT WIERD FANGIRL YOU'VE HEARD OF.
Zombie Starscream
Godmaster
Posts: 1664
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:51 am
Location: Out There, Pennsylvania
Alt Mode: F-15
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 10+
Speed: 10+
Endurance: 8
Rank: 9
Courage: 6
Firepower: 5
Skill: 5

Postby Night Raid » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:05 pm

Motto: "You can't hit what you can't see!"
Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
Hear, hear! Once again, you say what I was trying to say.
Life can be pretty sweet when your alt-mode is a B-2 Stealth Bomber.

And for those of you who are wondering... I'M A GIRL!

I'm not prejudiced; I hate everyone equally.
Night Raid
Headmaster
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:56 pm
Location: Somewhere over the American Midwest
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 9
Endurance: 10
Rank: 5
Courage: 7
Firepower: 6
Skill: 9

Postby Brakethrough » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:11 pm

One thing i love about the Transformers mythos (and that more than a few people hate) is that there's a mixture of the scientific and the spiritual. I like that things like the Matrix, sparks, and Vector Sigma are sort of beyond quantification and are more or less mysterious catalysts. Along the same vein, Unicron is an awesome evil deity, and the Quintessons radiate a decent "near-demigod highly advanced mechanical lifeform" aura.
"A polar bear is dropkicked by a robot that turns into a police car."
User avatar
Brakethrough
Targetmaster
Posts: 680
News Credits: 1
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:01 pm

Postby Night Raid » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:15 pm

Motto: "You can't hit what you can't see!"
Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
I like that as well. I have no idea why people knock it. Transformers are mechanical beings, so why shouldn't their mythology and belief systems reflect that?
Life can be pretty sweet when your alt-mode is a B-2 Stealth Bomber.

And for those of you who are wondering... I'M A GIRL!

I'm not prejudiced; I hate everyone equally.
Night Raid
Headmaster
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:56 pm
Location: Somewhere over the American Midwest
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 9
Endurance: 10
Rank: 5
Courage: 7
Firepower: 6
Skill: 9

Postby Dr. Caelus » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:21 pm

Magnimus wrote:That always bugged me about Transformers, philosophically speaking. Sometimes they seem to have distinct, unalterable personality traits; at other times, they can be simply reprogrammed into different people.


Strictly speaking, humans can be reprogrammed too. The most 'successful' cases have been accidents (Phineas Gage), but we can do it intentionally to some small extent. If we were on par with TFs scientifically we could probaby do really scary stuff.

Doesn't require alterations to the soul (Spark), just the brain (Lasercore/CPU).
Check out my books, Titanomachies and Divine Retribution, on my blog!
Dr. Caelus
Faction Commander
Posts: 4636
News Credits: 6
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2003 10:32 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Postby Zombie Starscream » Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:34 pm

Motto: "Time to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of gum."
Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Caelus wrote:
Magnimus wrote:That always bugged me about Transformers, philosophically speaking. Sometimes they seem to have distinct, unalterable personality traits; at other times, they can be simply reprogrammed into different people.


Strictly speaking, humans can be reprogrammed too. The most 'successful' cases have been accidents (Phineas Gage), but we can do it intentionally to some small extent. If we were on par with TFs scientifically we could probaby do really scary stuff.

Doesn't require alterations to the soul (Spark), just the brain (Lasercore/CPU).
And some of it is disease too. Tumors, Alzheimer's, drugs, whatever will do it also. Rabies will turn the most docile animal (or human) into a vicious creature, and vice-versa. Probably a lot of the time it is temperary, sometimes it is not. If you stick electrodes into certain parts of the brain and give them short jolts, you can activate some emotions like anger or fear and whatever.

Plus the Tfs would be amazed at some of the ideas of our religions, that some people would say we were created and designed by a great Creater (in Christianity) that we get reincarnated (Buddism((sp?)), that we a long time ago lived a LOT longer then we do now, (again Christianity) and other stuff. They would think we were like them, in a sense.
I AM THAT WIERD FANGIRL YOU'VE HEARD OF.
Zombie Starscream
Godmaster
Posts: 1664
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:51 am
Location: Out There, Pennsylvania
Alt Mode: F-15
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 10+
Speed: 10+
Endurance: 8
Rank: 9
Courage: 6
Firepower: 5
Skill: 5

Postby Night Raid » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:39 pm

Motto: "You can't hit what you can't see!"
Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
It's nerd time. :-B

In Christianity, it is said that God created us in his own image. But if you consider the cultural aspect, wouldn't the reverse be true as well? We're conceptualizing the force that created us from a human reference point, in that we are thinking of God in human terms because that's what we are. After all, isn't God usually depicted as an elderly human male? I mean, we all envision our Creator as being similar to us and I imagine that's the case no matter what species you are. If ants had a god, wouldn't that god take the form of an ant? And since all of the above are organic, tied to biological processes and things, wouldn't that have an effect on our reference point, the terms in which we think of things? We are organic, so we think of things in an organic way because that's the only way we truly know. Things are born, they grow, and then they die. That's the organic way. But in an organic world, everything sort of recycles itself. It's the Circle of Life, man! So nothing is really lost. It just changes, and in changing it returns to its source. So it makes sense that we would think of souls in the same way.

Now what of a race of machines? Applying the previously discussed pattern to this case, wouldn't that make their deity a machine as well? And with a purely mechanical reference point, wouldn't they think of souls in mechanical terms? A Spark is brought online within the Matrix and is sent forth from there, and in so doing is assigned a living form... a soul is born in Heaven and sent down to become a living being. The Spark, within its casing of flesh or metal, lives out its life... ditto for souls. A Spark goes offline, and in going offline it flees its mortal shell and rejoins the Matrix, from which it originally came... a soul ascends to Heaven, the place where it was created.

It's the same thing, just in different terms.

Primus = either God or Jesus. I'm not really sure which.
The Matrix = Heaven.
The Pit = Hell.

You see? Different words for the same thing! The only difference is the reference point, the terms and point of view in which one considers these things... mechanical or organic. Different means to the same end.

And if you've read all of this without falling asleep, congratulations.
Last edited by Night Raid on Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Life can be pretty sweet when your alt-mode is a B-2 Stealth Bomber.

And for those of you who are wondering... I'M A GIRL!

I'm not prejudiced; I hate everyone equally.
Night Raid
Headmaster
Posts: 1246
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 1:56 pm
Location: Somewhere over the American Midwest
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 10
Speed: 9
Endurance: 10
Rank: 5
Courage: 7
Firepower: 6
Skill: 9

Postby Brakethrough » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:49 pm

Good stuff, Night Raid.
"A polar bear is dropkicked by a robot that turns into a police car."
User avatar
Brakethrough
Targetmaster
Posts: 680
News Credits: 1
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:01 pm


Return to Transformers General Discussion

Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit our store on eBay
These are affiliate links. We may earn commissions when you purchase items or services through these links.
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DREADWING Transformers Legacy Evolution TL-57 Leader Prime Takara Tomy 2023 New"
DREADWING Transfor ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WFC-K35 TIGATRON Transformers War Cybertron Kingdom Voyager Hasbro 2021 New"
WFC-K35 TIGATRON T ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "METROPLEX Transformers Legacy Cybertron Universe Titan Class Hasbro 2022 New"
METROPLEX Transfor ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SHOCKWAVE Transformers Legacy Core Class G1 Hasbro 2022 New"
SHOCKWAVE Transfor ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WFC-K25 WINGFINGER Transformers War for Cybertron Kingdom Deluxe Hasbro 2021 New"
WFC-K25 WINGFINGER ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "G2 JAZZ Transformers Legacy Evolution Walmart Universe Autobot Hasbro 2023 New"
G2 JAZZ Transforme ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SKULLGRIN Transformers Legacy Deluxe Class Hasbro 2022 New"
SKULLGRIN Transfor ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "BURN OUT Transformers Legacy Velocitron Speedia 500 Diaclone Deluxe 2022"
BURN OUT Transform ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "CRANKCASE Transformers Legacy Deluxe Class Hasbro 2022 New **IN-STOCK**"
CRANKCASE Transfor ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TRANSMETAL II MEGATRON Transformers Legacy Evolution Leader Beast Wars New"
TRANSMETAL II MEGA ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "OPTIMUS PRIMAL + RATTRAP Transformers War Cybertron Trilogy Kingdom Netflix 2021"
OPTIMUS PRIMAL + R ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SENATOR SHOCKWAVE + DATA ORION PAX Transformers Legacy Evolution 2-Pack 2023 New"
SENATOR SHOCKWAVE ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "NEMESIS LEO PRIME Transformers Legacy Evolution Voyager Lio Convoy 2023 New"
NEMESIS LEO PRIME ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "OPTIMUS PRIME Transformers Legacy Core Class G1 Hasbro 2022 New"
OPTIMUS PRIME Tran ...
* Price and quantities subject to change. Shipping costs, taxes and other fees not included in cost shown. Refer to listing for current price and availability.
Find the items above and thousands more at the Seibertron Store on eBay
Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #351 - Ask Your Dad
Twincast / Podcast #351:
"Ask Your Dad"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Saturday, June 1st, 2024

Featured Products on Amazon.com

These are affiliate links. We may earn commissions when you purchase items or services through these links.
Buy "Transformers Attacker 15 Bania Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of the Primes Deluxe Class Autobot Novastar" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Deluxe Windblade and Scorchfire" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Toys Megatron Cyberverse Ultimate Class Action Figure - Repeatable Fusion Mega Shot Action Attack Move - Toys for Kids 6 and Up, 11.5-inch" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Legends Class Cindersaur" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 12 Voyager Class Movie 1 Decepticon Brawl" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Voyager Class Elita-1" on AMAZON
Buy "Cyberverse Warrior Class Megatron" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Leader Class Starscream Figure Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Titan Master Vorath and Mindwipe" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers MV5 Turbo Changer Super Nova Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Platinum Edition "Year of the Goat" Exclusive Masterpiece Soundwave by Hasbro" on AMAZON