The Energon Pub

Brainfart.

If you'd look only at the movies, ignore comic books and other supporting media and the collective idea of what a Starscream should be... Where's the evidence he's either a traitor, a coward or is trying to overthrow Megatron?
When I look at the movies alone (and I do) I see nothing less then a badass hig-ranking 'con. Sure he's Megatron's punchingbag, but I don't recall that even being explained. And yes, Starscream suggested retreat at the end of ROTF, but it seemed like a reasonable thing to do. You know, with OP slaughtering the Fallen in front of their faces and the memory of the forest fight.

The reason I'm only looking at the movies is because I'm not in to any supporting fiction. As well as any other casual movie-goer, I guess.

RhA wrote:Brainfart.

If you'd look only at the movies, ignore comic books and other supporting media and the collective idea of what a Starscream should be... Where's the evidence he's either a traitor, a coward or is trying to overthrow Megatron?
When I look at the movies alone (and I do) I see nothing less then a badass hig-ranking 'con. Sure he's Megatron's punchingbag, but I don't recall that even being explained. And yes, Starscream suggested retreat at the end of ROTF, but it seemed like a reasonable thing to do. You know, with OP slaughtering the Fallen in front of their faces and the memory of the forest fight.

The reason I'm only looking at the movies is because I'm not in to any supporting fiction. As well as any other casual movie-goer, I guess.

Actually he's alot more subtle about it in this universe as far as I can tell.

In Transformers he took advantage of the confusion in the skies to hide with the F-22s and take shots at Megatron, aiding in his death. You'll notice he's way out ahead of the human jets when he goes back into plane mode, then when the fireing starts a single F-22 far ahead of the pack fires the first missles that help finish Megatron off.

Then, rather than keep fighting when he was reletively unharmed and the Autobots where beat up and mostly incapacitated...he flees to their base and takes command, reporting Megatron slain. Come RotF however Megs is back, and Starscream's all like "OHSHI-, better start groveling!" D:

I can't wait for how DotM takes this. Starscream is still the backstabbing louse of a yesman he was in every iteration since G1 and I'm eagrely anticipating how it'll play out before the end.

Capt.Failure wrote:
In Transformers he took advantage of the confusion in the skies to hide with the F-22s and take shots at Megatron, aiding in his death. You'll notice he's way out ahead of the human jets when he goes back into plane mode, then when the fireing starts a single F-22 far ahead of the pack fires the first missles that help finish Megatron off.

Wow, I have never noticed that. The 2007 movie is in my top 5 movies of all time and I must have watched it a few dozen times since it came out, but I never caught that. Now I have a legitimate reason to watch it again. Like I needed one. Thanks.

And far as Starscream is concerned, I think the writers (as dimwitted as they may be) were counting on fans' general knowledge of Starscream's treachery. But as far as general movie-goers are concerned, I guess you can look at him as a highly effective second-in-command.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:
In Transformers he took advantage of the confusion in the skies to hide with the F-22s and take shots at Megatron, aiding in his death. You'll notice he's way out ahead of the human jets when he goes back into plane mode, then when the fireing starts a single F-22 far ahead of the pack fires the first missles that help finish Megatron off.

Wow, I have never noticed that. The 2007 movie is in my top 5 movies of all time and I must have watched it a few dozen times since it came out, but I never caught that. Now I have a legitimate reason to watch it again. Like I needed one. Thanks.

And far as Starscream is concerned, I think the writers (as dimwitted as they may be) were counting on fans' general knowledge of Starscream's treachery. But as far as general movie-goers are concerned, I guess you can look at him as a highly effective second-in-command.

Yeah the Bayverse is full of many subtle things like that, to the point of it almost being continuity porn. If some people would stop and look rather than complain right off the bat, they'd notice it (not a dig at you, that Starscream moment is a bit blink-and-you-miss-it in nature).

Capt.Failure wrote:Yeah the Bayverse is full of many subtle things like that, to the point of it almost being continuity porn.

Yeah, now I'm curious to know what else there is that I missed...

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Yeah the Bayverse is full of many subtle things like that, to the point of it almost being continuity porn.

Yeah, now I'm curious to know what else there is that I missed...

Lemme think of some things just off the top of my head...

1. VW Beetle next to Camaro Bumblebee in the used car lot.
2. Megatron post-resurection bears physical similarities to Galvatron.
3. Optimus and Jetfire combining is a call back to the Unicron Trilogy.
4. Optimus using blades and Megatron using a flail comes from G1.
5. Soundwave launching Ravage down to earth from a compartment in his chest.
6. Spike's (from G1) last name was Witwicky.
7. Carly (from G1) is assumed to be Daniel's (from G2) mother (actress be damned, this is why she's better than Megan Fox already to me ).
8. Jetfire not surviving his introductory movie (he could only appear in one, maybe two episodes of G1 due to using a Macross robot design, which had been licensed as Robotech in America by Harmony Gold).
9. Despite the new look and alt modes, Optimus and Megatron's robot modes look very similar to their G1 designs.
10. Cybertronians being vulnerable to extreme cold.

That's off the top of my head, and if I was properly caffinated and motivated enough to search the internet I could probably find more.

Capt.Failure wrote:2. Megatron post-resurection bears physical similarities to Galvatron.

That was the only one that didn't stand out. But you're right. I even thought of a quick dialogue with he and Starscream that would have fit his return:

SS: "Master, you have been rebuilt into a more powerful form."

M: "Yes, I have been...galvanized."

SS: "...Galvatron?"

M: "Don't label me, you insipid fool!"

*smashes Starscream's face in*

I can dream, can't I?

You can hear the sarcasm in Starscream's voice:
"I live to serve you Lord Megatron."
When he says Lord, if you notice, its a bit deeper than any other word.
He has in fact called Megatron a coward, mistaking his dialouge howver explaining not to call Megatron a coward. Who's he calling a coward? Prime? He ripped Megatron apart and blew The Fallen into crap! He's calling Megatron or himself a coward, and I'm pretty sure he's not calling himself a coward.
Mmm when Megatron returned. "Wtf? He's back? Better prepare my sappy speech." As you see when he's coming into appearance he's all like "Oh my, Lord Megatron, I was so pleased to hear of your, resurrection."

Mmm he does keep it on the DL a lot in this continuity however he expresses it at times. You've got to know that in the 2007 movie Starscream only had 2 fricken lines, and ROTF had no plot whatsoever. You'll see in DOTM it will become alive.

Capt.Failure wrote:7. Carly (from G1) is assumed to be Daniel's (from G2) mother

A] Daniel is not from G2.
B] theres no assuming.Carly was clearly identified as Danny's mother.

8. Jetfire not surviving his introductory movie (he could only appear in one, maybe two episodes of G1 due to using a Macross robot design, which had been licensed as Robotech in America by Harmony Gold).

Skyfire appeared in far more then 2 G1 episodes.I can think of at least 7 he was in right now.I'm sure there are more.

9. Despite the new look and alt modes, Optimus and Megatron's robot modes look very similar to their G1 designs.

Megatron's does not.

Gyrotron wrote:ROTF had no plot whatsoever.

ROTF did have a plot, damnit.

Capt.Failure wrote:Lemme think of some things just off the top of my head...

1. VW Beetle next to Camaro Bumblebee in the used car lot.
2. Megatron post-resurection bears physical similarities to Galvatron.
3. Optimus and Jetfire combining is a call back to the Unicron Trilogy.
4. Optimus using blades and Megatron using a flail comes from G1.
5. Soundwave launching Ravage down to earth from a compartment in his chest.
6. Spike's (from G1) last name was Witwicky.
7. Carly (from G1) is assumed to be Daniel's (from G2) mother (actress be damned, this is why she's better than Megan Fox already to me ).
8. Jetfire not surviving his introductory movie (he could only appear in one, maybe two episodes of G1 due to using a Macross robot design, which had been licensed as Robotech in America by Harmony Gold).
9. Despite the new look and alt modes, Optimus and Megatron's robot modes look very similar to their G1 designs.
10. Cybertronians being vulnerable to extreme cold.

2. How so?
4. Optimus had an axe in G1, not a blade, but it is related to G1.

5. Actually he launched that from his uh undercarraige...I might be wrong, I haven't seen ROTF in 2 years.
7. Daniel's from G1, not G2. And it is confirmed that she is the mother.
8. He was in at least 6-9 episodes of G1.
9. Megatron 2007: No. Megatron 2009: Fusion Cannon fail. Megatron 2011: Fusion Cannon win.
But he was never similar besides paint.

I did this by numbers above not by ordered numbers

it was way too underplayed.

Susprising from Bay that, but its the case.

Without knowing the history of the relationship between screams and megs, one could easily assume that screams was a secopnd in command who was a bit snivelly, nothing like the schemer and deposer he normally is.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:
In Transformers he took advantage of the confusion in the skies to hide with the F-22s and take shots at Megatron, aiding in his death. You'll notice he's way out ahead of the human jets when he goes back into plane mode, then when the fireing starts a single F-22 far ahead of the pack fires the first missles that help finish Megatron off.

Wow, I have never noticed that. The 2007 movie is in my top 5 movies of all time and I must have watched it a few dozen times since it came out, but I never caught that. Now I have a legitimate reason to watch it again. Like I needed one. Thanks.

And far as Starscream is concerned, I think the writers (as dimwitted as they may be) were counting on fans' general knowledge of Starscream's treachery. But as far as general movie-goers are concerned, I guess you can look at him as a highly effective second-in-command.

That just speculation,it has never been confirmed.

Capt.Failure wrote:Actually he's alot more subtle about it in this universe as far as I can tell.

In Transformers he took advantage of the confusion in the skies to hide with the F-22s and take shots at Megatron, aiding in his death. You'll notice he's way out ahead of the human jets when he goes back into plane mode, then when the fireing starts a single F-22 far ahead of the pack fires the first missles that help finish Megatron off.

That was never confirmed, its just a theory. When Robert Orci was asked, he didn't give an answer.

Starscream GaGa wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Actually he's alot more subtle about it in this universe as far as I can tell.

In Transformers he took advantage of the confusion in the skies to hide with the F-22s and take shots at Megatron, aiding in his death. You'll notice he's way out ahead of the human jets when he goes back into plane mode, then when the fireing starts a single F-22 far ahead of the pack fires the first missles that help finish Megatron off.

That was never confirmed, its just a theory. When Robert Orci was asked, he didn't give an answer.

Meh, I know what I saw.

Gyrotron wrote:7. Daniel's from G1, not G2. And it is confirmed that she is the mother.

Wait...I always called the series post animated film (with Hotrod and Galvatron and all that) G2. Wrong terminology on my part?

Gyrotron wrote:9. Megatron 2007: No.

False. Yes there are various differences (namely the plate sections for when he transforms and the lack of his main gun) but the facial structure and general physical build are the same. It's not something you notice at a glance.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Gyrotron wrote:ROTF had no plot whatsoever.

ROTF did have a plot, damnit.

Of course it had a plot. Everyone knows it had a plot. Of course I don't expect anyone to know what a plot is or be qualified to comment on such.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Gyrotron wrote:False. Yes there are various differences (namely the plate sections for when he transforms and the lack of his main gun) but the facial structure and general physical build are the same. It's not something you notice at a glance.

What?

G1 Megatron has a bucket helmet and a human face. Movie Megatron has the decepticon logo for a face with fangs and general monstrousness.
G1 Megatron is made up of squares and rectangles. Movie Megatron is made up of jagged spikes.
G1 Megatron stands up straight like a human. Movie Megatron crouches like a monster (in 2007 anyway).

Optimus and Jazz are the only characters that retain their G1 shape. Im not saying that's a BAD thing, Im just saying its incorrect to say Movie Megatron is similar to G1 Megatron in structure.

Starscream GaGa wrote:What?

G1 Megatron has a bucket helmet and a human face. Movie Megatron has the decepticon logo for a face with fangs and general monstrousness.
G1 Megatron is made up of squares and rectangles. Movie Megatron is made up of jagged spikes.
G1 Megatron stands up straight like a human. Movie Megatron crouches like a monster (in 2007 anyway).

Optimus and Jazz are the only characters that retain their G1 shape. Im not saying that's a BAD thing, Im just saying its incorrect to say Movie Megatron is similar to G1 Megatron in structure.

I believe Capt.Failure was talking about movie Megs had resemblance to G1 Galvotron, not G1 Megatron.

Capt.Failure wrote:9. Despite the new look and alt modes, Optimus and Megatron's robot modes look very similar to their G1 designs.

A bit subdued, but yeah, as of DotM, they do share some key features - primarily the fusion cannon on the arm, the general helmet shape, large boxy chest, and largely gray/metallic color scheme. Obviously the different designers took their own spin on it, but there's certainly more than a passing resemblance.

A lot of the bots have a few features from previous counterparts, actually. Brawl has the G1's back-cannon(s), Rampage has the BW's treads and crab-like features, Shockwave has... well, a LOT of the G1's looks. And the Animated's chin.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:What?

G1 Megatron has a bucket helmet and a human face. Movie Megatron has the decepticon logo for a face with fangs and general monstrousness.
G1 Megatron is made up of squares and rectangles. Movie Megatron is made up of jagged spikes.
G1 Megatron stands up straight like a human. Movie Megatron crouches like a monster (in 2007 anyway).

Optimus and Jazz are the only characters that retain their G1 shape. Im not saying that's a BAD thing, Im just saying its incorrect to say Movie Megatron is similar to G1 Megatron in structure.

I believe Capt.Failure was talking about movie Megs had resemblance to G1 Galvotron, not G1 Megatron.

That doesn't even help, even if he was, which he wasn't, as he said G1 Megatron and movie Megatron.

Noideaforaname wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:9. Despite the new look and alt modes, Optimus and Megatron's robot modes look very similar to their G1 designs.

A bit subdued, but yeah, as of DotM, they do share some key features - primarily the fusion cannon on the arm, the general helmet shape, large boxy chest, and largely gray/metallic color scheme. Obviously the different designers took their own spin on it, but there's certainly more than a passing resemblance.

A lot of the bots have a few features from previous counterparts, actually. Brawl has the G1's back-cannon(s), Rampage has the BW's treads and crab-like features, Shockwave has... well, a LOT of the G1's looks. And the Animated's chin.

Well now...he does kinda look like him, doesn't he? Not exactly, but still with resemblence.

JetOptimus23 wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:9. Despite the new look and alt modes, Optimus and Megatron's robot modes look very similar to their G1 designs.

A bit subdued, but yeah, as of DotM, they do share some key features - primarily the fusion cannon on the arm, the general helmet shape, large boxy chest, and largely gray/metallic color scheme. Obviously the different designers took their own spin on it, but there's certainly more than a passing resemblance.

A lot of the bots have a few features from previous counterparts, actually. Brawl has the G1's back-cannon(s), Rampage has the BW's treads and crab-like features, Shockwave has... well, a LOT of the G1's looks. And the Animated's chin.

Well now...he does kinda look like him, doesn't he? Not exactly, but still with resemblence.

I noticed that when the first pictures were leaked :^)

RhA wrote:Brainfart.

If you'd look only at the movies, ignore comic books and other supporting media and the collective idea of what a Starscream should be... Where's the evidence he's either a traitor, a coward or is trying to overthrow Megatron?
When I look at the movies alone (and I do) I see nothing less then a badass hig-ranking 'con. Sure he's Megatron's punchingbag, but I don't recall that even being explained. And yes, Starscream suggested retreat at the end of ROTF, but it seemed like a reasonable thing to do. You know, with OP slaughtering the Fallen in front of their faces and the memory of the forest fight.

The reason I'm only looking at the movies is because I'm not in to any supporting fiction. As well as any other casual movie-goer, I guess.

In the DOTM trailer starscream appears to be dying on the roof when BB catches sam and carly, maybe it'll be explained then

Capt.Failure wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Actually he's alot more subtle about it in this universe as far as I can tell.

In Transformers he took advantage of the confusion in the skies to hide with the F-22s and take shots at Megatron, aiding in his death. You'll notice he's way out ahead of the human jets when he goes back into plane mode, then when the fireing starts a single F-22 far ahead of the pack fires the first missles that help finish Megatron off.

That was never confirmed, its just a theory. When Robert Orci was asked, he didn't give an answer.

Meh, I know what I saw.

No,no fiction mentions him doing it,Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman never confirmed,Michael Bay never said anything, and his character does seems act exactly like his G1 verison.

TulioDude wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

Starscream GaGa wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:Actually he's alot more subtle about it in this universe as far as I can tell.

In Transformers he took advantage of the confusion in the skies to hide with the F-22s and take shots at Megatron, aiding in his death. You'll notice he's way out ahead of the human jets when he goes back into plane mode, then when the fireing starts a single F-22 far ahead of the pack fires the first missles that help finish Megatron off.

That was never confirmed, its just a theory. When Robert Orci was asked, he didn't give an answer.

Meh, I know what I saw.

No,no fiction mentions him doing it,Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman never confirmed,Michael Bay never said anything, and his character does seems act exactly like his G1 verison.

I guess its one of these mysteries never-to-be solved. Like Jack the Ripper.

A little off the subject, but I was kinda hoping to see a fight between Megatron and Starscream. You know like Starscream gets sick of getting smacked around, and fights back, I think it would be interesting to see.
(And I can't believe that more of you didn't notice the scene where Starscream shot at Megatron in the 2007 movie!)