The Energon Pub

Well, I have not felt motivated, but have wanted to do this for a while. And then Blurrz Did It so here is my go at a write up. Will try to do one weekly'



Why should we love Bayformers?
Stixx

Well, I know most of you may have stopped at the title. Probably about half of the people who are reading this have nothing better to do. ¼ are reading it to destroy my points (Counterpunch) and another ¼ are reading it for various other reasons. Well, where shall I begin. I got back into collecting, back into transformers because of the movies. I personally love complex transformations, so I like the Bayformers in that respect. But in all truth, we owe Mr. Bay.

Micheal Bay did us a service. He gave new life to a dying franchise. Michael Bay revived this franchise. If it were not for Bay, then where would we be. Where were we before the movie, Transformers Cybertron? How many people want to go back to that? If it were not for Michael bay, Transformers would be dead. Long gone. The Convention exclusives would have died out. The Fiction, from what I remember, sucked. The animation did. I grew up in that era, so I know. I saw the range of Energon Ironhide's Facial Expressions. Transformers used to be packed into the last bit of shelf space, now they are reserved to be the best. Bay put Tfs back into the spotlight, and we owe him for that.

Transformations have steadily gotten more complex. Toys are usually made, and the cartoon counterparts reflect the toy. Bay decided on the designs and the toys were made from those designs. The CGI models have tens of thousands of moving parts. Hasbro has stepped up to their game to bring us Movie accurate designs. Hasbro's level of engineering has gone astoundingly high. Let's compare 2 leaders, lets say Cybertron Optimus Prime and 2007 Movie Optimus Prime. Look at the articulation differences. Look at the complexity of transformation. Now compare Cybertron Optimus Prime with ROTF Optimus Prime. Look at the supermodes. One created with some kibble, the other from a fully transforming articulated leader class figure. Both Movie Primes have electronics in them. Cybertron Prime does not.

I am tired of seeing the Bay Hatemail on the boards. People want to see G1 remade with CGI and real Human Actors. Most don't seem to understand the fact that this has to appeal to everyone. It has to be eye catching. It has to pop. Apparently Most Fans think Michael bay is supposed to do exactly what they say. No. I make movies. I know what it is like. People tell me all the time, to change this and that. That is his vision of transformers. It is what he sees. We can't kill him for that. It is just like a fanfic, ahuge, multimillion dollar fanfic. You don't have to watch it. Period.

Michael Bay has not done us a disservice. He is a guy who may be a little off his rocker, but we as TF fans, owe him. He has given Hasbro the ability to make lines of total fanwank. We now have had 3 lines dedicated to the fans, with a whole new continuity, that I didn't care for,, allegedly full of fanwank. Just people, shut up about Michael Bay. Didn't your mom tell you, “If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all”


Stixx

Hallelujah! Praise Primus! Finally someone who actually likes the movies and makes a great post defending the franchise. You rock Stixx.

I would agree that the movies have revitalized the franchise, but I don't think Michael Bay deserves that much credit. I think the movies have been popular in spite of him, not because of him.

I feel the uncontrollable urge to nitpick here. I mean no offense, but I just have to do this.

Micheal Bay did us a service. He gave new life to a dying franchise. Michael Bay revived this franchise. If it were not for Bay, then where would we be. Where were we before the movie, Transformers Cybertron? How many people want to go back to that? If it were not for Michael bay, Transformers would be dead. Long gone. The Convention exclusives would have died out. The Fiction, from what I remember, sucked. The animation did. I grew up in that era, so I know. I saw the range of Energon Ironhide's Facial Expressions. Transformers used to be packed into the last bit of shelf space, now they are reserved to be the best. Bay put Tfs back into the spotlight, and we owe him for that.

We owe Bay? Really. Yes he, or more accurately the movies which were Hasbro's plan anyway, regardless of director, gave the franchise some freshness and renewal, but remember Hasbro launched Classics before the Movie, and decided to come back to them not because the movie did well, but because Classics did well. They would not have taken the time to do 2 more versions of it only because the movie did well.


As far as shelf space goes. I could find every single regular release figure from the A/E/C lines back in the day. They got a pretty large are of shelf, and there was always something I could buy. Now, I'm lucky if they get a couple pegs and maybe an end cap. And there always seems to be a wave and then nothing for 2 waves and then maybe another wave etc. I've had to resort to BBTS to get most of the stuff. Heck I have yet to see Generations waves appear here at my Walmart. A/E/C was always there.


The Movies: Have they done well , no doubt, would they have done differently under another director? Would they have sucked balls? Or would they have been the next Godfather Saga? Who knows, but I suspect they would have done similarly maybe even better. Are there good toys in the line yes, are there totally garbage worthy figures yes that too.

A dying franchise? Who spends millions of dollars on a dying franchise? If that were the case we would have seen a 30 million dollar movie about the Toxic Avenger, now there's a dead franchise.

I think Hasbro new TF's needed to be freshened up, and realized CGI was ready to create realistic looking transformers and decided to make a movie. Bay just happened to pick up the ball for that one.

Cyberton really you hate on Cybertron? Cybertron had awesome figures it gave us, Prime, Hot Shot, Cybertron Defense Team, Primus for pete sake; an actual spheroid planet-former amongst many other great figures, An entire generation of Botcon toys which would have happened with or without movies. Figures that got repainted for the movies a few times like Red Alert, Hard Top etc..

Transformations have steadily gotten more complex. Toys are usually made, and the cartoon counterparts reflect the toy. Bay decided on the designs and the toys were made from those designs. The CGI models have tens of thousands of moving parts. Hasbro has stepped up to their game to bring us Movie accurate designs. Hasbro's level of engineering has gone astoundingly high.

True, but seriously Takara had the difficulty down pat back in 2000 with Car Robots. Gigatron is every bit as complex as say leader class Movie Prime and he gets 10 modes some unconvincing yes but 10 modes nonetheless.

A/E/C also got the toys to cartoon accuracy pretty darn close for the most part. Hell Cybertron even featured transformation sequences in the cartoon which truly mirrored accurately the real deal.

Let's compare 2 leaders, lets say Cybertron Optimus Prime and 2007 Movie Optimus Prime. Look at the articulation differences. Look at the complexity of transformation. Now compare Cybertron Optimus Prime with ROTF Optimus Prime. Look at the supermodes. One created with some kibble, the other from a fully transforming articulated leader class figure. Both Movie Primes have electronics in them. Cybertron Prime does not.

Let's compare: Cybertron Prime does have lights and sounds, they aren't the greatest, but he does have them. Both Movie Primes only have a single phrase: "I am Optimus Prime" and he says it over and over again. It is hardly something to cheer about. Hell R.I.D Prime has about 5 or 6 different phrases.

Animated figures like Magnus and Megatron etc.. get at least 3.

While I don't deny the complexity of the designs and how good they are at resembling their onscreen counterparts, its not something that's exclusive to the movies as I have mentioned above.

The Super Modes? Neither Movie Prime has a super mode on its own. ROTF Prime needs Jetfire and its not a good supermode. Jetfire just hangs of his back, and limits his leg movement due to how they combine. I'd say its one of the least useful super modes.

Cybertron Prime combines with his own trailer so no additional extremely expensive figure needed for that. He also combines with Wing Saber and with Leobraker, not just a bit of kibble, gets a true super mode, and not just a backpack of doom and doesn't loose articulation in the process in any combination. I'll admit his arms are a little stubby but they are just as articulated as the Movie's. Shoulders 360 degrees, out to the side, bicep swivel, elbow, and closing fingers just like 2007 Movie Prime.

I'm not saying the Movie Prime figures are bad, but they are in now way superior to Cybertron Prime's abilities.

Cybertron Prime also gets a removable matrix. Only the new Voyager Prime has brought that back.

Michael Bay has not done us a disservice. He is a guy who may be a little off his rocker, but we as TF fans, owe him. He has given Hasbro the ability to make lines of total fanwank. We now have had 3 lines dedicated to the fans, with a whole new continuity, that I didn't care for,, allegedly full of fanwank. Just people, shut up about Michael Bay. Didn't your mom tell you, “If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all”

I don't think he's done us a disservice. I also don't think we owe him anything. We already payed him to go watch his movies, and buy his toy designs. We also have the right to complain about them if we don't like them.

The fact is, we owe Bay nothing. We owe more to Hasbro for sticking with the brand all these years and yes giving us the fanwank lines that are Classics, Universe and Generations. They don't have to do it. They could simply make other toys, new characters, instead of updating old G1 designs for those of us that actually remember and appreciate them.

Overcracker wrote:They could simply make other toys, new characters, instead of updating old G1 designs for those of us that actually remember and appreciate them.

Actually I'd say it's easier to rehash old figures and reuse old names than come up with totally new designs. I'm not complaining though, if I think it's good I'll buy it, fanwank or not!

I don't know how much say Bay had in the character design but he's just a director, he didn't come up with the idea for the film, nor did he write the script. I'm looking forward to the third film more because the script writers are different - K and O scripts seem rather two dimensional to me, especially Star Trek. ANyway, TF films are classed as action. Action films seldom have really great, twisty plots.

TFs wasn't a dying franchise but the films have certainly given them a new lease of life and brought both in new young fans and long lost fans. Thank Bay for it? No. Nothing personal against him but it wasn't his idea!

I'm going to be perfectly blunt here.

I've read that before ... many times over recent years through the movie lovers -vs- movie haters discussions.

You dare disparage Cybertron Optimus Prime in any way whatsoever? That's like calling George Washington an asshole. We don't do that. It speaks ill of our character.

No sir.

I actually like the live action films and the toys. Since I account for 1/4th of the reading audience, I may as well oblige...

Stixx wrote:But in all truth, we owe Mr. Bay.

Nope, I paid to see the films, bought the films, and bought the toys. I even cheered for him and did the high five thing when he appeared at BotCon.

He gave new life to a dying franchise. Michael Bay revived this franchise.

Get your facts straight, the outlandishly good sales of Armada revived the franchise. The movies were very very important, they've made TFs into pop culture, but they would have never happened if Armada hadn't set the table so to speak.

If it were not for Bay, then where would we be. Where were we before the movie, Transformers Cybertron? How many people want to go back to that?

I do. TF Cybertron had the best toy designs of the past 10 years with the exception of Classics and SOME movie toys.

If it were not for Michael bay, Transformers would be dead. Long gone. The Convention exclusives would have died out. The Fiction, from what I remember, sucked. The animation did. I grew up in that era, so I know. I saw the range of Energon Ironhide's Facial Expressions. Transformers used to be packed into the last bit of shelf space, now they are reserved to be the best.

Incorrect, wrong, unlikely, kind of true, also kind of true, stop quoting what you read in the wiki, and wrong-a-mundo.

For the record, the last time TFs got limited shelf space was during RiD and only at WalMarts. TRU always had a lot of room for TFS, even during RiD.

Transformations have steadily gotten more complex. Toys are usually made, and the cartoon counterparts reflect the toy. Bay decided on the designs and the toys were made from those designs. The CGI models have tens of thousands of moving parts. Hasbro has stepped up to their game to bring us Movie accurate designs. Hasbro's level of engineering has gone astoundingly high.

Mostly true. Hasbro did a great job with new designs to capture the screen Transformers. Good point, now let’s avoid…

Let's compare 2 leaders, lets say Cybertron Optimus Prime and 2007 Movie Optimus Prime. Look at the articulation differences. Look at the complexity of transformation. Now compare Cybertron Optimus Prime with ROTF Optimus Prime. Look at the supermodes. One created with some kibble, the other from a fully transforming articulated leader class figure. Both Movie Primes have electronics in them. Cybertron Prime does not.

Blagh….let’s avoid that. If you knew better, which you don’t; you’d know that Cybertron Prime has as much or more articulation that RotF Prime. Cybertron Prime also has electronics and can combine with two other entire figures. Get your facts straight.

Also? Cybertron Prime can straighten his arms out entirely. RotF Prime can’t with his swords retracted.

I am tired of seeing the Bay Hatemail on the boards.

Um…where?

People want to see G1 remade with CGI and real Human Actors. Most don't seem to understand the fact that this has to appeal to everyone.

I think we get it.

I make movies. I know what it is like. People tell me all the time, to change this and that.

Where? What? IMDB reference please.

Michael Bay has not done us a disservice. He is a guy who may be a little off his rocker, but we as TF fans, owe him.

I don’t owe him ****. I might buy him a beer or 5 because he’s a cool guy, but I’ll do that standing and not on my knees thank you very much. I like the view I have.

Just people, shut up about Michael Bay. Didn't your mom tell you, “If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all”

My mom told me to never start a land war in Asia and to follow up every sucker-punch with a shot to the liver. As for nice things to say and saying nothing at all, maybe you should take your own advice.

Talking bad about Cybertron Optimus Prime…Turbo reving young punks…

CP beat me to it - pretty much everything he said

I think the Transformers movie got people into a long-standing franchise. It also got fans, that used to be into the franchise, back into it. It also got people buying toys, whether they had them before or not.

Michael Bay was not the reason for me getting back to it. The movie did. They could have hired anyone to direct the movie and I would have gone. And bought it on DVD. (I own the GI Joe movie, and that was crap.) I loved the franchise from my childhood. Not because of the director they found for the movie.

I started buying TF's when I heard about the movie, wandered into a toy aisle, and saw Classics Ramjet. That got me hooked on buying toys again. Yes, the movie led me there, but it wasn't a movie toy that caused the purchase.

I enjoy the movies due to the characters from the franchise. I like most of the decisions Bay made for the movies. Not all. But enough of them that I can say that he did a nice job with the franchise. I do not think we owe him anything, other than a "thanks for directing the Transformers movies".

Counterpunch wrote:
Talking bad about Cybertron Optimus Prime…Turbo reving young punks…

Heh, best part of the entire thread.

I guess Bay does get an unfair amount of the hate regarding these movies, it's really the writers who are at fault for the worst of it. I agree the live action films have thrust TFs more into the public spotlight than they have been in a very long time, but Bay is by no means the savior of our hobby. As was stated before, what happens to the franchise is all up to Hasbro and how well they deal with it.

Stixx wrote:Well, where shall I begin. I got back into collecting, back into transformers because of the movies. I personally love complex transformations, so I like the Bayformers in that respect.

The movies had a similar effect on me. I collected most of A/E/C, but stopped after that. I regret missing out on Universe (and to some respect, Classics), but the films definitely got me back into the full collecting mode. So I do agree with you in that regard.

But in all truth, we owe Mr. Bay. Micheal Bay did us a service. He gave new life to a dying franchise. Michael Bay revived this franchise. If it were not for Bay, then where would we be. Where were we before the movie, Transformers Cybertron? How many people want to go back to that? If it were not for Michael bay, Transformers would be dead. Long gone. The Convention exclusives would have died out. The Fiction, from what I remember, sucked. The animation did. I grew up in that era, so I know. I saw the range of Energon Ironhide's Facial Expressions. Transformers used to be packed into the last bit of shelf space, now they are reserved to be the best. Bay put Tfs back into the spotlight, and we owe him for that.

I never like using this phrase. Fans who vehemently oppose the films will never owe him anything, because for them, he's done nothing but ruin the franchise. For Die-Hard fans of the films, it's the exact opposite effect. I myself am somewhat in the middle. I love the films for what they are, but do have small issues with certain aspects of them. Not enough to claim that they've ruined things forever, but enough to make my viewing experience dependent upon my ability to forgo those issues. I think if we owe Bay anything, it's respect. And not the unwarranted, "I'm an adult so respect me" respect. I mean for what he undertook and dealt with. He had the guts to take the franchise in a radically different direction. What extent his involvement was is up to debate. But for what he did do, either in the director's chair, behind the camera, or in the editing room, he took a chance, and it paid off. It polarized fans, but it captured a mainstream audience that we haven't had before. My grandmother has seen the films. Do you think she even cares that Transformers: Prime is coming out? And the fact that these same irked fans decided death threats were the appropriate action to take also earns Bay my respect. That's something no film maker should have to deal with when making a movie about TOYS! I could see him receiving threats if he were trying to infiltrate a Taliban encampment and film terrorists in the flesh. THAT'S controversy. Not making a movie about toys that don't look like they did 20 years ago.

Transformations have steadily gotten more complex. Toys are usually made, and the cartoon counterparts reflect the toy. Bay decided on the designs and the toys were made from those designs. The CGI models have tens of thousands of moving parts. Hasbro has stepped up to their game to bring us Movie accurate designs. Hasbro's level of engineering has gone astoundingly high. Let's compare 2 leaders, lets say Cybertron Optimus Prime and 2007 Movie Optimus Prime. Look at the articulation differences. Look at the complexity of transformation. Now compare Cybertron Optimus Prime with ROTF Optimus Prime. Look at the supermodes. One created with some kibble, the other from a fully transforming articulated leader class figure. Both Movie Primes have electronics in them. Cybertron Prime does not.

While I do agree that the designs have been great, complex, and in turn have spawned very accurate toys, I don't think comparing the two Leaders in that way is accurate. Cybertron Prime's trailer makes lights and sounds, just no speech. And honestly, I don't really care for a toy that simply says "I am Optimus Prime" over and over and over and over again. Part of Cybertron Prime's appeal is his ability to combine with three separate components to create Super Modes: his trailer, Leobreaker, and Wing Saber. All three create a distinct mode for Prime to have. Movie Prime combining with Jetfire is great, but no where near as diverse as what Cybertron Prime has at his disposal. Both are great figures, though, so I don't think bashing one to increase the appeal of the other really does much good.

I am tired of seeing the Bay Hatemail on the boards. People want to see G1 remade with CGI and real Human Actors. Most don't seem to understand the fact that this has to appeal to everyone. It has to be eye catching. It has to pop. Apparently Most Fans think Michael bay is supposed to do exactly what they say. No. I make movies. I know what it is like. People tell me all the time, to change this and that. That is his vision of transformers. It is what he sees. We can't kill him for that. It is just like a fanfic, ahuge, multimillion dollar fanfic. You don't have to watch it. Period.

In my time here (which is only very recent) I haven't seen this level of vitriol for Bay. I know it exists, and am very aware of the capability fans have to appear like a group of raving lunatics. But I would say that the hate has died down some. That's not to say I think it's excusable, just that it's becoming less of an issue. And the same goes for the GEEWUNERS who hold that distinct stance against the films. I'm not saying all G1 fans are like that (I'm one of them), but there is a minority of GEEWUNERS that hold onto that aspect of the franchise almost religiously, to the point of seeming out of touch when they expect to simply see the 1986 movie with updated graphics. I respect their opinion on the matter, I just think that particular fringe group of fans has an all too rigid and archaic sense of expectations for the films.

Overall I think it was a good write up Stixx. And I tip my hat to you for bringing this up, because unlike previous weekly write ups lately, this one has the potential to devolve into a senseless flame war more so than the others, so kudos for still putting your ideas out there. Keep them coming.

I give you Super Mode Cybertron Optimus Prime:

Overcracker wrote:I give you Super Mode Cybertron Optimus Prime:

Yea...woah, uh...I'm really surprised that gallery never got fixed.

Cybertron Optimus's instructions were wrong and showed the backpack on upside down. He's not like that in the show or any supporting fiction.

This even gets corrected in the later gallery of the redeco (even showing the original done the right way:



Edit: I hate to be "that guy", but even that pic is slightly wrong. Prime's gun should be plugged into his right hand cannon and his black feet should be inclined 45 degrees down fitting snuggly into the combiner boots.

I don't hate Bay for the TF movies, although when I watched them I felt like my IQ would have dropped to chav levels if it hadn't been for watching something more intellectual afterwards.
The scriptwriter who thought it would be funny to have a mini robot humping a young woman's leg needs serious help, it wasn't funny and only served to show how low brow movies are becoming.

And then there's the human leads with the kind of lines clearly intended to make male teens and little boys giggle, terrible.
Yet the CGI in both movies is outstanding, the details, the designs - even if some of the designs are very odd and some are a case of blink and you miss it. And the films spent more time with the human characters than they did with the Transformers themselves, maybe should have renamed the movies - The Humans and their body talk with the sequel being 'Revenge Of The Teen Hormones'

But at least the CGI was and is beautiful.

The movies are alright for background noise, but I would hardly say that Bay did a truly good thing, aye the franchise is back in public attention, but the movies tend to make the real stars - the Transformers themselves - seem like second rate side kicks to a young male who can barely think and talk stright due to his constant state of arousal and also the US Military.

If the third movie has a better script and less 'oh look, it's innuedo' giggle moments, then maybe my feelings on the movies might change. Then again it might be exactly the same, like most movies these days.
The movies may have gotten Transformers back in the spotlight, but the taste is somewhat bitter.

Counterpunch wrote:

Overcracker wrote:I give you Super Mode Cybertron Optimus Prime:

Yea...woah, uh...I'm really surprised that gallery never got fixed.

Cybertron Optimus's instructions were wrong and showed the backpack on upside down. He's not like that in the show or any supporting fiction.

This even gets corrected in the later gallery of the redeco (even showing the original done the right way:



Edit: I hate to be "that guy", but even that pic is slightly wrong. Prime's gun should be plugged into his right hand cannon and his black feet should be inclined 45 degrees down fitting snuggly into the combiner boots.

True. But he still looks very cool. Though yeah the gallery should reflect the appropriate positions of the guns, and wings.

Thanks for responding. I wrote this up in about 15 minutes last night. I should have included a section blaming the writers, but hey. I wanted to make a discussion article, like the ones Blurrz and Mkall and CP have done. I want suggestions for future topics as well. I still have Cybertron Prime Counterpunch. He won't sell on my sales thread. He sucks. Period.

Stixx

Stixx wrote:I want suggestions for future topics as well. I still have Cybertron Prime Counterpunch. He won't sell on my sales thread. He sucks. Period.

Stixx

That's because you're trying to sell people a piece of crap:

Stixx wrote:Cybertron Leader Prime-Missing Panels on Side of Head, 1 missile, 1 clip in super mode broke and 1 is bent.-30

Even the Good-Golly-Glorious-Greatness that is Cybertron Optimus Prime is weakened by being...

broken

missing parts

deformed

and overpriced for an incomplete broken figure.

Take better care of your stuff if you want it to sell. A simple glance at eBay completed items shows that Cybertron Optimus Prime (leader) sells for around $60 give or take box, MIB, etc.

I do think people hate on Bay too much, I wouldn't say he saved the franchise but he hasn't taken the big smelly dump on it that some people claim he has.

Thanks guys for all of the comments. But seriously, no one has any ideas for a writeup? It takes me too long to decide. If you don't want to post it on here, then PM me it. Thanks again. CP, I grew up in cybertron, I grew up on A/E/C and I hate it. I loves me some complex transfermationers and Articulationers. Those dont got neither. There are a few molds that were good, but no. They were mostly bricks. I don't know the value of those CP. Sorry. You wanna give me a price revision?

Stixx

I don't usually agree with all of CP's points but Galaxyforce convoy is THE best modern take of Convoy in like 5 years. Proportional in form, lots of interactivity with other figs (well two figs anyway), got a face guard and mouth and well the last official "trailer like" accessory. What is not there not to like?

As for Bay, well I don't hate him, he didn't r@pe my childhood, the movies were fun (still prefer the 1986 over it though).

To it's credit, the movie made the franchise more accessible to the mainstream ( no longer is it a niche product) and I do hate the bugly face design.

Stixx wrote:Thanks guys for all of the comments. But seriously, no one has any ideas for a writeup? It takes me too long to decide. If you don't want to post it on here, then PM me it. Thanks again. CP, I grew up in cybertron, I grew up on A/E/C and I hate it. I loves me some complex transfermationers and Articulationers. Those dont got neither. There are a few molds that were good, but no. They were mostly bricks. I don't know the value of those CP. Sorry. You wanna give me a price revision?

Stixx

Keep writing. That's the challenge.

The most noble thing in the realm of public debate is to offer up ideas to the withering cross-fire of social inspection.

I may not agree with your opinions, but I respect you putting them up.

It is another one of those topics?

I understand how you feel,i hate when people bash the movie blindily.
Yes the movie have taken the franchise to a new level.
But doesnt mean the franchise was not forgotten.

IMO, Bay's primary credit is his crafting of kickass fight scenes, and his insistence in the designing of cool-looking TF's. His DVD commentary in the first film explains how he was dissatisfied with the initial sketches of the design team came up with. If you check out the bonus DVD in the ROTF exclusive set, you'll find that they sucked when compared to the final product.

That said, I'm no fan of the unicycle designs, and I hope there's won't be more of them in TF3.

To say that Bay is the savior of the TF franchise is somewhat of an overstatement. If I remember correctly, Hasbro came to Steven Spielberg (or was it Paramount?) with a proposal to make a live-action TF movie, and Spielberg offered Bay the project. Bay himself admitted to saying it was a "silly toy movie", and wasn't too thrilled about it.

As for his films, the biggest flaw I found with the first one was that Prime got his ass handed to him by Megs. Otherwise, the story was at least coherent and made sense, and the jokes was still very much under control.

ROTF, on the other hand, has only its cool fight scenes to stand on. The plot has too much happening at the same time, and inconsistencies were everywhere. No offense to Jetfire fans, but I just can't stomach an old-man bot acting like a buffoon on screen.

What I dislike the most in both films is how Bay kisses Army ass to the point of being ridiculous. Yes, it makes perfect sense that the US military would play a part in repelling a foreign invasion, even an alien invasion. What does NOT make sense is to have a paltry few tanks and Raptors take down a whole army of battle-hardened giant alien robots. It seems like the Decepticons all got their targeting systems damaged when they crashed onto Earth. Out of a hundred shots, maybe about five found their mark.

Stixx wrote:Well, I have not felt motivated, but have wanted to do this for a while. And then Blurrz Did It so here is my go at a write up. Will try to do one weekly'



Why should we love Bayformers?
Stixx

Well, I know most of you may have stopped at the title. Probably about half of the people who are reading this have nothing better to do. ¼ are reading it to destroy my points (Counterpunch) and another ¼ are reading it for various other reasons. Well, where shall I begin. I got back into collecting, back into transformers because of the movies. I personally love complex transformations, so I like the Bayformers in that respect. But in all truth, we owe Mr. Bay.

In all seriousness, I clicked on it because your name is similar to that TransFormer Staxx's.

Micheal Bay did us a service. He gave new life to a dying franchise. Michael Bay revived this franchise. If it were not for Bay, then where would we be. Where were we before the movie, Transformers Cybertron? How many people want to go back to that? If it were not for Michael bay, Transformers would be dead. Long gone. The Convention exclusives would have died out. The Fiction, from what I remember, sucked. The animation did. I grew up in that era, so I know. I saw the range of Energon Ironhide's Facial Expressions. Transformers used to be packed into the last bit of shelf space, now they are reserved to be the best. Bay put Tfs back into the spotlight, and we owe him for that.

Must agree, I only got back into TF because of the movies, I liked Cybertron a little(but I was 10 or so) but the Movies rekindled my interest.

Transformations have steadily gotten more complex. Toys are usually made, and the cartoon counterparts reflect the toy. Bay decided on the designs and the toys were made from those designs. The CGI models have tens of thousands of moving parts. Hasbro has stepped up to their game to bring us Movie accurate designs. Hasbro's level of engineering has gone astoundingly high. Let's compare 2 leaders, lets say Cybertron Optimus Prime and 2007 Movie Optimus Prime. Look at the articulation differences. Look at the complexity of transformation. Now compare Cybertron Optimus Prime with ROTF Optimus Prime. Look at the supermodes. One created with some kibble, the other from a fully transforming articulated leader class figure. Both Movie Primes have electronics in them. Cybertron Prime does not.

This was one of the things I liked more about the movie. The designs, I'm probably also the only one who likes both the designs AND the "Insect Faces." Or close to it, don't think I've seen anyone or very many here who do. The new aesthetic just looked overall better to me, for my brother it actually got to the point where it's the only aesthetic of TransFormers he likes.

I am tired of seeing the Bay Hatemail on the boards. People want to see G1 remade with CGI and real Human Actors. Most don't seem to understand the fact that this has to appeal to everyone. It has to be eye catching. It has to pop. Apparently Most Fans think Michael bay is supposed to do exactly what they say. No. I make movies. I know what it is like. People tell me all the time, to change this and that. That is his vision of transformers. It is what he sees. We can't kill him for that. It is just like a fanfic, ahuge, multimillion dollar fanfic. You don't have to watch it. Period.

I must agree, the problem with the G1 designs(to me) is that while they work in comics and cartoons, I don't feel they'd look right on the big screen. Too blocky and the human faces sort of don't fit.
Just my opinion but yeah anyways....

Michael Bay has not done us a disservice. He is a guy who may be a little off his rocker, but we as TF fans, owe him. He has given Hasbro the ability to make lines of total fanwank. We now have had 3 lines dedicated to the fans, with a whole new continuity, that I didn't care for,, allegedly full of fanwank. Just people, shut up about Michael Bay. Didn't your mom tell you, “If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say nothing at all”


Stixx

I never really got why people disliked him, I think I joined after most of the hate though so that may be why.

As far as the movies themselves, I have to say that without a doubt I liked the first one better. It seemed to grasp the wide feel better(which is odd since only a small group knew about the TransFormers) and I think the fact that the TransFormers were so unknown played a part in it. That's not to say it was the perfect movie, but it definitely wasn't bad.

ROTF seemed like they tried to move too fast...TOO FAST. It had GREAT fight scenes but then it just seems like they threw some things in there. For example, they don't change Megatron's name to Galvatron to spare the viewers confusion...but then they hardly introduce any of the Decepticons and have multiple Constructicons of the same look running around which to me was ALOT more confusing than Megatron's name. ROTF also had a bit more unneeded "humor" which bugged me but at the same time, seemed to have better graphics to me at least.

All in all, I loved the movies, if it were not for them I wouldn't be into TransFormers and wouldn't have gotten interested in other non-movie series.

Galaxyforce/Cybertron Prime had electronic gimmicks.