Takara Legends Manga Thread

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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Coptur » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:12 am

I do enjoy these continued Japanese stories but with all the mental gymnastics needed to read and understand them I always need to lay down afterwards lol


lol "New Beast Warriors"
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Big Grim » Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:43 am

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Gotta admit, was pleased to see Razorclaw there. If they every re-released that deco, I'd buy one in a shot!
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:31 pm

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So, basically, after decades of having no backstory, Dark Nova (who was the main big bad of 1991's Return of Convoy series, in which he was just a generically-evil Unicron-esque robotic alien who basically resembled a giant floating face with tentacles) is finally given both a backstory and a motivation for his being evil.

And what is this backstory that we learn about him? That he's one of the Vok from Beast Wars, and that he wishes to destroy the Autobots to prevent their descendants, the Maximals, from coming to exist in order to stop the Beast Wars from ever happening, so as to prevent the Beast Wars from interfering with the Vok's still very vague experiment that they were conducting on prehistoric Earth.

So, technically, from one way to look at this, Dark Nova is the living incarnation of "Trukk not Munky!" taken to the ultimate extreme. :P
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:36 pm

Yeah, i still dont know what the Vok were all about in beast wars
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:48 pm

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william-james88 wrote:Yeah, i still dont know what the Vok were all about in beast wars
Yeah that's one thing Bob and Larry didn't nail down in their "making it up as we go along" style of writing for Beast Wars. They made the aliens so enigmatic and ever-changing in their objectives that very little about the Vok made much sense at all when looking at the bigger picture.

I can only imagine how the Japanese dub even bothered to handle them, what with how that dub handled the rest of the Beast Wars cast.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Skritz » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:57 pm

Sabrblade wrote:So, basically, after decades of having no backstory, Dark Nova (who was the main big bad of 1991's Return of Convoy series, in which he was just a generically-evil Unicron-esque robotic alien who basically resembled a giant floating face with tentacles) is finally given both a backstory and a motivation for his being evil.

And what is this backstory that we learn about him? That he's one of the Vok from Beast Wars, and that he wishes to destroy the Autobots to prevent their descendants, the Maximals, from coming to exist in order to stop the Beast Wars from ever happening, so as to prevent the Beast Wars from interfering with the Vok's still very vague experiment that they were conducting on prehistoric Earth.

So, technically, from one way to look at this, Dark Nova is the living incarnation of "Trukk not Munky!" taken to the ultimate extreme. :P


It might be convoluted but at least its an actual backstory and one tied to all three major fragments of Generation 1 Cartoon Continuity: US Toon, JP Anime and Beast Wars. Not only that but Dark Nova's only identity was 'generic discount Unicron' who just sort of existed and was oh-so-mysterous because no one bothered to give him an origin. Now we know how to explain this because there is a precedent in BW for the Vok using the imagery of the chaos-bringer. Fanwanky explanation? Oh hell yes. But I find its a rather well thought-out and it connect two parts of the franchise you'd normally not expect to end up connect.

I gotta say I'm increasingly liking how the Legends Manga seem intent to connect all the dots but doesn't try to do with as much of a straight face as Aligned did as it engage in the absurd and the fawanky seemingly not from the stupid fan writer need to make sure everything fit so much as the sheer fun of taking together bits and pieces of lore and TF history that nobody would care about otherwise. :BOWDOWN:
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:57 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
william-james88 wrote:Yeah, i still dont know what the Vok were all about in beast wars
Yeah that's one thing Bob and Larry didn't nail down in their "making it up as we go along" style of writing for Beast Wars. They made the aliens so enigmatic and ever-changing in their objectives that very little about the Vok made much sense at all when looking at the bigger picture.

I can only imagine how the Japanese dub even bothered to handle them, what with how that dub handled the rest of the Beast Wars cast.

And yet, the show must have been a hit for them going all out on those MP figures.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:19 pm

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william-james88 wrote:And yet, the show must have been a hit for them going all out on those MP figures.
The first season was, at least.

Beast Wars Metals tanked in Japan, despite being given the same treatment as the first season. Whereas in the West, Seasons 2-3 are hailed as some of the best (if not the best) animated Transformers fiction of all time.



Skritz wrote:It might be convoluted but at least its an actual backstory and one tied to all three major fragments of Generation 1 Cartoon Continuity: US Toon, JP Anime and Beast Wars. Not only that but Dark Nova's only identity was 'generic discount Unicron' who just sort of existed and was oh-so-mysterous because no one bothered to give him an origin. Now we know how to explain this because there is a precedent in BW for the Vok using the imagery of the chaos-bringer. Fanwanky explanation? Oh hell yes. But I find its a rather well thought-out and it connect two parts of the franchise you'd normally not expect to end up connect.
Oh, I absolutely understand what Sakamoto was doing, here. My only issue with connecting Dark Nova to the Vok is that it doesn't feel like the kind origin that Dark Nova would have been given had he been given one back when he was created, as it relies entirely on a concept that wouldn't have existed for a good number of years later. As such, it kinda makes the idea of "Dark Nova's TRUE origin that he had all along" feel a bit disingenuous.

For a different example of Sakamoto giving a new origin to an old villain whose backstory was always vague, when he created Devil Z's origin, he mostly stuck to information that did exist at the time that Masterforce was being made, and ended up tying Devil Z into the both the Matrix of Leadership and the Quintessons in a way that felt both very plausible and fit seamlessly into the established G1 cartoon lore. The only things he added into this backstory from later series were things that didn't directly affect Devil Z's origin (Beast Machines's originally organic Cybertron) and things that came from a series that was from only two years after Masterforce and which was still building upon the same growing lore that Masterforce was a part of (the Zodiac from Zone).

By contrast, tying Dark Nova to the Vok, while a doable retcon that fits in a functional sense, felt more jarring like an idea that came from left field rather than from something rooted in the preset lore that the Return of Convoy fiction was building upon.

I'm not against the notion. I'm just pointing out how awkward it is in concept.

Skritz wrote:I gotta say I'm increasingly liking how the Legends Manga seem intent to connect all the dots but doesn't try to do with as much of a straight face as Aligned did as it engage in the absurd and the fawanky seemingly not from the stupid fan writer need to make sure everything fit so much as the sheer fun of taking together bits and pieces of lore and TF history that nobody would care about otherwise. :BOWDOWN:
It also helps that the pornographic "humor" pretty much died off after it had, er, ahem, peaked with Octane's pack-in comic.

However, I cannot agree with the notion that this manga isn't "trying to make everything fit", as it absolutely is doing exactly that, by placing numerous particular events into specific years set in and around other Japanese G1 fictions. The two Big Powered prologues alone show us flashbacks set during Return of Convoy, Train Wars, Beast Wars, the G1 cartoon, the G2 fiction, and more.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Lore Keeper » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:26 pm

william-james88 wrote:Yeah, i still dont know what the Vok were all about in beast wars

Even though the Vok were not given an origin in the show, they have been shown through 3H and IDW to be an evolution of the Swarm from the Generation 2 comic. This idea originated from Larry DiTillio, one of the show's writers. It's not an airtight origin, but it's the only official one they have (and frankly one I really like).
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:37 pm

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Lore Keeper wrote:
william-james88 wrote:Yeah, i still dont know what the Vok were all about in beast wars

Even though the Vok were not given an origin in the show, they have been shown through 3H and IDW to be an evolution of the Swarm from the Generation 2 comic. This idea originated from Larry DiTillio, one of the show's writers. It's not an airtight origin, but it's the only official one they have (and frankly one I really like).
I think he meant that he (and the rest of the fandom, to be honest) doesn't understand what the Vok's deal was in the show, as in what they were trying to do, exactly, with their so-vague-it's-not-as-important-as-we'd-like-to-think experiment with Earth.

Sure, there's behind-the-scenes ramblings from Bob and Larry about some of the ideas that they had for the Vok that they never got to put into the show, but... they never got to put those ideas in the show. So at the end of the day, the Vok were depicted in the show as merely an underdeveloped enigma.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Skritz » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:48 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
william-james88 wrote:And yet, the show must have been a hit for them going all out on those MP figures.
The first season was, at least.

Beast Wars Metals tanked in Japan, despite being given the same treatment as the first season. Whereas in the West, Seasons 2-3 are hailed as some of the best (if not the best) animated Transformers fiction of all time.


Make sense given season 1 was a more lighthearted, episodic experience whose weirdness and comedy was 'enhanced' by the comedic dubbing (and people complain about Carl Macek!). Didn't season 2 and 3 get dubbed so long after that Japan had made two lighthearted Beast Wars shows, Second and Neo, to fill in the gaps? This would certainly make the more continuity and drama-heavier remaining seasons look jarring.

Its so weird to think how different BW is to the Japanese side of Transformers fandom.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:05 pm

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Skritz wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
william-james88 wrote:And yet, the show must have been a hit for them going all out on those MP figures.
The first season was, at least.

Beast Wars Metals tanked in Japan, despite being given the same treatment as the first season. Whereas in the West, Seasons 2-3 are hailed as some of the best (if not the best) animated Transformers fiction of all time.


Make sense given season 1 was a more lighthearted, episodic experience whose weirdness and comedy was 'enhanced' by the comedic dubbing (and people complain about Carl Macek!). Didn't season 2 and 3 get dubbed so long after that Japan had made two lighthearted Beast Wars shows, Second and Neo, to fill in the gaps? This would certainly make the more continuity and drama-heavier remaining seasons look jarring.

Its so weird to think how different BW is to the Japanese side of Transformers fandom.
Yes, Metals was dubbed after Second and Neo were made, due to Takara opting to wait until Season 3 was done in the West so as to have enough episodes for a year's worth, since Season 2 by itself was too short to air for that long in Japan.

Though, while both Second and Neo were rather lighthearted, they did have their fair share of drama in them. For instance, Second gave us the family drama between Lio Convoy and Lio Junior, with the former being kind of a deadbeat dad to a son that he never wanted or even knew about, and couldn't afford to be a father when he already shouldered the heavy responsibility that comes with being a platoon commander fighting a constant war.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:53 pm

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And now we finally have high quality scans (courtesy of user Powered Convoy) and English summaries (courtesy of TFWiki) for the three pack-in manga chapters included in the Big Powered set.

Seeing as these are to be the final three pack-in manga chapters, they seem to bring the ongoing storyline very close to its conclusion, with the very last chapter likely coming from one more online chapter. But with these three, we get a basic resolution to the current Dark Nova story, and some unexpected turns like the origin of the Powered Masters and the seeming final death of G1 Cartoon Megatron.

Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX 1 Sonic Bomber Chapter
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With the revived Star Giant preparing to feast upon the Z Planet's Energon Z, the Decepticons call out to Megatron to no avail while the Autobots are unsure what to do, being hesitant to risk Megatron's life now that he's back to his senses. Sonic Bomber, however, ignores the deliberations and goes on the offensive together with Moonradar, as his top priority is to protect the planet he helped create and its people, including his daughter Sonic. He rams straight into the Star Giant's palm, but the attack has no effect and he is seemingly crushed by the giant, who proceeds to destroy the cities of the Z Planet with eye beams. However, he emerges unscathed with his transtector transformed into a Zone Mode, revealing that he's carrying a Zodiac of his own!

Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX 2 Roadfire Chapter
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Eons ago, the Zodiac spent all its power inducing the Big Bang and turned into a supermineral that was spread across the newly created universe. One fragment ended up within Earth, where it was detected by Professor Serikawa and unearthed by Dai Atlas, who kept it for the Autobots.

Zodiacs light up not only in the hands of Sonic Bomber but all across the Z Planet, and Dai Atlas reveals that the Powered Masters have since collected all fragments of the original, telling the Star Giant that if he wields the power to destroy, then they wield the power to create! While the wrecked planet is being restored by the Zodiacs, the Violen Jiger trio reminds the Powered Masters that they cannot wield the Zodiacs' true power without their old Powered Engines, something Roadfire is aware of as he vows to take the engines back from their stolen bodies. He combines with Topspin into Wing Powered and Dai Atlas with Twin Twist into Drill Powered, new forms that both catch Violen Jiger by surprise and let them borrow the power of the Jumpstarters' Powered Engines, making short work of Lenja in Sonic Bomber's body. They then transform into their Zone Mode bases and absorb the Zodiac power from the air, infusing it into Roadfire's Zone Powered Hammer which he uses to crush Igern.

Roadfire retrieves his Powered Engine from Igern's remains, splattering himself with energon in the process, prompting Topspin and Twin Twist to agree that while he's a nice guy, he's scary when he gets upset.

Legends Comic: Bonus Edition Vol. EX 3 Dai Atlas Chapter
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Image
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4 million years ago, Megatron creates Dai Atlas, Sonic Bomber, and Roadfire as the Poweredrons, a Decepticon unit equipped with unique engines that let them travel across the universe and develop other planets into energy-producing colony worlds. However, upon realizing Megatron is using the energy to conquer and terrorize the people of Cybertron, they abandon the Decepticons and steal their fleet of starships to evacuate the civilians to Paradron, a hidden world they secretly developed. When they return to Cybertron and join the Autobots as the renamed Powered Masters, Dai Atlas tells Optimus Prime of energy signs on the third planet of the Solar System, believing this energy can be used to destroy the Decepticons.

Dai Atlas's unforgiving attitude towards Decepticons hasn't changed to this day, announcing during his battle with Vion that he's opposed to reviving the Legends World if Megatron was the one who shaped it. Vion is pleased that Dai Atlas embraces the endless conflict, confirming the views of Smokescreen and Dreadwing as they watch from afar while Topspin and Twin Twist try to convince Roadfire that peace can be created in the Legends World. Roadfire silently leaves to join Sonic Bomber and Dai Atlas in forming Big Powered to clash with Vion, and even though Dai Atlas draws so much power from his partners' Powered Engines that it harms him, he pushes through and destroys his opponent. On the sidelines, Optimus Prime tells Cain and Akira of Dai Atlas's past as a Decepticon and that his obsession with destroying all evil is atonement for his own sins.

Having recovered his Powered Engine, Dai Atlas sets his sight on destroying Megatron himself, and when the other Decepticons interfere he attacks them as well. Topspin and Twin Twist try to stop their leader and tell him that the Legends World proved that Autobots and Decepticons can work together, only for Dai Atlas to cut their heads off and appropriate their transtectors to use as weapons, their Powered Engines being spares created for Dai Atlas to begin with. Crying out that he will never forgive Megatron for using him to hurt so many innocent people, he begins attacking the Star Giant in spite of pleas from Autobots and Decepticons alike and calls upon Sonic Bomber and Roadfire once more. The addition of the Jumpstarter bodies let them form Ultra Powered, only to discover that the Star Giant has ceased moving: knowing Dai Atlas needs to stay alive and revive the Legends World, Megatron is holding Dark Nova back!

While Dai Atlas is angered that Megatron won't fight back, Megatron requests that he be be killed before Dark Nova absorbs him completely. He tells the story of a deceased friend who sought peace only for Megatron to ignore his wish and wage more war after being consumed by grief and revenge, but since the Legends World was where Megatron finally succeeded in creating the world his friend had wanted, he implores Dai Atlas to rebuild it. The Powered Master proceeds to cut the Star Giant in half, destroying Dark Nova and Megatron, and when he returns to the planet's surface he announces that he will honor Megatron's wish.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Sat May 11, 2019 10:28 am

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Everyone, may I have your attention, please.


In anticipation of their long-awaited release of Beast Wars Neo in subtitled form (see here), Karyuudo Fansubs posted last night a full English translation of the Legends LG-EX pack-in manga that came with Blue Big Convoy.

This manga story serves as a bridging story that connects the end of Beast Wars Returns (Beast Machines) to both Beast Wars Second and Beast Wars Neo, with Page 1 taking place before Beast Wars Second and Page 2 leading into Beast Wars Neo.

While this story was posted in this thread previously with an English summary, this here is a full-blown English translation that makes things all the more easy to understand.

Click each pic to see full size.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< And, remember, this reads right-to-left. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Image
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"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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English Translation for Takara's Blue Big Convoy Manga Prepares Fans for Subtitled Beast Wars Neo

Postby william-james88 » Mon May 13, 2019 8:08 am

Fellow Seibertronian Sabrblade has made us aware of a translation for the manga that came packed with Legends LG-EX Blue Big Convoy. This is done by the same team behind the newly released Beast Wars Neo fansubs which can be found on youtube now.

Sabrblade wrote:Everyone, may I have your attention, please.
In anticipation of their long-awaited release of Beast Wars Neo in subtitled form (see here), Karyuudo Fansubs posted last night a full English translation of the Legends LG-EX pack-in manga that came with Blue Big Convoy.

This manga story serves as a bridging story that connects the end of Beast Wars Returns (Beast Machines) to both Beast Wars Second and Beast Wars Neo, with Page 1 taking place before Beast Wars Second and Page 2 leading into Beast Wars Neo.

While this story was posted in this thread previously with an English summary, this here is a full-blown English translation that makes things all the more easy to understand.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< And, remember, this reads right-to-left. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Big Grim » Mon May 13, 2019 10:35 am

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These translations are gratefully received. :)
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Lore Keeper » Mon May 13, 2019 12:51 pm

Is there a significance to Big Convoy inheriting his father's arm? Is it a reference to something?
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby karyuudo » Mon May 13, 2019 1:33 pm

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Not sure, but it could signify having a piece of his father with him at his side.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby karyuudo » Mon May 13, 2019 1:34 pm

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Big Grim wrote:These translations are gratefully received. :)


You're welcome! We felt that including this story with the release of Beast Wars Neo was important as it connects everything together.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon May 13, 2019 1:37 pm

Lore Keeper wrote:Is there a significance to Big Convoy inheriting his father's arm? Is it a reference to something?

It would explain why Big Convoy's arms were always asymetrical when the rest of his body was not.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Lore Keeper » Mon May 13, 2019 1:46 pm

william-james88 wrote:
Lore Keeper wrote:Is there a significance to Big Convoy inheriting his father's arm? Is it a reference to something?

It would explain why Big Convoy's arms were always asymetrical when the rest of his body was not.

Ya know, I think you nailed it. I never noticed just how asymmetrical his arms were before.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Mon May 13, 2019 5:20 pm

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Lore Keeper wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Lore Keeper wrote:Is there a significance to Big Convoy inheriting his father's arm? Is it a reference to something?

It would explain why Big Convoy's arms were always asymetrical when the rest of his body was not.

Ya know, I think you nailed it. I never noticed just how asymmetrical his arms were before.

I didn't even notice till last Thursday, it's strange that those are the only asymmetrical parts, usually the chest is asymmetrical if anything or at least an indication that the bot has some asymmetry
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Mon May 13, 2019 6:30 pm

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It's funny. If the Papa arm thing is meant to explain the asymmetry, then it's peculiar that Big Convoy is drawn with his arms obscured from view in the one panel he appears in that is set before he loses his arm. Meaning, we can't even see what he looked like before he lost his arm.
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Re: Takara Legends Manga Thread

Postby william-james88 » Mon May 13, 2019 6:30 pm

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:
Lore Keeper wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Lore Keeper wrote:Is there a significance to Big Convoy inheriting his father's arm? Is it a reference to something?

It would explain why Big Convoy's arms were always asymetrical when the rest of his body was not.

Ya know, I think you nailed it. I never noticed just how asymmetrical his arms were before.

I didn't even notice till last Thursday, it's strange that those are the only asymmetrical parts, usually the chest is asymmetrical if anything or at least an indication that the bot has some asymmetry

There is more subtle asymetry all across this figure (including the chest), I wrote about it when I included him in my top 5 shellformers list: https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... oys/33329/

But the arm is the most asymetrical part. Maybe a quick news piece on the revelation could be fun.
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