Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store
![Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "KING TOOTS Transformers BotBots Series 1 Toilet Troop 2018 Hasbro Toilet Paper"](https://www.seibertron.com/images/ebay/botbots/series-1/toilet-troop/king-toots/t-king-toots-002.jpg)
![Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "GRRR ILLA GRIMES Transformers BotBots Series 2 Shed Heads 2019 grease soap"](https://www.seibertron.com/images/ebay/botbots/series-2/shed-heads/grrr-illa-grimes/t-DSC05237.jpg)
Desslok2201 wrote:munkimus prime wrote:Maybe hasbro got rid of Scrappers Elbows because Scappers Elbows may loosen over time and then Devy won't be able to stand. Unless Scrappers arms clip together at the elbow for transformation.
I doubt it. They still use ball joints and they weaken over time. The thought that Scrapper might be mistransformed in all the Hasbro pics is the best theory I've heard yet, but I won't be surprised if he really just doesn't have elbows.
Wolfman Jake wrote:Billy-J is right, it's probably all down to cost. Hasbro has a price point with their "Titan Class" and it seems like, right now, it's at $149.99. That's what they figure people are willing to pay at general retail for a figure (or set) like Devastator in general. Takara Tomy doesn't constrain itself to rigid price-points like Hasbro, so they can have a lot of variance in paint apps and retooling in their figures, since each has an individual MSRP not based on a size class, but on the production cost for each particular figure. This said, it's a shame Hasbro didn't think to use the Takara version as the SDCC exclusive version. That would have made a LOT more sense, as the SDCC version is collector oriented and also carries a premium price, something adult collectors are largely prone to accept, especially when it means a superior product.
william-james88 wrote:Wolfman Jake wrote:Billy-J is right, it's probably all down to cost. Hasbro has a price point with their "Titan Class" and it seems like, right now, it's at $149.99. That's what they figure people are willing to pay at general retail for a figure (or set) like Devastator in general. Takara Tomy doesn't constrain itself to rigid price-points like Hasbro, so they can have a lot of variance in paint apps and retooling in their figures, since each has an individual MSRP not based on a size class, but on the production cost for each particular figure. This said, it's a shame Hasbro didn't think to use the Takara version as the SDCC exclusive version. That would have made a LOT more sense, as the SDCC version is collector oriented and also carries a premium price, something adult collectors are largely prone to accept, especially when it means a superior product.
Thanks for the support and I totally agree on the mistake in using the Hasbro mold for the SDCC version. Because now, there is much less need for that toy to exist aside from it just being a random exclusive. People have the Hasbro version if they want a more affordable devastator and the takara version if they want to most optimal offering of the figure (with guns, retractable visor improved paint apps and improved joints). The SDCC version doesnt serve that much purpose to collectors unless they want chrome, but we already heard their opinions on that when Hasbro's Jetfire was released
Oh and thanks for expanding on the price point deal between both companies. To anyone wondering, there are a bunch of precedents for this, the most recent/well known one is Prime Breakdown. He was between two scales and since he didnt fit well within a price point by Hasbro standards, they just didnt use him in their line.
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
megatronus wrote:I think you guys are forgetting the timing issue. Hasbro might have preferred to use Takara's retools, but those were literally just revealed this weekend. SDCC is just 3 weeks away. That most likely means SDCC Devastator has been off the production line for some time, and is either on a boat to the US from the factory or already state-side. I'm sure the time Takara takes to engineer the retools doesn't give Hasbro the wiggle room needed to pivot. Not at all.
megatronus wrote:I think you guys are forgetting the timing issue. Hasbro might have preferred to use Takara's retools, but those were literally just revealed this weekend. SDCC is just 3 weeks away. That likely means SDCC Devastator has been off the production line for some time, and is either on a boat to the US from the factory or already state-side. I'm sure the time Takara takes to engineer the retools doesn't give Hasbro the wiggle room they need to pivot. Not at all.
On price... we'll see. I don't think the price differential will be greater than Unite Warriors Defensor, who has a whole new mold rather than elbow fixes/guns.
william-james88 wrote:Wolfman Jake wrote:Billy-J is right, it's probably all down to cost. Hasbro has a price point with their "Titan Class" and it seems like, right now, it's at $149.99. That's what they figure people are willing to pay at general retail for a figure (or set) like Devastator in general. Takara Tomy doesn't constrain itself to rigid price-points like Hasbro, so they can have a lot of variance in paint apps and retooling in their figures, since each has an individual MSRP not based on a size class, but on the production cost for each particular figure. This said, it's a shame Hasbro didn't think to use the Takara version as the SDCC exclusive version. That would have made a LOT more sense, as the SDCC version is collector oriented and also carries a premium price, something adult collectors are largely prone to accept, especially when it means a superior product.
Thanks for the support and I totally agree on the mistake in using the Hasbro mold for the SDCC version. Because now, there is much less need for that toy to exist aside from it just being a random exclusive. People have the Hasbro version if they want a more affordable devastator and the takara version if they want to most optimal offering of the figure (with guns, retractable visor improved paint apps and improved joints). The SDCC version doesnt serve that much purpose to collectors unless they want chrome, but we already heard their opinions on that when Hasbro's Jetfire was released
Oh and thanks for expanding on the price point deal between both companies. To anyone wondering, there are a bunch of precedents for this, the most recent/well known one is Prime Breakdown. He was between two scales and since he didnt fit well within a price point by Hasbro standards, they just didnt use him in their line.
chuckdawg1999 wrote:I think since the Japanese TF market skews a little more toward the adult collector the changes were made to cater more towards their tastes.
Wolfman Jake wrote:Fenrir, this isn't so much about Hasbro bashing as understanding why different markets, served by essentially different companies, are getting different versions of what is 99% the same product. Hasbro has (self-imposed) price point restrictions to consider, as well as differing toy safety laws based on the markets they serve versus Takara Tomy. As for which Devastator came "first," I think we've all learned that the way HasTak operates over the past few years leans heavily towards "pretooling" instead of "retooling." When a new mold is made, they are also co-developing how to reuse as much as possible for another character or variation down the line. We don't know for sure without confirmation from the designers, but the way engineering like this usual works, is that you start with something MORE complex and then gradually simplify the design into the final product. It's much more likely that the design team made Devastator to the current specifications seen at the Tokyo Toy Fair reveal FIRST. Then Hasbro asked for some concessions to fit the production into their price point ($150.00 USD). The design team revised the design to fit Hasbro's needs, but went with their original work for Takara's market since they didn't have the same budgetary restraints. So, yes, the most likely explanation is that Devastator started life as the Takara version and then changes were made from there for Hasbro, meaning that Hasbro definitely had the time and option to pursue the Takara version for their SDCC exclusive, but for some reason decided NOT to go that route for their "premium" exclusive offering this year. Maybe it IS a matter of toy safety standards, or Hasbro just didn't think most buyers would notice or care. Without knowing the specifics, it's easy to see how the SDCC version seems more like a missed opportunity, knowing that it's aimed at a very different demographic (collectors) as compared to the mass retail release. I'm sure they're not going to have any trouble selling out all their Devastator stock later this year, regardless of the concessions their releases have made compared to the Takara Tomy version to be released later. The only people who really get pinched on this are the collectors (us) who will of course want the superior product and will have to shell out additional money to get it. Kids and parents buying for them won't care about a few missing elbow joints, guns, or a "shades optional" head sculpt. Again, I'm not bashing Hasbro, but helping people understand where these decisions come from and why they are made.
Burn wrote:While I have always supported the budget argument (along with the stability issues), there could also be a timing issue.
SDCC may be three weeks away, but Devastator is released in Australia this week.
william-james88 wrote:Congrats on that. Have you decided what you will do yet? Get him now and brag or wait for the Takara version?
Burn wrote:While I have always supported the budget argument (along with the stability issues), there could also be a timing issue.
SDCC may be three weeks away, but Devastator is released in Australia this week.
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Wouldn't be the first time joints were eliminated between prototype and final, look at RotF Leader Prime!
gavinfuzzy wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Wouldn't be the first time joints were eliminated between prototype and final, look at RotF Leader Prime!
Don't mean to sidetrack but this seemed like an interesting point. Was not aware of the prototype ROTF leader prime. What parts were changed?
Burn wrote:('cause honestly, if I could manage to snag the SDCC I really would go for all three modes on display)
Universe Hot Shot is another case similar to this, since the Takara version came with a pair of exhaust guns that could attach to the underside of the car's rear, fitting into a cut away slot in the plastic, whereas the Hasbro version not only lacked the guns but also lacked the open slot in the car rear's underside.JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:gavinfuzzy wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Wouldn't be the first time joints were eliminated between prototype and final, look at RotF Leader Prime!
Don't mean to sidetrack but this seemed like an interesting point. Was not aware of the prototype ROTF leader prime. What parts were changed?
The hands were supposed to have individually articulated fingers, like the current APS-01U one (the one with both Striker and Jetwing parts). Other figures of around the same time suffered the same fate of simplified designs, most notably Sideways, Rampage and Starscream. All because they were slightly over budget in a financial crunch.
If there's a cheaper route for a design, that doesn't compromise anything or can be worked around, Hasbro will take it.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
william-james88 wrote:Burn wrote:('cause honestly, if I could manage to snag the SDCC I really would go for all three modes on display)
Wow, you are quite fond of this guy then. Thats awesome, I am glad Hasbro and Takara made something you are super fond of. And now you have me curious, if you could get all three versions, which would you have in which mode. I am assuming SDCC for combined, Hasbro for vehicle and Takara for individual robots
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:gavinfuzzy wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Wouldn't be the first time joints were eliminated between prototype and final, look at RotF Leader Prime!
Don't mean to sidetrack but this seemed like an interesting point. Was not aware of the prototype ROTF leader prime. What parts were changed?
The hands were supposed to have individually articulated fingers, like the current APS-01U one (the one with both Striker and Jetwing parts). Other figures of around the same time suffered the same fate of simplified designs, most notably Sideways, Rampage and Starscream. All because they were slightly over budget in a financial crunch.
If there's a cheaper route for a design, that doesn't compromise anything or can be worked around, Hasbro will take it.
Robogeek1973 wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:gavinfuzzy wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Wouldn't be the first time joints were eliminated between prototype and final, look at RotF Leader Prime!
Don't mean to sidetrack but this seemed like an interesting point. Was not aware of the prototype ROTF leader prime. What parts were changed?
The hands were supposed to have individually articulated fingers, like the current APS-01U one (the one with both Striker and Jetwing parts). Other figures of around the same time suffered the same fate of simplified designs, most notably Sideways, Rampage and Starscream. All because they were slightly over budget in a financial crunch.
If there's a cheaper route for a design, that doesn't compromise anything or can be worked around, Hasbro will take it.
Wasn't ROTF Leader Prime also supposed to have the gas tank gun like the TakTom version did?
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Robogeek1973 wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:gavinfuzzy wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Wouldn't be the first time joints were eliminated between prototype and final, look at RotF Leader Prime!
Don't mean to sidetrack but this seemed like an interesting point. Was not aware of the prototype ROTF leader prime. What parts were changed?
The hands were supposed to have individually articulated fingers, like the current APS-01U one (the one with both Striker and Jetwing parts). Other figures of around the same time suffered the same fate of simplified designs, most notably Sideways, Rampage and Starscream. All because they were slightly over budget in a financial crunch.
If there's a cheaper route for a design, that doesn't compromise anything or can be worked around, Hasbro will take it.
Wasn't ROTF Leader Prime also supposed to have the gas tank gun like the TakTom version did?
Nope, that was a later addition by TakaraTomy. Japan initially got the same versions the rest of the world got, but it would get unique retools further down, like Buster Optimus Prime.
Burn wrote:william-james88 wrote:Burn wrote:('cause honestly, if I could manage to snag the SDCC I really would go for all three modes on display)
Wow, you are quite fond of this guy then. Thats awesome, I am glad Hasbro and Takara made something you are super fond of. And now you have me curious, if you could get all three versions, which would you have in which mode. I am assuming SDCC for combined, Hasbro for vehicle and Takara for individual robots
Yep.
Return to Transformers Toys Discussion
Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], MSN [Bot], MSNbot Media, Starseeker