The Energon Pub

Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:46 pm

This maybe a bit outdated, with Darkest Hour being out and all. But just in case someone haven't started this thread yet, if you were Megatron, who would you have spared in "Regeneration" given you must choose one?

Save Starscream? Or keep Dreadwing?

News Credits: 15 · Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:09 pm

I think under the circumstances, killing Dreadwing was a good idea. First of all, Dreadwing gave the Autobots the Forge. Next, he attacks two of Megatron's key members and disobeys Megatron's orders to stand down.

Whether he knew that Dreadwing took the Forge or not is a moot point. If you straight-up disobey Megatron's strict orders, then it was nice knowing you.

News Credits: 462 · Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:09 am

Starscream was being cooperative and remained loyal even after they lost the Omega Lock. Plus, while Dreadwing was more loyal, he had a track record of constant failures. Starscream at least knew how to do things and get them done back when he served Megatron.

Dreadwing defied Megatron after two warnings, right when Megatron was pressing for a united Decepticon front. Even though he had been devotedly loyal up until that point, killing him set an example for Starscream that if Megatron was openly willing to kill even his own most loyal servant, Starscream likely realized that he would suffer an even worse fate if he ever stepped out of line again.

Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:10 am

Accepting Starscream back into the ranks doesn't seem very sensible at all. He'd need a lot of therapy there wasn't time for to cure his rampant insecurities to minimise the risk of him trying to backstab anyone yet again. That he went with the keys to people who would gladly execute him was pretty bad writing.

PrymeStriker wrote:First of all, Dreadwing gave the Autobots the Forge.

Because Starscream was let back in. I'm not sure if anyone even knew that he did that, anyway.

News Credits: 15 · Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:21 am

Handels-Messerschmitt wrote:
PrymeStriker wrote:First of all, Dreadwing gave the Autobots the Forge.

Because Starscream was let back in. I'm not sure if anyone even knew that he did that, anyway.

Did you even read my second paragraph?

PrymeStriker wrote:Whether he knew that Dreadwing took the Forge or not is a moot point. If you straight-up disobey Megatron's strict orders, then it was nice knowing you.

Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:46 am

Actually, I like idea of Megatron knows about Starscream something no one else- even Scream itself knows. Maybe he need Starscream for something later.

Also, it easier for Megatron to get a new Bruiser than new Brainiac. Strenght and fight abilities of Dreadwing are'nt that speacial, he simply can call for another big guy.

Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:01 pm

Sabrblade wrote: Plus, while Dreadwing was more loyal, he had a track record of constant failures.

That IS true. Other than Dreadwing killing Seaspray offscreen, he did failed a lot. Fail to destroy Airachnid, failed to retreive Breakdown's remains, failed to retreive both Apex Armor and the Omega Key.

Starscream's track record's not that good either, but then again obtaining all four Omega Keys is kinda a big accomplishment there. I guess Megatron in the end, was impressed with Starscream's accomplishment given he had limited resources, with the absence of his T Cog, he still managed to make use of those limited resources to the fullest, and obtained the four keys. Picture what Starscream could accomplish with the resources of the Decepticon army.

Still, kinda harsh decision being made to kill Dreadwing. With Breakdown dead, and Airachnid going rogue and in stasis, Dreadwing is the only competent fighter left(other than Soundwave). Knockout and Starscream, are not quite competent, not that they're not strong, they're just not dedicated enough to finish a fight and might retreat from battle when things goes south.

Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:07 pm

zwann wrote:That IS true. Other than Dreadwing killing Seaspray offscreen, he did failed a lot. Fail to destroy Airachnid, failed to retreive Breakdown's remains, failed to retreive both Apex Armor and the Omega Key.

Don't forget about another Dreadwing succes, he save Megatron's life once. And that one meens a lot.

Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:39 pm

PrymeStriker wrote:Did you even read my second paragraph?

Starscream has repeatedly tried to subvert Megatron and even tried to kill him. Giving up someone who has proven loyal for someone who has wanted your spot for a long time isn't the most sensible thing to do, especially when you've already got all you want out of them. Starscream was pretty obviously kept in the show because they plan more toys of him.

News Credits: 462 · Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:10 pm

TurboMMaster wrote:
zwann wrote:That IS true. Other than Dreadwing killing Seaspray offscreen, he did failed a lot. Fail to destroy Airachnid, failed to retreive Breakdown's remains, failed to retreive both Apex Armor and the Omega Key.
Don't forget about another Dreadwing succes, he save Megatron's life once. And that one meens a lot.

That wasn't a victory. That was a truce. A draw. Both sides put down their weapons to let Megatron walk away freely.

News Credits: 15 · Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:29 pm

Handels-Messerschmitt wrote:
PrymeStriker wrote:Did you even read my second paragraph?

Starscream has repeatedly tried to subvert Megatron and even tried to kill him. Giving up someone who has proven loyal for someone who has wanted your spot for a long time isn't the most sensible thing to do, especially when you've already got all you want out of them. Starscream was pretty obviously kept in the show because they plan more toys of him.

Starscream supplied Megatron with all four Omega Keys. It's because of him that the Decepticons have the Fortress of New Kaon and destroyed Autobot HQ. Starscream is the reason they won.

Dreadwing was going to leave the Decepticons if Megatron hadn't killed him. No matter how loyal Dreadwing was, he failed Megatron multiple times and ignored his orders twice.

Also, you're quoting me and then trailing off from what I was even talking about. :-|

Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:45 pm

Between Dreadwing and starscream, Megs has been looking for a reason to off Dreadwing for a while. He knows the only reason that dreadwing is loyal is so he can get his revenge on his brothers killer. Why do you think megs let dreadwing see screamers thoughts, He knew what starscream had been up to, I mean heck soundwave sees all. It was a way to upset Dreadwing to a point where he would have a reason to kill him, and to make Screamer his lap dog. I do not think Screamer can betray megatron now.

News Credits: 462 · Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:24 pm

ebilly99 wrote:Between Dreadwing and starscream, Megs has been looking for a reason to off Dreadwing for a while. He knows the only reason that dreadwing is loyal is so he can get his revenge on his brothers killer. Why do you think megs let dreadwing see screamers thoughts, He knew what starscream had been up to, I mean heck soundwave sees all. It was a way to upset Dreadwing to a point where he would have a reason to kill him, and to make Screamer his lap dog. I do not think Screamer can betray megatron now.

he didn't "let" Dreadwing watch the imagery. Dreadwing wasn't even in the room until he came in to check on Knock Out just as Knock Out was going to pull the plug on Megatron. Dreadwing just happen to take a look at the video screen and decide to keep watching.

Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:52 pm

PrymeStriker wrote:Dreadwing was going to leave the Decepticons if Megatron hadn't killed him. No matter how loyal Dreadwing was, he failed Megatron multiple times and ignored his orders twice.

Merely ignoring orders doesn't really operate in the same weight class as assassination and conspiracy to overtake the leadership. Not like there are a lot of decepticons who haven't failed a mission somehow, anyway.

News Credits: 15 · Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:14 pm

Handels-Messerschmitt wrote:Not like there are a lot of decepticons who haven't failed a mission somehow, anyway.

I'm not saying Dreadwing has failed a mission once before, but Dreadwing has never succeeded. To prove my point, I'm going to list his failures:

1. Loose Cannons - No real "mission," but still didn't extinguish Optimus Prime, let-alone Wheeljack or Bulkhead
2. Crossfire - Failed to kill of Airachnid, costing the Decepticons the loss of Breakdown
3. Triangulation - Lost the Apex Armor to Starscream
4. Triage - No mission, but Megatron finds out about his failure
5. Alpha/Omega - Does nothing but open the tomb of a Prime
6. Hard Knocks - Gets his ass handed to him by Bulkhead and loses the Omega Key to Starscream
7. Regeneration - Killed. Side note: gave Autobots the Forge.

The only other times he made appearances was in Flying Mind, Hurt, Legacy, Inside Job, and Patch, but he did nothing important in those episodes. So, where are his victories?

Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:21 pm

So, Dreadwing failed a lot, except for once saving Megatron's life. But really, all his cons fail him over and over or try to kill him, except Soundwave.

So what does Megatron value more, loyalty, or success? ...or, control-ability? Knockout lives because he is needed. Starscream failed in dramatic fashion over and over, but still offers something that your garden-variety Breakdown or Dreadwing wouldn't. One could even argue that his success in threatening/pestering Megatron (clones nearly killing him, stealing the Apex Armor, nevermind the keys), plus the insight Megatron gained from the patch, had Megatron committed to Starscream.

He didn't kill Dreadwing for being disloyal or a failure or even for being disruptive, he killed him because he couldn't coexist with Starscream.

News Credits: 15 · Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:19 pm

DarkEnergon wrote:He didn't kill Dreadwing for being disloyal or a failure or even for being disruptive, he killed him because he couldn't coexist with Starscream.

Megatron told Dreadwing that his cooperation was essential, despite the difficulty of Starscream joining the Decepticon ranks again. He didn't kill him because Dreadwing couldn't flat out coexist with Starscream, but because he learned that he couldn't through this act.

You're honestly going to ignore Dreadwing's disobedience anyway? Megatron values obedience in his ranks, along with success, and Dreadwing proved that he couldn't coincide with either at that point.

Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:29 pm

PrymeStriker wrote:
DarkEnergon wrote:He didn't kill Dreadwing for being disloyal or a failure or even for being disruptive, he killed him because he couldn't coexist with Starscream.

Megatron told Dreadwing that his cooperation was essential, despite the difficulty of Starscream joining the Decepticon ranks again. He didn't kill him because Dreadwing couldn't flat out coexist with Starscream, but because he learned that he couldn't through this act.

You're honestly going to ignore Dreadwing's disobedience anyway? Megatron values obedience in his ranks, along with success, and Dreadwing proved that he couldn't coincide with either at that point.

Dreadwing's disobedience forced Megatron to take action, but did he terminate Dreadwing because of that, or because he'd rather have Starscream?

Maybe he only killed him to save Starscream, not simply because he thought Dreadwing deserved death for something could be seen as the last straw.

Maybe he only killed him because he decided this Dreadwing + Starscream thing just wasn't going to work out.

Maybe he *was* furious that Dreadwing openly defied him, and that's why. But Dreadwing disobeyed him when he saved Megatron, and was told he'd make a fine second-in-command. Other decepticons have failed and disobeyed left and right and lived to tell about it.

I think someone like Megatron could easily let the two foes battle it out and see that stronger one gets to stand by his side. when Megatron ordered him to stand down, he was committing to Starscream - he wanted Dreadwing to prove he could coexist with him, and when he proved otherwise, Megatron saved the weaker fighter, but stronger strategist.

Actually, I'm not sure if we're agreeing and I'm just poorly articulating my point. Basically, I don't think Megatron kills Dreadwing outright unless unless he has to to keep Starscream.

News Credits: 15 · Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:02 pm

DarkEnergon wrote:Actually, I'm not sure if we're agreeing and I'm just poorly articulating my point. Basically, I don't think Megatron kills Dreadwing outright unless unless he has to to keep Starscream.

Well, of course. That's what Megatron said. Starscream had all four Omega Keys. If Megatron said "No deal" to Starscream, even if he didn't know what the keys do, Megatron would be out of luck and missing the chance to revitalize Cybertron. Henceforth, Starscream was a more important ally than Dreadwing.

Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:08 am

dreadwing - starscream is more likely to kill me later better to nip that one -but then again im not a raging loon like this megatron so his choice is less rational

News Credits: 10 · Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:04 am

Megatron clearly stated that after Starscream left the Decepticon ranks infighting nearly destroyed them and that they needed to operate as a united front. He also stated that he needed SS by his side instead of against the Decepticons and that loyalty had become a major requirement in recent times.

Starscream doesn't always win, but he is VERY useful, as proven at the end of Regeneration when the kids are used to 'trade' for the Omega Keys.

Dreadwing was defying Megatron's order to end the dissension and act as a team AND he was trying to kill the best lieutenant Megs ever had.