The Energon Pub

I'm thinking a topic like this should of been started a long time ago. Over the years the names for different toy sizes have changed while the sizes themselfs have not.

I think the one that has stayed consistant threwout the years is the Delux Class figures which makes sence to me because Delux seems to be the ideal play scale. Meaning that they're big enough to alow for detail and articulation but small enough for a child to easily play with. The "mega" best era or "voyager" class figures are fairly good for this as well but are harder to come by on a budget.

So basically what I'm trying to do here is make a list of how the names have changed over the years. Or I guess it's a chart, I'll list the series at the top and the sizes I know below them and what I want you to do is fill in the blanks.

Now I'd allso like to point out at this time that some toy lines have skipped on some toy sizes such as the best erra not haveing anything smaller than a basic and I'm not sure if every toy line has an equivilant of the supreme class figures which were rather rare.

And with that said, some toy lines like "Alternators" in which every toy in the line is the same size I don't think actully have size casses so insted the entire toy line can just be grouped with the rest of the size classes closest to it.

The reason for making this, to be honest, is because I'm allmost completly out of touch with what the size classes are anymore. I've still been going by size classes that I don't think have been used sence Beast Machines and am only just now starting to familiarize myself with the new size classes.

Pluse sence I don't remember G1 too much was wandering if anyone knows the size classes for it?

OK going to seperate this into two different lists. One will be for show lines, the other for all the other misc. toy lines.

Generation 1 - Beast - R.I.D. - Armada/Energon/Cybertron - Bayverse - Animated

??????????? - N/A - Spychanger - Minicon - Legend - ????????

?????????? - Basic - Basic - Basic - Scout - Scout

Delux - Delux - Delux - Delux - Delux - Delux

?????????? - Mega - Mega - Mega - Voyager - Voyager

?????????? - Ultra - Ultra - Ultra - Leader - Leader

????????? - Supreme - ?????? - Supreme - Supreme - N/A

I think we'll do this one step at a time. Fill in the blanks and make corrections here and then do the rest of the toy lines. BTW these allso includeing the Japanese toy lines and sub lines such as Beast Machines Dinobots and Grand Maximus from Car Robots which is why R.I.D. doesn't have an N/A for the supreme section.

So did I forget or misslable anything?

It's 'Deluxe'.

Armada scales, in order were Supercon, Maxcon, Gigacon, Super and Supreme

Energon scales - Combat, Mega, Command, Leaders and Supreme

Rial Vestro wrote:
Generation 1 - Beast - R.I.D. - Armada/Energon/Cybertron - Bayverse - Animated

??????????? - N/A - Spychanger - Minicon - Legend - ????????

?????????? - Basic - Basic - Basic - Scout - Scout

Delux - Delux - Delux - Delux - Delux - Delux

?????????? - Mega - Mega - Mega - Voyager - Voyager

?????????? - Ultra - Ultra - Ultra - Leader - Leader

????????? - Supreme - ?????? - Supreme - Supreme - N/A

Minicons are smaller than Legends. I've never bought minicons so I don't know if they're a different cost though.

Ultra class (£25) was reintroduced in Classics 2 and is smaller than Leader (£40 -£45).

Mykltron wrote:Minicons are smaller than Legends. I've never bought minicons so I don't know if they're a different cost though.

No they're not. Some of the Legends figures are actully just repaits of some Mini-cons so how can they be smaller?

Ultra class (£25) was reintroduced in Classics 2 and is smaller than Leader (£40 -£45).

That's not technically true either. Looking at my Megatron Shelf Leader Movie Megatron (2007) is actully shorter than Energon Megatron. Allthough I'm not quite sure what the size class is for Energon Megs. He is taller than 2007 movie Megs but shorter than ROTF Megs and both movie Megatrons are leader figures.

It's allso hard to tell when they're not right next to eachother but it looks like 2007 and TM2 Megs are about the same hight and I know TM2 is an Ultra class.

Of course with any class size, the actual toy size will verry depending on a number of different things. I'm sure we all remember that a remold of TM Megatron who was originally a Mega Class for Beast Wars was sold as part of the Armada toy line again as a Mega despite the fact that he's actully smaller than Armada Megas.

Beast Wars/Machines is the one toy line I'm familiar with and looking at my shelf there are 2 Deluxe figures, 3 Mega Figures, and 4 Ultra figures. And that's not even all of my toys from the best era, that's just Primal and Megatron. But out of thoughs figures Beast Machines Megatron actully looks too small to be a Mega as he's about the same size as the 2 Deluxe figures. BM Megatron was packaged in beast mode and the wing span would not fit in Deluxe packageing but they could of sold him as a delux by packageing him in robot mode though he might not of sold as well because it look like crap. Dragons sell better than Harnessmen. And the original Primal and BW Megs are actully right between sizes with the Mega class TM versions and Ultra Class TM2 versions.

It's kinda hard to go by prices either sence that changes more than the names do.

At any rate, Mini-cons and Legends are both fairly cheap though Legends might cost more because of the ones I've seen, they're in packs of like 6 or so while Mini-cons were sold in packs of only 3. Spychangers which are roughly the same size were sold individualy. The more tiny crap figures they can shouve in the same package the more the price goes up.

Legends Devistator which will probly be in roughly the same size packageing as an ultra or a Mega depending on if he's packaged in the combined form or not and will probly be the same price as whatever the packageing size is.

The $100 Devistator with is way too much for that figure is roughly in the same size class as figures like Supreme Cheetor and Jetstorm, Unicron, Omega Supreme, and Primus which are all much better and cheaper figures. I think Devistator's price came about by putting his individual parts into their own size classes and added the prices up for them.

Figures like any of the G1 Cityformers from what I've seen are definatly too big to be considered Supremes which is the biggest size for modern toys. One of the reviews I saw, can't remember if it was Metroplex or Fortress Maximus but the guy was transforming him on camera and the toy just dwarfed this guy who was a full grown adult. I don't know how kids could have transformed that massive giant. I should try to find that again.

Rial Vestro wrote:No they're not. Some of the Legends figures are actully just repaits of some Mini-cons so how can they be smaller?

What? No. Where? Which ones?
Take a Mini-Con (I'm using Armada Spiral, a rather tall Mini-Con), now take a Legends class figure (I'm using LoC Jetfire, a rather short Legends class) Jetty's still got some height on Spiral.Mini-Cons are smaller, no two ways about it.

Also, to clarify everything:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_class
Everything you could ever need to know about size classes, what's changed, what's vanished, everything.

Minicons ARE smaller than legends, and AFAIK there have been no minicons repainted as of lately, for any of the new lines. and none have been passed off as legends class figures.

Also minicons are hard to gauge the cost of since they are almost never packaged alone. Last time we saw minicons was in the Classics in 3 packs.

The height of a figure has nothing to do with its size class, its the amount of materials used that counts. Take Animated Lockdown he's a deluxe and is almost as tall as a leader.

That's not technically true either. Looking at my Megatron Shelf Leader Movie Megatron (2007) is actully shorter than Energon Megatron. Allthough I'm not quite sure what the size class is for Energon Megs. He is taller than 2007 movie Megs but shorter than ROTF Megs and both movie Megatrons are leader figures.

That depends on which Energon Megs you have. There where 2 in different size classes. A Leader Class, and a Voyager class. But again height does not determine class.

Technically speaking ultra class figures are smaller, or have less material than leader class figures.

The order is normally as follows:

Mincons
Legends
Scouts
Deluxes
Voyagers
Ultras
Leader
Supreme

Overcracker wrote:Also minicons are hard to gauge the cost of since they are almost never packaged alone. Last time we saw minicons was in the Classics in 3 packs.

The Classics Mini-cons were sold as Legends Maybe the movie legends figures are bigger but Mini-cons have been sold as Legends.

Both Mini-cons and Legends appear to have basic transformations and articulation. It's preddy rare to find figures in this class with decent articulation.

Bascially they're actully closer to the same class than TM Megatron and any of the Armada Megas which we know are the same class because TM Megatron was sold as an Armada Mega despite being a great deal smaller than the rest of the Megas in the same toy line.

That's not technically true either. Looking at my Megatron Shelf Leader Movie Megatron (2007) is actully shorter than Energon Megatron. Allthough I'm not quite sure what the size class is for Energon Megs. He is taller than 2007 movie Megs but shorter than ROTF Megs and both movie Megatrons are leader figures.

That depends on which Energon Megs you have. There where 2 in different size classes. A Leader Class, and a Voyager class. But again height does not determine class.

I thought he came as a Voyager and a Deluxe? Which class was relised first because I never saw any later relises of the Energon Megatron figures, includeing repaints. Whatever one came out first is most likely the one I have.

Mincons
Legends
Scouts
Deluxes
Voyagers
Ultras
Leader
Supreme

What about the G1 cities? I think they're too big to be considered Supreme and nothing sence then has been that big.

Rial Vestro wrote:What about the G1 cities? I think they're too big to be considered Supreme and nothing sence then has been that big.

I don't have him anymore for a size-by-size comparison, but IIRC height-wise G1 Omega Sentinel, Metroplex and Scorpinok were shorter than Energon Omega Supreme, however they had about the same mass I think so Supreme sounds like a good classification for them.

For Max and Overlord though are in classes of their own. I'd call the uber-class

Rial Vestro wrote:

Overcracker wrote:Also minicons are hard to gauge the cost of since they are almost never packaged alone. Last time we saw minicons was in the Classics in 3 packs.

The Classics Mini-cons were sold as Legends Maybe the movie legends figures are bigger but Mini-cons have been sold as Legends.

Sorry, but Overcracker is 100% correct. There are absolutley no Minicons that have been sold at a "Legends" price point. Legends are larger (maybe 20-30% more mass). Minicons explicitly have a powerlinx port (round hole with a central peg).

Samsonator wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:No they're not. Some of the Legends figures are actully just repaits of some Mini-cons so how can they be smaller?

What? No. Where? Which ones?
Take a Mini-Con (I'm using Armada Spiral, a rather tall Mini-Con), now take a Legends class figure (I'm using LoC Jetfire, a rather short Legends class) Jetty's still got some height on Spiral.Mini-Cons are smaller, no two ways about it.

Also, to clarify everything:
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_class
Everything you could ever need to know about size classes, what's changed, what's vanished, everything.

Have you noticed that size chart has Legends listed as 2 different classes and Mini-cons listed with Basics. There's allso 2 different basic classes.

All of the Mega Class figures from Armada to present day are listed in with beast era Ultras.

There's a "Super" class listed which never even exsisted.

Leaders are marked in with Beast Era Supremes. Which were much larger.

Alot of this could be due to the fact that they're listing by price not by size class but some of the prices aren't even right as it doesn't show the cost of Deluxes as ever changeing despite the fact I use to get Deluxe class figures for about $5 - $7 and now are $12.99 ($12.99 I just copied directly from hasbros web site.)

It seems to be really difficult to judge what the class sizes are because actual toy size, price, and even packageing keeps changeing.

Again going to use this as an example. TM Megatron when it first came out was cheaper and in smaller packageing than Armada Predacon who was more exspencive do to price inflation over time and was dwarfed by every other figure of the same class in the Armada toy line and dwarfed by his own box. I think there was enough room in Armada Predacon's packageing to sell a Deluxe figure along with him and still have room left over for 2 Mini-cons. I'm looking at TM and Armada Megatron right now and TM Megatron is freaking tiny to be sold in the same class as Armada Megatron. But they were the same class.

Basically all I'm saying is you can't judge by price, packageing, or even really compair just 2 figures and call it a day. You have to look at the entire class and figure out what is roughly a match for it.

Spychangers, Mini-cons, and Legends all seem to have basic transformations, articulation, detail (paint and molding), and are all roughly the same size.

Basics, Scouts, and Activators are the next up from them which are noticeably larger and more detailed but the articulation is not much better. This class allso has a few Automorphs in it. Activators I assume by the name are entirely automorphs. I don't think there are any Automorph scouts but the BW basics useually had gimics to flip up the tail and they would automorph.

Deluxe Class... which BTW Lockdown is tall in Robot mode but that's due to his transformation. The vehicle mode fits in perfectly with other Deluxe class figures and he is packaged in Vehicle mode. They could package him in robot mode and sell him in a different class but it seems like only Leaders or larger figures ever get packaged in robot mode in Animated anyway, there's a couple Voyagers in ROTF in robot mode.

Mega which is the next size up is roughly the same size as Voyager. The Packageing for Voyager figures is even the same size as Armada Predacon with the exception of Burning Fallen who is in different packageing than the normal Fallen figure.

Human Alliance and Alternators I'm not sure because they're rather smallish though more articulate and detailed. By actual size I would think they fit in better with Voyagers but on terms of articulation and detail they fit in better with Leaders

The next up from there is Ultra or Leader class which has gotten bigger over time. Like I said before the first Utras in Beast Wars were smaller than the TM Ultras but the TM Ultras seem roughly the same size as a Leader. I think my Primes seem smaller than Movie Prime but taken into account that Movie Prime has no trailer and non of my other Primes are combined with trailers right now they are roughly the same size.

Then there's Supreme which is rather heavy as well as large. Roll out Optimus Prime I think is actully a Supreme though he's actully smaller than my other Supremes. He's too big to be in the same class as Leader Animated though, not even the same packageing.

And then there's G1 cityformers who seem to dwarf even the supremes.

It allso seems to be really difficult to figure out the true class for anyone with a trailer when they're packaged in vehicle mode because they end up in different packageing than the rest of their class in the same line just to make room for the trailer. Like what the heck is G1 Rodimus? He's like a Deluxe but with the trailer it's more like a Mega. I don't know what to call him.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:

Overcracker wrote:Also minicons are hard to gauge the cost of since they are almost never packaged alone. Last time we saw minicons was in the Classics in 3 packs.

The Classics Mini-cons were sold as Legends Maybe the movie legends figures are bigger but Mini-cons have been sold as Legends.

Sorry, but Overcracker is 100% correct. There are absolutley no Minicons that have been sold at a "Legends" price point. Legends are larger (maybe 20-30% more mass). Minicons explicitly have a powerlinx port (round hole with a central peg).

I know because I own them all.

Not talking about "price point" as Mini-cons are never even sold individually. They have however been labled as legends figures.

Armada Predacon is about 1/3 less mass than the rest of the Aramda toy line in the same class so mass does not mean much.

Everyone knows about Mini-con ports and take a look at some of the Cybertron and Universe legends. They have Mini-con ports, not all of them, but some of them are Mini-cons. Non of the other toy lines have Mini-cons in the legends line, just the 2.

Rial Vestro wrote:

Razorclaw0000 wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:

Overcracker wrote:Also minicons are hard to gauge the cost of since they are almost never packaged alone. Last time we saw minicons was in the Classics in 3 packs.

The Classics Mini-cons were sold as Legends Maybe the movie legends figures are bigger but Mini-cons have been sold as Legends.

Sorry, but Overcracker is 100% correct. There are absolutley no Minicons that have been sold at a "Legends" price point. Legends are larger (maybe 20-30% more mass). Minicons explicitly have a powerlinx port (round hole with a central peg).

I know because I own them all.

Not talking about "price point" as Mini-cons are never even sold individually. They have however been labled as legends figures.

Armada Predacon is about 1/3 less mass than the rest of the Aramda toy line in the same class so mass does not mean much.

Everyone knows about Mini-con ports and take a look at some of the Cybertron and Universe legends. They have Mini-con ports, not all of them, but some of them are Mini-cons. Non of the other toy lines have Mini-cons in the legends line, just the 2.

The term "Price point" is just the industry term for "Size Class".

Absolutely NO MINICONS were sold as a Legend. The typical minicon is approx 2", the typical Legends is approx. 3".

G1 did not have size classes. The Deluxe Autobots (Whirl and Roadbuster) were not called that because of size but because they were "special" compared to the Autobot Cars because they were a mailaway product.

Now, since EVERYONE is saying that Minicons were never sold as Legends, the burden of proof is on you. Show us any packaging, any at all, where a minicon was sold as a Legend.

I don't think G1 Whirl and Roadbuster were mail-away figures. Mini-cons are sold individually I just saw some at Big Lots and Family Dollar.

Rial Vestro wrote:Have you noticed that size chart has Legends listed as 2 different classes and Mini-cons listed with Basics. There's allso 2 different basic classes.

Because it notes what size classes were sold at which prices (on average, everywhere's different, really) but if you'll notice it does list every size class available during each series, multiple prices or not, which I thought was the original purpose of this thread.

Rial Vestro wrote:There's a "Super" class listed which never even exsisted.

Optimal Optimus, RiD Prime, RiD Magnus... I'd say it existed.

Anyway, I posted that link originally to help you put names to all the size classes, as a way of assisting.

- Sam

Rial Vestro wrote:The Classics Mini-cons were sold as Legends Maybe the movie legends figures are bigger but Mini-cons have been sold as Legends.

Really which ones, show us which minicons where passed off as legends? Cause as far as i can remember, the movie legends have always been movie molds.

The first movie used Scout class figures from other lines for the store exclusives in 2008. But the legends where all movie molds.

Rial Vestro wrote:Both Mini-cons and Legends appear to have basic transformations and articulation. It's preddy rare to find figures in this class with decent articulation.

There I agree,

I thought he came as a Voyager and a Deluxe? Which class was relised first because I never saw any later relises of the Energon Megatron figures, includeing repaints. Whatever one came out first is most likely the one I have.

That was Optimus Prime. The Deluxe version came in the 2-pack wiith Megs which was a voyager sized Megs .


Leader Class Energon Megs is substantially larger:

What about the G1 cities? I think they're too big to be considered Supreme and nothing sence then has been that big.

Metroplex and his repaints would be Supreme, Fort Max and his repaints are in a class of their own as someone said, at almost 2 feet tall.

I was going to defend my statements about minicons/legends and ultra/leader class but everyone else has done it for me!

El Duque wrote:I don't think G1 Whirl and Roadbuster were mail-away figures. Mini-cons are sold individually I just saw some at Big Lots and Family Dollar.

Stores like Big Lots and "Family Dollar?" (I assume you ment Dollar Tree) have been known to sell knock offs. Especially if you saw them recently sence the only Transformers on the shelfs right now (at least in my area) are Animated and ROTF which don't have Mini-cons.

Samsonator wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:There's a "Super" class listed which never even exsisted.

Optimal Optimus, RiD Prime, RiD Magnus... I'd say it existed.

Optimal Optimus was an Ultra. And the Super classes listed were for the Beast Era (and by beast rea I mean Wars and Machines. RID Isn't actully part of the Best era though it does have Predacons.)

Rial Vestro wrote:

El Duque wrote:I don't think G1 Whirl and Roadbuster were mail-away figures. Mini-cons are sold individually I just saw some at Big Lots and Family Dollar.

Stores like Big Lots and "Family Dollar?" (I assume you ment Dollar Tree) have been known to sell knock offs. Especially if you saw them recently sence the only Transformers on the shelfs right now (at least in my area) are Animated and ROTF which don't have Mini-cons.

Family Dollar is another "discount store" there is also Dollar General, neither of which sell everything for a dollar, but, they currently have the single packed mini-con repaints, these single pack minicons also showed up at Christmas Tree shops.

They may or may not say "legends" on the package, but they are being sold at the Legends price in some cases, so I can see where some of the confusion could be coming from.

Overcracker wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:The Classics Mini-cons were sold as Legends Maybe the movie legends figures are bigger but Mini-cons have been sold as Legends.

Really which ones, show us which minicons where passed off as legends? Cause as far as i can remember, the movie legends have always been movie molds.

The first movie used Scout class figures from other lines for the store exclusives in 2008. But the legends where all movie molds.

You obviously did not understand a word I just said because your responce is the exact oppiste of what I said.

I said CLASSICS Mini-cons were sold as Legends. I never said a damn thing about Movie Legends being Mini-cons. The only thing I said about movie Legends was that they might be bigger than the Classics Legends figures.

I thought he came as a Voyager and a Deluxe? Which class was relised first because I never saw any later relises of the Energon Megatron figures, includeing repaints. Whatever one came out first is most likely the one I have.

That was Optimus Prime. The Deluxe version came in the 2-pack wiith Megs which was a voyager sized Megs .

If the Deluxe Optimus came in a 2 pack with Megatron why didn't they make Megs a Deluxe to make them more in scale? That's really the only reason I thought Megatron had a Deluxe so that he had a figure in scale with the Deluxe Optimus but oh well.

Rial Vestro wrote:

Overcracker wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:The Classics Mini-cons were sold as Legends Maybe the movie legends figures are bigger but Mini-cons have been sold as Legends.

Really which ones, show us which minicons where passed off as legends? Cause as far as i can remember, the movie legends have always been movie molds.

The first movie used Scout class figures from other lines for the store exclusives in 2008. But the legends where all movie molds.

You obviously did not understand a word I just said because your responce is the exact oppiste of what I said.

I said CLASSICS Mini-cons were sold as Legends. I never said a damn thing about Movie Legends being Mini-cons. The only thing I said about movie Legends was that they might be bigger than the Classics Legends figures.

No. They. Were. Not. Show proof on the package. I have seen the Classics Mini-Cons at Big Lots, but they do not have "Legends" anywhere on them.

"I Think what we have here, is a failure to communicate...'

We've all been saying tha they were not sold as legends, and you keep saying they were. But I just realized that maybe what you mean is they were 'priced' as Legends, about $7 bucks or so, not being passed of as Legends.

Here's a pic of 3 sets of the classics Minicon Packs that were sold. Nowhere does it say they are legends. They may be priced as legends, but that's because there are 3 figures in each pack.



Legends are sold in single packs. One figure per card. How are they the same?

The only time I can recall seeing the minicons sold in single figure cards was when they came with the small tin boxes to put them in. Tiny Tins I think they where called.

To be fair, there are minicons (specifically a subset of the K-Mart 12 pack) that were repackaged as single carded figures (in vehicle mode) and sold for around $4 at places like Big Lots. However, they're clearly marked "Minicon class" and nowhere do they say "Legend".

Rial Vestro wrote:

El Duque wrote:I don't think G1 Whirl and Roadbuster were mail-away figures. Mini-cons are sold individually I just saw some at Big Lots and Family Dollar.

Stores like Big Lots and "Family Dollar?" (I assume you ment Dollar Tree) have been known to sell knock offs. Especially if you saw them recently sence the only Transformers on the shelfs right now (at least in my area) are Animated and ROTF which don't have Mini-cons.

No, I meant Family Dollar, it's a discount store in my region of the country. I'm well aware that most discount stores sell KO's, but they also some official products. I just saw the Classics Deluxe Prime vs. Megatron at Dollar General under the Universe line for $10.00. The single carded mini-cons in question were official product, hell I'm pretty sure they were front page news when they first came out.

edit: here's the link to the news story, http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... ots/15159/

Rial Vestro wrote:

Samsonator wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:There's a "Super" class listed which never even exsisted.

Optimal Optimus, RiD Prime, RiD Magnus... I'd say it existed.

Optimal Optimus was an Ultra. And the Super classes listed were for the Beast Era (and by beast rea I mean Wars and Machines. RID Isn't actully part of the Best era though it does have Predacons.)

Actually, RiD did have Super class listed. Also look at Optimal Optimus, both in packaging and figure size. Compare him then to Tigerhawk, and TM2 Megatron (both Ultras from the same line at around the same time). Physically he's bigger, he has electronics, and his packaging was much bigger, too. Clearly a different size class.