The Energon Pub

Uh, there's plenty in canon. Beginnning with the fact they're machines. We've also never heard Transformers mention anything about growing up. All you're doing is using THEORY. You don't use FACT. And you're also being a hypocrit. First you claim "Duh, they have to have 5ex0rs, not only because i want Airazor's babies, but because they're lifeforms, and science states they must!" Now logical science shows that growth within machines is impossible, and now YOU'RE the one playing the alien card! Make your bloody mind up! Seriously, this is why no-one buys into any of your so-called "Theories". They're not factual, and you can't seem to make your mind up one way or the other.

Damolisher wrote:You can't have theories for things that aren't possible. That's like trying to prove R Kelly likes legal women.

actyally you can, thats how science works, i states a theory, and then sets out to prove or disprove it!

Hmm..let me add something to this before it gets locked and we can't add to it anymore.

I think Tfs can molt, but it could be the same way an insect molts. Insects have hard restrictive carapaces, and in order for them to continue growing, they must shed these periodically. When it comes time for the insect to molt, its body begins to get signals to start producing a new shell under the old one. When this old shell is finally cast, the new shell will have a chance to grow and expand, and the insect will get bigger because of the expanding shell. It only does this a limited number of times, and does it no longer when its adult form and size is reached. The grown Tf probably only molts a couple of times, and then stops when its full grown.

I think Tfs do eat other things other than energon, as you can see in G1 and the other shows and comics. I have heard that Optimus Primal in Beast Wars will pick and eat bananas, Tfs in G1 will consume oil (and probably alien foodstuffs too) and in BattleStars, Super Megatron and his goons will eat humans if given an oppurtunity.
I think Tfs thought that they could only consume energon because that is what the Quintessons gave them, plus I imagine the Quints used it as a form of control. If you make your "products" dependant on a single source of food, it becomes that much easier to control them. They would have to come to you to get their food, and for this reason they don't dare turn against you because you make their food, and without it they would starve. I know Tfs have developed ways to make their own energon, but maybe for a while they couldn't. Plus for a bunch of them, maybe their systems are atrophied because they ONLY consume energon, and so now thats all they can eat.

Damolisher, Tramp,

SHUT THE F%*K UP!!!
I don't want to see this thread locked, so can you two at least be civil, please?

Zombie Starscream wrote:Hmm..let me add something to this before it gets locked and we can't add to it anymore.

I think Tfs can molt, but it could be the same way an insect molts. Insects have hard restrictive carapaces, and in order for them to continue growing, they must shed these periodically. When it comes time for the insect to molt, its body begins to get signals to start producing a new shell under the old one. When this old shell is finally cast, the new shell will have a chance to grow and expand, and the insect will get bigger because of the expanding shell. It only does this a limited number of times, and does it no longer when its adult form and size is reached. The grown Tf probably only molts a couple of times, and then stops when its full grown.

I think Tfs do eat other things other than energon, as you can see in G1 and the other shows and comics. I have heard that Optimus Primal in Beast Wars will pick and eat bananas, Tfs in G1 will consume oil (and probably alien foodstuffs too) and in BattleStars, Super Megatron and his goons will eat humans if given an oppurtunity.
I think Tfs thought that they could only consume energon because that is what the Quintessons gave them, plus I imagine the Quints used it as a form of control. If you make your "products" dependant on a single source of food, it becomes that much easier to control them. They would have to come to you to get their food, and for this reason they don't dare turn against you because you make their food, and without it they would starve. I know Tfs have developed ways to make their own energon, but maybe for a while they couldn't. Plus for a bunch of them, maybe their systems are atrophied because they ONLY consume energon, and so now thats all they can eat.

All very good points. If any of the written material is anything to go by, then I believe we can say that there was no atrophying of their systems. I believe most people think that TFs only consume energon and nothing else because that is their primary food source and that is what the fiction focuses on, even though we have a number of examples of TFs who definately consume other substances, in a number of these examples—the Sharkticons, Hungurr, Skullcruncher—its other robotic life forms they're consuming, including other Transformers.

I second what Whiner said! Would you two kindly be civil! It's starting to hurt my optics reading all the shouting between you two. I swear you guys go at it more then a married couple!

Zombie Starscream, The eating thing is true. But I don't recall the G1 characters ever eating. Beastwars only had them eating in beast mode. I think that they have to use that mode to process the food. (Which brings up a question about weather or not the animal shells have interal organs?)

The Molting I don't see happening as it appears to only happen under certain circumstances.

Yeah, specifically to insects and reptiles. It doesn't happen with metal. And Whiner-tron, if you don't like it, once again, hit the bloody exit button. Instead of your rude ways of telling us to stop arguing, how about actually contributing to the discussion.

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, specifically to insects and reptiles. It doesn't happen with metal. And Whiner-tron, if you don't like it, once again, hit the bloody exit button. Instead of your rude ways of telling us to stop arguing, how about actually contributing to the discussion.

I had been until you and Tramp took the thread over with your non-stop arguing.

Night Striker wrote:I second what Whiner said! Would you two kindly be civil! It's starting to hurt my optics reading all the shouting between you two. I swear you guys go at it more then a married couple!

Zombie Starscream, The eating thing is true. But I don't recall the G1 characters ever eating. Beastwars only had them eating in beast mode. I think that they have to use that mode to process the food. (Which brings up a question about weather or not the animal shells have interal organs?)

The Molting I don't see happening as it appears to only happen under certain circumstances.

The Sharkticons (and their ilk), Hungurr, and Skull Cruncher all eat solid foods, usually other Transformers, and the G1 transformers often consume oil and such. This happens in both the cartoon and comics.

As for molting, I only suggested it because their "skin" is hard armor plate, which could restrict growth thus requiring molting of the old armor in order for growth to take place. The precident we have for this is the Movie Guide, where they molt in order to revert to a native "protoform" state to travel between planets. Personally, I would say they simply grow as they age and their armor grows with them, and possibly reformatting at certain ages.

But WHY would they grow? Wouldn't it be easier to have them born into a matcher body and develop mentaly?

Whiner-tron wrote:

Damolisher wrote:Yeah, specifically to insects and reptiles. It doesn't happen with metal. And Whiner-tron, if you don't like it, once again, hit the bloody exit button. Instead of your rude ways of telling us to stop arguing, how about actually contributing to the discussion.

I had been until you and Tramp took the thread over with your non-stop arguing.

Well don't blame me! I was siding with you and an infinite number of others who realise how stupid Tramp's "Growth" thing is. He's the one who won't listen to reason.
Oh,and Tramp, they may eat them, but they don't need to. Cheetor specifically states in Beast Machines: "We only consume Energon. PERIOD."

I still dont understand how they would grow!

Whiner-tron wrote:But WHY would they grow? Wouldn't it be easier to have them born into a matcher body and develop mentaly?

You mean a mature body?

As for why, the reason is simple. If a TF child is born from the union of two parents, and grows within its mother, or even from an egg pod produced from within the mother, it will be very small. There is simply not enough room within the female's abdominal cavity, and as has been stated before, their abdominal cavity cannot stretch to accomidate a very large child. Thus, by necessity, any child born would need to be tiny, and grow rapidly the first few months at least. We also know for certain that actual child-bodied Transformers exist because we have solid endence of them. Not only Wheelie, but also the children of the Dino Force and the Lithonian children. These were all small children in children's bodies. Obviously, they won't remain small and child-like in appearance, Thus, they would need to be able to physically grow to adulthood. The real question is how long does this take? The only time a newly "born" Transformer should emerge in an "adult" form is if they are born from a protoform, and not parents.

Egg Pod. Pfft, why the hell would a MACHINE grow from an "Egg pod."? Metal and computer chips can't grow.

Tangent wrote:I still dont understand how they would grow!

The simplest method would be through the replication of the nanomachines which make up their bodies, just as our growth is through the replication and addition of cells. Thus, it is their nonomachine "regenrerative circuitry" which should facilitate growth just as it maintains homoeostasis and healing.

NANOTECHNOLOGY DOES REPAIRS ONLY! What part of that is so bloody hard to understand? And for the last time, STOP TRYING TO LIKEN MACHINES TO HUMANS! They are nothing like us!

But what about things like kogs and mechanical parts, which need to be a precise certain size to work properly? I dont mean to seem rude or anything, I just wonder. I guess things like computor chips could add things to themselves or replecate...

Damolisher wrote:NANOTECHNOLOGY DOES REPAIRS ONLY! What part of that is so bloody hard to understand? And for the last time, STOP TRYING TO LIKEN MACHINES TO HUMANS! They are nothing like us!

The creators of the series, and the writers have likened TFs to humans already. This was done in the cartoons, comics, and the Jananese series as well. Secondly, I said should. We are discussing theory here. I do not want to argue with you any more on this, so, please, let's agree to disagree.

Tangent wrote:But what about things like kogs and mechanical parts, which need to be a precise certain size to work properly? I dont mean to seem rude or anything, I just wonder. I guess things like computor chips could add things to themselves or replecate...

If they're formed from self-replicating nanites, then yes, they would be able to. This is how TFs heal after all. And as form the cogs and such, since they too are composed of even smaller "machines" then their growth would be proportional in order to maintain those tolerances.

The only reason you're backing out is because I'm giving more logical reasoning to why Robots wouldn't grow than you are for why they would. OK, clearly, you don't understand what METAL is. Because you keep likening healing technology to human hormones, you liken metal to skin, and you liken computer circuits to bones and organs. Why would Transformers grow when they don't have to? They're machines. They're not organic creatures. Only organic creatures grow. Transformers don't go through puberty. There is no childhood. There's no sudden metallic hairs in places there were none before. There are no robo-STDs. There is no Transformers high school. They are simply advanced machinery that can Transform, and think and feel. That's all there is to it, and that's what we're told. I for one, am happy with that.

There is nothing in Transformers canon which mentions growing of new computer chips. They don't come out of nowhere, they don't develop, and the nanomachinery is simply an anti-virus. That's all, Tramp. Stop trying to alter the meaning of things to suit your crazy bastardised human-ifying of Transformers. And as for that crack about creators, yes, they humanise Transformers in ways that are actually possible, like personalities.

Eh, guess this WAS kinda baiting. More of a flippant remark, but oh well.

Is that not baiting?

Damolisher wrote:The only reason you're backing out is because I'm giving more logical reasoning to why Robots wouldn't grow than you are for why they would. OK, clearly, you don't understand what METAL is. Because you keep likening healing technology to human hormones, you liken metal to skin, and you liken computer circuits to bones and organs. Why would Transformers grow when they don't have to? They're machines. They're not organic creatures. Only organic creatures grow. Transformers don't go through puberty. There is no childhood. There's no sudden metallic hairs in places there were none before. There are no robo-STDs. There is no Transformers high school. They are simply advanced machinery that can Transform, and think and feel. That's all there is to it, and that's what we're told. I for one, am happy with that.

There is nothing in Transformers canon which mentions growing of new computer chips. They don't come out of nowhere, they don't develop, and the nanomachinery is simply an anti-virus. That's all, Tramp. Stop trying to alter the meaning of things to suit your crazy bastardised human-ifying of Transformers. And as for that crack about creators, yes, they humanise Transformers in ways that are actually possible, like personalities.

It's not camparing healing technology to human hormones. It's comparing the nanomachine regenerative circuitry to organic cells. A self-replicating nanomachine is analogous to an organic cell. Their base components are simply different. Organic cells are carbon based, self-replicating nanomachines are silicon and metal based. Both contain a genetic code, both self-replicate, thus facilitiating healing and homeostasis in the larger organism. Secondly, the regenerative systems in a Transformer are not an "anti-virus" system. Anti-virus systems in a computer don't heal physical damage. They kill viruses that screw-up software causing computer crashes. The regenerative systems of a Transformer heal physical damage. They do this by self-replication to fill in the damaged areas and close off the wounds. This is exactly how organic tissue heals as well. Thus, there is a direct correlation between them—there is a direct parallel and comparison. The function is identical. Thus, the regenerative systems of a Transformer should conceivably facilitate growth from childhood to adulthood in those born from parents.

Whiner-tron wrote:
Damolisher wrote:
Yeah, specifically to insects and reptiles. It doesn't happen with metal. And Whiner-tron, if you don't like it, once again, hit the bloody exit button. Instead of your rude ways of telling us to stop arguing, how about actually contributing to the discussion.


I had been until you and Tramp took the thread over with your non-stop arguing.


Well don't blame me! I was siding with you and an infinite number of others who realise how stupid Tramp's "Growth" thing is. He's the one who won't listen to reason.
Oh,and Tramp, they may eat them, but they don't need to. Cheetor specifically states in Beast Machines: "We only consume Energon. PERIOD."

Oh for crying eye! Look Damolisher, is it that hard to say...walk away. Why must you seemingly reply to everything Tramp says. As you told Whiner-Tron, if you don't like what you read, exit! And the only reason he's backing out is becuase he's probably tired of hearing you scream the same thing over and over. Yes we know they're antropamorhized machines that act like humans. But that also means we can discuss matters of various theory about them, and if you honestly don't like it, then don't reply. Then again, you are the type of person that values YOUR own opinion over others. Both of you get out of the sandbox if you can't play together nicely.

Tramp, yes they consume food, but in limited quanties. Sharkticons and Hun-Grrr were both not the first form of Transformers. Sharkticons, we don't really know where they come from or how they were built. The molting in the movieverse is used so that they travel in space so they can convert to as small a form as possible for the least amount of damage. To be quiet frank I find it very very odd that they even do that. You can't exactly navigate in that form. Not to mention the level of damage the body would take in space.

Tangent very good point about the cogs and chips. No I don't think Nanites could be used to build the chips becuase they would need to be exact.

I repeat the same things because I have to. He doesn't seem to get simple concepts like certain things only applying to certain continuities, and that Transformers are simply advanced machines. They can't grow, no matter how much Tramp wants them to and that's what everyone is trying to point out to him. And in your case, Night Striker, they only eat because they choose to. As Cheetor said in Beast Machines (Once again repeating myself because it doesn't get through) that energon is the only thing Transformers need to eat or drink. Period.