The Energon Pub

Bumblevivisector wrote:Yeah, if Takara had put more thought into different limbs and configurations bestowing different powers on each gestalt back in the day, all the limb-swapping in the Scramble City OVA and G1 manga would've been more interesting and less pointless, at the cost of being more jarring whenever it intersected with any western TF fiction that would've still ignored the whole concept.

But alas, no one had the time, it was a mad...scramble...to get the corresponding toys and fiction out at all.

They did eventually do that for Battle Gaia and Guard City in Operation Combination.

Sabrblade wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I do like your idea though of each component bringing with it an upgrade. Sounds very mini-con/ Japanese G1 ish.

Kinda came up with it this morning, it's a neat idea to justify 2 different types of Menasor designs and honestly makes me happier about this skeletal frame combiner with cars slapped on it. Adds extra layers to it that helps me enjoy it a lot more, both as a good toy and also with a fictional background to it

Drag Strip: Speed boost
Dead End: Endurance boost
Breakdown: Physical strength boost
Wildrider: Fireblast boost

I'm guessing this is based on OG tech specs?

I prefer a different approach, almost like super power. Like Dragstrip with the speed boost works for a sprinting combiner, and I just like the idea of Wildrider being a total berserker, so he adds a sort of frenzy attack.

I might incorporate more of the multiverse into Dead End and Breakdown. Maybe Breakdown provides the strength boost you mentioned, but it's more a super slammer uppercut, and maybe he wields the trailer as a giant hammer. Dead End would lean more Cyberverse, so maybe he would give the combiner a sneakier stealth mode (he wasn't stealthy in the show per se, but he was able to help hide as part of the resistance and was good with the hit and run tactics), while also adding some personality snark to Menasor.

Cyberverse Dead End is my favorite, made me love the character and finally gave me a reason to like a Stunticon, though RiD2015 did give me some love to Dragstrip and Motormaster.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I do like your idea though of each component bringing with it an upgrade. Sounds very mini-con/ Japanese G1 ish.

Kinda came up with it this morning, it's a neat idea to justify 2 different types of Menasor designs and honestly makes me happier about this skeletal frame combiner with cars slapped on it. Adds extra layers to it that helps me enjoy it a lot more, both as a good toy and also with a fictional background to it

Drag Strip: Speed boost
Dead End: Endurance boost
Breakdown: Physical strength boost
Wildrider: Fireblast boost

I'm guessing this is based on OG tech specs?

No. Not that I'm opposed to the idea presented.

I prefer a different approach, almost like super power. Like Dragstrip with the speed boost works for a sprinting combiner, and I just like the idea of Wildrider being a total berserker, so he adds a sort of frenzy attack.

I might incorporate more of the multiverse into Dead End and Breakdown. Maybe Breakdown provides the strength boost you mentioned, but it's more a super slammer uppercut, and maybe he wields the trailer as a giant hammer. Dead End would lean more Cyberverse, so maybe he would give the combiner a sneakier stealth mode (he wasn't stealthy in the show per se, but he was able to help hide as part of the resistance and was good with the hit and run tactics), while also adding some personality snark to Menasor.

Cyberverse Dead End is my favorite, made me love the character and finally gave me a reason to like a Stunticon, though RiD2015 did give me some love to Dragstrip and Motormaster.

Interesting, but I think I'll come up with yet another take.

sol magnus wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:I prefer a different approach, almost like super power. Like Dragstrip with the speed boost works for a sprinting combiner, and I just like the idea of Wildrider being a total berserker, so he adds a sort of frenzy attack.

I might incorporate more of the multiverse into Dead End and Breakdown. Maybe Breakdown provides the strength boost you mentioned, but it's more a super slammer uppercut, and maybe he wields the trailer as a giant hammer. Dead End would lean more Cyberverse, so maybe he would give the combiner a sneakier stealth mode (he wasn't stealthy in the show per se, but he was able to help hide as part of the resistance and was good with the hit and run tactics), while also adding some personality snark to Menasor.

Cyberverse Dead End is my favorite, made me love the character and finally gave me a reason to like a Stunticon, though RiD2015 did give me some love to Dragstrip and Motormaster.

Interesting, but I think I'll come up with yet another take.

By all means, please share. I am enjoying these "powerup" combinations for the team

Sabrblade wrote:

Bumblevivisector wrote:Yeah, if Takara had put more thought into different limbs and configurations bestowing different powers on each gestalt back in the day, all the limb-swapping in the Scramble City OVA and G1 manga would've been more interesting and less pointless, at the cost of being more jarring whenever it intersected with any western TF fiction that would've still ignored the whole concept.

But alas, no one had the time, it was a mad...scramble...to get the corresponding toys and fiction out at all.

They did eventually do that for Battle Gaia and Guard City in Operations Combination.

"Eventually" =/= "During Scramble City in '86", so Battle Gaia, Guard City, and Baldigus will always be outliers in that regard. Therefore, any official attempt to retcon a power-configuration concept into gestalts from that era is unlikely to supersede Bob Budianski's original bios emphasizing non-interchageability when it came to combining their components' minds, no matter how much fun it is to swap our toys' limbs around. Cherry-pick whatever stats you like from the Stunticons' tech specs, configuring their personalities will still give Menasor severe mental problems, and it's those character quirks that endeared them to the hearts of Transfandom.

Bumblevivisector wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Bumblevivisector wrote:Yeah, if Takara had put more thought into different limbs and configurations bestowing different powers on each gestalt back in the day, all the limb-swapping in the Scramble City OVA and G1 manga would've been more interesting and less pointless, at the cost of being more jarring whenever it intersected with any western TF fiction that would've still ignored the whole concept.

But alas, no one had the time, it was a mad...scramble...to get the corresponding toys and fiction out at all.

They did eventually do that for Battle Gaia and Guard City in Operations Combination.

"Eventually" =/= "During Scramble City in '86", so Battle Gaia, Guard City, and Baldigus will always be outliers in that regard. Therefore, any official attempt to retcon a power-configuration concept into gestalts from that era is unlikely to supersede Bob Budianski's original bios emphasizing non-interchageability when it came to combining their components' minds, no matter how much fun it is to swap our toys' limbs around. Cherry-pick whatever stats you like from the Stunticons' tech specs, configuring their personalities will still give Menasor severe mental problems, and it's those character quirks that endeared them to the hearts of Transfandom.

THIS.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Drag Strip: Speed boost
Dead End: Endurance boost
Breakdown: Physical strength boost
Wildrider: Fireblast boost

I'm guessing this is based on OG tech specs?

No, just on their names and altmodes.

Drag Strip is a race car, so speed makes sense.

Dead End has "dead" in his name, and endurance helps one avoid their own death.

For Breakdown, it takes an amount of force or "strength" to "break" something.

And for Wildrider, one such as he would go "wild" with firepower.

You know, the more I see comparison pics between the two, the more I realize that Legacy and Cybertron Override weirdly work as an example of sexual dimorphism. Taking that Nitro Convoy in Galaxy Force was male with the toy designed to look male, while the Legacy Override is specifically designed to be the character Override from the Cybertron version of the cartoon, it could be assumed that they're the male and female version of their species. That is of course implying that there's an entire species of Transformers who exclusively look like Override/Nitro Prime, but why not? There are seekers afterall.

To be clear, I'm not trying to crap on anyone's ideas for gestalt power configurations, I'm just pointing out that the reason this concept still hasn't been implemented across even Scramble-style combiners in general is that someone would have to put a LOT of thought into it to square it with what's already been established about TF gestalts, and to incorporate future teams that might use the CW system.

Note that Menasor gives wiggle-room for stat-inspired power configurations because none of the Decepticon gestalts in the Sunbow cartoon had a real explicit unique power (despite Soundwave's assertion that he had "special powers" in 'Masquerade'). All 3 of Hasbro's Autobot gestalts, on the other hand, did:

SUPERION: Flight (wouldn't be a "special" power for a Sunbow 'Con, but still)
DEFENSOR: Force Field
COMPUTRON: Analytical Abilities

Now, attach 4 bots from the same team to G1 Metroplex in bot mode using the toys's connectors, and the corresponding power-ups seem obvious (or at least, this is how I interpreted them as a kid): Aerialbots let him fly, Protectobots give him a force-field tailored to Autobot City, and Technobots allow Computron's analytical abilities to access Teletraan 2's database. Fans may never agree on the effect exactly (or care, since that toy configuration is tough to translate into fiction due to scale issues), but start switching the limb-bots around or swapping between teams, and what happens to the gestalts' established powers? Anyone would have to make a LOT of s#!t up to answer that, and even then it'd be partly dumb luck if enough fans accepted it for the system to stick in our collective consciousness past the next few reboots.

Titanmasters might provide an even better example of what I mean. Someone at Hasbro came up with a lot of neat powers for them to bestow on the stats of whoever they headed onto, all fun and good for personal play, but will that mean much of anything even if Legacy has a few figures return to the Headmaster gimmick? And what does that mean for all the characters used in TR who went back to not being Headmasters afterwards? Did any of that translate into fiction? And to the few who played the TR expansion in the TF CCG game before its unfortunate demise, how well did it square with the rest of the game?

Point is, lots of fans have wanted a gestalt-configuration power system over the decades, but even for fandom to come up with a large scale one that stands the test of time, it would take a LOT of us overthinking and playing around with it, then creating some fanfic or game that conveyed it to other fans for the system to actually mean anything, AND it would have to not be too at odds with prior TF mythos. If HasTak tried it officially, they'd just cast it aside after 3 years, tops. Heck, it took several years of 3rd party gestalts screaming at Hasbro in $700+ voices before they even did new official versions of them in Combiner Wars.

But if anyone wants to prove me wrong and show it can be done, I'd love to hear more. TF fiction never settled on consistent rules for gestalt endurance, what it takes to knock them apart, etc. (except for Bruticus's three dots, I guess), so there always will be enough official wiggle room. I just don't see it happening in a meaningful way for established TF combiners. Newer teams that want to try something similar, like the elemental powers of the female 'Cons that form Megatronia (still no actual team name for them?) giving her the ability to slice planets in half, sure, keep that coming! But do different limb configurations for Megatronia mean much of anything? Will they ever? Outside of every fan's personal headcanon, not likely.

Sorry that turned into a rant, but I just wanted to be clear that I'm not down on the concept, I just think there isn't a scraplet's chance in the Arctic Ocean of it actually working. Given this unique take on Menasor, I'm mostly curious to see how Legacy will handle its next gestalt team.

Bumblevivisector wrote:To be clear, I'm not trying to crap on anyone's ideas for gestalt power configurations, I'm just pointing out that the reason this concept still hasn't been implemented across even Scramble-style combiners in general is that someone would have to put a LOT of thought into it to square it with what's already been established about TF gestalts, and to incorporate future teams that might use the CW system.

Note that Menasor gives wiggle-room for stat-inspired power configurations because none of the Decepticon gestalts in the Sunbow cartoon had a real explicit unique power (despite Soundwave's assertion that he had "special powers" in 'Masquerade'). All 3 of Hasbro's Autobot gestalts, on the other hand, did:

SUPERION: Flight (wouldn't be a "special" power for a Sunbow 'Con, but still)
DEFENSOR: Force Field
COMPUTRON: Analytical Abilities

Now, attach 4 bots from the same team to G1 Metroplex in bot mode using the toys's connectors, and the corresponding power-ups seem obvious (or at least, this is how I interpreted them as a kid): Aerialbots let him fly, Protectobots give him a force-field tailored to Autobot City, and Technobots allow Computron's analytical abilities to access Teletraan 2's database. Fans may never agree on the effect exactly (or care, since that toy configuration is tough to translate into fiction due to scale issues), but start switching the limb-bots around or swapping between teams, and what happens to the gestalts' established powers? Anyone would have to make a LOT of s#!t up to answer that, and even then it'd be partly dumb luck if enough fans accepted it for the system to stick in our collective consciousness past the next few reboots.

Titanmasters might provide an even better example of what I mean. Someone at Hasbro came up with a lot of neat powers for them to bestow on the stats of whoever they headed onto, all fun and good for personal play, but will that mean much of anything even if Legacy has a few figures return to the Headmaster gimmick? And what does that mean for all the characters used in TR who went back to not being Headmasters afterwards? Did any of that translate into fiction? And to the few who played the TR expansion in the TF CCG game before its unfortunate demise, how well did it square with the rest of the game?

Point is, lots of fans have wanted a gestalt-configuration power system over the decades, but even for fandom to come up with a large scale one that stands the test of time, it would take a LOT of us overthinking and playing around with it, then creating some fanfic or game that conveyed it to other fans for the system to actually mean anything, AND it would have to not be too at odds with prior TF mythos. If HasTak tried it officially, they'd just cast it aside after 3 years, tops. Heck, it took several years of 3rd party gestalts screaming at Hasbro in $700+ voices before they even did new official versions of them in Combiner Wars.

But if anyone wants to prove me wrong and show it can be done, I'd love to hear more. TF fiction never settled on consistent rules for gestalt endurance, what it takes to knock them apart, etc. (except for Bruticus's three dots, I guess), so there always will be enough official wiggle room. I just don't see it happening in a meaningful way for established TF combiners. Newer teams that want to try something similar, like the elemental powers of the female 'Cons that form Megatronia (still no actual team name for them?) giving her the ability to slice planets in half, sure, keep that coming! But do different limb configurations for Megatronia mean much of anything? Will they ever? Outside of every fan's personal headcanon, not likely.

Sorry that turned into a rant, but I just wanted to be clear that I'm not down on the concept, I just think there isn't a scraplet's chance in the Arctic Ocean of it actually working. Given this unique take on Menasor, I'm mostly curious to see how Legacy will handle its next gestalt team.

I think Menasaor would be fine if the stunticon twins attached to the front of the legs. But with the underside facing front, so It is animation accurate. Id also like the arms to attach more combiner wars style, but that is optional and I am okay without it. Just glad I decided not to have a Menasor or Superion in my collection. The legacy is almost perfect. But the legs are wrong. They are not cartoon accurate, no matter how anyone tries to convince me. The G1 Toy did the legs exactly how they are supposed to be (but its fine if the motor master trailer legs cover the back)

In essence, something like this

Surprisingly today i was able to spot x4 Titan Class Legacy Cybertron Universe Metroplex at a local Target. Took the dive and bought one. Thought i would share some photo comparisons with his original counterpart from the Unicron Trilogy line in all three modes. Of course it would have been cool if the Legacy version would have came with the mini con Drill Bit or even had the battle axe gimmick but hey, its all good.

Enjoy,

SGM


EDIT: Just wanted to add another photo; showing the playability of Legacy Metroplex. I have added Siege Rung and Kingdom Eject manning some weapons on top. In addition, added ER Sheeldron to the right side with Siege Countdown. Pretty cool you have some options while in this mode.

SGM

Didn't a Voltron series have something like that? They were able to switch what lion was the one making the torso and the result was a different set of powers.

First-Aid wrote:Didn't a Voltron series have something like that? They were able to switch what lion was the one making the torso and the result was a different set of powers.

Yep. Voltron Force. The one that aired on Nickelodeon and is the least-liked Voltron series. The toyline never even saw release.

I cant wait to get Metroplex!! I remember as a kid seeing him in one of those big fold map/toy list things that came with the Cybertron toys and wanting him like nobodys business

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:Didn't a Voltron series have something like that? They were able to switch what lion was the one making the torso and the result was a different set of powers.

Yep. Voltron Force. The one that aired on Nickelodeon and is the least-liked Voltron series. The toyline never even saw release.

It's free to watch on Tubi if anyone is so inclined .

Also while "3rd Dimension" has a lot of nostalgia for several of the OG voice actors returning, and attempting to be a continuation;that CG is rough... especially compared with what Mainframe was doing at the same time. It probably gives "Force" a run for worst Voltron series.

Anyway. I'm not sure how that could be pulled off practically. ( Have a 5 member combiner that could all be the Torso, an arm, or a leg) I'm sure a design wizard at TT could probably come up with something, but it would be a challenge.

Sabrblade wrote:

First-Aid wrote:Didn't a Voltron series have something like that? They were able to switch what lion was the one making the torso and the result was a different set of powers.

Yep. Voltron Force. The one that aired on Nickelodeon and is the least-liked Voltron series. The toyline never even saw release.

Funny enough, I am one of the relatively few who did like it, that was my introduction to Voltron. Though Legendary Defender is by far my favorite. And i didn't even know Voltron Force had a toyline conceived.

Messed around with Leadfoot and Masterdominus some more last night, and even took the chance to attempt a Fossilizer-combiner. Also decided to do a movie homage pairing picture (which will be how they are on the shelf too) with Hound and Leadfoot.

And finally, yes Rodimus Prime I am eating my words again, but I am willing to say Metroplex is going to be figure of the year. He is just so damn cool and no matter what I do with him, I keep liking him more and making him look even cooler.

Just learned you can use the welding helmet as a Battle Mask for Warrior Engineer Mode

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Just learned you can use the welding helmet as a Battle Mask for Warrior Engineer Mode

Enjoy!

Speaking of Metroplex, TFSource has him on sale this weekend for $159.99, 40 bucks off (or 20% off) for their Labor Day Weekend sale.

Sabrblade wrote:Speaking of Metroplex, TFSource has him on sale this weekend for $159.99, 40 bucks off (or 20% off) for their Labor Day Weekend sale.

When it's literally 40 bucks, I would say that it is finally worth it...

primalxconvoy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Speaking of Metroplex, TFSource has him on sale this weekend for $159.99, 40 bucks off (or 20% off) for their Labor Day Weekend sale.

When it's literally 40 bucks, I would say that it is finally worth it...

Not even close. This is by far the best titan we have gotten in every way: weight, strength, posing, joint quality, plastic quality, presence.

This is worth that TFsource sale price at the very least, and I would argue it holds up under the new titan pricing system. $40 is an insult to it, the Sparkdrinker alone is almost worth that.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Speaking of Metroplex, TFSource has him on sale this weekend for $159.99, 40 bucks off (or 20% off) for their Labor Day Weekend sale.

When it's literally 40 bucks, I would say that it is finally worth it...

Not even close. This is by far the best titan we have gotten in every way: weight, strength, posing, joint quality, plastic quality, presence.

This is worth that TFsource sale price at the very least, and I would argue it holds up under the new titan pricing system. $40 is an insult to it, the Sparkdrinker alone is almost worth that.

IMO Legacy Metroplex is not worth that newly increased price. He's sure is impressive but you have to pose him just right so he don't comes crashing down. Also, I just can't figure out how to make him hold his gigantic weapon effectively. Finally, those transformation joints in his shoulders are annoying when posing his arms.

Despite these flaws, he's indeed glorious. So despite "not being worth" full price or the future inflated secondary market price, he's definitely worth it when he's on sale. Like 15% off or over. Just enough to save taxes and shipping. That's what I paid at my local geek store.

Now, to be truly satisfied with him, I need Legacy Deluxe Drillbit to happen. He needs it to feel complete.

On a side note, the Titans who are worth their full price or even more are Siege Omega Supreme, ER Scorponok, and L Select Black Zarak.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Speaking of Metroplex, TFSource has him on sale this weekend for $159.99, 40 bucks off (or 20% off) for their Labor Day Weekend sale.

When it's literally 40 bucks, I would say that it is finally worth it...

Not even close. This is by far the best titan we have gotten in every way: weight, strength, posing, joint quality, plastic quality, presence.

This is worth that TFsource sale price at the very least, and I would argue it holds up under the new titan pricing system. $40 is an insult to it, the Sparkdrinker alone is almost worth that.

IMO Legacy Metroplex is not worth that newly increased price. He's sure is impressive but you have to pose him just right so he don't comes crashing down. Also, I just can't figure out how to make him hold his gigantic weapon effectively. Finally, those transformation joints in his shoulders are annoying when posing his arms.

Despite these flaws, he's indeed glorious. So despite "not being worth" full price or the future inflated secondary market price, he's definitely worth it when he's on sale. Like 15% off or over. Just enough to save taxes and shipping. That's what I paid at my local geek store.

Now, to be truly satisfied with him, I need Legacy Deluxe Drillbit to happen. He needs it to feel complete.

On a side note, the Titans who are worth their full price or even more are Siege Omega Supreme, ER Scorponok, and L Select Black Zarak.

"You have to pose him just right" is hardly an issue, any figure has to be "posed right" to stay standing, and with his back and forward ankles, side to side ratchets in the ankles, and the tilts, he is far more capable of holding a pose than most titans.

His weapon handle can be difficult, i will concede that, but there is also a lot you can do with it, especially since the handles move and you can get some good grasping poses.

I've only had issues with the transformation shoulder joints in work mode, they hold fast in main robot mode.

All things considered, I would definitely say he is worth the full price. He can move better than any titan, he can stand better than any of them, he can emote better, and he can convincingly triple change better than any of them.

As for titans worth their price, for me, Devastator, Trypticon, and Omega Supreme are the ones worth their asking price. Metroplex and Iaconus have very strong spots in my heart, but I do know they are not quite as good as they could be for the price. Fort Max and Predaking both needed more, they just were very lacking in several areas. And Scorponok and Black Zarak were just boring, like, I transformed each once and haven't touched them again, they just do nothing for me as toys.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Speaking of Metroplex, TFSource has him on sale this weekend for $159.99, 40 bucks off (or 20% off) for their Labor Day Weekend sale.

When it's literally 40 bucks, I would say that it is finally worth it...

Not even close. This is by far the best titan we have gotten in every way: weight, strength, posing, joint quality, plastic quality, presence.

This is worth that TFsource sale price at the very least, and I would argue it holds up under the new titan pricing system. $40 is an insult to it, the Sparkdrinker alone is almost worth that.

Lol, nope. Not by a long shot. IMO, it's the complete and utter opposite. Still, regardless of its poor design, if it makes you happy, have at it.

primalxconvoy wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Speaking of Metroplex, TFSource has him on sale this weekend for $159.99, 40 bucks off (or 20% off) for their Labor Day Weekend sale.

When it's literally 40 bucks, I would say that it is finally worth it...

Not even close. This is by far the best titan we have gotten in every way: weight, strength, posing, joint quality, plastic quality, presence.

This is worth that TFsource sale price at the very least, and I would argue it holds up under the new titan pricing system. $40 is an insult to it, the Sparkdrinker alone is almost worth that.

Lol, nope. Not by a long shot. IMO, it's the complete and utter opposite. Still, regardless of its poor design, if it makes you happy, have at it.

Have you even handled him? I feel like if you had, even for you, you wouldn't say $40 price tag.

This also coming from the guy posting $60 upgrade kits for a $90 figure that don't make it worth $150 by any remote chance. I feel like, especially having interacted with you over a good long period, your bias really does tell with the official vs 3P/KO market. Saying this thing is the equivalent of an iron factory legends figure is not remotely comparable.