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Convoy wrote:I'm pretty darn unfamiliar with the DJD. I had to look them up the other day after seeing that comic cover with them on it. They just look really cool.
I saw, in this preview, a symbiotic relationship between the DJD and Nickel. Not unlike the mighty rhino and those cute birds that perch on thier back eating parasites. Or those cute little fish that keep the ferocious shark clean. The DJD wasn't being cute. They're just sitting there allowing their symbiotic partner to help keep them the fantastic killing machines they are.
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Eat my ass funpub.
Burn wrote:And this is for taking Nemesis Maximo seriously.
*high fives Silly in the face*
carytheone wrote:I can't be assed to do any better right now.
Nemesis Maximo wrote:![]()
An interesting point indeed, Convoy.
Convoy wrote:Nemesis Maximo wrote:![]()
An interesting point indeed, Convoy.
Thanks for taking me to the top of the next page.
I feel as though some are reading far too into this in the wrong direction.
I, for one, am happy to see a fembot who isn't portrayed as the slim/busty/sexy archetype.
Now I know what ScottyP was talking about in the Twincast thread. And now I feel kinda stupid for suggeting more than half that stuff. If Scotty can get into the Japanese animated series maybe I can get back into the comics.
Is there a TPB anyone might suggest starring the DJD available?
Sagitta wrote:Meh. More willing to wait than to jump to conclusions. Makes perfect sense the DJD has some kind of doctor given Tarn's cog addiction.
As for Nickel...I ask what's the more troubling? That the DJD have a medic? Or that the medic overlooks the fact that they're brutal, sadistic psychopaths and supports as well as condones them within their trade by keeping them up and running? Should she be placed in a "cute" light if even by appearance thatle makes all the more troubling for the character. But then, one can only glean so much by just a few pages of a preview.
On another matter, now that the DJD are back...I can't help but wonder who in the heck the undercover Autobot agent is within that merry little band spoken of waaay back in "Last Stand of the Wreckers". Or has that cover been blown already?
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:Sagitta wrote:Meh. More willing to wait than to jump to conclusions. Makes perfect sense the DJD has some kind of doctor given Tarn's cog addiction.
As for Nickel...I ask what's the more troubling? That the DJD have a medic? Or that the medic overlooks the fact that they're brutal, sadistic psychopaths and supports as well as condones them within their trade by keeping them up and running? Should she be placed in a "cute" light if even by appearance thatle makes all the more troubling for the character. But then, one can only glean so much by just a few pages of a preview.
On another matter, now that the DJD are back...I can't help but wonder who in the heck the undercover Autobot agent is within that merry little band spoken of waaay back in "Last Stand of the Wreckers". Or has that cover been blown already?
It's totally Nickel think about it, it all makes sense!![]()
I don't really see or understand why we're already judging an entire issue's quality or a character just from the preview pages?
These are five pages, how does this ruin the DJD? We keep demanding more realistic and deeper characters, and not that long ago we've had people complaining about the DJD just being one dimensional horrors, suddenly they're ruined because they're not?
I mean look at history, the closest comparison we can draw between the DJD and the real world in a way most people understand it are the Gestapo from Nazi Germany. They were the bogymen that scared the sh*t out of all of the German military and population at the time, everyone saw them as inhumane monsters, but guess what they had private lives and people that cared for them. F**k, the concentration camp I visited was run buy a guy who personally bashed the heads of Jewish babies in during the day and then went home and hugged his own children and played with them as if he worked at a toy store.
What's scarier, murder machines that do nothing but slaughter, or murder machines that after they've done their work are annoyed that their caretaker and medic scolds them and that they have feelings like everyone else?
And fan girls will make cute drawings of the most disgusting and violent characters and garnish them with hearts even if there aren't any official "cute" moments. I'm pretty sure you can even find drawing a fangirl made where she or her self insert character is having a sweet moment of tenderness with Unicron because "they can totally change" him.
I also don't really see why Nickel is sexist? So she's the medic and bosses them around, sure you can see that as an extreme mother caricature, but thing is I thought this was another "guy" TF until Tarn said she. Most characters I've seen like her are guy characters. And lets not forget, we've seen like two pages of her now. For all we know there is more to her than scolding the DJD and fixing them up.
As for catering to tumblr, I hate that too, it's what ruined The Legend of Korra, and the rest of the Avatar universe going forward.
I think they're more based on the Spanish Inquisition. Tarn appears to be a play on the first Grand Inquisitor Torquemada, pronounced 'talk-'em-'arder, especially with his ability to literally 'talk' people to death. Definitely undertones of both though.Dead Metal wrote:I mean look at history, the closest comparison we can draw between the DJD and the real world in a way most people understand it are the Gestapo from Nazi Germany.
Honest opinion? The former. Dedicated and fanatic zealots that cannot be reasoned with, cannot be distracted, cannot be dissuaded from their goal; an enemy that you have to kill to stop it as they are relentless, and with the story centred around an autobot ship full of pacifists and dreamers, a single-minded DJD really were that much worse.Dead Metal wrote:What's scarier, murder machines that do nothing but slaughter, or murder machines that after they've done their work are annoyed that their caretaker and medic scolds them and that they have feelings like everyone else?
Dead Metal wrote:And fan girls will make cute drawings of the most disgusting and violent characters and garnish them with hearts even if there aren't any official "cute" moments. I'm pretty sure you can even find drawing a fangirl made where she or her self insert character is having a sweet moment of tenderness with Unicron because "they can totally change" him.
I also don't really see why Nickel is sexist? So she's the medic and bosses them around, sure you can see that as an extreme mother caricature, but thing is I thought this was another "guy" TF until Tarn said she. Most characters I've seen like her are guy characters. And lets not forget, we've seen like two pages of her now. For all we know there is more to her than scolding the DJD and fixing them up.
As for catering to tumblr, I hate that too, it's what ruined The Legend of Korra, and the rest of the Avatar universe going forward.
Burn wrote:P.S.
**** you CF.
Psychout wrote:I think they're more based on the Spanish Inquisition. Tarn appears to be a play on the first Grand Inquisitor Torquemada, pronounced 'talk-'em-'arder, especially with his ability to literally 'talk' people to death. Definitely undertones of both though.Dead Metal wrote:I mean look at history, the closest comparison we can draw between the DJD and the real world in a way most people understand it are the Gestapo from Nazi Germany.
Psychout wrote:Honest opinion? The former. Dedicated and fanatic zealots that cannot be reasoned with, cannot be distracted, cannot be dissuaded from their goal; an enemy that you have to kill to stop it as they are relentless, and with the story centred around an autobot ship full of pacifists and dreamers, a single-minded DJD really were that much worse.Dead Metal wrote:What's scarier, murder machines that do nothing but slaughter, or murder machines that after they've done their work are annoyed that their caretaker and medic scolds them and that they have feelings like everyone else?
This just looks like a mom scolding kids for not doing their homework.
Psychout wrote:Maybe the extreme contrast will work, maybe its part of a bigger pay-off later in the book, but I can certainly understand the disappointment. The DJD had such 'bogeyman' potential, and this appears to show them as angsty teenagers more akin to Twilight than crusaders of Decepticon justice.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:Damn, never thought about the Spanish Inquisition, it makes so much more sense taking into account that they're pretty religious about Megatron and the Decepticon cause too. I was just so used to the Decepticons and badguys in general to be more Nazi based that I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!
Goddamn, now I can't help but picture Kaon turn into a comfy chair while Tarn demands cushions.
Dead Metal wrote:I think that someone who can murder so much and still manage to have a "normal" life because he doesn't see the horror he exacts on others as terrifying because he views the ones he inflicts them upon as little more than objects is scarier than something that knows it's bad but does it because it likes to.
Burn wrote:P.S.
**** you CF.
ctrlFrequency wrote:Dead Metal wrote:And fan girls will make cute drawings of the most disgusting and violent characters and garnish them with hearts even if there aren't any official "cute" moments. I'm pretty sure you can even find drawing a fangirl made where she or her self insert character is having a sweet moment of tenderness with Unicron because "they can totally change" him.
I also don't really see why Nickel is sexist? So she's the medic and bosses them around, sure you can see that as an extreme mother caricature, but thing is I thought this was another "guy" TF until Tarn said she. Most characters I've seen like her are guy characters. And lets not forget, we've seen like two pages of her now. For all we know there is more to her than scolding the DJD and fixing them up.
As for catering to tumblr, I hate that too, it's what ruined The Legend of Korra, and the rest of the Avatar universe going forward.
The cute Is already out there, I'm aware, I've seen it and it can't be unseen. But don't think they need catered to. the writing is top notch in the series, the entire series, both writers, so I hope that they can stand on the merits of excellent writing rather than how many Tumblr reblogs they can get.
As for the feminist issue, keep in mind not everything feminist is about sexism. Nickel is not a sexist character from what I saw... but she is a too narrow stereotype. (Can a woman be a medic without being a giggling nurse or a scolding mother?)
ctrlFrequency wrote:The issue is awfully complicated and quite frankly, on a board full of men, please forgive me, but I will not try to start a battle, but simply say feminism is much more than crying about sexist representations.
Optimizzy wrote:I see you're point and I agree with you in concept. But the idea of the doting caretaker is less impressive than that of a loving father. In your example it's far more horrendous that a father would murder babies than for murderous thugs to have a doting mother type...complaining about all the blood they get in their teeth. It's true we shouldn't judge, and this is like the ONLY thing Roberts has done that I wasnt completely happy with, but it's a mistake IMHO if it continues in this vein.
Having them come back from murdering someone and maybe gently feed their turbofoxes or pray and watch some mindless tv would be FAR more humanizing than having a "cute" decepticon give them the what for for getting blood on the carpet again.
Have them be shown as normal adults doing come home from doing horrible things...not children in need of a mother
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Psychout wrote:Dead Metal wrote:Damn, never thought about the Spanish Inquisition, it makes so much more sense taking into account that they're pretty religious about Megatron and the Decepticon cause too. I was just so used to the Decepticons and badguys in general to be more Nazi based that I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!
Goddamn, now I can't help but picture Kaon turn into a comfy chair while Tarn demands cushions.
Psychout wrote:Dead Metal wrote:I think that someone who can murder so much and still manage to have a "normal" life because he doesn't see the horror he exacts on others as terrifying because he views the ones he inflicts them upon as little more than objects is scarier than something that knows it's bad but does it because it likes to.
If it does go like that then I can see it working, but that wasn't the impression I got. We'll find out on Wednesday I guess.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Burn wrote:P.S.
**** you CF.
Va'al wrote:I'm tempted to post the review now, but what I want to say is that all of this talk is amazing.
It's great to see so many thoughts on something that isn't even out yet!
Burn wrote:P.S.
**** you CF.
ArmadaPrime wrote:Also, note the conspicuous lack of either Kaon or Vos in the pages we've seen, neither of them have even been mentioned, even when referring to Kaon's pet. Is there any particular indication that what we're currently seeing is at the 'current' mtmte time, or even that things within the DJD haven't just changed drastically from when we saw them last? I have honestly no idea how the issue will play out and where it will take us, and I kinda like that.
ctrlFrequency wrote:Va'al wrote:I'm tempted to post the review now, but what I want to say is that all of this talk is amazing.
It's great to see so many thoughts on something that isn't even out yet!
Keep resisting, Va'al. Psychout had to trick me into reading the preview (though I don't know if his intention was to trick me... might have been, who knows with that evil mind), I normally avoid, wait til the issue is out, then read these threads. So I can wait ;p
Va'al wrote:ctrlFrequency wrote:Va'al wrote:I'm tempted to post the review now, but what I want to say is that all of this talk is amazing.
It's great to see so many thoughts on something that isn't even out yet!
Keep resisting, Va'al. Psychout had to trick me into reading the preview (though I don't know if his intention was to trick me... might have been, who knows with that evil mind), I normally avoid, wait til the issue is out, then read these threads. So I can wait ;p
Oh, for sure. Reviews are for a Wednesday, that's my personal schedule.
And I need to finish the TvGIJoe one, anyway.
What I will say, however, is that a lot of the concerns raised so far are, in my opinion, addressed in the issue, one way or another. They may not satisfy all the people who have raised them, and they definitely do not provide answers (this is MTMTE), but they're addressed.
Burn wrote:P.S.
**** you CF.
ctrlFrequency wrote:Va'al's a tease (not a surprise)
ctrlFrequency wrote:Something I should probably point out....
Do I think that the DJD should be so 1 dimensional that all they do is kill, and that they're personalities stop there?
No.
Even the worst possible person you can imagine had something normal about them. Some sliver of humanity. It did not make them less a monster.
Do I think that part of the DJD needed to be revealed?
No. It demystifies them, makes them less scary because we know they aren't real, they're characters. The DJD isn't coming to my house to get me. Humanizing them makes them less scary.
ctrlFrequency wrote:When we don't have something cute to relate to the characters, it makes fiction more terrrifying.
To use Psychout's Twilight example, I remember a time when (before the stupid Interview With a Vampire movie) vampires were freaking scary. They have been humanized in fiction to the point where they are procreating with humans. Heavily romanticized, they'very lost their fangs and are wispy teenage idols. But 30 years ago, not so much.
Humanize fictional demons and they loose their power.
Optimizzy wrote:One thing that should be considered is the little description on the second page:
"Once they were the most feared of Megatron's soldiers, now..."
hmmmm.
RETURN OF THE D.J.D.! A punishment squad created by MEGATRON to hunt down dissidents, turncoats and cowards—no one believes more passionately in the DECEPTICON cause than the D.J.D. So what happens when they discover their founder has joined the Autobots? (Clue: it’s not pretty.)
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
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