The Energon Pub

[Sentinel_Primal]

I think I prefer Siege, mostly because of the alt modes and partially because I'm not a huge fan of the G1 toon aesthetic. I picked up most of Siege because they were cyber stylized and also good figures. Meanwhile with ER I'm only planning to pick up Snapdragon, Starscream, Doubledealer, an Alicon, Sunstreaker, Sky Lynx, Scorponok, all potential modulators, Micromasters, and Battlemasters, and assuming that HasTak do it, I'd even pick up a Paradron Medic from Arcee. It's still a lot, but I'm noticing that it's mostly characters that tend not to get made that often

[VioMeTriX]

No powermaster?

[Sentinel_Primal]

No powermaster?

Doubledealer's powermasters are being released in Generation SELECTS with Frenzy and Wingthing

[Rodimus Prime]

Back to Earthrise. If you want to discuss comic art styles, please do so in the comics forum.

Do you guys favor ER over Siege at all, or do you look at them the same way? I'm asking because the more I think about it the more I'm leaning toward ER, for the simple fact that they're giving us figures which already have representation in media, mainly the G1 cartoon. Siege figures are really good too, and I got most of the line, but honestly, besides Omega, Magnus and Shockwave, none of the figures appealed to me especially, because their appearances are different. I didn't realize this until recently, because I kept looking my Siege collection, and I felt something was off. Now I know. They're still great figures and I'm glad I got them, but I'm looking forward to ER much more.

Honestly? I see the trilogy as a single unit broken up for marketing purposes, and the G1 cartoon is a heavy influence on all parts. Every non-Micromaster SIEGE figure other than Cog, Brunt, Impactor, Skytread, Lionizer, Spinister, Galaxy Upgrade Optimus, and Barricade, is based on the G1 cartoon. That's why the Seekers have faux-parts F-15 ducts and cockpits despite turning into pyramid-like alien jets (which, I might add, originate from the G1 cartoon). That's why Soundwave still has tape player details and can be fanmoded into a roughly G1 transformation even w/o add-on panels. That's why Megatron has Walther P38 hammer halves on his shoulders. That's why Astrotrain's engine mode looks like a JNR D51 and his shuttle mode looks like a NASA shuttle. That's why to varying degrees (Voyager) Optimus Prime, Ratchet and Ironhide, Prowl, Mirage, and most blatantly Sideswipe turn into suspiciously Earthlike vehicles (the others can pass as Cybertronian, especially Optimus, but Sideswipe is blatantly an Earth car wearing "I'm totes an alien car UwU" stickers). Springer and Skyfire are how they looked in the cartoon (including Springer having a more distinct car mode thanks to the fenders moving past the hood), and Impactor matches the comics fairly well.

I look at the SIEGE versions of Optimus and the Seekers as WFC's equivalent of the Cybertron Mode figures from Animated - although the effect is lesser because of WFC duplicating the cartoon's "Alien altmode, Earth robot mode" thing.

With the exception of Megatron (for various reasons) and Arcee (Idiotic attempt to downscale the MP, instead of going with the proven techniques of the T30 toy), I'm largely looking forward to what Earthrise is adding: Optimus' Earth mode (complete with trailer, the Main 3 Seekers' Earth modes and the Coneheads, Scorponok, Grapple and Inferno, Astrotrain in a box stores will stock, Hoist and Trailbreaker, Cliffjumper (Quite distinct from Bumblebee, too), Snapdragon, Scorponok, Fast-Track, Sunstreaker, and so on... Quite a lot to enjoy, frankly.

Astrotrain doesn't look like a NASA shuttle. Not even close. But I guess it was the shuttle mode that suffered the most, when trying to cram 3 modes into such a small figure. Obviously the main objective was to get the robot mode right. Hasbro probably figured that by throwing in the unnecessary tender, they could smooth over the faults of the alt modes. And I guess in some cases it worked.

Also I disagree on Ironhide and Ratchet being anywhere near G1-accurate in either mode. That's why I said they're not represented accurately in previous media. The others, sure. Then I add the Datsun brothers and roughly half the figures from Siege are figures without previous screen-accurate representation.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

-snipped-

-snipped-

Astrotrain doesn't look like a NASA shuttle. Not even close.

...He has the nose of a NASA shuttle, the wings and tailfin of a NASA shuttle, the engines of a NASA shuttle, and - though it is marred by the train kibble and the gaps caused by his robot mode chestplate - the fuselage of a NASA shuttle. If you can call all of that "not even close" then I don't know what to say to you.

Also I disagree on Ironhide and Ratchet being anywhere near G1-accurate in either mode.

How? How do they not look G1-accurate in robot mode to you? Seriously, how?



Just look! Head: Check. Boxy arms with dark gray hands and shoulders: Check. Sloped, square chest: Check. Boxy legs with gray thighs: Check. Mostly-gray torso: Check. The crotch isn't as pronounced, but it's still roughly in the ballpark.


Ratchet's not as dead-on a match in terms of color layout (hands and crotch are white instead of red) but the shapes are all still correct.

Then I add the Datsun brothers

Who are decidedly closer to their G1 toy and cartoon design than the Universe mold was, especially in robot mode...

and roughly half the figures from Siege are figures without previous screen-accurate representation.

Mm-hm, suuuure.

Are they as cartoon-accurate as the MPs (especially the Roger Rabbit MPs)? No. But to say they're not remotely like the G1 cartoon designs is so off IMO that it's like saying the original Optimus Prime toy was chartreusse with pink and purple accents.

[Seibertron]

... and herein lies the problem Hasbro and Takara Tomy face with pleasing fans.

[Deadput]

:POPCORN:

... and herein lies the problem Hasbro and Takara Tomy face with pleasing fans.

Some people are pleased and others are not which is fine because there isn't a single thing in the universe that pleases everyone.

Me personally I'll take what I can get, I don't care about accuracy being spot on only if it's similar enough, like how Animated and Prime Ratchets have enough in common with G1 Ratchet to be alright stand ins.

Although it did help back when Hasbro offered one paint job while Takara offered another where there was some more levels of choice.

It is how it is though, don't like the direction a figure took? Well just gotta wait for the next time.

[Rodimus Prime]

It is how it is though, don't like the direction a figure took? Well just gotta wait for the next time.

Hence my post regarding the possible differences in style between Siege and Earthrise.

And I didn't say I had a problem with some of the Siege figures not being accurate. I just pointed out that they weren't.

[SpikeyTigertron]

My main issue with a lot of the Earthrise figures is that they're sporting Earth Modes when they haven't even arrived yet. Which I think is robbing a lot of us from more cybertronian modes to mesh with the Siege figures.


I think it's personally way to soon to crank out Starscream/Skywarp/Thundercracker again... and god help us if they start doing the other Seekers (besides the cone heads) in the new mold.


I'm on the fence with figures like Grapple at the moment. While he's a great figure (and with a bit of patience and a little tender loving- I don't see what issues people are having with the pegs behind the crane arm) I feel if he's supposed to be helping "build bases" and "fortifications" with the modulators (?) why he's got his earth mode already.


I'm also really conflicted with the new Smokescreen. I've always been a sucker for his earth-mode... but again... many of us just got his cybertronian mode along with the other "brothers".

I'm worried that all this quick turn-around while appeasing adult fans... may burn parents out. It'll be interesting to see now many "redos" are threaded in with the newer, wilder, releases (like Double Dealer etc).

I'm also curious if we'll be getting the micro master vehicle platforms like the tanker truck that splits open, or the missle carrier... maybe voyager modulators?

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

It is how it is though, don't like the direction a figure took? Well just gotta wait for the next time.

Hence my post regarding the possible differences in style between Siege and Earthrise.

And I didn't say I had a problem with some of the Siege figures not being accurate. I just pointed out that they weren't.

And I was pointing out that you were dead wrong about that re: their robot modes.

My main issue with a lot of the Earthrise figures is that they're sporting Earth Modes when they haven't even arrived yet. Which I think is robbing a lot of us from more cybertronian modes to mesh with the Siege figures.

The rest of us don't think like that because originally they arrived and got their Earth Modes in 1984. For some of us, that was years before we even started collecting or in fact were born. Also, since even SIEGE was going off the cartoon robot modes... doing Wheeljack and Bumblebee would have been a biiiit of a poser because those two cheat as badly as AoE Galvatron. Wheeljack goes from a tall, boxy car (possibly a hovercraft judging by the skirt) to a Lancia Stratos-based robot mode and Bumblebee goes from a stingray-esque groundcar to a VW Beetle-based robot mode.

I think it's personally way to soon to crank out Starscream/Skywarp/Thundercracker again...

Animated did Earth and Cybertron Mode figures of Optimus in the same year, and it was fine. Much like in that case, there's a very appreciable difference between them, at least in vehicle mode. I think they should have gone with Skywarp first rather than Starscream. Skywarp's SIEGE version wasn't still warming shelves, getting him first would ease the pain of missing the SIEGE version a bit, and it would have been fitting considering the cartoon. Redwing and the Rainmakers, I don't think we'll see re-dos of. Especially after the Rainmakers lingered long enough for a $30 markdown.

I'm on the fence with figures like Grapple at the moment. While he's a great figure (and with a bit of patience and a little tender loving- I don't see what issues people are having with the pegs behind the crane arm) I feel if he's supposed to be helping "build bases" and "fortifications" with the modulators (?) why he's got his earth mode already.

Because the toy bio fiction is off in its own world, as usual, and most of us don't give a crap. Except, perhaps, where I'd like to duct-tape whoever wrote Selects Hot Shot's bio to a chair and force them to watch "Revelation" and "Critical", and then rewrite the bio to not fail.

I'm also really conflicted with the new Smokescreen. I've always been a sucker for his earth-mode... but again... many of us just got his cybertronian mode along with the other "brothers".

But on the other hand, a lot of us didn't get Smokes and he's now hard to get. Also, Smokescreen remains the only confirmed re-do of the Datsuns. For all we know, it'll stay that way and the reuses of the mold will be different. Someone suggested they might use the mold for Jazz instead; it would need differently-transforming lower legs, but I can see it.

I'm worried that all this quick turn-around while appeasing adult fans... may burn parents out.

But there's a lot of new (to the trilogy) faces in with the re-dos. And of the re-dos, the Seekers are markedly different even to parent eyes (pyramid vs. decidedly more flat Earth jet), Optimus Prime has a freaking trailer base, Smokescreen is decidedly more accessible and on the radar... Megatron, on the other hand... Yeah parents aren't gonna be as impressed.

I'm also curious if we'll be getting the micro master vehicle platforms like the tanker truck that splits open, or the missle carrier... maybe voyager modulators?

The Micromaster vehicles probably depend on how well the Micromasters themselves sell.

[Deadput]

It is how it is though, don't like the direction a figure took? Well just gotta wait for the next time.

Hence my post regarding the possible differences in style between Siege and Earthrise.

And I didn't say I had a problem with some of the Siege figures not being accurate. I just pointed out that they weren't.

Sorry I was not trying to say that you did say that, what I said was a generalization in general about Earthrise/Siege vs G1,etc.

Your views are just as valid as anyone else's.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Here's an idea I meant to post about earlier but got distracted by other veins of discussion:

A G2 redeco of Starscream, sold as a set with a redeco of Bombshock to homage the tank soundbox that the original G2 Starscream came with. Maybe it could even be a bigger set, with G2 Ramjet and a different redeco of Bombshock to resemble his tank soundbox also included.

[Rodimus Prime]

No, I'm not 'dead wrong' about Ratchet and Ironhide. In their case, the sum of the parts doesn't equal the whole. Besides, I was stating my opinion, the way I look at the figures. Opinions aren't right or wrong. They're opinions, not facts. You see them differently, that's fine. As far as I'm concerned, they're off the mark.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

No, I'm not 'dead wrong' about Ratchet and Ironhide. In their case, the sum of the parts doesn't equal the whole.

From what I can tell, the whole doesn't equal the whole for you either here.

As far as I'm concerned, they're off the mark.

Fine. But what throws them off it for you, I have no idea. Frankly, if you find their robot modes off the mark of being G1-accurate even with as close as they are (and especially if you call them "not remotely accurate"), then I don't think any non-MP toy of Ratchet and Ironhide would satisfy you.

[Wolfman Jake]

Some people are pleased and others are not which is fine because there isn't a single thing in the universe that pleases everyone.

Bacon?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

My main issue with a lot of the Earthrise figures is that they're sporting Earth Modes when they haven't even arrived yet. Which I think is robbing a lot of us from more cybertronian modes to mesh with the Siege figures.

This. Right. Here.

I would've loved to keep up the Siege styled alts, especially seeing Cliffjumpers alt mode in Galaxies, I would have far preferred that alt mode to this one no matter how good the toy is (I'll find out soon).

I wish we could have kept going in that direction, it was a nice unity of futuristic "alien-esque" alt modes

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Some people are pleased and others are not which is fine because there isn't a single thing in the universe that pleases everyone.

Bacon?

Unfortunately for that answer (brilliant as it is, BTW), there are vegetarians, vegans, PETA, and people who actually eat healthy/anti-greasers

[triKlops]

No powermaster?

Doubledealer's powermasters are being released in Generation SELECTS with Frenzy and Wingthing

https://hasbropulse.com/collections/new ... nit-4-pack

[Wolfman Jake]

My main issue with a lot of the Earthrise figures is that they're sporting Earth Modes when they haven't even arrived yet. Which I think is robbing a lot of us from more cybertronian modes to mesh with the Siege figures.

This. Right. Here.

I would've loved to keep up the Siege styled alts, especially seeing Cliffjumpers alt mode in Galaxies, I would have far preferred that alt mode to this one no matter how good the toy is (I'll find out soon).

I wish we could have kept going in that direction, it was a nice unity of futuristic "alien-esque" alt modes

I said this earlier in the thread, but I just think of it like this: The Autobots and Decepticons were just so excited to get to Earth that they dressed for the occasion ahead of time.

Some people are pleased and others are not which is fine because there isn't a single thing in the universe that pleases everyone.

Bacon?

Unfortunately for that answer (brilliant as it is, BTW), there are vegetarians, vegans, PETA, and people who actually eat healthy/anti-greasers

*BAD JOKE WARNING*

Well, Deadput did say specifically pleasing people, so, you know...

*BAD JOKE END*

[Glarryg]

Woah, shots fired.

Personally, I'm a lot less invested in the narrative of all of this, since the Prime Wars trilogy story was so underwhelming to me. The toys are great, but the animated story felt really tacked-on and meandering. Shoehorning bits of it into IDW's comics was kind of sloppy, too. I frankly don't need this to be some sort of multi-media extravaganza in order to enjoy it.

Glarryg

[Tuned Agent]

From a collector's perspective, I view Siege and Earthrise as two parts of the same (very G1 cartoon-centric) whole. I prefer Siege, but that's simply because Siege had more figures that interested me than ER does. But since G1 cartoon-centric isn't really my thing, many of the figures just don't interest me like they do for much of the rest of the fandom.

From a more cynical perspective, however, I can't help but get the feeling that much of Siege was little more than what Hasbro did with Bumblebee in TLK's toyline, only to a much larger scale. Release a "lesser" version first, then release a "better" version later after everyone has bought the first one. This would explain the cybertronian alt modes, the battle damage, the heavy amounts of detailing (that some considered excessive) all as ways to make them "off" enough to get fans to buy the later redos. It's kinda tainted my view of Siege in hindsight, as it now just looks like a ploy to give fans what they thought they wanted, before ER gave them what they actually wanted all along, getting many to buy essentially the same thing twice. But that's all just my opinion.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

From a collector's perspective, I view Siege and Earthrise as two parts of the same (very G1 cartoon-centric) whole. I prefer Siege, but that's simply because Siege had more figures that interested me than ER does. But since G1 cartoon-centric isn't really my thing, many of the figures just don't interest me like they do for much of the rest of the fandom.

From a more cynical perspective, however, I can't help but get the feeling that much of Siege was little more than what Hasbro did with Bumblebee in TLK's toyline, only to a much larger scale. Release a "lesser" version first, then release a "better" version later after everyone has bought the first one.

Okay, first off, there's a qualifier on the TLK Bumblebee thing: The proper version obviously wasn't ready in time for the movie's release, but they couldn't very well not have a Bumblebee on the shelves when it came out. Would have been smarter to reuse the DotM mold rather than the AoE mold though.
Also, I really don't see the SIEGE versions as "lesser" versions - except for SELECTS Smokescreen. I see them as different versions. Heck, since ER Megs' spear looks clunky compared to the SIEGE version's sword, I'd actually call the SIEGE version of Megs the superior one.
If there's any figures I'd denounce as giving us the lesser version first compared to Earthrise, it's Power of the Primes Optimus and Starscream. They have some value (Orion Pax and the Matrix for Optimus, the combining and being a Voyager for Starscream), but...

This would explain the cybertronian alt modes, the battle damage, the heavy amounts of detailing (that some considered excessive) all as ways to make them "off" enough to get fans to buy the later redos.

You know what else explains that? Giving them Cybertronian-altmode toys of these characters that weren't the bloody Titanium Series. Making them different from the Power of the Primes versions that came the year before. Hasbro's marketing department having a hard time letting go of a line gimmick once it's in their heads.
Also, Mirage, the Datsuns, and especially Sideswipe turn into Earth Mode stand-in vehicles, and Ironhide and Ratchet can pass as Earthly in a pinch.

It's kinda tainted my view of Siege in hindsight, as it now just looks like a ploy to give fans what they thought they wanted, before ER gave them what they actually wanted all along, getting many to buy essentially the same thing twice. But that's all just my opinion.

It's not one I can agree with, considering what I said before as well as this:

Re-dos: Optimus, Starscream (and presumably the other Main 3 Seekers), Smokescreen (no sign of other Datsuns being re-done yet), Megatron.
New (for the trilogy): Wheeljack, Cliffjumper, Hoist, Trailbreaker, Grapple, Sunstreaker, Scorponok, Airwave, Fast-Track, Ironworks, Runamuck, Arcee, the Coneheads (we know they're coming thanks to Sky Lynx's box), Sky Lynx, Inferno (no actual picture yet but with Grapple existing...), Snapdragon, Quintesson, Allicon, Doubledealer.
Six re-dos to twenty-one new toys.

[Gauntlet101010]

From a more cynical perspective, however, I can't help but get the feeling that much of Siege was little more than what Hasbro did with Bumblebee in TLK's toyline, only to a much larger scale. Release a "lesser" version first, then release a "better" version later after everyone has bought the first one. This would explain the cybertronian alt modes, the battle damage, the heavy amounts of detailing (that some considered excessive) all as ways to make them "off" enough to get fans to buy the later redos. It's kinda tainted my view of Siege in hindsight, as it now just looks like a ploy to give fans what they thought they wanted, before ER gave them what they actually wanted all along, getting many to buy essentially the same thing twice. But that's all just my opinion.

This is how I feel about Siege when it comes to certain characters. I don't understand their perspective here.

OP and the Datsuns are my own beef with their marketing. All "good enough" Earth modes that a lot of people got them. Only to have what they really want showed so soon after. If I look back with hindsight, I don't get their strategy.

I really don't understand what the point of Siege Prime was. At least with Starscream it gives us the Tetrajets with G1 robot modes. Tetrajet Rainmakers make a lot of sense, even with ER. But Prime and others are just so Earth modey. When they planned on giving us Earth modes later on. Why not just ... not make those guys? Or make Prowl and co. more Cybertronian?

But, of all those guys, I only got Prime, Megatron, and Soundwave. And I really only feel dumb about getting Prime right now. If they make a new SW, I'll really regret that buy.

(And, to be clear, I'm including SW as a guy who was "good enough", but not exactly what I would want - a SW that turns into a microcassette recorder. For obvious reasons I didn't think we'd be getting that.)

[sol magnus]

My main issue with a lot of the Earthrise figures is that they're sporting Earth Modes when they haven't even arrived yet. Which I think is robbing a lot of us from more cybertronian modes to mesh with the Siege figures.

This. Right. Here.

I would've loved to keep up the Siege styled alts, especially seeing Cliffjumpers alt mode in Galaxies, I would have far preferred that alt mode to this one no matter how good the toy is (I'll find out soon).

I wish we could have kept going in that direction, it was a nice unity of futuristic "alien-esque" alt modes

I thought it was the story of the journey to Earth, which would include reaching Earth. On the sides of the boxes (if that's anything to go by) they all appear to be on Earth so far, except for Starscream - who's still in his Siege body.

It probably doesn't do anybody any good to be literal about it - if you want to do the journey part, use Siege figures. Plus at they're doing Arcee and Snapdragon, so they haven't completely abandoned Cybertron modes just yet.

[Sentinel_Primal]

I don't really view Siege Prime as useless because of ER Prime. They fill different roles. It's sort of like DOTM Prime vs 2007 Prime. DOTM Prime came with his trailer and accessories, whereas 2007 Prime came was the cheaper alternative, and filled the same role, just at a cheaper price point.

I personally don't feel the need for Prime to have his trailer as it doesn't play a role outside of "the G1 toy had one, the cartoon had it, therefore he needs it", but if it did a power armor thing like Magnus', or if it did something similar to Thunderclash's where it became a weapons platform with a massive gun, then I'd go for ER Prime. But as it stands, if you want a G1 styled Prime for a cheaper pricepoint, then Siege works well enough. If you want a G1 styled Prime, and are willing to pay a bit more for it to be more accurate, then Earthrise works well enough. They just fill different roles for different budgets