The Energon Pub

[o.supreme]

Except this is the original cartoon where Sparks were not created for cannon yet.

OK Laser Core, or whatever you want to call it. The point is, whatever the source of a Transformers life in OTF Animated Canon, Megatron's would be brought to an end by Optimus. I *would* think a chest shot that pierced him all the way through (Ratchet, Prowl etc...)would be as fatal as blowing his head clean off (Ironhide). After all these aren't Zombies were dealing with...

[ZeroWolf]

Let's now ponder where the rest of this will end up, there is several different scenarios that it could become.

That being said there is two things that will still happen.

-starscreams coronation. This is a setpoint in time apparently unless there a movie universe where megs had the sense to kill starscream before now.

-threat of the matrix. Unicron still wants that matrix gone, so he needs to get rid of prime this time, instead if just sending galvatron after ultra magnus

[dragons]

I pay good money to this made into animated movie

[o.supreme]

We will find out for sure next week. But there are many ways this could go:

1. Unicron could create his own new heralds in an attempt to destroy Optimus Prime and the Matrix.

2. Unicron "summons" Starscream in an attempt to do his bidding

-The point is, we are almost assured a *bad* ending. Optimus is injured and may not have the strength to use the Matrix against Unicron. A happy ending is ideal, but any time you disrupt the main time stream, for better or worse, its never a happy ending.

[Sabrblade]

For people complaining about Megatron missing, he's beaten to a pulp in that fight with Optimus, both are really.

True, but, as mentioned earlier, the injured Megatron is given the same chance to shoot Prime from the same close distance in the Marvel version and successfully makes his shot count.

This is what happens in that version immediately after Prime's line about "sterner stuff":



Megatron is down on one knee and is still able to hit Prime square in the chest.

[kurthy]

Maybe we should change the name of this to 'What if Seibertron never died?'

He is risen. He is risen, indeed.

[RodimusRex]

Let's now ponder where the rest of this will end up, there is several different scenarios that it could become.

That being said there is two things that will still happen.

-starscreams coronation. This is a setpoint in time apparently unless there a movie universe where megs had the sense to kill starscream before now.

-threat of the matrix. Unicron still wants that matrix gone, so he needs to get rid of prime this time, instead if just sending galvatron after ultra magnus

I've often wanted to see what a Unicron upgraded/reformatted Starscream would look like.

I can see a strong case to be made that Unicron would go to devour Cybertron in his quest for the Matrix, Starscream would beg for his life, and we'd get a Starscream herald of Unicron leading an army of sweeps in pursuit of the Autobots on Earth.

The temptation there would be to continue to play with Rodimus as the eventual chosen one after Optimus eventually falls... Or to kill off Rodimus completely. I think there's also bound to be a temptation to use the Quintessons and Junions in new ways.

I think my instinct would be to have "Galvascream" (Darkscream?) on one side (and, man, that seems like something we'd all want a toy of) and eventually have the Matrix get passed on, with or without Optimus eventually dying. I think I'd like to see Arcee, Kup, Grimlock, or Magnus get the Prime upgrade.

Arcee or Kup are the ones I'd find interesting because we don't expect it as much. But I really like the idea of a T-Rex with a trailer fused to its rear torso; that seems like a Transformers vs. G.I.Joe kind of concept and I think you have to maintain Grimlock as kind of dumb if you want to evoke the cartoon. Magnus Prime would be interesting to see mainly because it would be doubling down so heavily on the concept. Or, heck, go completely bonkers and have Wreck Gar become a Prime. There's a Fisher King vibe to be had there.

I think the really exciting potential of the toon universe and a what if of the movie (which you don't get as much from the IDW-verse) is the idea that characters go through certain TYPES or CATEGORIES of upgrade and in a "What If...?" story, you can have different characters get Unicron reformattings and a different character become a Matrix-boosted Prime.

Outside of the animated G1 continuity, you don't have nearly as much of that idea of "Unicron reformatting" or "Prime Upgrade" being a standard "magic transformation" that could be applied to different characters. That's the red meat in an alternate universe story like this.

[Ballistic90]

For those that find Optimus killing Megatron to be out of character, remember that Megatron had directly (or indirectly) killed Prowl, Brawn, Ironhide, Ratchet, Windcharger and Wheeljack hours prior to Optimus arriving. I mean, he even says "One shall stand, one shall fall." He intended to kill Megatron as soon as the fight began.

[Sabrblade]

"Dinobots, destroy Devastator!"

"Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost."

"One shall stand, one shall fall."

Prime seemed pretty intent on having some Decepticon casualties made that day, even if he himself failed to kill any of the Decepticons he mowed down and shot en route to his confrontation with Megatron.

At least here he expresses remorse for having to do what he must to stop Megatron in this comic ("Forgive me."). Movie Optimus as-seen-in-the-movies-themselves wouldn't have any such regrets.

[bluecatcinema]

This is what happens in that version immediately after Prime's line about "sterner stuff":



Megatron is down on one knee and is still able to hit Prime square in the chest.

That actually seems pretty cheap, like all Megatron needed to do to beat Optimus was pull off something sneaky like that.

[Ultra Markus]

wasn't the original plan to have optimus prime as powered convoy or similar to that but look more like optimus like instead of ultra magnus

[ScottyP]

wasn't the original plan to have optimus prime as powered convoy or similar to that but look more like optimus like instead of ultra magnus

No, not at all. The first colors of Ultra Magnus seen in preview materials and animations were closer to the Diaclone scheme, but it was not meant to be Optimus. Speculation since I couldn't source this as a "fact": color scheme was changed to make him more distinct from Optimus.

Dr. Va'al is handling the site's review for this book, but I'm working on a lengthy post where I outline the immense disappointment I have in this book. It's just so, so bad.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

wasn't the original plan to have optimus prime as powered convoy or similar to that but look more like optimus like instead of ultra magnus

No, not at all. The first colors of Ultra Magnus seen in preview materials and animations were closer to the Diaclone scheme, but it was not meant to be Optimus. Speculation since I couldn't source this as a "fact": color scheme was changed to make him more distinct from Optimus.

Dr. Va'al is handling the site's review for this book, but I'm working on a lengthy post where I outline the immense disappointment I have in this book. It's just so, so bad.

I will admit, it was nothing like I thought it was going to be

[Seibertron]

I was really looking forward to this book and even made a special trip today to the comic store to pick it up. Unfortunately, I was bummed after reading it.

The biggest things that irked me was how certain characters acted out of character ... particularly Ultra Magnus and Hot Rod. They weren't written as they had been characterized, and I didn't care for Springer saying "shut up" to Perceptor. While I liked Starscream getting an upgrade from Unicron, I thought it was silly that his name changed to Megascream. Overall, it seemed like someone's fan fiction somehow made it to printed form.

The artwork was pretty decent. It was better than I was expecting but there were some points where it seemed off.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I was reading the wiki and the way Magnus and some of the others were portrayed were along the lines of the original movie script IE Magnus and Hot Rod not getting along. Although the characterizations was weird at points

[ScottyP]

[Seibertron]

That was an awesome read and made me feel much better about my disappointments after reading the book. Great idea for a "what if" but ultimately it turned out to be a very poorly executed concept as a final product. Bummer ... here's hoping that they can learn from this!

Great article, Scott.

[ScottyP]

That was an awesome read and made me feel much better about my disappointments after reading the book. Great idea for a "what if" but ultimately it turned out to be a very poorly executed concept as a final product. Bummer ... here's hoping that they can learn from this!

Great article, Scott.

Thanks! I was worried I got carried away and no one would read all of it.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Interesting perspective, and well written too. I appreciate the read Scotty!

[Sabrblade]

I still kinda feel like I would like to see a version of the movie's story with Optimus not dying done in a way akin to what I wrote on Page 2 of this thread:

instead of Hot Rod jumping in to tackle Megatron before Megs could fire his gun at Prime, Hot Rod would jump in a second later than he did originally, allowing Megatron to shoot at Optimus, but with Hot Rod instead jumping into the line of fire and taking the shot meant for Prime.

Upon seeing Hot Rod take the shot and fall to the ground gravely injured, Prime would become enraged by Megatron and promptly beat him to a pulp, just as he did in the movie, leaving Megatron beaten and barely alive with Starscream ordering the Decepticons' retreat and Soundwave carrying away the fallen Megatron (who'd become Galvatron later).

Optimus would examine Hot Rod's unconscious body and swear to get him repaired, having been touched by Hot Rod's seemingly selfless act, never knowing the truth that Hot Rod wasn't really trying to take the shot meant for Prime, and instead had fumbled his attempt to tackle Megatron and be a hero, accidentally landing himself in the line of fire and thus feeling utter humiliation before blacking out.

The rest of the movie would play out with Optimus thinking highly of Hot Rod (after his being repaired), wanting to form a bond with the kid during the film's events (he'd go in the same shuttle as Hot Rod while Magnus would captain the other one), while Hot Rod would instead think of himself as having messed up his big hero moment like a fool, mistaking Optimus's being so nice to him as a way of teasing him for his fumble, and wanting nothing to do with Prime. The two would form a father-son type of bond that would eventually culminate in the two coming to terms with each other and Optimus personally passing the Matrix onto Hot Rod either during or following the film's climactic defeat of Unicron.

[RodimusRex]

I think this comic had its work cut out for it trying to adapt AND rewrite TF:TM in 35 pages. It was light fun; I'm not sure it was worth $5, especially as it felt more like an ad for the monthly than its own thing.

That, to me, is the difference between something like this and Transformers vs. G.I.Joe. TFvJoe was given a ton of room to take weird detours. This is basically limited to the confines of the movie and feels like a try-out project.

Full confession: I tried to pitch IDW on something similar to this when they took a packet from me. I had an elaborate idea for a twist involving TF:TM that was, ironically, halfway between this and the Shattered Glass "Another Light" club comic take on the movie. I can't remember if this was in the packet I actually sent in or not. The reality is, folks have similar ideas.

But my take was one where:

Optimus makes the more ruthless decision. He apologizes to Hot Rod (who's a hostage) and fires, killing Megatron and Hot Rod. The real divergence point we'd have here is not so much a specific moment so much as Optimus having a more ruthless character. If we had the space, I'd establish that this had to do with a very different encounter between Optimus, Dion, and Elita One with Megatron. But the divergence point would be that Optimus is not a very nice guy but more of a ruthless soldier, which I think is what some fans would like. And so he treats Hot Rod as a regrettable casualty but worth killing to take out Megatron.


With Megatron and Hot Rod dead, Starscream takes a dying Optimus. Starscream snags the Matrix and jettisons Optimus into space where Unicron reformats Optimus, Iron Hide, Wheeljack, and a few others into agents of evil, which works in part because this Optimus has a darker nature.

From there, the changes would get more chaotic since you have no obvious successor, Starscream with the Matrix, and Optimus killing his friends with gleeful Unicron-caused insanity, while a small voice in his head resists.

On the whole, I'd be looking at, ideally, a 3 to 4 part miniseries.

This comic was a solid effort for a one shot. I wasn't even bothered by Ultra Magnus or Hot Rod because I felt like a deliberate part of it was actively avoiding who they became later and amplifying the quirkiness of their first appearances.

But I'd have liked this better as a universe with its own chain of chaotic developments than a one shot, which felt to me like it was still chained at the hip to the movie. As a miniseries, maybe we could have had, say, Old Snake try to convert Megascream into a human or Devcon as a reluctant hero with a romance with Arcee. We might have had Nebulons resisting Unicron by fusing to Transformers in new ways.

As it stands, it felt like it was trying to hew awfully close to the movie, didn't have page space to deviate a whole lot, and felt like a lure to attract cartoon fans who don't read the monthly IDW stuff into reading it.

Also, the first few pages play this up as a tragedy but the body count isn't really any bigger than TFTM and the outcome is arguably better. I felt like the premise had an opportunity for chaotic twists that, outside of Megascream, the book didn't fully deliver on despite being well written and drawn. I would like this team to get a chance to do an alternate TF Universe where they have more space to flesh out ideas and a push to do more original concepts.

[Burn]

I agree with pretty much everything Ryan said, but as RodimusRex pointed out, it's biggest problem was trying to re-write the movie (which back in the day took four issues to tell) in 35 pages.

Characters were off. Story was rushed. Highlight was definitely upgraded Starscream (Megascream just doesn't work) and a toy like that would be impressive to have.

Otherwise ... after last weeks X-Files Deviation, this one tried to go too big and never made it.

[Microraptor]

Elegant, informative, unbiased, and superbly written. I kinda prefer you to Va'al!

[galvatron00]

Scotty P: Excellent write up. All of your points = win.

I read the comic yesterday morning, and I'm reading it again now. When I finished it yesterday I said aloud "that's it?!".

As others have pointed out, all previous renditions of TF:TM in comic form have taken more than one issue to convey the story. I understand they accelerated 20 minutes into the movie and started there, and then left out 10 minutes of reformatting/coronation and "Decepticons: to earth!", and maybe 10 minutes of back and forth between Junkion and Quintessa, but it was just weird to read and then be finished so quickly.

I agree with your statement that this brought G1 pre TF:TM back (even though notable characters still died).

I've also always referred to TF:TM as TF:TM, funny

I almost feel like I wasted my money. Almost

So yeah, great job Scotty P

[o.supreme]

I haven't purchased the book *yet*. Hopefully its waiting in my saver in my local shop. Anyway... I appreciate the well informed commentary, and the professionalism of the opinions. It will be a shame if the ball was dropped as hard as it was. however I would place the blame solely on the creative team, not the original source. Several other comic brands have shown for years that you can do some amazing "what if" stories.

I only take a couple of exceptions....

1. In TF:TM- Megatron did not defeat Optimus Prime, I've never viewed it that way. It was a draw. Optimus died, and Megatron clearly would have if not for Unicron's intervention.


2. I personally do not believe Optimus Prime had to die in order for the TF brand to movie on. I respect the TF:TM writers bold choice, as it is one of the movies greatest strengths, but it wasn't a necessity. I have never been one to promote myself, as I am no great writer. But still, as I have mentioned several times. I had the idea of an entire fan-fiction series of time & universe traveling bots' almost 20 years ago, and one of the main stories was basically about the "rift" caused if Optimus had survived that day. And I can't believe, of all the myriad of fans, I'm the only one who postulated this idea before now.

3. "G1 one has been here all along" well... it has and it hasn't... There have been several "re-releases" of the toys, TRUE reproductions, which are about as authentic as you can get. Then there was TF:Regeneration 1 -Furmans attempt to bring proper closure to the Marvel Comic series. --What IDW has been doing for the past decade or so however, has been inventing a *new* G1. Kind of like JJ Abrams Star Trek. The characters in most cases do *not* match ther personalities they were given in the original comic, or animated series, which brings me to my final point.

4. Of all the media outlets for the original Transformers- The one that strikes the greatest resonance with me is the original animated series. Now this is not a debate on the quality of the series. Sure it is flawed, and yes I put on my very thick nostalgia glasses when I watch it (I watched 3 or 4 episodes just 2 days ago). But there has never been a proper continuation of it. In *my* mind (and I know I am in the minority). I quickly adopted the Japanese G1 series as the continuation I never got back in 1987, and if that's all I ever get, then I'm ok with that. But I've seen so many fan projects, and ideas indicating that there is a sizable amount of the fan community that would love to see some honest to goodness continuation of the original Hasbro/Sunbow animated Original Transformners series. Whether it is the 20 year gap between S2 and TF:TM, or Post Rebirth, I think this subset of fans (myself being one of them) would love to see this. THIS is the thing we are asking for THIS is the thing we have not seen in nearly 30 years. And whether it happens in print, or animated form, we patiently await any prospects in the near future. All the "G1 esque" Comics, or video games (which Devastation has come the closest to), cannot completely fill that void, cannot provide 100% satisfaction. So until then, we will patiently sit back, and wait, and still ask for it to happen.